What is the average life of a DirecTivo?

ntwrkd · 01-08-2006, 09:58 PM

I've been a D*sub for many years but started using DirecTivo's about 4+ years ago. I added Weaknees upgrades (extra HD's) to 2 of my Hughes HDVR2's. 3 hard drives failed in 4+ years (out of a possible 4). Anyone else have a similar experience? What is the average life expectancy of a Tivo HD? I say about 2 years? Maybe we can start a poll?

aphex187 · 01-08-2006, 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ntwrkd

I've been a D*sub for many years but started using DirecTivo's about 4+ years ago. I added Weaknees upgrades (extra HD's) to 2 of my Hughes HDVR2's. 3 hard drives failed in 4+ years (out of a possible 4). Anyone else have a similar experience? What is the average life expectancy of a Tivo HD? I say about 2 years? Maybe we can start a poll?

I just recently had to replace the drives in my Philips DSR60000 - they weren't failing, they just had a whine that I wanted to get rid of. They had put in just under 5 years.

HiDefGator · 01-08-2006, 10:09 PM

I suspect the biggest factor affecting hard drive life is operating temperature. Does your Tivo get good ventilation? Does the room it's in ever get hot? I know when we go on vacation in the summer we often turn off the AC, forgetting that the poor Tivo's are then trying to run in 95 degree rooms.

ntwrkd · 01-08-2006, 10:11 PM

The units get good ventilation, nothing on top or blocking the fan and have ups's attached.

Tracy RainH2o · 01-08-2006, 10:14 PM

I have had my first Tivo for three years with no problems. I recently changed out the HD for a much larger one.

I think the best bet for upgrading is to replace the original drive. If you add a new large drive to your original 2+ year old drive, you will be redoing it much sooner. As stated, the temp factor is a major cause of failure.

Dood · 01-08-2006, 10:50 PM

I'm on my 3rd in 3 years, you do the math

Pauli · 01-08-2006, 11:19 PM

IMO, adding a second drive to these units is unwise. These things run pretty hot with only a single, smaller drive. With a larger, 2nd drive it gets worse. Heat kills hard drives. I even added a "blowhole" to my single-drive upgraded unit to keep it cooler.

Dkerr24 · 01-09-2006, 06:48 AM

Another vote for not running 2 hard drives. Double the heat, double the load on the power supply, and of course double the noise. Not to mention if even one drive fails, the other drive is useless until reformatted and reloaded. And you're left with a guessing game of 'which drive is the bad one?'

TiVoSoFine · 01-09-2006, 09:29 AM

I have two SAT-T60's.

The first one: bought in 1/2001, unmodified. HD failed in late 2004. Replaced with a new 80GB HD, it's been running well since then. During the research (to change the HD), I found the most probable cause of the failure was the temperature. Both of mine were sitting on flat surface and the internal temperature was at mid 50 C.

Since then I have elevated both of them with wood blocks (really high tech) which leaves the vents open. They now run at mid 40 C.

The second one: bought in 5/2001, added 120GB second drive in early 2002. It's been running fine ever since.

My plan is: when they both die, I'll join the Hi-Def revolution. But they just keep chugging along...

wedgecon · 01-09-2006, 10:31 AM

Bought my SAT-T60 a little over 3 years ago. First thing I did was put in a 120GB drive, a more powerful fan and elevating the unit. I have not had a single issue and my temp is always in the 30's and 40's.

nhaigh · 01-09-2006, 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wedgecon

Bought my SAT-T60 a little over 3 years ago. First thing I did was put in a 120GB drive, a more powerful fan and elevating the unit. I have not had a single issue and my temp is always in the 30's and 40's.

My Philips DRS7000 ?? lasted two years before it failed, the hughes that repleced it lasted less tha a week and the huges that replaced that is not three montns old and still working.

My Sony SVR2000 (Series One SA TiVo) is now six years old and still working as well as the day I bought it.

RossoNeri · 01-09-2006, 11:02 AM

I've had two drives fail. Both were after power failures though. One was on a used HDDVR2 I bought from eBay and the other on an SD-DVR40 with a second drive (the original stock drive failed). Both were in the 10-14 month range since I started using them.

I have two other drives that are running okay after 8-10 months (although I don't want to jinx myself...).

I'll echo the recommendation on not using two drives (it caused about a 10 degree difference) and add that a UPS to protect against sudden power loss/power up is a good idea (as it is with any computer).

roamerr · 01-09-2006, 03:11 PM

I have one that is two years old. I had two others die within 6 months. Tivos eat hard drives -- that is what determines the life.... If one lasts 5 years that would be a great hard drive...

gtrogue · 01-09-2006, 04:30 PM

The shortest time a replacement drive in my DirecTivo's lasted was about 3 years.
The drive in my original 14 hr SA Tivo ran from '99 until '05.

sschwart · 01-09-2006, 05:51 PM

My SAT-T60 is almost 5 years... It's had 1 HDD failure, and that's it.

tbeckner · 01-09-2006, 07:09 PM

My SVR-2000 will soon be six years old, with two hard drives, one is the original OEM and the other is a Staples purchased retail red box 60GB Maxtor (that was on sale) that has been installed two months after the SVR-2000 was purchased and I still have had NO failures. Knock on Wood.

Three HDVR2s still running (bought when they first went on sale for $99), NO failures in any of them yet.

I never have had any major hard drive failures all these years on any devices, except when IBM and Maxtor (Quantum) where first screwing around with the PIXIE DUST drives, what a huge mistake that was. Those drive failures was just one of the contributing factors to IBM selling their hard drive business, in addition to their lack of capability to make it profitable. Never before did I or after have I had as much of a problem with hard drive failures, as I did with those first PIXIE DUST drives.

Dan Collins · 01-09-2006, 07:24 PM

Couple of points:

DirecTiVos, even under the best circumstances, present a hard drive with a harsh environment. Desktop hard drives were not designed for continuous duty cycle, and that is truer of newer drives than older ones. Therefore, it is not surprising to hear of 5 year old drives still going strong, and 2 year old drives failing.

Temperature also plays a part - the maximum rated operating temperature of most 3.5" drives is around 55°C. Many DirecTiVos (even with one drive) routinely approach 50°C. Personally, I have two Series 2 DirecTiVos with 2 drives, and 3 with only 1 drive. The hotest unit I have, a DSR7000, has only one drive (and it is an original TiVo drive). The coolest running unit has 2 drives, a WD 250GB drive and a WD 60GB drive. It is more a function of the heat produced by the particular drives than it is the number of drives installed.

I previously ran 3 Series 1 DirecTiVos for 4 years with only 1 drive failure. Drives are so cheap they are now disposable. The best bet is to hack your DirecTiVos so that you can backup your Season Passes and Wishlists, and use MRV to move recordings off a TiVo with a failing drive.

tbeckner · 01-09-2006, 08:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Collins

use MRV to move recordings off a TiVo with a failing drive.

I can't talk for other people, but I told my wife tonight that unless the Series 3 TiVo has MRV (there is a discussion that because of the HD DRM issues that the Series 3 might not have MRV) there is no way that I could buy into it.

I use MRV almost every day, mainly because I use my DVRs to record different material, the frontroom DVR records PBS (Frontline, NOVA, This Old House, etc), NFL and College Football games and other sports, Science channel programs, and HGTV programs, and Specials, and I use the one in the bedroom to record network series programs like CSI, Medium, Law & Order, House, Bones, 24, Surface, Lost, ER, Numbers, Desperate Housewifes, etc and some NFL and College football games that I can't record in the frontroom because of scheduling conflicts. And the third one is current being used my oldest daughter amd mostly contains her tastes, like ANIME and network shows like Alias.

But my viewing takes place where I am at when I get the time, so maybe I will watch a Science channel program or Football game in the bedroom, and a network series in the Frontroom. And without the flexability of MRV I would now be lost and I have only had it for about seven months and for the first two months I still attempted to record everything on both DVRs, which was totally impossible and would have been worst once football season started.

To me MRV is almost as important as the DVR, and without a doubt has made the DVR an even better video watching time shifting tool. I bet if more people had MRV they would understand the importance of it, kind of like the difference of having a DVR and not.

phoenix_one · 01-10-2006, 08:10 AM

I had a SAT-T60 since Dec 03. It already had a 120g harddrive and I added another one. Seagate Barracuda, temp hovers around 48-50C.

I have it raised about 3/4". Stock fan.

No problems whatsoever.

pudge44 · 01-10-2006, 08:19 AM

I have a DSR6000 that's going on 4 years. I replaced the fan in it during the first year because it was makingall sorts of weird noises. Just recently, I've noticed it's starting to get loud again, but haven't yet cracked it open to see if it's the fan or the hard drive.

I'm holding out to upgrade to HDTV, but I might bite the bullet and buy a replacement drive from WeakKnees.

newsposter · 01-10-2006, 01:22 PM

I've had poor luck with western digital drives. 3 yr old T60 here. Fried M/B and hard drive under warranty +60 bucks from me (power strip device long story). Then that drive was replaced by 2 80 gig WD...one went bad....got warranty replacement, put them in my PC and now i have 2-160s in the t60 plus their 14.95 3 yr warranty. After that is up, i'm switching brands of drives..but i've been very loyal to WD...maybe unjustifiable too.

Not sure the sony will function in 2 more years anyway lol

BeanMeScot · 01-10-2006, 02:24 PM

I've had VERY bad luck with drives. My first one in my SAT-T60 died at about 9 months in. I think the longest survivor was about 2 years. I have had 3 Directivos and replaced drives multiple times in each one. One was less than a year old but I could not get an RMA because it was a replacement for another short term survivor.

tbeckner · 01-10-2006, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BeanMeScot

I've had VERY bad luck with drives. My first one in my SAT-T60 died at about 9 months in. I think the longest survivor was about 2 years. I have had 3 Directivos and replaced drives multiple times in each one. One was less than a year old but I could not get an RMA because it was a replacement for another short term survivor.

Based upon that failure rate, you could be having spiking electrical problems. That is way beyond the norm in almost all cases. Have you contacted an electrician to check for grounding problems and circuit problems or could you have the devices installed somewhere where they are getting too hot?

Your failure rates are NOT anywhere close to normal, and there is very likely something in your environment and /or situation that is causing this type of problem.

The only time I had large amounts of hard drive failures is when IBM and Maxtor (Quantum) had just released the new PIXIE DUST drives.

Additional Note:

I am not a normal user, but my background is not the normal background of most of the posters on this forum, but it also may not be that far from the norm.

I current have ten computers here at home, 6 desktops and 4 servers, and earlier in 2005 I had four additional desktops at home, before my kids started moving away from home.

All of the desktops (up to ten) have two hard drives (twenty total), and the four servers have at least two hard drives and one server has four hard drives (ten total), and over the last eight years I have only had four hard drive failures out of thirty total hard drives in computers (most of which run 24/7/365) and those four failures where all PIXIE DUST IBM and Maxtor (Quantum) hard drives. I did have one other failure, a Maxtor 160GB that was less than thirty days old.

So in total, out of thirty hard drives in computers and five hard drives in TiVos, for a total of thirty-five hard drives, and not counting the four PIXIE DUST hard drives, I have only had one hard drive failure in eight years and it failed in the first thirty days (KNOCK ON WOOD).

I do use UPS (Uninterruptible Power Supplies) or surge protectors on all devices and I have had my ground checked in the last eight years.

nhaigh · 01-10-2006, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbeckner

To me MRV is almost as important as the DVR, and without a doubt has made the DVR an even better video watching time shifting tool. I bet if more people had MRV they would understand the importance of it, kind of like the difference of having a DVR and not.

I support this sentiment. MRV to me if more important than Dual Tuners or HD.

tbeckner · 01-10-2006, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhaigh

I support this sentiment. MRV to me if more important than Dual Tuners or HD.

But what is interesting, is that YOU CAN HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO. All you need are some pre-R10 Series 2 DirecTiVos and a little technical help to hack them and you can have dual tuners and MRV.

nhaigh · 01-10-2006, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tbeckner

But what is interesting, is that YOU CAN HAVE YOUR CAKE AND EAT IT TOO. All you need are some pre-R10 Series 2 DirecTiVos and a little technical help to hack them and you can have dual tuners and MRV.

I think if I didn't have to go to the S3 I'd probably be compelled to do that but currently I only have one DirecTiVo. To get another means commiting further to DirecTV and it is my intention to cancel the service the day my S3 is delivered.

tbeckner · 01-10-2006, 03:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nhaigh

I think if I didn't have to go to the S3 I'd probably be compelled to do that but currently I only have one DirecTiVo. To get another means commiting further to DirecTV and it is my intention to cancel the service the day my S3 is delivered.

I sure hope for all of us that the cable industry settles all of their infighting and gets the CableCard situation and the integration issues taken care of so the Series 3 can become a success. But if they don’t settle their difference, then we all will be left high and dry (like the Betamax/Blu-Ray and VHS/HD-DVD situation). I do see one advantage for Sony this time around; they have control of a lot of source material and understand why the Betamax failed, even though it was technically the best device.

jcricket · 01-10-2006, 03:02 PM

My original DirecTivo (Hughes GXCEBOT) lasted 3 years before the hard drive went out. Mine was kept in a reasonably well-vented enclosure, but I'm guessing the added heat didn't help. Consider I paid $0 ($100 rebate when I signed up with DirecTV), that's fine by me :-)

For those that are claiming the 2nd drive adds heat/drain you obviously haven't checked out the solutions from weaknees. With a 2nd drive installed in bracket they provide and the 2nd fan the Tivo's temperature is often 5 deg lower than stock 1 drive systems.

tbeckner · 01-10-2006, 03:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcricket

My original DirecTivo (Hughes GXCEBOT) lasted 3 years before the hard drive went out. Mine was kept in a reasonably well-vented enclosure, but I'm guessing the added heat didn't help. Consider I paid $0 ($100 rebate when I signed up with DirecTV), that's fine by me :-)

For those that are claiming the 2nd drive adds heat/drain you obviously haven't checked out the solutions from weaknees. With a 2nd drive installed in bracket they provide and the 2nd fan the Tivo's temperature is often 5 deg lower than stock 1 drive systems.

Great point about the Weaknees solution, it has additional cooling capability, which even in a single drive unit could pay off big time.

phoenix_one · 01-10-2006, 04:03 PM

An extremly sensitive device like TiVo should always be under the protection of an UPS.

Maybe that's the reason I have not had any problems with it.