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Old 03-24-2006, 10:34 AM   #1
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Thumbs up TiVo Opportunity: The Changing Ad Landscape

TiVo Opportunity: The Changing Ad Landscape


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Originally Posted by Media Life
Upfront debate: Rethinking TV ratings

More buyers are looking to pay only for ads

By Kevin Downey
Mar 23, 2006

Each year going into the upfront TV ad selling season, buyers and sellers jockey for dominance in negotiations by arguing for whatever market condition or new wrinkle in ratings or audience measurement will give them an upper hand.

This year it's all about redefining rating points, and the argument is over time-shifted versus minute-by-minute ratings.

The networks led by embracing Nielsen Media Research’s new time-shifted ratings for digital video recorders, advancing the argument that advertisers should be paying an additional cost for audiences that record a show but watch it at a later time. Nielsen now provides data on programs recorded on DVRs and viewed up to seven days later, and this new data is raising network ratings.

Media buyers have responded with a big no, as in no way. They say they'll refuse to pay additionally for DVR audiences during upfront negotiations for next year's primetime shows.

For their part, buyers are favoring an entirely different notion, one that's a radical departure: paying only for the audience that actually watches commercials, based on new minute-by-minute ratings, not for those watching the programming airing between.

Nielsen began issuing minute-by-minute ratings in October, and the sense among buyers is that their eventual use will be raised during this upfront's negotiations but won't become a full-scale point of contention until next year.

That's in part because it will take some time to analyze all the new data and to reprogram agencies' computer systems. Too, there are as yet only relatively few subscribers.

When minute-by-minute ratings do become an issue, they stand to cost the networks plenty. Based on agencies’ initial analyses, these ratings are expected to result in commercial audiences that on average are 2 percent to 10 percent lower than program audiences and in some cases perhaps more than 25 percent lower.

Bruce Goerlich, executive vice president and director of strategic resources at ZenithOptimedia, explains succintly the two sides of the debate, time-shifted versus minute-by-minute.

"What the networks are saying is that television is changing and they should be credited for different venues and different times," says Goerlich.

"We want a scaleable metric that matches these changes in television. Minute-by-minute does that because what we’re looking at is people being exposed to our commercials wherever they are."

Tellingly, none of the broadcast networks have yet subscribed to minute-by-minute ratings. The only cable network to subscribe is the Weather Channel.

But several media buying agencies have signed on, and others are lining up to do so.

Starcom MediaVest Group began receiving minute-by-minute data in December for all its agencies, including Starcom, MediaVest, GM Planworks and Tapestry. And ZenithOptimedia and Saatchi signed on two weeks ago, according to Nielsen.

Lower ratings aren’t likely to be the networks’ only headache with minute-by-minute ratings.

Some agencies are expected to also negotiate prices based on where a commercial falls within a program, or within a commercial break. This is already done, but with the new data it will become dramatically fine-tuned.

John Spiropoulos, vice president and group research director at MediaVest, found in an initial analysis that viewers watch some commercial breaks far more than others.

"What we have learned, taking the Opening Ceremonies in the Olympics as an example, is that we can see where viewers are interested in the content of the program," he says. "What we saw is that people wanted to see the U.S. team enter the stadium. [For] the commercial that preceded that, there was limited tune out. After the U.S. team entered, [NBC] went back to commercials and viewing dropped off."

This type of finding will certainly be raised during upfront negotiations.

And they will take place, says Liz Janneman, senior vice president of cable advertising sales at the Weather Channel.

"At the end of the day an advertiser wants to make sure their commercials are being seen and then remembered," she says. "This data is now holding the community to a higher level of accountability. I think it’s the currency of the future."


+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++


Report: TV ads are fast losing their zip

On eve of upfront, marketers raise new beefs

By Heidi Dawley
Mar 23, 2006

After a flat broadcast upfront last year, the feeling has been that things would perk up this spring, with some media analysts forecasting a 3 percent bump in network ad spending.

But a new report, released just as the upfront season begins, suggests the broadcast networks could face a far tougher sell to the nation's advertisers, for this upfront and the next and the next.

Advertisers, it seems, are fast losing confidence in TV advertising. And the 30-second spot, long endangered, is suddenly looking even more endangered. That's according to a report from the Association of National Advertisers (ANA) and Forrester Research that was presented yesterday before the Association of National Advertisers TV Ad Forum.


A chief finding: Some 78 percent of advertisers feel that traditional TV advertising has become less effective over the last two years.


“Television networks continue to publish research that traditional TV advertising is potent as ever," writes Josh Bernoff, vice president of Forrester Research, in a release of the study's findings. "But national advertisers aren’t buying it and are seeking alternatives to enhance their budgets and move them beyond the customary 30-second spot.”


Less clear from the study is just how soon this dissatisfaction will express itself in upfront ad sales. Will it be this year, or next, or the year after? But the sense is sooner rather than later, certainly by 2007.


The report, which will be issued in full by Forrester in a few weeks, was based on a survey of 133 national advertisers representing some $20 billion worth of advertising. Charles Schwab, Johnson & Johnson, Mattel, Pfizer and Verizon, among others, were questioned about their attitudes toward TV advertising.

Key to the survey were questions about what impact new technologies like digital video recorders and video-on-demand will have on their TV ad budgets.

A big impact, came back the reply. Some 70 percent of advertisers reported that DVRs and VOD will ultimately reduce or destroy the effectiveness of traditional 30-second TV commercials.

In fact, when DVRs have spread to 30 million homes, nearly 60 percent of advertisers say that they will spend less on conventional TV advertising. Of those, 24 percent will chop TV budgets by at least a quarter.

With DVRs currently in 10 million households in the U.S., that day is not yet here. However, Forrester predicts that in three years the number of households with this technology will hit the 30 million figure.

The survey also found that, while 55 percent of companies report that top executives are watching the changes in TV advertising, most advertisers have yet to jump in and experiment with advertising possibilities on DVRs (49 percent) or VOD (44 percent).

Not surprisingly, the internet looks set to benefit from the shifting of ad dollars. Some 80 percent of advertisers say they will spend more of their advertising budget on web advertising, and 68 percent of advertisers will look to search engine marketing.

But if the lure of the 30-second spot is diminishing, television is likely to remain an attractive advertising vehicle, with advertisers looking to find other ways to get their message across.

For instance advertisers said they intended to spend more of their advertising budgets on branded entertainment within TV programs (61 percent), TV program sponsorship (55 percent), interactive advertisements during TV programs (48 percent) and product placement (44 percent).

Some 45 percent also said they were looking at online video ads.

As the industry changes, advertisers believe the way TV is measured will also need to change. Some 97 percent of advertisers believe that reach and frequency will not be enough. Effective measurement of TV advertising will require new audience metrics to report commercial ratings, not just program ratings.

However while this survey may not paint a rosy picture for the TV industry, many expect the TV industry to be pushing to innovate in such a way that TV remains a large part of the marketing mix.

“As new and traditional media alternatives compete more aggressively for a share of the media pie, and marketers look to improve consumer targeting, reduce costs and enhance accountability, television is aggressively responding," writes Bob Liodice, president and CEO of the ANA, in a release.

“With technology-based advances in addressability, enhanced television options, internet convergence (IPTV), and branded entertainment opportunities, television is likely to continue as the dominant part of the marketing mix."
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:03 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by HDTiVo
TiVo Opportunity: The Changing Ad Landscape
Opportunity? For a third party to tell me what commercials I will be forced to watch?
Don't tell me that Tivo is gonna start selling ads to end-users, forcing them to watch ads they'd have skipped before?

Ugh.
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:14 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by dstoffa
Opportunity? For a third party to tell me what commercials I will be forced to watch?
Don't tell me that Tivo is gonna start selling ads to end-users, forcing them to watch ads they'd have skipped before?

Ugh.
I am not sure were you got that from the article.

I would however not be at all surprised if someday TiVo starts offering 2 different service levels. Todays service and a reduced cost service that makes you watch some number of commercials.
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:22 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dstoffa
Opportunity? For a third party to tell me what commercials I will be forced to watch?
Don't tell me that Tivo is gonna start selling ads to end-users, forcing them to watch ads they'd have skipped before?

Ugh.
Tivo forcing you to watch ads? Nope, I don't think so.

How about them offering you a choice of long form (one to five min.) ad's? You get to choose the ones that you want to see and ignore the ones that you don't. Don't see anything that interests you or don't want to see them at all? Your choice. Just don't select them to view. (ala the "star" ads we see today)

No forcing. Just choice. Maybe you'll get info about products that interest you, maybe you won't look at them at all.

It's your choice.
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:33 PM   #5
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I wish they had the VW unpimp ads in the showcases right now. I'd mark them save until I delete if I could.
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:37 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by segaily
I am not sure were you got that from the article.
Extrapolation. The title of this thread is "Tivo Opportunity." The articles attached discuss the eroding impact of regular commercials and how ad buyers will begin to spend less money on ads because of DVR / time shifting. Why should they buy ad time when those ads aren't viewed? When enough viewers being to skip ads, it hurts the advertisers bottom line.

Tivo Opportunity = a chance for Tivo to make some extra cash by forcing ads down viewers throats.

I put two and two together. It is my beleif that the OP brought this up because it's possible that Tivo, in order to save itself, may get into bed with the advertisers.

Quote:
Originally Posted by segaily
I would however not be at all surprised if someday TiVo starts offering 2 different service levels. Todays service and a reduced cost service that makes you watch some number of commercials.
Maybe sooner than later. Lets hope not.
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Old 03-24-2006, 12:54 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dstoffa
I put two and two together. It is my beleif that the OP brought this up because it's possible that Tivo, in order to save itself, may get into bed with the advertisers.
TiVo has been in bed with advertisers for some time, as others have mentioned. Do you have a TiVo? If so, then surely you've seen TiVo's approach to advertising.

I like the opt-in ads. I'm always willing to watch a movie trailer or spot for a new TV show. I'd really like it if they would present them in an organized way -- I'm hopeful that the upcoming "ad search" feature will do just that. I like a car ad, too.
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Old 03-24-2006, 01:29 PM   #8
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This is probably the biggest reason why I don't recommend Tivo or talk about it any more. I don't like the star, I don't like the idea of the pop-up during FF, and I don't think Tivo is going to stop there...

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Old 03-24-2006, 02:16 PM   #9
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Originally Posted by Y-ASK
This is probably the biggest reason why I don't recommend Tivo or talk about it any more. I don't like the star, I don't like the idea of the pop-up during FF, and I don't think Tivo is going to stop there...

Y-ASK
I can understand being worried and a little upset about some of that , but to me that is a valid argument against getting a lifetime sub not a reason not to get TiVo at all.

If TiVo ever goes to far we can cancel our subscriptions on all the boxes that do not have lifetime. Even with a few negatives TiVo is still the best piece of AV gear I can think of. AT this point the only piece of AV gear I would give up after my TiVo would be the TV itself.
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Old 03-24-2006, 02:32 PM   #10
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TiVo, to my knowledge, is the only company with potential solutions to this "advertising dilema." Their solutions include statistics on how the commercials are viewed, as well as technology to get the viewer's attention in different ways - ways that let the viewer self select more, yielding "better" ad viewers.

TiVo's solutions are basically not about forcing ad viewership, but getting the remaining ad viewers to be better measured and better targeted.
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Old 03-24-2006, 02:45 PM   #11
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As much as I like skipping commercials it can't go on like this forever. Advertising is going to change. Right now we are in the golden age of commercial skipping. Networks can't continue to put out new shows if nobody will pay for them. We are either going to get commercials forced on us, or we will move to HBO's model for content. Programming has to get paid for one way or another. More than likely the Cabelco's will start pushing ad's on thier DVR's first, and TiVo won't be too far away. It will be interesting to see. I myself wouldn't mind paying $5 a month per channel for 10 commercial free channels. (NBC, CBS, ABC, FOX, ESPN, HBO, SCIFI, Discovery, CNN, and Showtime) I get a $50 cable bill and watch the 10 channels I predominantely watch today. If a network starts to suck drop it and pick up a new one. It can only lead to better programming. I just picked up HBO just for the sopranos, once it is over I will be cancelling HBO.
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Old 03-24-2006, 03:17 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by segaily
I can understand being worried and a little upset about some of that , but to me that is a valid argument against getting a lifetime sub not a reason not to get TiVo at all.
The problem is that at the beginning (when lifetime was purchased for two of my units) there were no Ads to speak of. There were some discussions about them under the usage terms fine print area. The problem is that many of us purchased our Tivos to record content and FF through commericals . That is exactly how I use my Tivo from day one. I have no regrets but I don't like the Stars and popup ads. If they go further I will probably sell my units and hopefully, with Lifetime being gone, I'll get more than I paid.

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Old 07-19-2006, 11:09 PM   #13
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http://www.tivo.com/5.3.6.asp

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TIMESHIFT Summit
"TimeShift: How TiVo Changes Advertising"
NYC, NY
Wednesday October 25, 2006
Speaker: Davina Kent, VP National Advertising Sales, TiVo Inc
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Old 07-19-2006, 11:25 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Y-ASK
The problem is that at the beginning (when lifetime was purchased for two of my units) there were no Ads to speak of. There were some discussions about them under the usage terms fine print area. The problem is that many of us purchased our Tivos to record content and FF through commericals . That is exactly how I use my Tivo from day one. I have no regrets but I don't like the Stars and popup ads. If they go further I will probably sell my units and hopefully, with Lifetime being gone, I'll get more than I paid.

Y-ASK

yah those yellow star ads on all the menus - wait a minute - on several of the menus -- err umm oh only on the one menu but then they have 10 of them , well 5 OK 1 at a time.

then you have the thousands of billboard ads, well I guess hundreds... No? OK then 10s of them

that no longer allow you to FFed the shows - oh you can? well I bet you can't skip ads anymore - oh 30 sec skip still works?

HUH - so after all that you end up using the TiVo exactly the same way as you did 5 years ago and all these horrible ad intrusions have not made you chnage one whit as to how you interact with the TiVo.

Well I certainly will stop using mine as well given all that
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Old 07-20-2006, 10:56 AM   #15
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The real problem is that whether TiVo gets the ad revenue or advertisers buy less TV slots the money won't be going to the network buying the show. So this will likely cause a downturn in show quality and budgets. We are already seeing it to a certain extent as the reality shows popular at the moment have very small budgets as compared to scripted television. Not to mention product placement within reality shows is much easier than with scripted shows. DVR manufacturers as a whole might actually be forced to eliminate ad skipping to preserve the television advertising market.
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Old 07-20-2006, 11:04 AM   #16
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Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo
yah those yellow star ads on all the menus - wait a minute - on several of the menus -- err umm oh only on the one menu but then they have 10 of them , well 5 OK 1 at a time.

then you have the thousands of billboard ads, well I guess hundreds... No? OK then 10s of them

that no longer allow you to FFed the shows - oh you can? well I bet you can't skip ads anymore - oh 30 sec skip still works?

HUH - so after all that you end up using the TiVo exactly the same way as you did 5 years ago and all these horrible ad intrusions have not made you chnage one whit as to how you interact with the TiVo.

Well I certainly will stop using mine as well given all that
I think you are missing the point a little here. Don't you think that TiVo uses this forum as a sort of market research device and gauges their plans based on feedback they get? How do we know what the original plans were before each of the things you listed caused an uproar in this community? or what would have happened if no one complained? One thing is certain though, if you don't say anything about the things you don't like, no one will know about it.
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Old 07-20-2006, 12:43 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormspace
I think you are missing the point a little here. Don't you think that TiVo uses this forum as a sort of market research device and gauges their plans based on feedback they get? How do we know what the original plans were before each of the things you listed caused an uproar in this community? or what would have happened if no one complained? One thing is certain though, if you don't say anything about the things you don't like, no one will know about it.
Yep, and I think the way they have done the ad part is great and respects my and your and Y-ASKS wish to keep using the TiVo the same way as always. TiVo, inc. has a long history of that ever since they tried the interstitial ad a good while ago and did indeed and well deservedly get slammed for.

I am willing to bet their plans never went much beyond what we see now as they well know they can not distance the customer base with intrusive ads. None of what they have done ad wise is intrusive.

So I do not like when people post about something that is just a purely subjective whine over something that is not intrusive and I exercise my right to post about it and provide TiVo Inc my feedback
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Old 07-20-2006, 01:53 PM   #18
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Yep, and I think the way they have done the ad part is great and respects my and your and Y-ASKS wish to keep using the TiVo the same way as always. TiVo, inc. has a long history of that ever since they tried the interstitial ad a good while ago and did indeed and well deservedly get slammed for.

I am willing to bet their plans never went much beyond what we see now as they well know they can not distance the customer base with intrusive ads. None of what they have done ad wise is intrusive.

So I do not like when people post about something that is just a purely subjective whine over something that is not intrusive and I exercise my right to post about it and provide TiVo Inc my feedback
In Y-Asks defense I remember the early TiVo ads and the sell was ad free television. I'm certain that marketing campaign was long gone before either of us came along, but for those that purchased TiVo's during that time I can understand the feeling that they were mislead, even if the TOS had the verbage in it for ads.

However, having said that I have an old friend that got one of the first TiVo's and he told me he was upset when the yellow star ads came along, but as I recall he didn't dwell on that topic when talking up TiVo to me, so he must have gotten over it.
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Old 07-20-2006, 02:02 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by Stormspace
In Y-Asks defense I remember the early TiVo ads and the sell was ad free television. I'm certain that marketing campaign was long gone before either of us came along, but for those that purchased TiVo's during that time I can understand the feeling that they were mislead, even if the TOS had the verbage in it for ads.

However, having said that I have an old friend that got one of the first TiVo's and he told me he was upset when the yellow star ads came along, but as I recall he didn't dwell on that topic when talking up TiVo to me, so he must have gotten over it.

My point that even Y-ASK is interacting with his TiVo DVR and any newer ones in the same way as the day Y-ASK got a TiVo DVR is not in contention.

That being said - it certainly is a subjective debate over how the one yellow star on the main menu affects a person. So no one can be right about that.
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Old 07-20-2006, 02:07 PM   #20
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Yes, TiVo smartened up and dropped the whole ad free or FF ads marketing stance so they can shrug their shoulders at content owners/broadcasters who want to make people watch ads on DVRs.

but that ad free is still there in all they do. My point that even Y-ASK is interacting with his TiVo DVR and any newer ones in the same way as the day Y-ASK got a TiVo DVR is not in contention.

That being said - it certainly is a subjective debate over how the one yellow star on the main menu affects a person. So no one can be right about that.
I think for most people it's about drawing a line in the sand and saying, "No, you cannot cross this." You know, the slippery slope and all that.
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Old 07-20-2006, 04:02 PM   #21
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I think for most people it's about drawing a line in the sand and saying, "No, you cannot cross this." You know, the slippery slope and all that.
which circles me right around to my original point.

1 yellow star at a time, only on the main menu
limited use of billboard ads - does not change 30 sec skip or FFing one whit
product watch can be completely ignored
The way you interacted with a TiVo 5 years ago is the same way you interact with it now.


you can say slippery slope as many times as you want but the facts speak of a very level headed aproach on very firm ground
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Old 07-20-2006, 04:19 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormspace
In Y-Asks defense I remember the early TiVo ads and the sell was ad free television.

In TiVo's defense, and having been here from the beginning...your memory is faulty.

A friend may have told you TiVo was great for skipping ads. But TiVo didn't. It wasn't part of our advertising.

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Old 07-20-2006, 04:20 PM   #23
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Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo
which circles me right around to my original point.

1 yellow star at a time, only on the main menu
limited use of billboard ads - does not change 30 sec skip or FFing one whit
product watch can be completely ignored
The way you interacted with a TiVo 5 years ago is the same way you interact with it now.


you can say slippery slope as many times as you want but the facts speak of a very level headed aproach on very firm ground
slippery slope, slippery slope, slippery slope, slippery slope, slippery slope, slippery slope, slippery slope, slippery slope, slippery slope.

Sorry, couldn't resist.

I really do wonder what would have happened if no one complained about the ads on the machines. Would we have a different TiVo today than we do? I think we would and it's a good thing the TiVo community isn't filled with apathy about commercials like the general population is about DRM.
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Old 07-20-2006, 04:38 PM   #24
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In TiVo's defense, and having been here from the beginning...your memory is faulty.

A friend may have told you TiVo was great for skipping ads. But TiVo didn't. It wasn't part of our advertising.

Pony
So the ad where the guys were putting the goop in their trousers wasn't in reference to ads that no one wanted to see?

Just found it. If this isn't a reference to skipping commercials I don't know what it is. Golf Commercial

I believe the quote was "skip the stuff you don't want to see."
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Old 07-20-2006, 04:54 PM   #25
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Then and Than are the same word, right?
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Old 07-21-2006, 09:07 AM   #26
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Originally Posted by Stormspace
So the ad where the guys were putting the goop in their trousers wasn't in reference to ads that no one wanted to see?

Just found it. If this isn't a reference to skipping commercials I don't know what it is. Golf Commercial

I believe the quote was "skip the stuff you don't want to see."
so do you want TiVo DVRs to be officially about skipping commercials so the ABC exec can be right in that DVRs are all about skipping commercials so therefor that must be stopped since it hurts ABC's business model ??

I am not quite sure what point your are creating here that helps ensures our DVRs continue to work as they always did. I am sure TiVo inc. gets the point that we do not want changes to how we watch a show on a TiVo DVR.
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Old 07-21-2006, 11:21 AM   #27
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Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo
so do you want TiVo DVRs to be officially about skipping commercials so the ABC exec can be right in that DVRs are all about skipping commercials so therefor that must be stopped since it hurts ABC's business model ??

I am not quite sure what point your are creating here that helps ensures our DVRs continue to work as they always did. I am sure TiVo inc. gets the point that we do not want changes to how we watch a show on a TiVo DVR.
Absolutely not, but to say that ad wasn't about skipping commercials is wrong. The fact is that the act of skipping commercials was obviously implied by the delivery and presentation used. It is also obvious as to TiVo's reasoning for doing it that way. It would have been better to ignore my statement than try to make it seem false, when it in fact is not. But I don't expect to see a retraction as that might open TiVo up to liability and attention they don't want.
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Old 07-21-2006, 01:16 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormspace
Absolutely not, but to say that ad wasn't about skipping commercials is wrong. The fact is that the act of skipping commercials was obviously implied by the delivery and presentation used. It is also obvious as to TiVo's reasoning for doing it that way. It would have been better to ignore my statement than try to make it seem false, when it in fact is not. But I don't expect to see a retraction as that might open TiVo up to liability and attention they don't want.
But now you can both skip and download commercials; you can even skip commercials you download; so the world is perfect until it changes.
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Old 08-08-2006, 09:17 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Stormspace
So the ad where the guys were putting the goop in their trousers wasn't in reference to ads that no one wanted to see?

Just found it. If this isn't a reference to skipping commercials I don't know what it is. Golf Commercial

I believe the quote was "skip the stuff you don't want to see."
But that wasn't about skipping ads altogether...just skipping the specific part of the ad you didn't want to see.

Or anything else you wanted to skip. Like maybe the halftime show. Or a boring guest on a talk show. "Stuff".

Too bad we were never allowed to release the outtakes from that commercial. They were hilarious. But will never be seen.

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Old 08-08-2006, 09:44 PM   #30
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Originally Posted by TiVoPony
Too bad we were never allowed to release the outtakes from that commercial. They were hilarious. But will never be seen.
I seem to remember seeing some kind of outtakes from that commercial. Maybe some of the outtakes were released on the TiVo web site or as a TiVo Central item or something?

Or, maybe I just imagined the whole thing.

Last edited by modnar : 08-08-2006 at 09:58 PM.
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