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Old 11-08-2006, 09:32 AM   #211
ah30k
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colincd
My point is that TiVO should not be passing along this fee to the consumer.
If they need to pass along the license fee, then pass along that "small" fee, don't generate revenue off of it.
There are creative ways to generate money and get more TiVo boxes out there.
It's hard to give boxes away for free, pay a monthly license to tribune without passing it along and offer service upgrades while still making money. I'm sure Pony would love to talk to you about your business case for earning a required rate of return for the TiVo investors.
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Old 11-08-2006, 09:40 AM   #212
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Originally Posted by timckelley
Wow. So that sounds like if you sign up for 3 years at $12.95 per month, when the 3 years is up, (suppose here that rates do not go up in the next 3 years) you will automatically be renewed at $19.95 per month. Worse, if the rates go up. Of course I would think you'd have to option to sign up for another 3 years if you want. But this means to avoid the high rates, you will always be in on a 3 year contract, even after that 3 years is up - you need a new 3 year contract.

Wow.
Just to be clear, you would not be "renewed" at $19.95/month, you would have a monthly payment of $19.95, with no commitment. But if you went for a new contract (to get the lower rates), you could also get whatever new hardware they are offering for free at that time. Three years from now, the low-end TiVo box will be at least dual-tuners and digital, and possibly HD (or that might be an upgrade).

It's not as no-strings as a cable DVR, but there is no way for TiVo to be that no-strings. But the new plans do offer a hardware upgrade path.
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Old 11-08-2006, 09:40 AM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ah30k
It's hard to give boxes away for free, pay a monthly license to tribune without passing it along and offer service upgrades while still making money. I'm sure Pony would love to talk to you about your business case for earning a required rate of return for the TiVo investors.
TiVo, the secret is the more boxes you have out there, the more money you can generate by exploiting that saturation.
Take a look at the book written by Chris Anderson, or better yet, read this summary.

http://p6.hostingprod.com/@www.ventu...06/001260.html

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...62&q=long+tail

Last edited by colincd : 11-08-2006 at 09:49 AM.
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Old 11-08-2006, 10:10 AM   #214
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Originally Posted by colincd
Timckelley,
don't worry, the hard drive in that box will not last more than four years anyway.
The point was made that unlike the old Lifetime Service this "new service commitment" is not connected to any one TiVo unit, you can change TiVo units at any time as long as one TiVo stays on the contract so all your committing to is 3 years of TiVo service and if you already have a lifetime TiVo (or another at non MSD pricing) the 3 years is at $6.95/month. As (or if ) TiVo comes out with new hardware you can get it and put it on the same contract. The real problem is if you can't get the rebates on the new hardware, but the Series 3 does not have a rebate anyway.
I am not saying I like this pricing because before April of 06 it was an easy job to sell TiVo to my friends and family GO LIFETIME and be done with it, as least for the first TiVo, then the 2nd on was at $6.96/month, no contract past 60 days (if you wanted the rebate). Now I would not even try to explain it to anybody, if people ask me about TiVo I tell them to go to a store that sells them and let the store explain it to them, and if they end up not liking their options they will be mad at the store not me.
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Old 11-08-2006, 10:30 AM   #215
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It seems to me that TiVo is trying to move away from the brick and mortar distribution model and trying to move new customers to ordering bundles from TiVo directly. We may not like this business decision, but I cannot say I blame them. They seem to have very little control over the presentation of their product in stores or quality of the salespeople. They probably have better margins on bundles and don't have to deal with rebates and other hassles. Their SA growth in recent quarters has been rather anemic and for them to survive as a business, they need to adapt.
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:20 AM   #216
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Quote:
Originally Posted by colincd
This really stinks.
I understand that TiVO wants to make the entry cost for TiVO low, so the monthly commitments are in place, but shouldn't the TiVO Guide be free after a point in time?
No. Just that "fulfilled" or fully owned boxes pay a lesser rate with no commitment. Under current conditions, it would be impossible to give both the boxes and the service away, and have a user palatable service.

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Where are the good competitors? Competition makes everything better. Where are you?
There are none, currently, in the standalone DVR appliance segment, with the level of features TiVo has. Everything else is a provider DVR, or lesser featured.

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Let us buy the box and be free from monthly fees.
Most of he general public will not want to buy the box at the price they'd have to sell it at to provide free service.

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TiVO find another way to generate monthly revenue. Try banner ads while I Fast Forward. Strike better deals with MSO's and Set Top Box makers.
They do, but it doesn't provide much revenue. And they have deals with Comcast and some other providers. As for non-provider based CE STB manufacturers, they might have another round of them in a couple years.

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Don't gouge me, just sell me a box and let me be free.
Once my car is paid off, I don't have to pay general motors for the right to own the car.
So go buy a box that has free DVR service. TiVo isn't it.
For your car, GM'd business model is to sell the hardware. TiVos is to sell the service to consumers, with the hardware as a means to provide the service.

Quote:
Programming guides have to cost you nothing. The data for most people is gathered over the internet, so you no longer need expensive modems in local exchanges..
Guide data costs them, as corporate users of the data. TiVos need servers to modfy and manage that data, and the modem pool to send it to TiVos not directly connected to the internet.

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Set me free and let me enjoy TiVO, before someone takes your place.
Competition fixes everything..
Then create a competitive DVR that will compete with TiVos business model, and customers they intend to gain, or may lose becasue of their choices.
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:25 AM   #217
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kido
It seems to me that TiVo is trying to move away from the brick and mortar distribution model and trying to move new customers to ordering bundles from TiVo directly. We may not like this business decision, but I cannot say I blame them. They seem to have very little control over the presentation of their product in stores or quality of the salespeople. They probably have better margins on bundles and don't have to deal with rebates and other hassles. Their SA growth in recent quarters has been rather anemic and for them to survive as a business, they need to adapt.
you know this really puts some sense around the whole thing for me. I hate the rebates as well and TiVo has most likely found success with the online sales. The part that would go to the B&M store makes up for the percentage of rebates typically not fulfilled. Plus they no longer need to pay a 3rd party rebate center.

So lower the cost to what the rebate would have made it, sell the box for that online and make sure the customer is in for the long haul to protect against the low hardware cost without rebate hassle. They can easily control the cost to supply the hardware as the only variable cost left outside their control is the shipping.

I guess we are all railing against it because of the fact that Service Only plans fall under the same umbrella now adn thus MSD rates came along for the ride as well. Really my only gripe is that I need to keep re-upping for 3 years to maintain the current rate on any new service activations(like my DT when it comes off special) but this also fits the theory that TiVo wants me to seriously consider ditching that old S2 DT in 3 years in favor of whatever new hardware is the low cost or free TiVo at that time.
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Old 11-08-2006, 11:37 AM   #218
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo
So lower the cost to what the rebate would have made it, sell the box for that online and make sure the customer is in for the long haul to protect against the low hardware cost without rebate hassle. They can easily control the cost to supply the hardware as the only variable cost left outside their control is the shipping.
So what's the cost (penalty) for cancelling the service early, say at the 2 year mark on a 3 year service deal?

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Old 11-08-2006, 11:50 AM   #219
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Originally Posted by Y-ASK
So what's the cost (penalty) for cancelling the service early, say at the 2 year mark on a 3 year service deal?
Up to $150 for service only plans, up to $200 for bundled hardware and service. It almost looks like you're let off the hook on the service-only plan after 12 months...? maybe I'm misreading it or maybe it's a mistake, I can't imagine that's their intention.

http://www.tivo.com/5.11.6.asp
Quote:
An early termination fee of the lesser of $200.00 or the amount owed on the remaining term of your monthly TiVo Package commitment will be charged to you if your monthly TiVo Package is cancelled prior to the end of your commitment

An early termination fee of up to $150.00 applies to your one (1) year monthly TiVo Service Only Payment Plan if cancelled prior to the end of your commitment
TiVo does extend the warranty period on bundled hardware/service plans which is good. I'd like to see it also offered on service-only plans.

Quote:
The parts portion only of your Limited Warranty for your TiVo DVR will be extended for the term of your commitment period.

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Old 12-02-2006, 03:51 PM   #220
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This is my first time here and I only found this by accident. I was looking for something on the Tivo website and I saw a link that took me here.
I just wanted to state that when I called Tivo about the lifetime availability back when it was available, but expiring soon, I was TOLD that the lifetime was only available for newer purchases and I DID NOT qualify. Well to my amazement after reading here I see that I DID qualify and that the person I spoke to was sadly mistaken and definitely misinformed. I never thought to ask to speak to a supervisor, because I trusted that the person I spoke with knew what they were talking about. I am very disappointed that I missed out. I don't feel that I should have to fight/argue with a customer service person to get to speak to a qualified rep that knows what is going on.

I also read on here that some Humax brands had lifetime still available. Are certain models still available for lifetime service agreements? If so what models, where can I find them, and how much would the lifetime cost? I called customer service today and the rep told me NO that NO TIVOS are offering lifetime subscriptions any longer, but reading this makes me question their ability to know what is and isn't going on. Her knowledge of how the new HD plan worked was not very good either. I was more informed than she.

I am also trying to understand the new service agreements. I have 2 tivos both with lifetimes, if I get a 3rd what would my payment options be? Would I pay the $6.95 mo? Or do I have to buy a 1, 2, or 3 yr plan(monthly not an option for me, so I didn't put it down)? And are the new plans not for particular tivos, but just a time frame? Meaning If I can buy another tivo made by Pioneer tomorrow get the 3yr term and then transfer that 3yrs term in a year(now 2yrs remaining) to a new tivo made by tivo or does it have to be to a certain brand (tivo to tivo only, pioneer to pioneer only, humax to humax only). Please help I am really confused. And I don't want to get SCREWED AGAIN by not having the correct information.
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Old 12-02-2006, 04:28 PM   #221
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If you get a new Humax DVD unit, you can put lifetime on it for $299. No other boxes qualify for lifetime, including Pioneer.

As for the transferability, yes - when you sub to a prepaid or month/month plan, you are committing to a service plan, not a particular hardware box, so it can be moved to a new box (say, a Series 3) later on down the line.
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Old 12-02-2006, 05:03 PM   #222
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Quote:
Originally Posted by solrac
This is my first time here and I only found this by accident. I was looking for something on the Tivo website and I saw a link that took me here.
Really? Have the rolled back to the original March Plan fiasco already?
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