CES product and programming announcements

[SpacemanSpiff]

Of course the BIG question is how many of these initiatives and products that are announced at CES actually make it into production and how many are just press releases to get potential customers hyped up, and potential competitors freaked out.

[tbeckner]

Originally Posted by lee espinoza

If you have a R-15 very good

Actually the "R15" will not support the PSP, based upon the current announcements. He might have a far better chance with a SA TiVo, because the SA TiVo supports the PSP, not any of the DirecTV DVRs.

[tbeckner]

Originally Posted by tivolocity

I'm just a little curious if the Windows MCE integration had anything to do with the absense of the HMC. Also, while I doubt there would ever be a Directv PCI card, I'm wondering if Windows MCE could support connecting to one or more Directv receivers via USB? In the perfect "Microsoft" home, if you could connect 4 HD receivers to Windows MCE, and then stream live and recorded content around the house, you could achieve the same result as the HMC. Which would let Directv off the hook for developing, and the even bigger issue of supporting, the networking component of the HMC.

The worst part of the Microsoft MCE announcement is that at this time you are going to have to buy XBOX 360s to stick all over the house to view the content from the MCE box. Greedy Microsoft jerks.

[tbeckner]

Originally Posted by lee espinoza

with a DIRECTV PC tuner will you still buy or get a HMC?

The only problem I see with the DirecTV PC tuner, is that is likely a year away, and if it is like the cablecard tuners, it will be USB connected and will require Windows Vista, which could also be a year away. In addition, the cablecard tuners will be OEM only until 2007, so you will have to buy a new PC from a supported hardware vendor to get one and it could likely be the same for the DirecTV tuner.

Don't take this the wrong way. I have been a DirecTV customer for over 11 years, but the announcements at this years CES appear to be VAPORWARE and are more in line with a Gorilla BEATING ITS CHEST, than anything of substance.

And what is even worst, since I have been in IT for over 33 years, have been building all of my own machines for the last eight years now, and being a loyal DirecTV customer for those 11 plus years, I have wanted a DirecTV tuner for as long as anybody in this forum could have.

Almost everything from the HD-DVD to the promised downloading of content are all promised in the hope of being the loudest thunder at the show to drown out the other guys and not actually deliver a currently working useful product.

Even Microsoft was pounding their chest and even pounding it for DirecTV, likely because they where promised some big bucks to do so. Microsoft did not release detailed specification nor did they demonstrate a working product that tied into DirecTV, just vague wave the arms concepts and even vaguer promises.

I plan on disregarding most of what has been promised at CES 2006 and I will wait to get excited when the actual working products have been launched.

This “Vaporware” with all of its vague promises and arm waving and NO real actual working prototypes is just too insane to take seriously.

Although, in concept I am somewhat surprised to see that at least in concept, the new Series 3 SA TiVo will have an Ethernet connection and will support eSATA, both of which I wish the other lame DVRs would have supported.

Additional Edit:

I would say that DirecTV might have dropped the HMC in favor of connecting to a Microsoft MCE server. Although I highly doubt that the current requirement that the outlying clients currently have to be XBOX 360s will fly in a DVR centric client/server environment.

There is no doubt that if the requirement continues to be that the clients have to be XBOX 360s to receive video feeds from a MCE server, I will never buy into that WORLD (a very Greedy Microsoft World), especially since the XBOX 360 is SO EXPENSIVE. The clients need to be priced no more than $199 to make that work for me.

Let’s face it, Bill Gates would not have a problem affording a $299 to $399 XBOX 360s as a client to a $1,500 to $2,000 MCE server, but I do.

[ddobson]

Originally Posted by Kanyon71

I think they love money more then they love us customers

But since they can't have money without the customers, perhaps they have realized they do need to love us..... just a little.

[tbeckner]

Originally Posted by dswallow

Creating something "On Demand" for satellite delivered services borders on false advertising as far as I'm concerned; it's a ridiculous concept. It's not in any manner "on demand"; it's "delivered and recorded whether you want it or not".

The whole paradigm sucks and annoys me.

It can never offer a real library "on demand"; it's always going to be limited to some very small amount of material. The day I can view any episode of any series ever produced, I'll consider it "on demand"; but what is it right now at best? 60 hours of pre-selected stuff to choose from?

It's just like that Starz experiment. Useless. Wasteful. Pointless. And it takes away attention from more important matters.

There we go... that's why it exists... a marketing datapoint that they can point to in comparisons, as long as you don't delve too deeply.

I agree with you completely, but then again, people bought into the Starz experiment.

And if a person is already on DirecTV and hasn't had a chance to use real OnDemand, then they will likely NOT UNDERSTAND. It is just like attempting to tell someone in the early days of TiVo what a TiVo was. Until they have experienced true OnDemand, most people have a ZERO UNDERSTANDING of what true OnDemand actually is.

But believe it or not, the DirecTV people understand what a THREAT real OnDemand is, so they had to do something, and within the limits of their broadcast capability, the only thing they could do was what they did, a poor man's OnDemand.

I really doubt that the FAKE OnDemand on the "R15" or the "HR20" will be able to change the DirecTV churn rate very much, and once people start to experience true OnDemand in the cable/FIOS/IPTV world and actually show their DirecTV neighbors what true OnDemand is (Verizon currently with 7,000+ hours of OnDemand video), then the war will be over.

I have been waving my arms this last fall, trying to point out that all this other junk is just that junk, and the true battle will happen on the OnDemand battlefield, and that the one-way limited bandwidth video delivery services like DirecTV "DO NOT HAVE A CHANCE" to even win even a small battle, little alone the ultimate war.

The "My VOD" on the "R15" and likely the "HR20" is just a poor example of an attempt of plugging the dike.

[tbh999]

Originally Posted by ebonovic

Agreeing with Doug...

I haven't seen a Blue Screen of Death since the introduction of Windows XP....

Well, I have (about once a year or so). But I agree it's much better than it used to be.

[ebonovic]

XBOX360 is expensive... yes... but hey what do you expect now adays...

The XBOX360 is intresting as a "remote" device for the MCE and possible the DVR.
But I like the angle of being able to pull recordings from my MCE System on the newer DVRs.

This opens the door big time for me, as with a CableCard for the MCE, I could have the best of both worlds... I could "gulp" get a small package from Comcast to get the few HD networks that they have exclusive, hook those to the MCE, and then use my R15/HR20 around the house to view that programming.

I don't see myself watching much via the XBOX360... Since if I have an HDTV hooked to it, and HD tuner is not going to be very far behind it.

[tivolocity]

Windows Media Center Extenders currently exist. I'm sure they'll be coming out with HD versions. Now the pricing may not be that much different than an XBOX 360. But, if people are that opposed to an XBOX, I'm sure there will be options.

[tivolocity]

Originally Posted by ebonovic

This opens the door big time for me, as with a CableCard for the MCE, I could have the best of both worlds... I could "gulp" get a small package from Comcast to get the few HD networks that they have exclusive, hook those to the MCE, and then use my R15/HR20 around the house to view that programming.

I'm with Earl. A PC Tuner and MCE integration opens up all kinds of options. My personal preferred architecture has always been to have a central server and set top boxes.

[Kanyon71]

Maybe I am missing something here but I never saw anything where MS said you must buy an Xbox 360 and only the 360 to work as an extender. From what I saw you can use that, (I think there is even a kit for the original Xbox out there), The DirecTV DVR, the extenders from other companies are also out there. Sorry but that just sounds like talkof someone who doesn't like MS and just wants to bash them. I am FAR from an MS fan boy but unless they say that you can ONLY use the 360 I see no reason to bash them.

[ebonovic]

I "think" the 360 is the only HD xtender "right now" for MCE.

There are certainly other extenders out there.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsxp/m...r/default.mspx

[TheSlacker]

Originally Posted by nhaigh

... The PVR software may be perfect but it still may fall victim to whatever else has been added to the MCE box. The platform is far to open to be a relied upon CE device.

WindowsXP and WindowsCE (PocketPC, Windows Mobile, or whatever they're calling it these days) are already in use in many consumer electronics. Just look at the new XBOX 360. I haven't had any problems so far, and it is very advanced. Also, many car navigation and control systems are running an auto specific version of Windows (I think Honda is one of Microsoft's customers).

[dswallow]

Originally Posted by TheSlacker

WindowsXP and WindowsCE (PocketPC, Windows Mobile, or whatever they're calling it these days) are already in use in many consumer electronics. Just look at the new XBOX 360. I haven't had any problems so far, and it is very advanced. Also, many car navigation and control systems are running an auto specific version of Windows (I think Honda is one of Microsoft's customers).

The computer attached to stress testing equipment was running Windows.

The computers in the operating room that provided info from all the sensors and cameras where I had a Cardiac Catheterization procedure were running Windows.

Windows, Windows, Everywhere.

[nhaigh]

Originally Posted by dswallow

The computer attached to stress testing equipment was running Windows.

The computers in the operating room that provided info from all the sensors and cameras where I had a Cardiac Catheterization procedure were running Windows.

Windows, Windows, Everywhere.

Yes, but we're talking about the risk of not recording Lost

[tbeckner]

Originally Posted by Kanyon71

Maybe I am missing something here but I never saw anything where MS said you must buy an Xbox 360 and only the 360 to work as an extender. From what I saw you can use that, (I think there is even a kit for the original Xbox out there), The DirecTV DVR, the extenders from other companies are also out there. Sorry but that just sounds like talkof someone who doesn't like MS and just wants to bash them. I am FAR from an MS fan boy but unless they say that you can ONLY use the 360 I see no reason to bash them.

As Earl said in the post right below your post I quoted above, the XBOX 360 is the only HD extender at the moment.

And as far as being a MS basher, well I am a MS Partner, so I do know where my bread is buttered.

I do think it is crazy to spend that type of money to view content on TV's. If I had only one TV, then it wouldn't be so important, but with three TV's or more it starts to get expensive.

Actually, I am excited that after 11 plus years I will finally get a chance to have a PC tuner for DirecTV, but if you didn't notice, there is no release date, there are no specifications, and there is no working prototype, just PURE VAPORWARE. And to all of that you have to wait for a MCE version of Vista. It could be more than a year and half (mid 2007), and another CES before we get sometime. All of this is why I am not going to get excited about something that is no more than SMOKE and MIRRORS.

[tbeckner]

Originally Posted by dswallow

The computer attached to stress testing equipment was running Windows.

The computers in the operating room that provided info from all the sensors and cameras where I had a Cardiac Catheterization procedure were running Windows.

Windows, Windows, Everywhere.

Now that is SCARY!

[tivolocity]

This is slightly outside the scope of this forum, but here's a look at the first cablecard PC tuner http://anandtech.com/tradeshows/showdoc.aspx?i=2662&p=2

[ebonovic]

With Microsoft Releasing Media Center to OEMs now... It is not to hard to get a higher powered PC up and running with the Media Center... (aka.. It is on my list of things to do the next couple weekends)

So, sure Vista might be a few quarters away, but Media Center (as it is today) is certainly here.

I would love to have a single PC that record everything.. that would be nice... but as you said that is still at least a good year if not 2 away from happening... (could you see a Media PC that had DirecTV, Dish (if they created one), Cable-Co's (if you happen to have more then one... you could do it), OTA, squeeze in a 16ft dish.....

NICE.... Okay, I have to stop drooling now.

[tbeckner]

Originally Posted by ebonovic

With Microsoft Releasing Media Center to OEMs now... It is not to hard to get a higher powered PC up and running with the Media Center... (aka.. It is on my list of things to do the next couple weekends)

So, sure Vista might be a few quarters away, but Media Center (as it is today) is certainly here.

I would love to have a single PC that record everything.. that would be nice... but as you said that is still at least a good year if not 2 away from happening... (could you see a Media PC that had DirecTV, Dish (if they created one), Cable-Co's (if you happen to have more then one... you could do it), OTA, squeeze in a 16ft dish.....

NICE.... Okay, I have to stop drooling now.

Agreed it is exciting, but then again, the current MCE will not run these tuners and these tuners (CableCard (but at least there where CableCard prototypes available) or DirecTV) are at least a year or two away.

I would say that you get excited about building a MCE box at this time next year, after a MCE version of Vista has been released and maybe by then you can buy a NON-OEM CableCard tuner.

Currently this is ALL PURE VAPORWARE, with the DirecTV tuner even further out than the CableCard tuners.

[ebonovic]

I agree.... This is getting scary, that we are agreeing so much....

[ericlhyman]

What does a 250GB SATA hard drive currently retail for? Will this be a plug and play item that does not require any software hacking?

[tbeckner]

Originally Posted by ericlhyman

What does a 250GB SATA hard drive currently retail for? Will this be a plug and play item that does not require any software hacking?

Actually you can buy an eSATA external enclosure for about $50 and buy a SATA drive and install it, although the last time I checked the enclosures, they where limited to 400GB.

So the bare minimum cost is $50 for the enclosure and the current cost of a 250GB SATA internal drive, which is about $98 (which includes shipping).

Vantec has a new enclosure that has an eSATA and a USB 2.0 interface, but it is still COMING.

Seagate announced at CES, an eSATA 500GB Hard Drive, but I have no idea what it costs or when it will be released.

[TheRatPatrol]

Ok, stupid question time, but what does MCE stand for? Thanks.

[lee espinoza]

Originally Posted by theratpatrol

Ok, stupid question time, but what does MCE stand for? Thanks.

Media Center Edition

[tbeckner]

Originally Posted by lee espinoza

Media Center Edition

MCE = Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005

[zlt1]

Originally Posted by theratpatrol

Everyone except Tivo.

Maybe they'll bring back MS Ultimate TV. DOH, did I say that here in Tivo form, I'm sorry.

Well if DTV releases a PC CARD DTV, what would prevent TiVo from building a one off box of the S3 that has a slot for the (user added??) DTV PC Card?

I guess I am making an assumption that there will be an (open/free?) api for the DTV PC Card

[dswallow]

Originally Posted by zlt1

I guess I am making an assumption that there will be an (open/free?) api for the DTV PC Card

Well, the issue will be appropriate drivers for the card for the OS TiVo uses. But realisitically, even with DirecTV having gone with NDS, there's no reason DirecTV wouldn't provide what's needed to create the necessary drivers to a developer like TiVo who has a previous relationship with DirecTV. The main thing would be if a small company like TiVo would want to create and support such a device for direct sale.

[Rob00GT]

I'm afraid I've allowed myself to get excited about all the "news" from DirecTV. The realist in me agrees with most of you that a PCI tuner card is at LEAST 18 months away. That just sucks... especially when "free to air" PCI cards are available right now.

When it does come out it will probably lack an onboard MPEG chip and rely on software and the computer's CPU to process the signals. That would be just about par for the course!

[jfh3]

Originally Posted by Rob00GT

I'm afraid I've allowed myself to get excited about all the "news" from DirecTV. The realist in me agrees with most of you that a PCI tuner card is at LEAST 18 months away.

Ditto. DirecTV seems to have forgotten that their first priority should be providing top quality programming. Not sure I even want a PC tuner for DTV, certainly not if I can't use it to get true HD programming and not a handful of HDlite channels.