Update: Network slo-mo problem so C&DE and upgrade 3.1.1e to 6.2.

Jumi · 11-29-2005, 07:40 PM

Stayed with 3.1.1e for fear of the random reboots with 6.2. Got random slo-mo on locals only for the last month. Fixed only by changing channel & back on that tuner. Posted on this board and found some with same issue. Noticed pixelation right before slo-mo. Called advanced tech support at DTV. Thought might be very busy unit (Hughes SD-DVR80, 11 months old, very slooooow) plus some signal from satelite to trigger and suggested C&DE then upgrade. Thought not a software issue since others had had same thing at same moment (Cleveland locals). Did it today. Took 6 hours but results well worth the trouble. I don't know if the slo-mo issue is fixed but the TiVo operation is blazing fast! I'm knocking on wood! Thanx to all who tried to help. Question: Does Clear and Delete Everything defrag the HDD (as tech support said) and help an old unit? Is this something one should do every so often?

Jumi · 12-01-2005, 08:37 AM

57 hits and no answers to the questions above?? BTW almost 2 days and the thing works like it never did before (FAST and responsive to the remotes). I'm going to hate when it dies.

doconeill · 12-01-2005, 06:01 PM

I would find my HDVR2, which I've had for a while, occasionally in a state where the video is somewhat pixellated and stuttering in slow motion. The remote would have no effect. Occasionally it would be frozen altogether. The solution was to unplug and plug to reset it.

Once, while my daughter was watching live TV, it rebooted. It had probably rebooted several times when no one was looking.

Eventually, we noticed increasing pixellation on one particular tuner. Swapping the cables narrowed it to Tuner 2 internally. It got bad enough to be annoying, and if we left Tuner 2 live long enough, it would start slowing down and sluggish to respond. Disabling the second tuner allowed it to work fine otherwise, but I RAPIDLY realized I needed two tuners (I had bought a SD-DVR80 as well, and the HDVR2 replaced an old standalone Tivo - you can't go back to one tuner...

I deactivated it and got a DSR708 from Weaknees. A happy four-tuner person again.

Jumi · 12-01-2005, 06:11 PM

How about an expert opinion to this Question: Does Clear and Delete Everything defrag the HDD (as tech support said) and help an old unit? Is this something one should do every so often? When I upgraded of course I got faster software but the remote response was glacial or nonexistant prior to the C&DE and upgrade.

smithken31100 · 12-01-2005, 07:23 PM

I'm not an expert and honestly don't know the answer to your question but...

I have never done a clear and delete everything and my HDVR2 has been using the same hard drive for close to 2 years. My understanding is that the operating system keeps things neat enough that defragging isn't necessary. My guess is that even if defragging is necessary they is plenty of time when the machine isn't recording or whatever to defrag.

doconeill · 12-01-2005, 08:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumi

How about an expert opinion to this Question: Does Clear and Delete Everything defrag the HDD (as tech support said) and help an old unit? Is this something one should do every so often? When I upgraded of course I got faster software but the remote response was glacial or nonexistant prior to the C&DE and upgrade.

Technically no, it doesn't "defrag" the disk, since what it really does is delete all the recorded programs, listings database, etc. Afterwards there is nothing to defrag except the OS and application software, which never really changes so it should never get fragmented.

I'm not familiar with the way the video data is stored, but in general concepts, if you run a drive close to full all the time (and this can be a disadvantage to those using Sugggestions as a "free space meter"), it will become fragmented over time. Usually active defragmenting is a resource-intensive operation, so really isn't very good on a system where priority is to the recording/playback operations. So you try and minimize the fragmentation at the source side. Most do so by breaking all data into discrete units, and assume that there will always be some fragmentation and deal with it.

Since a C&DE deletes all the data that would get fragmented, you have zero fragmentation - thus any slowdown that can be attributed to the fragmentation is eliminated.

A failing hard drive could benefit for a short time from a C&DE since by deleting everything, the data can be rewritten to areas where the disk isn't "bad", alt least for a while, so again there is the perception that it will run faster for a while, but it doesn't cure the problem.

I'd say if the C&DE solved the immediate problem, but it returns fairly soon and the drive is far from full, you probably have a failing hard drive.

If the problem is not solved by a C&DE, you probably have other hardware issues, either with the unit or the the signal path.

Jumi · 12-02-2005, 01:17 PM

If it's only deleting and not defragging why did it take 2.5 hours? Does is mark bad sectors so they won't be used?

doconeill · 12-02-2005, 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumi

If it's only deleting and not defragging why did it take 2.5 hours? Does is mark bad sectors so they won't be used?

That I don't have a good idea on...but if there is no data, there is nothing to defragment...just a fact of data storage.

What it MAY do is "reformat" the video data storage areas, which is to rebuild the structures for storing the data. The old DOS/Windows-style formats were pretty slow. I believe the TiVo uses a proprietary filesystem for the video.

Still shouldn't take that long though. There may be some other housekeeping it does that is slow.

Jumi · 12-05-2005, 02:34 PM

Well it took 5 days but I got my first random reboot last night about 11:50 while recording on both tuners. Thank you 6.2. It's on a UPS and never did this on 3.1.1e. I don't know if slo-mo or rebooting is the more annoying.

Jumi · 01-07-2006, 12:24 PM

Update: It's been a month and the 12/5 reboot was the only one! So far - so good.

databoy911 · 01-16-2006, 08:41 PM

I have a Hughes DTV HR10-250 box which I've never upgraded (how would I do that?). I have 6 or7 Season passes, with the option to record Tivo Suggested shows turned off, and about 10 or 12 shows saved (about 15 hours worth) and about 2 or 3 hours being recorded in HD.

I have noticed a slow but steady degradation, especially over the last year in how long it takes to record a show, from almost instantaneous to (now) about 4 or 5 minutes, while displaying the "Please wait" message. I'm amazed that people are saying that the Tivo file system doesn't fragment, I thought for sure this was the problem. I don't hear any beeps and haven't seen any error messages. I don't have any other ideas as to what could be the slowdown.

Are there any definitive answers out there that have nothing to do with upgrading the box? I checked the Support Forum and found nothing.

Thanks. (Love Tivo and this Forum!)

ebonovic · 01-16-2006, 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jumi

Well it took 5 days but I got my first random reboot last night about 11:50 while recording on both tuners. Thank you 6.2. It's on a UPS and never did this on 3.1.1e. I don't know if slo-mo or rebooting is the more annoying.

If it took 5 days to do a Clear and Delete, and you are getting "random" reboots...

Your hard drive is failing...

Edit: Sorry didn't see the timeline on the posts... To the OP.. I would monitor your hard drive... As you had the symptoms of a failing hard drive.

Your 6.2 software image, is probably in the alternate partition space, which may have bad sectors.

Slow Mo playback... bad hard drive as it is correcting as it goes.

ebonovic · 01-16-2006, 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by databoy911

I have a Hughes DTV HR10-250 box which I've never upgraded (how would I do that?). I have 6 or7 Season passes, with the option to record Tivo Suggested shows turned off, and about 10 or 12 shows saved (about 15 hours worth) and about 2 or 3 hours being recorded in HD.

I have noticed a slow but steady degradation, especially over the last year in how long it takes to record a show, from almost instantaneous to (now) about 4 or 5 minutes, while displaying the "Please wait" message. I'm amazed that people are saying that the Tivo file system doesn't fragment, I thought for sure this was the problem. I don't hear any beeps and haven't seen any error messages. I don't have any other ideas as to what could be the slowdown.

Are there any definitive answers out there that have nothing to do with upgrading the box? I checked the Support Forum and found nothing.

Thanks. (Love Tivo and this Forum!)

Not really... It is just the nature of the TiVo software. As the hard drive fills, the unit slows... Not much you can do about it.

Deleting everything and starting over, will just temporarily fix things.

Upgrading... Your only option would be to drop a second drive in there, or a larger one. And ultimately as that one fills, it will get slower and slower.