Darn you TIVO....

BillyT2002 · 01-11-2006, 12:17 PM

Publically annound the series 3 already! We're all sick of waiting and you're killing me here.

ZeoTiVo · 01-11-2006, 01:59 PM

.

Quote:

Originally Posted by TiVoPony

second half of 2006

HogarthNH · 01-11-2006, 02:22 PM

A press release would still be nice.
There are milestones between here and being able to buy one.
Seeing each milestone reached is exciting to those awaiting the hardware.

Every time TiVo evades setting or reaching a milestone, it's a bad omen.

H

bidger · 01-11-2006, 03:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HogarthNH

A press release would still be nice.

I think it's a matter of a lot of things about the unit are still to be determined that a press release at this point would still leave a lot unanswered.

megazone · 01-11-2006, 10:14 PM

Yeah - the showing at CES was kind of a teaser and not an official product launch. Since the unit isn't shipping until the second half, it is too early to spend their press coverage. If they do a release now it'll get covered in the popular press, but with the dark cloud of a long wait. Then when it is closer and they try to publicize it, a lot of press will ignore it as something they already covered.

This way they get word of mouth amongst the community (us) and industry, without having use their press collateral too early.

HogarthNH · 01-12-2006, 09:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by megazone

Since the unit isn't shipping until the second half, it is too early to spend their press coverage.

Not for any of the other companies at CES.
I'd say probably 40% of products demoed at CES are scheduled for a second half of the year release.
It's the entire reason they have CES.

I think the lack of a press release is indicative of TiVo's nervousness and lack of positive cash flow. Only announcing the product will prove this one way or the other.

It's put up or shut up time, TiVo.

H

MickeS · 01-12-2006, 12:27 PM

And if they DID officially announce it now, people would complain that they announced it too early, since it's not gonna be available for at least another 6 months (Osborne and all that...)

Bierboy · 01-12-2006, 12:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HogarthNH

...I'd say probably 40% of products demoed at CES are scheduled for a second half of the year release.
It's the entire reason they have CES....

Maybe that's why it's called "2006 CES" and not "First Six Months of 2006 CES" or "Middle Three Months of 2006 CES" or "Last Six Months of 2006 CES".

bidger · 01-12-2006, 12:57 PM

Well, I do think HognarthNH's comments are valid. I was confused when I saw the TiVo CES web page and no mention of the HD unit. I realize we're talking about a very small percentage of the market, but it's a market that's drifting to other solutions for recording HD. OK, so they announced it at last years CES, but a blurb about having a working model as a reminder of sorts...how does that hurt? They might be embarrassed about the slowness of being able to go to market with the unit, but given that they're having to deal with cable on Cable Card 2.0 specs, it's understandable.

megazone · 01-13-2006, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bierboy

Maybe that's why it's called "2006 CES" and not "First Six Months of 2006 CES" or "Middle Three Months of 2006 CES" or "Last Six Months of 2006 CES".

That has nothing to do with it. CES takes place once a year, the name is the year the show takes place, period.

A LOT of products are not announced at CES. I know of others, from other vendors (and no, I'm not saying anything). CES is not the only show. There is CEDIA, where a lot of things are announced. There is an Internaltional CES later in the year. CES is not the only event and hardly the only venue for things to be announced.

Each company decides where and when to announce their products for the best result. TiVo felt that CES was not the best time because they didn't want to be swallowed up in all the new from the 'big boys'. That's why this year, instead of a plethora of announcements at CES, they trickled out announcements in the months leading up to CES, and they've withheld other announcements for later this year - like the Series3.

That's there choice, and I think it makes sense given their size. They can spread things out and sustain more press coverage than one big wave, and they don't have to fight for ink as much, while still getting some buzz just from being at the show.

gastrof · 01-15-2006, 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bierboy

Maybe that's why it's called "2006 CES" and not "First Six Months of 2006 CES" or "Middle Three Months of 2006 CES" or "Last Six Months of 2006 CES".

Quote:

Originally Posted by megazone

That has nothing to do with it. CES takes place once a year, the name is the year the show takes place, period...

I think the point being made was that just because something is displayed at "2006 CES", that doesn't mean it'll be released immediately. It could be months and months away.

That's what I understood Bierboy to mean. Could be wrong, of course...

HogarthNH · 01-16-2006, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gastrof

I think the point being made was that just because something is displayed at "2006 CES", that doesn't mean it'll be released immediately. It could be months and months away.

That's what I understood Bierboy to mean. Could be wrong, of course...

Amen.

In my mind -- lack of an announcement connotates that you didn't have anything worth announcing. Otherwise, you would have at least issued a vague press release. 99% of the companies did, even if they make ipod knockoff mp3 players that suck.

If you have a great brand, people waiting to hear your announcement, and you STILL don't bother? That, to me, indicates a serious problem, of one nature or another.

H

ZeoTiVo · 01-16-2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HogarthNH

Amen.

In my mind -- lack of an announcement connotates that you didn't have anything worth announcing. Otherwise, you would have at least issued a vague press release. 99% of the companies did, even if they make ipod knockoff mp3 players that suck.

If you have a great brand, people waiting to hear your announcement, and you STILL don't bother? That, to me, indicates a serious problem, of one nature or another.

H

umm, they did anounce the second half of 2006 and had a hands on demo at CES.
and gave out the tech details they could be sure of to anyone who cared to ask.

so you want a press release saying the same thing to somehow make it more official

BillyT2002 · 01-16-2006, 11:45 AM

^ ^ ^ ^
Zeo, that is precisely what I want. Until I see that, TIVO is killing me.

HogarthNH · 01-16-2006, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo

so you want a press release saying the same thing to somehow make it more official

Yup.

We've gotten more information out of products that never made it to market, even from TiVo.

Thus, if correlation implies causation (and I know that it doesn't) -- less information == product REALLY never going to make it to market.

I know, I know -- TiVo is just being cautious. Well, that sure is a new thing for them.
Disappointing at best.

H

Stoystown · 01-16-2006, 12:07 PM

Personally, I think the lack of an official announcement has more to do with the lack of a final specification or roll out date for Cable Card II than Tivo Series 3.

They have to get the specs down for the CC II before Tivo releases the Series 3.

ZeoTiVo · 01-16-2006, 12:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stoystown

Personally, I think the lack of an official announcement has more to do with the lack of a final specification or roll out date for Cable Card II than Tivo Series 3.

They have to get the specs down for the CC II before Tivo releases the Series 3.

all they needed was the spec on multistream and they have that. the whole cable card thing held them up last year but not this year. Seems like TiVo finally decided not to worry about two way interactive communication which had nothing to do with the card itself anyhow as I have found out the few weeks.

so the specs for Cable Card II do not need to go any further for the series 3 to ocme out. Seems like what is left for the series 3 is hardware cerification by cable labs and whoever and finishing and testing the software. No real idea how far along the software is, that seems to be the unknown effecting the timeline from what I have read.

Dan203 · 01-16-2006, 12:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HogarthNH

We've gotten more information out of products that never made it to market, even from TiVo.

We've also gotten press releases about products that never made it to market. So press releases don't mean squat either! In fact a press release doesn't guarantee a product coming to fruitation any more then a demo at CES does. The only time you can guarantee a product is going to be released is when the manufacturer actually announces it's availability. Until then there is always the possibility that it could get scrapped for whatever reason.

Dan

HogarthNH · 01-16-2006, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan203

The only time you can guarantee a product is going to be released is when the manufacturer actually announces it's availability. Until then there is always the possibility that it could get scrapped for whatever reason.

Dan:

Thank you for proving my point.
TiVo has not done so, and thus, I call shenanigans.

H

ZeoTiVo · 01-16-2006, 01:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HogarthNH

Dan:

Thank you for proving my point.
TiVo has not done so, and thus, I call shenanigans.

H

strawman argument - you need something real to back up such a counter claim
and saying well look they never announced Mac support and it has not happened is not real. They never announced flying monkeys or ATSC tuners on sereis 2 either.

TiVo has specifically stated via a representative charged to nake such statements at CES that the series 3 will be out second half of 2006. You need something concrete if you intend to counter that statement and not just look silly or paranoid or cynical.

HogarthNH · 01-16-2006, 01:54 PM

I don't think any of us are being very rational or sound in our arguments at this point.

Neither is TiVo ;-)
Oh, zing! (Yes, I know, a red herring, but at least I tried.)

Dan203 · 01-16-2006, 02:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HogarthNH

Thank you for proving my point.
TiVo has not done so, and thus, I call shenanigans.

You can't announce a product's availability until it's actually available, which for the S3 wont be for at least another 6 months. That's not "shenanigans" that's just the laws of the universe.

Would you prefer TiVo take a more Apple like approach and not show off anything until the day it's available? If so then fine, ignore the the demo at CES and wait for the actual thing.

Dan

jsmeeker · 01-16-2006, 02:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan203

Would you prefer TiVo take a more Apple like approach and not show off anything until the day it's available? If so then fine, ignore the the demo at CES and wait for the actual thing.

Dan

Hey, that could be cool. Apple fan boys lap that stuff up. Maybe the TiVo fan boys will too.

Dan203 · 01-16-2006, 02:21 PM

I prefer to have a little bit of anticipation myself.

Dan

jsmeeker · 01-16-2006, 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan203

I prefer to have a little bit of anticipation myself.

Dan

anticipate the announcement event!! Leading up to it, you discuss wild rumours.

KJW · 01-16-2006, 03:38 PM

I think this is Tivo's way of having its cake and eating it too. It gets the word out -- unofficially, of course -- that HD, dual tuner, cable card Tivos are coming, but can't be blamed if the final product is delayed or doesn't meet expectations because it was never "officially" announced. And its working. I was going to go with a cablevision DVR to get HD, but now I will wait until after the summer and see if Tivo can get its act together.

To be honest, this product should have been out a year ago. (Yes, I know, cable card standards not finalized. . . Tivo quality control. . . blah, blah, blah -- everyone else has HD DVRs out, Tivo should too, particularly if its wants to keep its reputation as an innovator and technological leader in the industry.)

Dan203 · 01-16-2006, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by KJW

everyone else has HD DVRs out, Tivo should too, particularly if its wants to keep its reputation as an innovator and technological leader in the industry.

Actually the only non-cable company supplied DVR on the market that supports both HD and CableCARD is produced by Sony. It has a single tuner (due to the CableCARD limitations) and an MSRP of $999.

Unfortunately the single tuner limitation of CableCARD, along with customer demand for the ability to record HD from cable, has kept TiVo from producing an HD standalone unit until now. In fact they showed off an ATSC only HD unit a few years ago at CES and it never ended up being produced because customers didn't want a unit that could only record HD from OTA.

Dan