Hard Drive Stuffed? Guidance?

einstein · 12-27-2005, 08:21 AM

I believe my Tivo's hard drive has died, after power-up (plugging in the AC cable), I get the Welcome - Power-up on the TV, the hard drive drive-spins, sounds like there's a marble running around inside, and then the Tivo resets to Welcome - Power-up on the TV, it does this approx 3 times, and then nothing. When I plug in my Tivo now, I get nothing, is the "Welcome Power-Up" read from the hard drive?

Is it safe to assume the hard drive is dead, I checked all the cables, and tested the voltages on the power supply, and all the voltages appear to be there.

The tivo hard drive light flashes, but doesn't spin-up, which makes me believe it's dead, if I use another hard drive (not tivo configured), this drives spins up.

Tivo Green Status LED and FAN always start-up.

This is an original Tivo not modded, purchased when they first arrived in the UK in Sept/Oct (long time ago). I don't know what Tivo version is on it 2.5.5 or 2.5.5a.

Is they any point in installing in a PC and running Maxtor tools?

iankb · 12-27-2005, 08:43 AM

The voltages from the TiVo PSU are very load-dependent. You can't really check the voltages unless the PSU is fully-connected.

blindlemon · 12-27-2005, 09:02 AM

It sounds like a dead drive.

If another drive spins up then it's unlikely to be a PSU problem. A quick check of the drive in your PC with PowerMax or Hitachi's DFT should confirm the diagnosis - although if it's a Quantum or Maxtor drive you will need to unlock it with DiskUtil (assuming it spins up in your PC) before you can properly test it.

einstein · 12-27-2005, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by iankb

The voltages from the TiVo PSU are very load-dependent. You can't really check the voltages unless the PSU is fully-connected.

Checked with Fluke DC Clamp Meter, so no need to disconnect the hard drives and cables!

einstein · 12-27-2005, 09:26 AM

Is the Welcome message displayed from "BIOS" or hard drive?

blindlemon · 12-27-2005, 12:26 PM

The welcome message is displayed by the TiVo's rudimentary BIOS if it detects a hard drive it can spin up. You should have seen the message when you tried your non-TiVo drive.

einstein · 12-27-2005, 05:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindlemon

The welcome message is displayed by the TiVo's rudimentary BIOS if it detects a hard drive it can spin up. You should have seen the message when you tried your non-TiVo drive.

I've tested the hard drive in my PC, it powers-up and spins, recognised by PC, and with Maxtor PowerDiags 3 & 4, and completeted the 90 seconds test (quick test) and it confirms the drive is okay.

I've ordered a replacement power supply, as the Quantum causes the Tivo to reset, maybe the Seagate drive I have uses less current, and it can spin-up. I needed some new remote controls anyway.

blindlemon · 12-27-2005, 05:23 PM

Sounds like good news.

However, the 90 second test doesn't do that much, so while you have the drive out you might as well run the advanced test to check the integrity of the whole drive.

einstein · 12-27-2005, 06:29 PM

thanks, I'll give the advanced test a go, I've just been recovering my PC after a Norton 2006 disaster!

But the drive spins-up, which is more than it does in Tivo, I think the psu might have been on the way out, because it's been very lazy, you plug the Tivo in somedays, and it takes a few minutes to come to life!

einstein · 01-04-2006, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindlemon

Sounds like good news.

However, the 90 second test doesn't do that much, so while you have the drive out you might as well run the advanced test to check the integrity of the whole drive.

Okay back with more results, suspecting that the Tivo drive does not spin up in the Tivo, i) I cannot hear it or feel the gyro motion if you move the hard drive slightly, I suspected the power supply was at fault, no great loss, as a replacement psu is always worth having. I've replaced the psu, and the Tivo started into life once and once only, confirming that at least the hard drive may be okay.

I've just completed the PowerMax Diags Advanced Long Test and it completes with no errors on a PC, (I didn't run the unlock program, do I need to do this?) also the drive spins up when connected to the PSU, but not ide cable connected.

If I connect the Tivo hard drive in the Tivo to the power cable, the drive does not spin up.

If I connect a 40GB Seagate hard drive to the power cable in the Tivo, this hard drive powers-up, any one know why this is, all the Tivo hard drive does is flash its data light a few times.

This is just a standard hard drive, I would have thought it should spin-up when connected to a power supply as in a PC, these are not scsi drives which have a spin-up command, so I'm confused here.

Don't have a TV in the garage where I'm testing, so cannot view any output on the Tivo screen.

I going to use the cables from the Tivo on the PC, with Tivo hard drive, and see if the cables are the issue.

Failing that I've got an image I'll put on this spare 40GB Seagate, and see If I can bring this Tivo back to life.

Some more information, this Tivo unit, may have been hit by a voltage surge, that has killed the modem, as the modem stop working after a lighting storm!

Any one have replacement Tivo system board?

blindlemon · 01-04-2006, 05:18 PM

Hmmm,

I've seen a Quantum drive get in a similar state to this. Don't know what caused it, but the drive would only spin up if a broken "B" drive was connected to the same power rail. I wasn't able to fix it.

I would suggest that if you can make a backup of it in a PC, now is the time to do it.

einstein · 01-04-2006, 05:26 PM

okay, good advice, do you think I need to Unlock it on the PC, and run the test again?

If I could be a pain in the arse, could you point me to a url where I can download an iso image of the tools, it's been a while, since I blessed drives!

blindlemon · 01-04-2006, 05:37 PM

If it's a Quantum then it will be locked. Use DiskUtil to unlock it.

Blessing is a bit old hat these days. MFSTools 2.0 is the tool of choice and usage is fully described in the Hinsdale guide. If you are configuring a drive > 120GB the use the LBA48 version of the MFSTools CD rather than the one linked to by Hinsdale, specify a swapsize the same in mb as your drive is in GB (for future expansion) and run copykern choosing kernel option 1 afterwards to copy the LBA48 kernel and initialise the big swap.

Kissxofxdeath · 01-05-2006, 08:38 AM

Hi.
I am having some problems. Apologies but Im a bit of technophobe so "noddy" language replies would be much appreciated.
I have a standard unmodified basic TiVo. At the moment all I am getting is a blue screen. I can still watch previously recorded stuff so I hope that means the hard drive is ok. Nothing new is being recorded and the link between the TiVo and the cable box is the source of the problem I think. I tried taking out the SCART lead and turning it round. I rang TiVo and they took me through a Guided Restart which failed. I am able to get my (analogue) cable on non-AV channels and I can change channels on the cable box manually. Initially, the TiVo handset was still changing channels even though it was a blue screen but after the guided set-up that stopped working as well.
Thanks for any suggestions.
I should mention that the TiVo people suggested that the RF (whatever that means) signal might not be being received by TiVO. Any ideas?
KOD

AMc · 01-05-2006, 09:27 AM

(I don't think your problem is in anyway related so a fresh thread would be better but perhaps a newbie isn't allowed to post new threads - can't remember).

If you press Aux on the Tivo remote do you get a picture from cable?

If you do this would indicate a problem in the Tivo. Try connecting the cable direct to your TV.

If you don't then it suggests a problem with the SCART lead or RF lead between the cable box and Tivo. The SCART lead or RF lead between the Tivo and TV is OK because you can see your recordings so don't mess with that.

einstein · 01-05-2006, 04:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindlemon

If it's a Quantum then it will be locked. Use DiskUtil to unlock it.

Blessing is a bit old hat these days. MFSTools 2.0 is the tool of choice and usage is fully described in the Hinsdale guide. If you are configuring a drive > 120GB the use the LBA48 version of the MFSTools CD rather than the one linked to by Hinsdale, specify a swapsize the same in mb as your drive is in GB (for future expansion) and run copykern choosing kernel option 1 afterwards to copy the LBA48 kernel and initialise the big swap.

Thanks for your help, I browsed the web and downloaded mfstool2 to make a backup and discovered this:-

I can see clearly from this, as I know a little Linux, there is obviosuly a problem with the Tivo hard drive and partitions, as I would expect there to be three partitions (I think!).

Would you agree?

and if I try mfstools to backup the drive, a get a screen full of garbage and it hangs! Certainly doesn't give me any prompt after scanning drive.

Rob Nespor Bellis · 01-05-2006, 05:02 PM

That message is quite normal, the TiVo disk is byteswapped so that is why the MFStools boot CD sees 9214 rather than 1492.

If you boot using one of the other TiVo boot CD's which normally byte swap hdb,hdc and hdd you will get a listing of the partitions available.

What error messages are you getting from MFStools? What is the backup command you are using?

Rgds,

R.

einstein · 01-05-2006, 05:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Nespor Bellis

That message is quite normal, the TiVo disk is byteswapped so that is why the MFStools boot CD sees 9214 rather than 1492.

If you boot using one of the other TiVo boot CD's which normally byte swap hdb,hdc and hdd you will get a listing of the partitions available.

What error messages are you getting from MFStools? What is the backup command you are using?

Rgds,

R.

from the mkfstools:-

For a single drive TiVo (Any):

# mfsbackup –6so /mnt/dos/tivo.bak /dev/hdc

do i need to use the l32 option?

no error message from mfsbackup is displayed, the screen fills with garbage, and hangs.

blindlemon · 01-05-2006, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by einstein

I browsed the web and downloaded mfstool2

Full marks for initiative - but I provided a link to the recommended CD in the very post you have quoted!

Quote:

Originally Posted by einstein

I can see clearly from this, as I know a little Linux, there is obviosuly a problem with the Tivo hard drive and partitions, as I would expect there to be three partitions (I think!).

TiVo drives are byteswapped, so to see the partitions listed at startup you need to boot in byteswapped mode.

Quote:

Originally Posted by einstein

if I try mfstools to backup the drive, a get a screen full of garbage and it hangs!

Try the CD I linked to.

Edit: Doh! I knew I shouldn't have gone to make a cuppa in the middle of writing a post!

Kissxofxdeath · 01-05-2006, 05:16 PM

Hi AMc
Thanks very much for the reply. Perhaps I should have started a new thread as you suggest but I wasnt sure about the newbie rule either. Apologies for my delayed reply - Ive been out all afternoon.

I do indeed get cable if I press Aux. I am convinced that there is nothing wrong with the cable which does sadly suggest the issue is with the TiVo. Does anyone have any suggestions as to who I can send it to. I found a company called "Pacelink" online but they are based in Co Fermanagh and I am in Camberwell, London. Or does anyone have any other ideas. What is this "emergency reboot code 58" I read about on another thread? Might that help me?

All help gratefully received. Thanks.

KoD

einstein · 01-05-2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindlemon

Full marks for initiative - but I provided a link to the recommended CD in the very post you have quoted!
TiVo drives are byteswapped, so to see the partitions listed at startup you need to boot in byteswapped mode.
Try the CD I linked to.

Edit: Doh! I knew I shouldn't have gone to make a cuppa in the middle of writing a post!

I downloaded the iso before you posted at 2.00am last night!, the iso i'm using is mfstools2.iso downloaded from http://mfstools.sourceforge.net/

Which is the recommended cdrom from the Hinsdale guide, I've just checked. Both cdroms are the same, just different links to the same place.

I didn't know, I had to boot in byteswap mode, I assumed the cdrom was setup by default!

Regards

Einstein

blindlemon · 01-05-2006, 05:53 PM

Sorry for staying up late...

That CD should be OK for a 40GB drive - and, no, you don't need to boot in byteswapped mode to make a backup, only if you want to view the partitions.

You do need to use -l32 though, and I would leave off the 6 if you have around 1.4GB free on your FAT drive, as the compression in MFSTools is buggy (and you can always zip the backup if you need to).

However, assuming the CD you're using is OK, then I would suspect that the problem may be caused by the problems you're experiencing with the drive. Can you get mfsinfo to give you any sensible output?

mfsinfo /dev/hdc

blindlemon · 01-05-2006, 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kissxofxdeath

I found a company called "Pacelink" online but they are based in Co Fermanagh

Pacelink are the only company that do board-level repairs to UK TiVos AFAIK - but they can be very expensive so should be viewed as a last resort.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kissxofxdeath

What is this "emergency reboot code 58" I read about on another thread? Might that help me?

The kickstart 58 is a way of getting the TiVo to check (and try to fix) the MFS filesystem under which the data is stored. The operation is similar to ScanDisk under Windows.

Kickstart 52 is more drastic as it forces the TiVo to reinstall the system software from the backup on the unused system partitions. This can sometimes fix more serious problems where system files have become corrupted - but if it goes wrong then you will need to re-image the drive.

The problem you describe could be caused by corruption in the system files, or it could be a motherboard isssue. I would try to eliminate all other options before sending the TiVo away for a m/b repair though as bills of £200+ are not uncommon.

Kissxofxdeath · 01-05-2006, 06:33 PM

Dear blindlemon
Thanks for the reply. Are you suggesting that I should try the kickstart options or are there other things I can try before I send it to Pacelink? Can I diagnose whether it is a software or m.b problem?
Many thanks. KoD

blindlemon · 01-05-2006, 06:44 PM

As I have loads of drives here I'd try replacing the drive first

However, as you don't have a spare drive to hand, try kickstart 57, 58 and 52 in that order. If none of them work then consider configuring or buying a replacement drive before sending the TiVo away to Pacelink.

At least if you configure a drive yourself (or buy a preconfigured drive from the right supplier) you can use it for something else or send it back for a refund if it doesn't fix your problem. If you send the TiVo to Pacelink you're looking at £35 + VAT + postage before you start - and it might still turn out to be just a drive problem.

einstein · 01-05-2006, 07:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by blindlemon

Sorry for staying up late...

That CD should be OK for a 40GB drive - and, no, you don't need to boot in byteswapped mode to make a backup, only if you want to view the partitions.

You do need to use -l32 though, and I would leave off the 6 if you have around 1.4GB free on your FAT drive, as the compression in MFSTools is buggy (and you can always zip the backup if you need to).

However, assuming the CD you're using is OK, then I would suspect that the problem may be caused by the problems you're experiencing with the drive. Can you get mfsinfo to give you any sensible output?

mfsinfo /dev/hdc

No problems for staying up late, I came home late from work, needed to finish a server rebuild, and I've still had no tea yet!

It's just a shame that the MFSTOOLS swap option doesn't work as stated, this had me puzzled for a few minutes.! Worked it out and here goes:-

and here's the output of the Tivo HD (hdc), I can mount hdc4 & hdc7

when I use mfstools and I tried the "l" option -l32, it does the same, screenful of garbage, and hangs. Tomorrow night I'll drop the compression option and re-format the pc hard disk. I'm using FAT32, I shouldn't think that would cause a problem, as the drive is mounted under Linux. Not shown using the -l option in this photo.

I tried mfstools 1.1, and it does the same and reboots the pc.

I don't think this is the screensaver?

I'm really just trying to see, if is worth the spend on a new hard drive. I've three other Tivos, but I not opening them up, and damaging them! I've been there with compaq servers, swapping parts from server to server, and then I've ended up with two dead servers.

blindlemon: Thanks for your continued help, I'll try the msinfo command tomorrow evening, but I suspect it will show similiar output to the partition information at bootup? I'll include the l option, and turn-off compression.

PS you not drunk, some of these shots are out of focus, that's me the crap photographer, and I blame it on a new camera, which has more buttons than the Space Shuttle! (and if I put it in auto, it kills the PC screen with flash, and it could do with being on a tripod, and not handheld by an idiot!)

Kissxofxdeath · 01-06-2006, 06:02 AM

I tried kickstart 57 and the screen went blank and I got a "green screen of death" message saying that I should leave the TiVo connected for 24 hours and not touch it.

What should I do next?

KoD

blindlemon · 01-06-2006, 06:24 AM

Wait...

Normally the GSOD will complete in less than an hour. If it takes longer then that can be an indication that something more serious is wrong. However, it's not unknown for it to take many hours and then complete successfully - just don't unplug the TiVo while you're waiting.

Kissxofxdeath · 01-06-2006, 06:37 AM

Hi blindlemon.

Indeed as you said, it fixed itself in short order.

I have now tried kickstart 58 and 52 as well and none of them have worked.

Does that mean I need a new drive? And if so, can I get one with bigger memory thus hopefully killing two birds with one stone? And can I salvage any of the stuff on the original drive?

Thanks for all your help so far.

KoD

blindlemon · 01-06-2006, 08:00 AM

I have sent you a PM about replacement drives

However, I wouldn't want you to spend money on a new drive until you have tried a few more things. If you can see the input signal when you press "aux" then, as you say, it must be reaching the TiVo.

What options have you selected in Guided Setup? Have you selected the appropriate channels in "channels I receive"?

While watching "Live TV" (the blue screen) try typing the channel number - eg. 101 - and then typing it again. This should force the TiVo to switch from the RF (aerial) input to the AUX scart or vice-versa.

To test that the MPEG encoder is working, if you have an analogue TV aerial (even if the picture through a TV is crap) try, plugging that into the RF-In socket on the TiVo and then go through Guided Setup again choosing Aerial Only. If you can then see and pause a picture on "Live TV" the encoder is OK.