7.2 killing my 810H

deadenders · 09-02-2005, 10:05 AM

My Pioneer 810H got the 7.2 upgrade last night. After the reboot it worked for about 15 minutes before glitching (freezing). At 1st I thought it was the Sat. signal. Switch TV inputs to view the Sat directly (I have one output to the TV, on to the Tivo) Sat was fine. By the time I switched back to the Tivo input the unit and completely frozen and would not respond to remote or anything. Pulled the plug to reboot. Now it locks up about every 15 mins or so. My Tivo is now useless. WTF??? Some upgrade.

petew · 09-02-2005, 12:27 PM

Have you upgraded the disk drive at all? If yes then the swap partition might be slightly too small. Typically this seems to manifest itself as problem booting, but it's conceivable that it could cause problems once the box was up and running.

If you haven't upgraded the box at all I'd suggest calling Tivo. The behavior your seeing isn't normal.

wgary · 09-02-2005, 01:52 PM

I haven't seen this with my Pioneer...

nigebj · 09-02-2005, 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wgary

I haven't seen this with my Pioneer...

Nor I. This sounds like a HD problem. As TiVo swaps partitions when it upgrades, it could be you are now using a defective part of the disk ?? Not sure there's a way to force a service change, or a step back if TiVo thinks it went well. I'd assume you could ask TiVo to provide a service update again, which would switch it back to the good partition (assuming that is the problem). Might be worth asking.

Of course if, like mine, your TiVo is never usually rebooted - then you're in teh classic HD failure situation, boot time is when you find out about the issues you never knew were there!

deadenders · 09-02-2005, 02:01 PM

It is an upgraded disk. A 250 if I recall. Not sure (off the top of my head) about how to go about changing the swap size.

deadenders · 09-02-2005, 04:50 PM

Any chance this could have something to do with a serial connection to a Direct TV box? The drive has worked fine and through many reboots for at long long time without any trouble so if find it a bit hard to belive it's the swap file.

petew · 09-02-2005, 05:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deadenders

Any chance this could have something to do with a serial connection to a Direct TV box? The drive has worked fine and through many reboots for at long long time without any trouble so if find it a bit hard to belive it's the swap file.

There have been a few reports of limited swap space causing problems during a reboot. It's recomended that you allocate 1Mb per 1Gb of disk space, with the default being 128Mb, so you should have 256Mb on your 250Gb drive. With each release Tivo add new functionality which requires additional resources and it seems that some users that didn't increase swap space while upgrading were OK on earlier releases but 7.2 put them over the edge.

Of course it might be some other HD problem but it's certainly worth checking swap space first as some of the HOWTO guides ommitted this step. AFAIK the only way to rebuild the swap space is to redo the upgrade process.

Semco · 09-03-2005, 01:18 PM

I just got the message that I got TTG on my 810H but when I looked on the system page I'm still running 5.2. Hopefully I wont have the same issues that you did when I get the update.

settsu · 09-03-2005, 03:10 PM

I too got the message saying I now have TiVoToGo, but the Setup screen doesn't reflect the change TiVo says I should see (Account & System Info replaces System Info).

I was all excited for nothing... boohoo

Tivortex · 09-03-2005, 08:39 PM

Ah ha! This explains why I had to specifically re-enable networking the other day, through a menu I've never seen before. I've got an upgraded 300GB drive, sure hope I don't start having the problems described here, 'cause I just can not deal with that kind of frustration.

Ba Boop · 09-04-2005, 04:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Semco

I just got the message that I got TTG on my 810H but when I looked on the system page I'm still running 5.2. Hopefully I wont have the same issues that you did when I get the update.

You have to restart for upgrade to install. First thing I noticed is, it now lists the name of a DVD in the machine. Never did that before. It now see's my laptop and desktops transferred shows. Transfer from laptop back to Tivo. Wow!!! It really works. I have an upgraded HD and it seems fine so far...

warner · 09-05-2005, 01:04 PM

I have the exact same problem with my Pioneer 810h also (upgraded to 250 hdd). Right after the 7.2 upgrade, it is freezing constantly. After reboot, it will freeze again after 5 or 10 minutes. Prior to this I did not have a single problem. Does anyone have a solution to this yet? Can I rollback to the pervious version? I have absolutely no use for TTG.

kerkules · 09-05-2005, 09:10 PM

I've got the same problem in an upgraded (250 gig) 810. Can't record to DVD, causes it to freeze immediately. Also freezes after watching recorded or recording shows. Never had any problems before the update.

vanreuter · 09-06-2005, 12:56 AM

I have 2 810h's both with 300+ gig HD (from Weaknees) and only ONE unit is having this problem. Has anyone contacted tivo? Are THEY even aware of the problem? Are we 810H owners, who suffers through a year of crappy picture quality before a software upgrade, going to get the sh t end of the stick again? Are we the EDSEL owners of the 21st century?

GVB

unconnoisseur · 09-06-2005, 12:42 PM

Well, I seem to have 7.2 problems on my Pioneer 810H, but they're different. No upgrades.

1. Consistently hangs for a very long time if I view another Tivo or my server and then left-click to return.

2. More than 50% of burns end with "internal error". It kills the DVD-R as well. Restarting doesn't seem to help. Power off/on seems to help until I trip over the problem again.

Has anybody seen this behavior?

-unc

JoshNJ · 09-06-2005, 12:55 PM

I have the same issue on my upgraded-harddrive 810h. My unit worked perfectly fine before the software upgrade. Freezes like every 15-20 minutes.

petew · 09-06-2005, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by petew

There have been a few reports of limited swap space causing problems during a reboot. It's recomended that you allocate 1Mb per 1Gb of disk space, with the default being 128Mb, so you should have 256Mb on your 250Gb drive.

I wrote this from memory and got the rule of thumb wrong, it's 1Mb of swap for every 2Gb of disk. So in theory for a 250Gb disk that would be 125Mb swap. Standard Tivo's have 128Mb which should be enough, however the DVD-recorder units have extra functionality so 128Mb may just not quite enough for a 250Gb disk. I don't own an 810H so I'm just analyzing the problem from my perspective as a software support enigneer, and it seems to be specific to 810H with 250Gb drives. So I'd suggest either using mfstools to rebuild your drive with more swap space or putting your old drive back and confirming that the 7.2 upgrade will work with a smaller disk.

dirtypacman · 09-06-2005, 01:36 PM

No problems here with a non-upgraded 810H running 7.2

wander2166 · 09-06-2005, 01:47 PM

This is crazy I also have a pioneer 810 with a 250 gig hd.I did not have any problems before this stupid upgrade.....I called Tivo and after waiting on hold for 20 min. they told me to call pioneer ,which I thought was crazy being the software is made by tivo. Anyways I called pioneer and the genius there I had two options either call tivo or erase all my settings formatting everything on the hd and re-install the update software.Nice choices .Now I am really pissed I call tivo back and sit another 20 min. on hold ,once a rep came on I explained the problem and they said to call pioneer so I told them what pioneer said.I asked them to explain to me how they can justify not having a fix and also charge me for a service I can't use.They said they were sorry....We'll guess what Tivo sorry doesn't cut it.
Any suggestions ?
Thanks

azitnay · 09-06-2005, 04:09 PM

As the rest of this thread states, test your hard drive. It's most likely failing.

Regardless, when you cracked your case and upgraded your hard drive, you lost your right to complain to TiVo when something goes wrong.

Drew

jules5671 · 09-06-2005, 04:44 PM

I have the same issue with my Pioneer 810 constantly crashing after about 15 mins. That makes 6 of us on this thread so I highly doubt it's a hard drive issue. If anybody finds a solution please let me know. This is so annoying!

wander2166 · 09-06-2005, 04:46 PM

No........It is a new HD.
Just because I opened my Tivo doesn't mean that I shouldn't get the services I pay for.
It only voids the warranty.

dirtypacman · 09-06-2005, 05:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wander2166

It only voids the warranty.

LOL which in all intents and purposes voids the service contract.

I understand your frustration but it looks like the issue may be with the upgraded hard drive. And this is something tivo can only be so helpful with. There software was most likely made and tested for units that are factory sealed.

If you buy a computer from Dell and then replace the Hard Drive and then your operating system does not work properly who's fault should this be.

Dell / Windows / or yourself?

With all that said ... I suggest :

a) you most likely have the stock hard drive it came with- you can either put that back in

or

b) take another shot at re-doing your upgrade

Lensman · 09-06-2005, 05:52 PM

Hey, my 810H with a Weaknees upgrade just started freezing every couple of days. I'll go home and check to see if it was recently upgraded to 7.2.

I was worried that it was a failing hard drive and was going to buy another drive today. Thank goodness for this forum!

warner · 09-06-2005, 05:57 PM

I want to add that my 250 gig drive is from Weaknees also. Along with the constant freezing, I just realize I can't seem to get into the Wishlist or Season Pass Manager screen. Nothing happens when I press Select over those items.

azitnay · 09-06-2005, 06:13 PM

Has anyone reporting the freezing problem in this thread actually pulled their drive and run manufacturer diagnostics on it? It would be nice to get a confirmation one way or another.

Drew

vanreuter · 09-06-2005, 07:05 PM

[quote=azitnay]As the rest of this thread states, test your hard drive. It's most likely failing.

The upgrade has a glitch in it. I have 2 810H's from Weaknees with 300 gig Hd's. One
is fine, the other isn't. Tivo sent the upgrade. Tivo is responsible for what happens. All the 810h's were ok, PRIOR to the software upgrade. If you don't have an 810,. what could you possibly know? Whatever the problem, there is a solution, and it's software based. Dirtypacman, you don't have an upgraded HD, so your input isn't helpful. This is a software glitch that should have been beta-tested with 810H owners. Only a loud and constant outcry to TIVO will solve this problem. Wise-acres who don't have the same unit or situation should find another thread.

GVB

wander2166 · 09-06-2005, 07:45 PM

After reading up on the freezing and calling tivo and pioneer....I decided that the only thing to do was re-do the upgrade I had made from an 80 gig to a 250 gig.
I copied my 250 gig hd and then expanded the drive once I restored it to the drive.
After the 7.2 update came down recording capacity was 170 hrs.
After I re-did the upgrade recording capacity was 326 hrs.
It has something to do with the swap file the 7.2 update creates.

After doing this I have no more freezing.....No help from tivo or pioneer.

petew · 09-06-2005, 08:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vanreuter

Wise-acres who don't have the same unit or situation should find another thread.

Agreed some of us trying to help on this thread don't have the same equipment otherwise we'd just try our suggestions and post the results. But what we do have is professional and personal experience with similar issues and we're trying to offer constructive advice.

So for those that are interested:

Firstly. As previously stated by opening your box and replacing the disk you void any warranty and right to support from Tivo or Pioneer. Though you may be able to get some help from weaknees if you purchased your upgrade from them.

Secondly. It does seem to be more than just a coincidence that upgraded systems are failing. Tivo and/or Panasonic would have tested the upgrade with the standard configurations, so until someone can demonstrate that the same problem occurs with the original disk drive, Tivo would be right to assume that the upgrade caused the problem.

Thirdly. Tivo's are designed to swap. That is the amount of memory needed is larger than the memory available. To solve this problem the Operating System "swaps" the contents of real memory to and from the disk drive as necessary. For this to work correctly the portion of the disk dedicated to "swap" needs to be large enough. As new functionality has been added to Tivo the amount of memory needed will have increased, also the amount of memory needed is affected by the size of the disk drive. So adding a larger disk will increase the amount of memory needed. If the maxiumum memory needed is even 1 byte less than that available your Tivo will operate normally, however if anything changes to push that requiremnt over the amount available problems will occur. So if someone is willing to be adventurous I would suggest taking out the disk and first run diagnostics on it. Then assuming you're willing to either sacrafice your recordings or have a spare large disk, use mfstools to backup and restore your disk using the -s 256 option to mfsretore which will create the larger swap space. I can't guarantee this will fix the problem but IMHO it's worth a shot.

Pete

petew · 09-06-2005, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wander2166

After I re-did the upgrade recording capacity was 326 hrs.
It has something to do with the swap file the 7.2 update creates.

After doing this I have no more freezing.....No help from tivo or pioneer.

Can you post the mfsrestore command you used to redo the upgrade?