If Cablecard TiVo came out today...

[nhaigh]

...I'd buy three of them before the shops closed. One for the Lounge to replace my DirecTiVo, one in the Dem to replace my Series One and an addition for the bedroom. Am I in such a minority that TiVo feel there is no real market for this. There are a lot of cable card TV's available today so it can't be a technology reason. Maybe they jus don'y want my subscriptions.

How many would you buy?

[Justin Thyme]

I currently have 4 SA's. I have long stated I am ready to switch my carrier from Dish to cable and buy 3 CC HD Tivo's.

I request that TivoPony announce here on TCF a pre-order waitlist if they decide to do the rollout this way. It's the least Tivo Corp. can do for all this valuable advice we armchair CTO's and CEO's are generating. Okay, Okay... It would probably take a staff of 5 to wade through and comprehend all of our delusional ravings, but at least we are, like trekkies, a loyal base and expressions of noblese oblige are in order.

[jsmeeker]

I'd buy one in a heartbeat.

[arctanstevo]

Is that CC-HD or CC Standard. I will move to it in a second when it is ready and HD. The again, I'll need to buy som enew TV's as well

[Stanley Rohner]

Originally Posted by nhaigh

...Maybe they jus don'y want my subscriptions.

Maybe they're still designing it and testing it.

I'm sure they won't figure - we'll it's all ready to sell now, but let's just tick everyone off and not sell it for a long time.

[pkscout]

I'd probably get one. I have the HD TiVo right now (and have since they came out), but the unit is really slow and shows the fact that the code is now almost 4 years old (the 3.x codebase).

I'm to the point where I will likely replace it this year either with a standalone CC based TiVo, a MythTV box, or the rumored (not that I believe it until I see it) Apple DVR (if it does HD).

[cbordman]

It would have to be sub $400, including the lifetime fee, for me to replace the time warner hd dvr.

[nhaigh]

OK, taking this one step further, how much would you be prepared to pay without lifetime. I reckon I'd go $500 per unit giving me a $1500 outlay. I guess if they were more than that I'd consider droping to two Units. I think at $1000 or more for a unit I'd be down to one and put two current Series 2 units in the Den and Bedroom. I only really need Cablecard HD Integrated for me

What amazes me it my wife is totally on board with this expediture. We've had TiVo since 2000 and she doesn't understand why I don't just buy three regualr ones now.

[jsmeeker]

Originally Posted by cbordman

It would have to be sub $400, including the lifetime fee, for me to replace the time warner hd dvr.

Wishful thinking, I think. Isn't lifetime $300 now? That means the box would need to be under $100. Doesn't seem likely to me... But who knows.

[ZeoTiVo]

Originally Posted by nhaigh

...I'd buy three of them before the shops closed. One for the Lounge to replace my DirecTiVo, one in the Dem to replace my Series One and an addition for the bedroom. Am I in such a minority that TiVo feel there is no real market for this. There are a lot of cable card TV's available today so it can't be a technology reason. Maybe they jus don'y want my subscriptions.

How many would you buy?

a few things on your post
one - I assume you could hook a Cable card TiVo up to DirectTV using the non cable card inputs but that would not be HD so why wait if you are going to use DirectTV as your carrier but wnat SA TiVos?

TiVo knows there is a market, and indeed TiVo needs it to stay in business.
Check my sig for TiVoPony's post on the fact they will have a dual tuner HD model out in 2006.

the technical reason is getting a ratified standard on a multituner Cable Card so they can be sure of how the cable card will work. Looks like they may bite the bullet and have it work with two single tuner cable cards for now just so it can be on the store shelves.


edit - oh yah I will buy in at 400$ for the hardware. I am waiting for HD to get reasonable in price before I go to it. Especially LCD TVs and how much HD you can get without buying premium cable packages.
I will spend a little more for the TiVo itself though, assuming it is a better built box with quicker TTG and more room for HME apps.

[mportuesi]

Originally Posted by pkscout

I'm to the point where I will likely replace it this year either with a standalone CC based TiVo, a MythTV box, or the rumored (not that I believe it until I see it) Apple DVR (if it does HD).

I'm exactly at the same point you are. I have a SA series 2 I've had for the last three years. I recently upgraded the hard disk when I got an HD set, to run all my recordings at Best. But I really want something that can record HD. Right now I hate being held hostage to the TV set for programs I want to watch in HD.

I'd be willing to pay around $500-$600 for the box and $300 for the Lifetime service, for a total outlay around $900. I only need one box, especially with dual tuners - I'm just not that big of a TV watcher.

[nhaigh]

Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo

a few things on your post
one - I assume you could hook a Cable card TiVo up to DirectTV using the non cable card inputs but that would not be HD so why wait if you are going to use DirectTV as your carrier but wnat SA TiVos?

Will the cablecard TiVo have non-cable card inputs? Why would it?

I currently have SD DTV using their out dated TiVo Implementation. I plan to upgrade to HDTV for which I will get cable and want to use TiVo to do it. If Cablecard TiVo was here today I'd buy it along with a new HDTV to watch. If Comcast release their TiVo first I'll get that.

Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo

TiVo knows there is a market, and indeed TiVo needs it to stay in business.
Check my sig for TiVoPony's post on the fact they will have a dual tuner HD model out in 2006.

I saw that post as well. It's good news, but if TiVo don't release theirs well in advance of Comcast releaseing theirs they limit themselves. If we have a choice between the no money down Comcast TiVo and the $500+ CC TiVo which do you think people would get. TiVo should get in while people are hungry.

TiVo should be carefull they don't miss the boat.

[ZeoTiVo]

Originally Posted by nhaigh

Will the cablecard TiVo have non-cable card inputs? Why would it?

yes it will have non cable card inputs, because not everyone will have to rent a cable card if they do not have digital cable package. Also there is free OTA HD to be had as well. I have no idea how the dual tuners will work in such a case or if any mix and match of inputs will occurr, etc.. but TiVo always tries to be agnostic as possible about hookups. in your case the cable card inputs is what you want.


I myself hope to see a CC TiVo toward the end of the first quarter next year. I agree that the earlier TiVo gets in the market the better off they are, but they can not flub the design just to get in early.

[nhaigh]

Originally Posted by ZeoTiVo

yes it will have non cable card inputs, because not everyone will have to rent a cable card if they do not have digital cable package. Also there is free OTA HD to be had as well.

So it will basically be an HDR10-250 with the Satalite inputs replaced with Cablecard. I know I'm a layman but it does seem like most of the work must have been done in earlier versions.

[Justin Thyme]

Circuit City is selling Sony's Cablecard DVR for $999. They discontinued the lower capacity 250GB unit that sold for $799.

Tivo can easily enter the market with an SRP in that range. It is standard practice to charge full retail price at product entry, and I don't think this rollout is going to be any different, but who knows, maybe Tivo will come in hot with a low price point to take Cable marketshare while it is up for grabs. If they have both an SD cablecard unit and an HD cablecard, I can see a CC SD Tivo at around the SA price point. But I will probably go for all HD Cablecard high HDD capacity units even if they set the msrp at the top of the range, even though only two of the 3 displays are Hidef.

It's because I will elect lifetime for these and expect them to be in the family for a long long time, during which period the Guest room with the SDTv will likely get a handme down HD set.

I will elect for largest HDD because it may be a while before HDD upgrades are figured out.

[jsmeeker]

Originally Posted by nhaigh

Will the cablecard TiVo have non-cable card inputs? Why would it?

Cable Card really isn't an input. The inputs would still be coaxial. CableCard is really a way to decrypt/decode stuff that isn't sent as normal, analog cable TV signals without using a box provided by the cable co./

[jsmeeker]

Originally Posted by nhaigh

I saw that post as well. It's good news, but if TiVo don't release theirs well in advance of Comcast releaseing theirs they limit themselves. If we have a choice between the no money down Comcast TiVo and the $500+ CC TiVo which do you think people would get. TiVo should get in while people are hungry.

I would get what came first. If the Comcast DVR WITH TiVo SERVICE became available to me before the standalone TiVo box, I would get it. Then when the TiVo box came oit, depending on it's features and price, I would either buy it and dump the Comcast box or if it wasn't worth the cost at that time, I would keep the Comcast box longer.

[davezatz]

I don't care so much about the CableCARD aspect, but I am definitely in the market for at least one dual HD tuner TiVo. I'm fine using QAM or antenna for the signal. I'd be in at up to $400, maybe more when it first comes out... the early adopter premium price, ya know.

Of course so much of this is timing... if the Comcast HD TiVo box comes out first or at the same time, I might go with them to save on the upfront fees. I wonder how TiVo will try to limit those boxes from canibalizing potential Stand-alone sales. Perhaps the value-added will be things like TTG, DVD playing/burning, and these new broadband features. TiVo says DTV doesn't want to implement the HME/HMO options though they are currently available and technically possible, but I'm betting TiVo isn't so concerned about it since it differentiates the boxes and potentially results in more stand-alone sales.

[jsmeeker]

Originally Posted by davezatz

I don't care so much about the CableCARD aspect, but I am definitely in the market for at least one dual HD tuner TiVo. I'm fine using QAM or antenna for the signal. I'd be in at up to $400, maybe more when it first comes out... the early adopter premium price, ya know.
.

Which cable company sends all of their channels in the clear like that?

[ZeoTiVo]

Originally Posted by davezatz

I don't care so much about the CableCARD aspect, but I am definitely in the market for at least one dual HD tuner TiVo. I'm fine using QAM or antenna for the signal. I'd be in at up to $400, maybe more when it first comes out... the early adopter premium price, ya know. .

I would be looking at it for the better TTG and HME aspects to start with. the fact that it will most likely record a better picture even without using HD is a plus but for me not a buy in point.

and like Justin posted, TiVo is most likely eyeing a nice fat retail price at first to pay some R&D off but how long can they maintain a high price ?

[SullyND]

I would imagine that there is atleast some chance that the CC unit will be hackable/upgradable. The Moto/Comcast unit will not likely be as readily modified.

[jsmeeker]

Originally Posted by SullyND

I would imagine that there is atleast some chance that the CC unit will be hackable/upgradable. The Moto/Comcast unit will not likely be as readily modified.

that would not be much of a problem for me if the Comcast box came out first. I would not hold out just to get a hackable box. It was a few years before I hacked my Series 1 SA TiVo.

[davezatz]

Originally Posted by jsmeeker

Which cable company sends all of their channels in the clear like that?

From what I've read (check out AVSForum) many cable co's send the major network local channels in the clear. I'm getting them (Fox, CBS, NBC, ABC, PBS) from Comcast in HD. Surprisingly I seem to get some other channels, but I haven't identified them yet... maybe TBS, WB, and some sort of PPV? I also get all the music channels which seems odd.

Good luck calling and finding out which channel is which or troubleshooting anything - QAM seems like the cable frontier. The numbering is way off too and fits into no pattern... this stuff is definitely not being managed. Some commercials or the breaks between them on ABC cause my tuner to change channels from 105.3 to 105.1 (it could be my tuner, but I'll blame Comcast). However, the service IS free with my analog cable and since my apartment is blocked from getting ABC OTA it's working fine.

ESPN and Discovery would be nice in HD, but it would require almost doubling my Comcast bill for just two stations (digital is a $20/mo increase, HD cable box at $10, HD at $5).

[shady]

Originally Posted by jsmeeker

I would get what came first. If the Comcast DVR WITH TiVo SERVICE became available to me before the standalone TiVo box, I would get it. Then when the TiVo box came oit, depending on it's features and price, I would either buy it and dump the Comcast box or if it wasn't worth the cost at that time, I would keep the Comcast box longer.

That's exactly what I was going to write.

I'm thinking that the only difference funtionality wise of the comcast, and the cablecard boxes will be that we can upgrade the HDDs in the cablecard boxes, but we won't in the comcast box (unless external drives can be hooked up like they can with the Scientific Atlantic box)

But who knows, Comcast may decide to block some or all of the networking features. Time will tell

[jsmeeker]

Originally Posted by shady

That's exactly what I was going to write.

I'm thinking that the only difference funtionality wise of the comcast, and the cablecard boxes will be that we can upgrade the HDDs in the cablecard boxes, but we won't in the comcast box (unless external drives can be hooked up like they can with the Scientific Atlantic box)

But who knows, Comcast may decide to block some or all of the networking features. Time will tell

Even if Comcast DID block the HOM/HME/TTG stuff, I woudl still get it if it were available before the TiVo SA box. I don't have those features now, and for me, the minimum requirements would be to duplicate what I can do now and add in the ability to record in HiDef.

[rainwater]

I think TiVo will need to lower their monthly rate for a CC TiVo since people are going to have to rent the CC themselves. It will be interesting to see TiVos strategy with this regards. While having a CC TiVo is great. Explaining to the customer how to get it setup is not going to be easy. That is why so many people have cable company dvrs now because of how easy it is to setup (the cable guy sets it up for them and it just works).

[mrmike]

If HD and OTA capable, I'd replace one of my S1s that still has transferrable lifetime on it in a heartbeat at any price near the price of the HD-TiVo presently ($500-$900). If they have Firewire archive or some other way to get HD content off them (Even 5C/DRM encumbered), I'd probably replace all of my 3 SAs and farm them off to friends and family to spread the TiVo love.

[Justin Thyme]

Has anyone read anywhere how many advanced functions will be available for the CC Tivo at launch? All HME? TTG?

[nhaigh]

Originally Posted by shady

But who knows, Comcast may decide to block some or all of the networking features. Time will tell

The Comcast press release about the TiVo says they will suport the TiVo Networking features. I think it will be a good TiVo implementation.

[Globular]

I'm actually waiting to get HDTV until TiVo gets some kind of support for it I can use; Comcast or a SA HD CC box, whatever.

So I'm holding back on spending a lot of dough. Just waitin' on TiVo...