7.2.2 "Deleted Shows" refinements

GoAWest · 03-14-2006, 05:44 PM

Just got the 7.2.2 (Winter 2006 SW update) and have several significant nits with the new "Deleted Show" archive feature.

1) It sorts from oldest (top) to newest. This is the opposite of what makes sense to me--I'm far more likely to want to recover a recently recorded & deleted show. In any case, if putting the oldest first makes sense for some, this needs to be a configurable option.

2) The files are shown "flat" within this area (now shows 105 deleted shows on my 155hr S2--interesting that it still had, saved and noticed this from pre-7.2.2). I use the Groups feature for sorting my shows--I'd like to be able to use Groups within the deleted area as well.

3) I may not want to save shows (e.g. privacy or shared family TiVos; not letting the kids recover and watch the same shows over and over). There is an option to permanently delete shows in the Delete bin, but it's *one show at a time.* I'd like a way to bulk delete stuff (esp. if organized by Groups) *and* I'd like an *option* to turn off this new Deleted Show feature entirely. And it would be nice to make the old deletion-confirm a user-settable option (turn off on my TiVo, leave on on the kid's TiVo...).

JacksTiVo · 03-26-2006, 07:15 AM

Thanks TIVO for adding this long requested feature. The reason I and many other TIVO owners are your best marketing tool (word of mouth) is that you have made TIVO very user friendly. In particular, the simplicity of the user interface, i.e. you do not have to be a techie to use it.

The newly added "Deleted Show Folder" does not need more bells and whistles added to it. Its sole purpose is to allow recovery of an inadvertent deletion and is not intended to be another show storage folder. The elimination of the "confirm delete" step has also simplified the TIVO experience. The "Deleted Show Folder" also has a neat but simple feature. By giving you a count of the number of shows stored in the folder, it gives you a quick approximation of the quantity of shows you'll be able to record without affecting the status of the "TIVO Suggestions" recorded shows on your "Now Playing List". These shows are the first to go when the TIVO hard drive is full and you have requested a show to be recorded.

I have had a Series 1 for almost 4-1/2 years and purchased a Series 2 this past Dec. I have never had to reboot either one due to a software (or hardware) problem. Think about it. Can that claim be made of a M/S powered product? TIVO's success is their design of a well tested product with user friendly features, but not overdesigned with fancy extras that could lead to user problems and frequent software updates.

On the other hand, the one feature they have that uses the M/S O/S platform (TIVO-to-go) still has bugs. I was advised by Tech support that they are still working on resolving the bugs. I wonder how well the M/S media center software performs and if it is as reliable as my TIVO's.

Blurayfan · 03-26-2006, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoAWest

Just got the 7.2.2 (Winter 2006 SW update) and have several significant nits with the new "Deleted Show" archive feature.

1) It sorts from oldest (top) to newest. This is the opposite of what makes sense to me--I'm far more likely to want to recover a recently recorded & deleted show. In any case, if putting the oldest first makes sense for some, this needs to be a configurable option.

I believe it puts the oldest on top because those are the first to be deleted.

jshore · 03-26-2006, 10:32 AM

Gotta admit - not a huge fan of this new feature. Maybe if i had kids or whatnot accidentally deleting shows, but i don't. So now instead of confirming a deletion, i have to delete, then navigate to a folder, delete again, and confirm that. All with no way to group delete. Not quite as user friendly, in my opinion.

Again, I understand why this is a good thing for many Tivo owners. But adding the ability to group delete would be appreciated, as well. (Plus I'm one of those people who like to keep as much free space on a hard drive as possible - just seems like all those "not quite deleted yet" shows are only clogging up hard drive space.)

Blurayfan · 03-26-2006, 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jshore

Gotta admit - not a huge fan of this new feature. Maybe if i had kids or whatnot accidentally deleting shows, but i don't. So now instead of confirming a deletion, i have to delete, then navigate to a folder, delete again, and confirm that. All with no way to group delete. Not quite as user friendly, in my opinion.

Again, I understand why this is a good thing for many Tivo owners. But adding the ability to group delete would be appreciated, as well. (Plus I'm one of those people who like to keep as much free space on a hard drive as possible - just seems like all those "not quite deleted yet" shows are only clogging up hard drive space.)

Yes this feature could use refinements such as group delete.

These programs are not cluttering up hard drive, deleted programs are the very first thing reclaimed followed by suggestions when space is required for your requested recordings. Why put yourself through the extra step of permanently deleting the recordings the DVR with do that automatically when the space is required.

jshore · 03-26-2006, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DVDKingdom

These programs are not cluttering up hard drive, deleted programs are the very first thing reclaimed followed by suggestions when space is required for your requested recordings. Why put yourself through the extra step of permanently deleting the recordings the DVR with do that automatically when the space is required.

Guess because i've always thought of a hard drive's performance being sluggish or less than ideal when full. So if i wait for my tivo to automatically make space, that assumes my tivo is entirely full all the time. It will just keep filling up with deleted shows, and only get rid of them to make room for new shows. But either way, i have a full hard drive.

megazone · 03-26-2006, 05:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jshore

Guess because i've always thought of a hard drive's performance being sluggish or less than ideal when full. So if i wait for my tivo to automatically make space, that assumes my tivo is entirely full all the time. It will just keep filling up with deleted shows, and only get rid of them to make room for new shows. But either way, i have a full hard drive.

You *always* have a full drive. Deleting the shows from the Recently Deleted folder does nothing other than unlink them from the folder. They're still on the drive, still in the filesystem.

Basically there used to be two states for a show:
1. Not yet deleted, linked in Now Playing.
2. Deleted, unlinked from Now Playing.

7.2.2 just added a new state.
1. Not yet deleted, linked in Now Playing.
2. Deleted, unlinked from Now Playing, linked to Recently Deleted
3. Deleted from Recently Deleted, unlinked from Recently Deleted

That's why when people get the upgrade shows deleted before the upgrade are already in the folder - it is just exposing stuff that was always there. (There were 3rd party hacks for undelete before too.)

The show never actual goes away until the space is needed and the unit reclaims it for a new recording. The actual logic for handling space hasn't changed.

So deleting them from the RD folder does nothing other than make them disappear from the list.

TivoGeezer · 03-27-2006, 11:35 AM

Wow, type "A" TiVo users can never be happy with a new feature. TiVo is not a computer so don't worry about files you are seeing in a list as taking up space or reducing performance. Ignore the folder if you don't need to recover a deleted program. You do NOT have to delete a program twice. This would be like throwing a piece of paper into an empty wastebasket and then immediately emptying the wastebasket into a paper bag and then immediatly taking that bag to the garbage can and then immediately taking that can to the curb for the next pick up and then calling your trash hauler to come empty this can. "And hurry".

cragin · 03-27-2006, 02:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoAWest

Just got the 7.2.2 (Winter 2006 SW update) and have several significant nits with the new "Deleted Show" archive feature.

1) It sorts from oldest (top) to newest. This is the opposite of what makes sense to me--I'm far more likely to want to recover a recently recorded & deleted show. In any case, if putting the oldest first makes sense for some, this needs to be a configurable option.

2) The files are shown "flat" within this area (now shows 105 deleted shows on my 155hr S2--interesting that it still had, saved and noticed this from pre-7.2.2). I use the Groups feature for sorting my shows--I'd like to be able to use Groups within the deleted area as well.

3) I may not want to save shows (e.g. privacy or shared family TiVos; not letting the kids recover and watch the same shows over and over). There is an option to permanently delete shows in the Delete bin, but it's *one show at a time.* I'd like a way to bulk delete stuff (esp. if organized by Groups) *and* I'd like an *option* to turn off this new Deleted Show feature entirely. And it would be nice to make the old deletion-confirm a user-settable option (turn off on my TiVo, leave on on the kid's TiVo...).

And I would like a series 4 tivo with vitual reality and I would like a pony and i would like...

GoAWest · 03-27-2006, 05:07 PM

Maybe TiVo and other users are assuming that everybody has 40-hour TiVos, but for those of us with larger units, the flat "Now Playing" (and now "Deleted") lists take a long time to scroll thru looking for something. The "Groups" feature was a welcome addition to "Now Playing" and would be for "Deleted Shows" as well. As I mentioned in my original post, I have over 100 "Deleted Shows" that are sorted by original recording date (not date I deleted) so it would be a hassle trying to find a show, esp. when a lot of the shows look alike (e.g. same show with a different episode titles). Groups, sort, search, etc. would all be ways of helping here.

As for "Storing shows," that's not my intent--I was "OK" when deleting a show meant it was gone. But *if* TiVo is going to set up this "Deleted Shows" feature, it might as well make it "user friendly." And I know I "will" end up using it for my kids even if I seldom use it myself, esp. given the removal of the confirmation dialog.

I did find I could use the "skip" button to jump to the end of the Deleted Shows list (somewhat mitigates the fact that TiVo elected to present the deleted shows in the "wrong" order).

As for "I want, I want, I want"--that's the name of the game as a consumer, and suggestions and gripes presented here *have* made TiVo better over the years. As an open forum, you don't have to like or agree with my opinions, you're welcome to present alternative or opposite opinions, and TiVo can elect to include or dismiss ideas presented here, but in the end I'll vote with my (non)dollars, directly or thru (non)recommendationss to others. I would hope that TiVo would appreciate folks taking the time to politely speak up and make suggestions even if other forum posters don't.

Puppy76 · 03-29-2006, 01:22 PM

IMO it's just not a big deal since you'll hardly ever be looking in the deleted items folder. Yeah, it would be nice if it sorted like the Now Playing list, but it's still a neat feature. (Although it's a little freaky to me when stuff just instantly deletes now!)

murryamorris · 04-03-2006, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppy76

IMO it's just not a big deal since you'll hardly ever be looking in the deleted items folder. Yeah, it would be nice if it sorted like the Now Playing list, but it's still a neat feature. (Although it's a little freaky to me when stuff just instantly deletes now!)

You can change the instant delete if it bothered you.

I have to agree about sorting or having folders in the deleted folder as I have 2 very large Tivo's and I do restore files once in a while so making it faster would be nice by grouping or adding a few sort options. I don't think it's a huge deal but hey, Tivo adds features as they can so why are some people complaining that a user is wishing for more features? It's kind of stupid to expect someone to not want added features that simplify a good feature. I really like this new feature but don't see why it can't be made better (like they did with the now playing sort).

At least now I see you can jump to the bottom quickly. Try paging through 100's of deleted shows and you'll see why grouping and sorting is nice.

PeternJim · 04-06-2006, 09:24 AM

I'd still like to see a "To be deleted" queue.

In the To Do List, there is a top entry that lets you view Recording History. Now that we have the Deleted Folder, put a top entry that lists To Be Deleted, and the order that TiVo plans to automatically delete or overwrite the shows that I have not yet deleted. I know I can do this manually by checking each item separately, and I rely on the icon change to warn me when something is about to go.

It would still be great if there were a list of all my active shows, sorted in order by scheduled deletion (actually, sorted by Keep Until date) with the option to right-arrow from each one directly to the Keep Until screen so I can easily modify the ones that I haven't gotten to.

It would add the same functionality to deletion that we now have for upcoming recordings. We don't have to scroll through each Season Pass to see what's scheduled, we have the To Do List.

megazone · 04-30-2006, 06:33 PM

Before sorting the Now Playing list became a standard feature, there was the S0RT backdoor. In addition to alphabetical and record date sorting, there was a 3rd option - sort by delete. It sorted the list in the order the shows would be deleted.

When it was made an official options, for some reason that was dropped.

sgreen0 · 05-28-2006, 01:44 PM

Add my vote to sort Recently Deleted folder in reverse order...

Stephen

NDJollyMon · 05-28-2006, 11:31 PM

How do I get this upgrade? I've had my third TiVo S2 DT for almost a month and no upgrade yet. I love this new software version on my other TiVo's.

Anyway to speed up this upgrade process?

Update: I see on another thread it's not available to S2 DT's yet...thanx

sjmyst · 07-05-2007, 01:39 AM

I'm probably posting in the wrong place. But, this did seem like the thread for posting "Undelete" enhancement requests.

Does anyone else have the problem where they go to the "Recently Deleted" folder to recover a program and it's gone? And, it's gone by the next day (I have actually had a program removed within 3 hours from the "Recently Deleted" folder)? Yes, I have Tivo Suggestions turned on. So, I do understand why this is happening. I just think that items in the "Recently Deleted" folder that have been put in that folder "recently" should have a higher priority than Tivo Suggestions.

So, my enhancement request is to have a setting (lets call it Undelete Recovery Minimum) that specifies the number of days that a program is required to remain in the "Recently Deleted" folder until it is considered a lower priority than a Tivo Suggestion.

To try to clarify, I'll give an example. Supposed the Undelete Recovery Minimum setting is set to 5 days. The idea is that the Tivo will delete programs in the following order:

- Programs in the "Recently Deleted" folder that have been there for more than 5 days.
- Tivo Suggestions (same order as today).
- Programs in the "Recently Deleted" folder that have been there for 5 days or less.
- Programs not "Recently Deleted" or Tivo Suggestions (the rest).

IMHO, this feature will allow the "Recently Deleted" folder to work better with Tivo Suggestions turned on. My reasons for wanting this are because I have encountered MANY times where I have wanted to recover a program after talking to friends about a program. It happens for my sporting events, where me and my friend are talking about some sort of play from yesterday's game. Or, with other shows like Lost where my friend has told me about some "clue" to the show. Where I rush home to see what they were talking about. Only to find the show has been permanently deleted to record a Tivo Suggestion like Wheel of Fortune.

Yes, I can turn off Tivo Suggestions. But, every once in a blue moon, I find something there that I like (some work could really be done with Tivo Suggestions, but that's fodder for a completely full other thread).

Anyway, Tivo says they read these things. And, I did some searching and didn't see anything like this. My Tivo friends have run into the same problems as I have with programs getting permanently deleted. So, I thought I'd share.

Let the buzzards descend to pick apart my idea!!

sjmyst

classicsat · 07-05-2007, 09:03 AM

The Delete folder is supposed to be an "oops" folder, where you would undelete if you accidentally delete a recording. It is assumed if you don't undelete a deleted recording, that absolutely don't want it anymore.

If you want recordings to stick around, you ought not to delete them, but would rather have an "already viewed" flag.

Puppy76 · 07-05-2007, 09:40 AM

Right. It's way too confusing if anything gets deleted prior to deleting things from the deleted folder. It's the equivalent of the Trash/Recycle Bin on a computer. It's NOT a spot to store things, just a way to possibly get them back if you made a mistake.