New Hard Drive causes TIVO failure. Please Help.

waityn4jc · 01-01-2006, 06:11 PM

First let me say, I have read through about 30 threads and have not found my exact error yet and was needing some help. If you know of a thread that addresses my following issue please let me know and I will read it.

I recently purchased a TIVO TCD540040 and wanted to upgrade drive. I already owned a Western Digital Caviar 120GB so I decided to use it. I am replacing the original TIVO drive to keep as a backup.

I have run through both Hindale's and Weaknees' upgrade instructions and continue to end with the same error. After running MFS tools 2.0 and installing the new Hard drive into my TIVO, the TIVO will not turn on at all. I do not get the "Welcome" or "Almost there" screen. All the TV shows is a black screen with random jumping white lines every now and then. The case fan does not spin. The hard drive does not spin up. Any idea what I might have done wrong or even might need to do?

I can then return the old hard drive back into the TIVO and everything is fine. I have run full Western Digital diagnostics on the drive and it reports nothing wrong. I have fully reformatted the drive since and reinstalled XP and it runs fine.

Using the upgrade instructions I have tried both options of either "make copy and lose recordings" and the option that is supposed to keep all my recordings. During both methods I do not get any error messages from MFS tools and it reads the size of both my drives correctly.

I am knowledgeable of the insides of computer so I understand jumper settings. I do not know anything about linux so I do not know any other options to run while in MFS tools.

In the past I have used this Western Digital drive for both Linux and XP and it worked fine for both. The only thing I can even think of to try that I have not yet is to run Western Digitals tool that writes 0's on the entire drive, but I have no idea if that would help at all.

Please if you have any advice or if you know of a thread that addresses this issue, please let me know. Thanks in advance.

funtoupgrade · 01-01-2006, 07:33 PM

You indicate you are knowledgeable about jumper settings but it sure sounds like a jumper problem. I then presume you are not using a jumper on your WD drive and it still does not work correct? Also make sure none of the drive pins has inadvertantely bent over.

waityn4jc · 01-01-2006, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by funtoupgrade

You indicate you are knowledgeable about jumper settings but it sure sounds like a jumper problem.

Western Digital drives are unique in their jumper settings in that they have "Master with a slave." I have tried the three following settings No Jumper (which is master alone), Master with a slave, and cable select. I get the exact same result no matter which jumper I put it on. The drive reads fine as a Master alone and with cable select in my desktop. No pins are bent over.

Are there any file system or formatting that could offer better results or should that not matter at all? Thanks for helping with this and I greatly appreciate any further assistance.

Steven

waityn4jc · 01-01-2006, 08:16 PM

Are certain drives not compatible with TIVO, could that be the problem? I mean I have always thought hard drives are hard drives, but I am also very new to TIVO. Thanks.

prospect60 · 01-01-2006, 08:39 PM

I've used several WD Caviar drives (as well as Seagate, Hitachi, IBM, and Maxtor) in TIVO before without problems with any of them. If the drive isn't even spinning up while in the TIVO, but OK in your computer then it sounds like a connector problem either with the Molex Power Cable or IDE cable -- assuming the power cable if you don't hear it spin up.

waityn4jc · 01-01-2006, 09:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by prospect60

If the drive isn't even spinning up while in the TIVO, but OK in your computer then it sounds like a connector problem either with the Molex Power Cable or IDE cable -- assuming the power cable if you don't hear it spin up.

The only reason I think that isn't the case is that the original drive still works fine. Since my WD drive has been used many times in the past for other purposes, is there any prep I need to do to it to make it TIVO compatible?

When the WD drive is in the TIVO and I power up the TIVO it acts a little jumpy. Perhaps like the drive wants to fire, and the case fan kind of jiggles like it is getting mili-seconds of power.

I hope someone can help me with this. Thanks for all the help so far.

funtoupgrade · 01-01-2006, 10:03 PM

When you image the drive from a backup image the drive is erased and prepped by the software so there is nothing else to do - just make sure you don't stick it back into the computer and look at it with Windows or it will never work in TiVo. I also have used all the various manufacturer's drives and have never encountered the problem. Any chance you have another drive or could borrow one just to confirm your backup/image process is ok?

Dan Collins · 01-01-2006, 10:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waityn4jc

...Since my WD drive has been used many times in the past for other purposes...

...the case fan kind of jiggles like it is getting mili-seconds of power....

This sounds like a power supply issue - how old is the drive? What model number? Could it be consuming too much power when trying to spin up?

HomeUser · 01-01-2006, 11:04 PM

Just a thought, From what you describe if the drive is spinning up and down you might of discovered a pending power supply failure the original drive may work ok because it is drawing less power.

Just to cover all bases what is the command syntax that you used to copy/expand the drive.

waityn4jc · 01-02-2006, 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomeUser

Just to cover all bases what is the command syntax that you used to copy/expand the drive.

I have tried three different commands: (Always with TIVO original as secondary master, CD as 2nd slave, and WD as primary master)

2 trying to save recordings:
mfsbackup -Tao - /dev/hdc | mfsrestore -s 127 -xzpi - /dev/hda
mfsbackup -Tao - /dev/hdc | mfsrestore -s 127 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/hda

1 losing recordings:
mfsbackup -f 9999 -so - /dev/hdc | mfsrestore -s 127 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/hda

Weaknees adds the "-r 4" where Hinsdale's does not have it. If I ever get this thing working, which is preferred and what is the difference?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Collins

This sounds like a power supply issue - how old is the drive? What model number? Could it be consuming too much power when trying to spin up?

Western Digital Caviar (Model: WD1200JB-00CRA1) Made: May 2002
Not sure if this will help but written on the WD it says 5VDC---0.80A 12VDC---0.45A
Here is a web address for the specs: http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc....ted=1037222945

Quote:

Originally Posted by funtoupgrade

just make sure you don't stick it back into the computer and look at it with Windows or it will never work in TiVo....Any chance you have another drive or could borrow one just to confirm your backup/image process is ok?

I do have another drive and could give it a shot, it is only a 40GB so in the end it is not what I want but I see it will help the testing process.
Thank you so much for your help. I hope its not the power supply about to fail.

JamieP · 01-02-2006, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waityn4jc

I have tried three different commands: (Always with TIVO original as secondary master, CD as 2nd slave, and WD as primary master)
....

Try the WD drive in another position -- for example, primary slave. Some tivo boot iso's do funny things (byte swap?) on the primary master drive.

waityn4jc · 01-02-2006, 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamieP

Try the WD drive in another position -- for example, primary slave. Some tivo boot iso's do funny things (byte swap?) on the primary master drive.

I am not really sure how what you are talking about could be of any benefit. Those are the positions while on the computer, not in the TIVO. Are you saying to set the WD as slave while in the TIVO when it is a single drive?

JamieP · 01-02-2006, 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waityn4jc

I am not really sure how what you are talking about could be of any benefit. Those are the positions while on the computer, not in the TIVO. Are you saying to set the WD as slave while in the TIVO when it is a single drive?

No. I'm saying to do that when it is in the PC. The issue is that some of the tivo upgrade boot CD's do something "special" with /dev/hda (primary master). Something special you don't want. I offer no guarantees, but it might be the issue.

Feel free to ignore my advice if you don't believe it could possibly be of any benefit.

waityn4jc · 01-02-2006, 12:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JamieP

No. I'm saying to do that when it is in the PC. The issue is that some of the tivo upgrade boot CD's do something "special" with /dev/hda (primary master). Something special you don't want. I offer no guarantees, but it might be the issue.

Feel free to ignore my advice if you don't believe it could possibly be of any benefit.

Man, I feel like I know nothing about TIVO's now, so I am willing to try anything.

Dan Collins · 01-02-2006, 12:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by waityn4jc

...Western Digital Caviar (Model: WD1200JB-00CRA1) Made: May 2002
Not sure if this will help but written on the WD it says 5VDC---0.80A 12VDC---0.45A
Here is a web address for the specs: http://wdc.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/wdc....ted=1037222945...

The key value from the specs is the spin-up specs:

Spinup 1.3 A (max) (12 V) 650 mA (5V) 19.0 W (Total power dissipation)

Which is not excessive (Maxtor Quickviews draw about 50% more), so power is not the problem. Are you using any power splitters? Have you tried a new 80 wire IDE cable? (Grasping at straws here.)

HomeUser · 01-02-2006, 12:28 PM

If the drive and the fan are cycling up and down it has to be a Power Supply problem. The power specs on the drive look fine and should work in the TiVo that is why I think the power supply is about to fail or possibly the drive could be out of tolerance. You are not even getting the first screen you get that even if the drive is missing.
Check the Power supply for bulging or leaking caps (the tall cylinders).

Oh and for the -r 4 that option is only needed for drives larger then 200G

JamieP · 01-02-2006, 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomeUser

If the drive and the fan are cycling up and down it has to be a Power Supply problem. The power specs on the drive look fine and should work in the TiVo that is why I think the power supply is about to fail or possibly the drive could be out of tolerance. You are not even getting the first screen you get that even if the drive is missing.

I agree. Ignore my earlier suggestion. If you're not even getting the "Powering up" message on the screen, and the drive isn't spinning up, it's a hardware problem, not software.

waityn4jc · 01-02-2006, 01:16 PM

Ok, I went ahead and tried something crazy to test this thing out. First I tried to use a different drive but my only other EIDE drive is 40 GB and apparently my TIVO drive was 40.1 or something because it was a little bigger than mine. Anyhow, onto the crazy thing I tried.

Before reading the last three replies I too was starting to decide it had to be power issues. So, I took my TIVO and set it up next to my computer. I POWERED my WD drive from my computer but plugged the EIDE wire to my TIVO. TIVO powered up fine! I guess it might not be as crazy as I felt it was, but it sure felt nuts. With this info, should I assume its the TIVO power supply or the WD drive wanting too much power? I know the specs on the drive say it should not be it, but is it possible for a drive to have an error causing too much power consumption? I have run the extensive WD diagnostics on the drive and no errors were reported but I think that only tests the surface. Is there any way to test a drives power consumption on Spin-UP?

Quote:

Originally Posted by HomeUser

Check the Power supply for bulging or leaking caps (the tall cylinders).

I did my best to check for bulging tall things but I did not see any, however I wouldn't have a clue what they should look like or exactly which cylinders to look at. I do understand which board is the power supply but that's the extent of my knowledge.

Any advise on which steps I should take forward? Thank you so much for your help so far.

HomeUser · 01-02-2006, 01:36 PM

The caps sometimes show signs of failure they may leak a white or gray powder or the tops may bulge most of the electronic caps have a grove cut in the top allowing for some expansion any way if you are not familiar with the Power Supply you probably don't want to get too involved there can be in excess of 600V charge on some of the caps even when the AC cord is unplugged.

Check the drive for heat usually the excessive power gets converted into heat.
I don't know of any easy way to verify the PS other then try a different drive.

You can get a replacement Power Supply form WeakNees

GBL · 01-02-2006, 02:01 PM

You could try and see if the TiVo powers up your other spare 40GB drive - if it does, that makes it more likely that the WD drive is out of specs.

Dan Collins · 01-02-2006, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GBL

You could try and see if the TiVo powers up your other spare 40GB drive - if it does, that makes it more likely that the WD drive is out of specs.

He says the TiVo works fine with the original drive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by waityn4jc

....I can then return the old hard drive back into the TIVO and everything is fine....

This is why I asked about the specs on the 120GB drive in the first place.

It might be both an out of spec drive AND a marginal power supply.

patonenow · 01-02-2006, 03:32 PM

That test you tried on the computer to tivo makes sense to me. Some computers (compaq comes to mind for one) used a "special" wire that automatically told the computer what to use regardless of the manual slave,master etc. settings. So perhaps if it works as you said that way you could try then getting that same type wire and use in the tivo. Otherwise suspect a soon to fail power supply.

waityn4jc · 01-03-2006, 08:49 AM

Thank you all for your help. I guess I presume my problem to be the hard drive so I guess I will have to get a new one. If I still had an old computer power supply I could just plug it up next to the TIVO but I don't anymore. It would have to have been an old one that controlled the boot up of the machine and not controlled by the motherboard. Anyhow, any advise on which size/cost/model is the best and most cost effective? Unless someone has a 120GB+ drive sitting around they do not need anymore. Thanks again for the help.

waityn4jc · 01-03-2006, 04:39 PM

In case ya'll are wondering, it was the hard drive was out of spec. I now have my TIVO running two 40GB drives. Not the recording space I want, but it will have to do for now. Perhaps I will get another drive later.

Anyone got great advise on hard drives and where to get them? What is the most cost effective size today?
Do buffers matter at all in TIVO?

HomeUser · 01-03-2006, 04:56 PM

You could support the sponsors of this forum they even have preloaded drives you can drop in. I will recommend WeakNees http://www.weaknees.com/upgrades.php Or check the sunday ads, BestBuy, Campus, CircuitCity There seems to always be one on sale 250G or 300G seems to be the price break point ($/Gig) ... There are many online stores NewEGG.com TigerDirect.com Do you know about http://www.pricewatch.com/ ?

The most basic EIDE (PATA) Drive will do buffer size is not a concern.