Telewest TV Drive PVR / DVR - any Tivo owner feedback?

[childe]

I accidentally posted this on the Chit-Chat forum, but think it belongs here.

Now the Telewest TVdrive pilot is underway, are there any Tivo users who would care to share their views? It has some features which are clearly better than Tivo, but do they compensate for any other shortcomings it may have? Which is the better overall package, and why?

I'm very interested to hear from Tivo users as obviously their opinions are obviously to be highly respected, and they won't be overly impressed by features that we Tivo users take for granted.

[karl]

Just had TVDrive installed yesterday. I wanted it because I'm planning to get HDTV next year and also I am having problems with my TiVo randomly rebooting at ever more frequent intervals.

I also like the idea of the three tuners, 2 to record and 1 to watch, plus 90 minutes live tv rewind rather than 30. It also means the end of the "TiVo needs to change the channel at 8pm" message - which causes no end of confusion when my girlfriend comes round to watch Corrie!

With two 120GB drives in my TiVo and recording everything in Basic (guess I have bad eyesight plus I don't watch sport), 80 hours recording time seems a bit of a comedown (only 20 in HD!).

Obviously as you rent the box from Telewest there is no opportunity for hacking like there is with TiVo, so I guess you're stuck with this capacity. On the other hand, I suppose the rental business model means it's cheaper to upgrade in the future when Telewest upgrade capacity. I can't help feeling it's somewhat ironic that the cutting edge of TV tech takes you back to the old days of Radio Rentals, as it were.

My initial impression from actually using the box was, perhaps predictably, that I immediately missed a TiVo feature. First thing I wanted to do was set up a season pass for Lost. Okay, so how do I type L-O-S-T? Oh, I don't - I have to find it in the EPG and press the yellow button! Impressive for a VCR user but frustrating for us spoilt TiVo users. Recording programmes by name is probably my favourite TiVo feature, ARWL for example is nice but I can live without it. Soon after getting my TiVo I disabled suggestions as I don't even have enough time to watch programmes I've explicitly recorded anyway. So recreating season passes is going to be problematic.

I think it wouldn't be so bad if the Telewest EPG was presented in the clever way TiVo does it. The TiVo EPG fits a lot more programmes into the space available. On the other hand, once you have found the programme you want, setting the recording is a very fast process, one key press and the text background of the programme goes red instantly to reflect the recording being set.

You can set start and end padding, but it applies to all recordings. But since there are two recording tuners, I don't foresee this being a problem for me in practice.

Then I set up recordings for Space Cadets. After a trip out to see Doom at the cinema, I came home to watch it.

One additional irritation seems to be that certain programmes will always require you to enter a PIN before you can watch the recording. It seems you cannot turn parental control off completely, very annoying if you have no kids.

Oh dear, all it's recorded is a black screen.

Early this afternoon I tried two simultaneous recordings. On watching one back, the picture kept breaking up and it kept losing the sound.

So I tried the obvious tactic of rebooting the box. After reboot, it says TVDrive service not available, please phone Telewest Customer Care. I have a technician coming back next week.

[AMc]

Thanks for the review Karl. It all sounded quite encouraging up to the last 4 paragraphs, then worse for the last 3 and then that final one...
Reminds me of when my Pace box died and TW 'hurried round' in just under a week.

Loving TeleWest at the moment - just found out that Blueyonder have just deleted all my mail because I hadn't accessed the account for 90 days.

[davisa]

An interesting read, especially as I've been told no TVDrive availability until Q1 next year.

I think the lack of programme search and soft padding would both be a show stopper for me I REALLY do have no idea what various channels show - and after years of TiVo I really don't care!

Please do keep your thoughts and observations coming...

[cwaring]

Originally Posted by davisa

An interesting read, especially as I've been told no TVDrive availability until Q1 next year.

http://www.telewestinfo.co.uk/news.shtml#TVDrive
There are 400 actual customers (as opposed to TW employees) who are trialing it this month, before a general release in Q1 next year. Lucky so-and-so's

[dave h-j]

Originally Posted by cwaring

[url] Lucky so-and-so's

Black screen recording, picture breakup and a broken box doesn't sound lucky to me..

[cwaring]

True, but being able to review it for my site would be great. Plus, I still have my Tivo

[HyperionX]

Thanks for the insight Karl, but could you clarify something for me please? Did I misread or does the TVDrive have a "season pass" like functionality?

I think I saw soft padding (thank any deity that's listening!!) and multiple tuners (for that alone I'd be tempted to sacrifice a first born!)

Thanks in advance!

[cwaring]

I'm certain it does have something similar. How reliable it is I don't know and hope Karl can tell us all

[karl]

Originally Posted by HyperionX

Thanks for the insight Karl, but could you clarify something for me please? Did I misread or does the TVDrive have a "season pass" like functionality?

I think I saw soft padding (thank any deity that's listening!!) and multiple tuners (for that alone I'd be tempted to sacrifice a first born!)

I can confirm that TVDrive certainly does have "season pass" like functionality. Not sure how sophisticated it is in terms of rescheduling, first run only, no duplicate episodes, 28 day rules etc.

You can set padding options, but it is a global setting for all recordings. I'm not sure what happens when 2 programmes are recording in "pad time" and a third recording is scheduled to start, but I *think* the third is delayed rather than cancelled. In any case, having 2 recording tuners and a third viewing tuner should make clashes less likely. Also, there are options for clash resolution.

I'm hoping that my box will get fixed tomorrow. Just to clarify, only the recording functionality of my box is currently broken, and it turns out TiVo can control TVDrive as if it was a regular set-top box using the front IR blaster. Whilst it's disappointing to have problems, it is after all a pilot scheme.

Will try to post more once my box is working properly again!

[cwaring]

Originally Posted by karl

...and it turns out TiVo can control TVDrive as if it was a regular set-top box using the front IR blaster.

Fron IR blaster? You sure? Does that mean the TVD uses standard IR and not IrDA? Also, I assume it controls one of the tuners so, theoretically, you could use the third TVD tuner to record something on Tivo while watching something previously recorded on said Tivo.

I can feel a feedback-loop coming on

[sanderton]

Originally Posted by karl

I wanted it because I'm planning to get HDTV next year ... With two 120GB drives in my TiVo and recording everything in Basic

Nothing like going from one extreme to the other!

[HyperionX]

Thanks Karl. Great work. Thanks for taking the time to use the device so exhaustively and letting us know so thoroughly and quickly .

I look forward to more info about the TVDrive - especially about the "season pass functionality".

I am assuming that the TVDrives are considered virtually ready for "public consumption" and this is the final stage testing....so we shouldn't expect to see too much diffferent from the final release...

[ash_bluewomble]

Does it look like it would be possible to use the TVDrive alongside a TiVo? i.e. have TiVo control one of the tuners and the TVDrive use the other 2 to record it's stuff? Would this work? Would you still be able to watch programs from the TVDrive (or Teleport) without it affecting the TiVo's recordings?

If this works, this setup surely provides the best of both worlds? Flexible, large, reliable and extensible TiVo, along side the TVDrive, which is unproven technology (and sounds a little unreliable in beta tests) offering help for resolving conflicts with TiVo, Teleport and HD recordings....

[teresatt]

This is exactly what I'm hoping to do. TVDrive sounds great but I bet it'll still be dissapointing compared to TiVo.

[childe]

There is one feature of the TVdrive which I don't think has been commented on, but which could become a Tivo killer; it supports High Definition TV. I know there is no content yet, but there will be soon. Once I can afford a HD TV and the majority of the content is HD, I think that will be the end of the road for my Tivo, unless there are very compelling reasons to stick with it.

In case there are some Tivo features that I can't bear to lose (Wishlists for instance), would there be any way of using the Tivo to control the TVdrive which could then record HD content? That would be brilliant.

[cwaring]

I have a feeling that I have been told there is something like Wishlists in the TVD. Maybe Karl could confirm?

[nickriley]

Is there any more info about the TVDrive - I for one am eager to hear reviews of the hardware and software

[HyperionX]

Maybe I'm being daft but I wondered why soft padding would be necessary...? If you have multiple tuners and an EPG that is "constantly" updated (either at regular intervals - not once a day! - or in real-time) wouldn't padding be redundant...?

I ask because I find I have to use it on TiVo because some of the channel providers use program start and finish times as rough guide lines especially during "reality tv season"...

On a slightly separate point, is it safe to assume that the TVDrive's channel changing is integral and therefore should avoid/eliminate some of the channel changing anomalies that can arise with the IR Wand? I speak as someone who recently set TiVo to record a repeat of the new Battlestar Galactica pilot show second episode and woke to watch a riveting 1 1/2 hours of VH1 Xmas specials

Thanks again....now all I have to do is hope that ntl and Telewest merge in time for me to take advantage of the TVDrive...

[sanderton]

If only the TV companies were that accurate and reliable!

If you've been recording Family Guy and American Dad over Xmas you'll have seem why soft padding was needed, even ona dual tuner machine.

[ericd121]

Originally Posted by HyperionX

Maybe I'm being daft but I wondered why soft padding would be necessary...? If you have multiple tuners and an EPG that is "constantly" updated (either at regular intervals - not once a day! - or in real-time) wouldn't padding be redundant...?

That would be true if the programmes were served up as discrete units, like Homechoice does, I believe;
however, if programmes are being recorded from the broadcasters' live streams, then, as Stuart says, recordings will need padding because the broadcasters supply incorrect, or at least disingenuous, schedule data.

[HyperionX]

Thanks and a Happy New Year to all!!

[childe]

Karl - any further TVdrive feedback now you've had it for a few weeks?

[ericd121]

I, too, would be interested, particularly in whether there is any High Definition programming;
Bleak House and Life in the Undergrowth were both recorded in HD so I'm wondering if TeleWest actually broadcast those versions.

[karl]

Telewest came and swapped my box, I've now had TVDrive working (almost) properly for a couple of weeks now.

I say almost as I have had a few more glitches. Nothing too serious, although I have needed to reboot a few times (could not get out of the TVGuide). Sometimes, after watching a recording and then going to the TVGuide, the TVGuide seems to get confused about what day it is - it occasionally thinks it's the day of the recording.

The thing that strikes me the most about comparing TiVo and TVDrive, and I'm sure this will come as no surprise to anyone here, is just how good the UI designers at TiVo were. One example is, when you come to the end of a recording (which is itself a challenge as there is no 15-minute jump, just fast forward and rewind at various speeds), TVDrive gives you three options for where to go next - "Recorded Programmes", "View Again" or "Live TV". I don't know if it's just me, but "View Again" seems really wierd. Why would I want to do that straight away? Obviously "Delete" would be a better choice. However, after selecting "Recorded Programmes" the just viewed programme usually (although, I think, not always) is the selected one so you can delete it quite easily. As I said though the biggest pain is it's not easy to jump to the end of a programme in the first place. One plus point over TiVo though is that the list of recorded programmes does show which recordings you have part-viewed or fully-viewed before (i.e. you do know which programmes you've watched in their entirety).

Another thing I do like about the TVDrive is the unit itself has a digital clock/playback location display. The onscreen display is just a counter though.

I can confirm that TiVo will control the non-recording tuner of the TVDrive via the front IR blaster, so it is possible to use the two together.

One interesting feature is sleep mode, which means that temporary recordings are not made outside of peak hours (Weekdays 15:00-23:00, weekends 07:00-23:00). During sleep mode an icon is superimposed on the bottom left of the screen and Ok needs to be pressed to reactivate the TVDrive. I guess this could affect TiVo recordings.

As far as HDTV is concerned, this is one of the reasons I got TVDrive. Currently the entire series of "The Blue Planet" is available through Teleport, but that's it at the moment as far as I know (don't have an HDTV yet anyway). As for HD interfaces, there is an HDMI port (and it says some content may only be available this way due to licensing restrictions), and a component output also for HD (is this the same as DVI? dunno). Looks like HDMI is the way to go when buying a HDTV set.

Regarding wishlists and the like, TVDrive has no such functionality, and indeed this area is to me the biggest advantage of TiVo. You schedule recordings by selecting them in the 8-day TVGuide, and you can choose to record all episodes of a series (or, bizarrely, all episodes that week). You can do the same thing in the mini guide. That's it.

On the whole, I'm reasonably happy with the TVDrive. It is a pain that you can't select programmes to record by name, and the other major irritation is the need to input PIN codes for parental control for certain programmes - there seems to be no way to fully turn off parental control, and some pretty innocuous programmes seem to be protected.

[teresatt]

Thanks so much for the feedback Karl. It's a shame about not being able to set a recording by searching for it's name. We rarely know the date or time of a programme that we want to record and often we don't even know what channel it's on. It means that we'll still have to have a seperate programme guide in order to set recordings. That rather defeats one of the purposes of a PVR.

For a given programme on the EPG, can you view upcoming episodes like you can on TiVo and see whether any are scheduled to be recorded. Do series links pick up every singe showing including repeats or are they intelligent like TiVo and only pick up those not shown recently?

Is there a bookmark facility so that if you stop watching partway through a recording, when you come back to it you are where you left it?

You say that TiVo can control the non recording tuner, but I take it that there's only one output from TVDrive. So if TiVo is recording, you can't watch another channel or recording on TVDrive.

How does the TVDrive handle it's disk space. Does it expire recordings or do you have to manualy delete them. Does it prevent you setting more programmes to record when it's out of disk space?

From your feedback, Karl, I'm impressed that Telewest seem to have implemented some advanced PVR features and TVDrive should be able to compare favourably with Sky+ and defintely better than the majority of FreeView PVRs. HD is also a definite bonus. I've only got an SD screen, but HD material looks a lot better than SD.

In your opinion Karl, is TVDrive good enough to, dare I say it, ditch TiVo? I've just had a real scare wih my TiVo when I though it was broken, so I'd love to know that there is a viable alternative.

Thanks.

[Richardr]

Originally Posted by karl

One interesting feature is sleep mode, which means that temporary recordings are not made outside of peak hours (Weekdays 15:00-23:00, weekends 07:00-23:00).

Out of interest, what are temporary recordings?

[karl]

Originally Posted by teresatt

For a given programme on the EPG, can you view upcoming episodes like you can on TiVo and see whether any are scheduled to be recorded.

Not exactly, but if you are recording a whole series you can get a list of episodes and then view some info about each episode. The information seems shorter than the Tribune data. TiVo definitely better here.

Originally Posted by teresatt

Do series links pick up every singe showing including repeats or are they intelligent like TiVo and only pick up those not shown recently?

Haven't worked that out yet.

Originally Posted by teresatt

Is there a bookmark facility so that if you stop watching partway through a recording, when you come back to it you are where you left it?

Yes.

Originally Posted by teresatt

You say that TiVo can control the non recording tuner, but I take it that there's only one output from TVDrive. So if TiVo is recording, you can't watch another channel or recording on TVDrive.

Well, there is a separate SCART for VCR, but I believe that is only for copying recordings. You can of course record 3 channels at once though. Isn't that enough

Originally Posted by teresatt

How does the TVDrive handle it's disk space. Does it expire recordings or do you have to manualy delete them. Does it prevent you setting more programmes to record when it's out of disk space?

AFAIK you have to manually delete them. I haven't managed to run out of disk space yet!

Originally Posted by teresatt

In your opinion Karl, is TVDrive good enough to, dare I say it, ditch TiVo? I've just had a real scare wih my TiVo when I though it was broken, so I'd love to know that there is a viable alternative.

I think the answer to that depends on individual circumstances and requirements. In my case, my TiVo hardware seems to be failing (although I do have a spare power supply that I haven't got round to fitting). On the whole, the TiVo software is clearly superior to the TVDrive software. However, considering the package as a whole, both systems have their plus and minus points. For example, the fact that the recording function is integrated into the set top box has definite advantages, and of course if you want HD without Sky, what choice have you got?

It seems to me that UK TiVo hardware is pretty unreliable. Don't know whether this is a software design flaw - recording all the time? TVDrive stops recording all the time during off-peak times. Temporary recordings refers to the 90-minute live TV buffer.

The other point is, there is no reason of course that the TVDrive software won't be improved in the future. In a few years time when we want to record eveything in HD, I don't think TiVo will be the answer.

[teresatt]

Originally Posted by karl

Well, there is a separate SCART for VCR, but I believe that is only for copying recordings. You can of course record 3 channels at once though. Isn't that enough

I was hoping to still be able to fully run TiVo off TVDrive and have access to the TVDrive features just in case I didn't completely get on with TVDrive. When the TVDrive box was first announced it was stated that it would have multiroom capability, but it seems that Telewest have dropped this in favour of renting the existing old boxes for £5 a month.

Do you know if the VCR output is composite only? Most people now have DVD recorders and would be very much better off with an RGB output. I'll be surprised if it's RGB.

The other huge issue that concerns me is widescreen switching. I can't bear to watch cropped or stretched 4:3. Karl, are you using HDMI or component? What happens with 4:3 programmes, do you have to change aspect manually? Does the picture get output simultaneously to all outputs including HDMI, component and scart. I could use the component output for the picture and route the scart output into my aspect switcher box. It plugs into the serial port on my plasma and changes it's aspect when triggered off the scart. I currently output my TiVo into my plasma VGA input via a converter so I use the aspect switcher.

Thanks again for all your feedback and taking the time to answer my many questions.

[HyperionX]

Thanks Karl for all of the "work" you've done so far reviewing the TVDrive. Much of the information has been very valuable.

Whilst I think TiVo is an excellent PVR, it's not supported in the UK in terms of evolving as TV usage and presentation evolves (multiple tuners, HD, etc)

The TVDrive is increasingly looking like a viable replacement (or at least supplement) for my aging TiVo that means that I won't have to change my TV provider.

BTW one point I thought the maximum you could record was two channels simultaneously whilst watching the third or watching a recording...?

Have to say I'd be extremely happy if the TVDrive can intelligently distinguish between first shows and repeats...TiVo's good but I already get too many repeats recorded as it is...