I have Tivo Series 2 need to upgrade to 400GB. Question.

[hantousha]

I have Tivo Series 2 (40GB) need to upgrade to 400GB. Is there a clear instruction of how to go about it? Will it increase my capacity? I have Ver 7.1 of the software. will it automatically detect the extra space and increase my capacity i.e. does it have the limitation in the previous version of only 130GB LBA issue.

Will a Hitachi 400 GB work better or a Seagate 400 GB. Any help or links I can refere to will help. I read through the posts and could not find anything straight to the point.

Thanks.

[litzdog911]

Well, you won't find any instructions much clearer than Weaknee's step-by-step instructions (see their thread at the top of this forum). You don't need to worry about the LBA48 limitations as long as you use that latest LBA48-capable version of MFS Tools.

I think that either the Hitachi or Seagate will be fine.

[AnotherWin95]

I agree - I used Weaknesses instructions and did a 120GB upgrade and it went smoothly.

Now viewing 136 hour basic capacity on my TiVo.

[c3]

The largest partition you can create with MFSTools is 275GB, so you can use only 40GB+275GB=315GB of the drive. You need to get the 140-hour image (120GB) in order to maximize the usage of the 400GB drive.

[wscannell]

You should be able to use the whole 400GB drive by adding a -r 4 switch to the restore operation. This increases the allocation size for the drive allowing a larger than 274GB partition. The instructions may not show this switch, but it can be added.

[jsouthavalon05]

Yes... the -r 4 switch made it works. I tried to put 350GB+250GB the backup, the restore went o.k but wouldn't boot up. Once I put -r 4 in place it works

[mplotsker]

i too would like to upgrade to a 400gb drive in my series 2 tivo. my tivo service number starts with 540-0001. is this a "TiVo TCD540XXX model" mentioned in the hindsdale howto that has larger drive support? what is the largest drive i can put in my tivo.
is it possible to use symantec ghost to ghost the original tivo drive to a new one? one can expand the swap and data partitions using ghost i think.

thanks
m

[wscannell]

Ghost does not understand the mfs partitions that TiVo uses. mfstools is the best tool. Follow the Hinsdale instructions and you should be ok.

You TiVo should be ok for larger drives (software version 5.0 and later).

[hantousha]

I used MFStool 2.0 and it only gave me 147hours for a 400 gb drive? Is there a more recent version of the MFStools 2.0 that supports LBA48?

[weaknees]

hantousha-

You are likely booting into Linux with an older kernel that supports only 137 GB of a drive.

Michael

[weaknees]

mplotsker-

This model does have large drive support - but be aware of the issues surrounding partitions greater than 256 GB.

Michael

[hantousha]

Where can I get a bootable CD image for MFStool with the latest Linux kernel that would support drives larger than 137GB?

[wscannell]

Both weaknees and PTV upgrade have them available on their web sites. See ads at top of page.

[shifty]

Originally Posted by weaknees

mplotsker-

This model does have large drive support - but be aware of the issues surrounding partitions greater than 256 GB.

Michael

What are thes issues or where can I read more? The hindsdale guide mentions that TCD540XXX models aren't limited to 274GB (256GiB) partitions.

I'm digging around on this old topic (I'm newer member, using search) because I just ordered a 400GB and 300GB Seagate IDE drive and I'm wondering if I should just using MFSTools to partition out the 300 to 256GB or if I should just go for the gusto and partition out the full 400 for use ...I'm swapping out the drive.

hindsdale's guide makes it sound like the TCD540XXX can use any sized drive with no limitations.

I understand that the TCD540XXX, which is what I have, requires a specialized Mfs tools boot CD. Is this what you're referencing?

[atmuscarella]

If you follow the instructions from this site exactly:

http://tivo.upgrade-instructions.com/index.php

Including downloading the software needed from their links (ISO image & MaxBlast), you shouldn't have any problems with larger drives.

Good Luck

atmuscarella

[classicsat]

Originally Posted by shifty

What are thes issues or where can I read more?

The issue is block allocation size (I am not sure if it is a function of mfstools itself, or the mfs system in general.) Without the -r4 extension
The blocks are smaller, which means an up to 274 GB (256 GiB) partition. The -r4 option increases block size, allowing for the same amout of allocation units, only larger ones.

The theory is (using possibly hypothetical numbers.):

You can allocate only 262,144 allocation units per partition..

The default setting would set up 1 MiB blocks, which would mean up to a 256 GiB.
-r4 would allocate 4 GiB blocks, which means up to a 1024 Gib partition.

[shifty]

thanks guys.

this was a stupidly easy upgrade. it only took about 30 minutes once the stuff was collected. i got one of the new 400GB Seagate drives (they're quiet and 5yr warranty, beats the crap out of maxtor, WD and the others). i zipped through the upgrade (one disk replacement). it's as easy as setting up the drives correctly on the computer and typing one single command. granted, i know linux, but if you can follow a simple instruction and type a single command you're good to go.

i hear the TiVo crunching away. it says i now have up to 456 hours of record time. not bad. i'm happy

thanks for link atmuscarella, it helped a lot...and thanks for the heads-up classicsat.

i'll hafta hitup the weaKnees site and pick up a fan upgrade and some other stuff later this week. when these 400GB drives drop below $175, I'm going to upgrade to 800GB dual. i got this drive from Compuvest 's store with no rebates @ $220. Not sure what other mods might be helpful in this situation.

even though i know Seeagate has one of the most acoustically quiet drives on the market, the thing is still pretty noisy acoustically. it really made a mess of racket for the first 20 minutes after booting up. not sure why though.

[c3]

Originally Posted by shifty

even though i know Seagate has one of the most acoustically quiet drives on the market

No, Seagate doesn't. Rotational noise is generally no longer an issue with FDB motor. However, current Seagates do not support acoustic management, so their seek noise is louder than Maxtor/WD/Hitachi/Samsung (with AAM set to quiet).

[2004raptor]

Question on upgrading.
I have a Maxtor ide 250GB hard drive I have been using in my pc for a year or two now. I don't know the model # but it does have fluid bearings in it. It's not my main drive just something I store video,backups, music, etc. on.
My motherboard supports SATA (my main drive is a WD Raptor) so I was considering just buying a ~250GB SATA to replace the 250GB ide and using it (the ide) in my tivo.
Any issues since this drive has been used for a while in windows.

Also, when I take the plung I'd like to upgrade two tivos (mine and someone else's). So can I do everything at home on my pc/tivo and just go over to the other persons house with the drive and just simply open the case, remove the 40GB, and put the new one in. Or is there more to configuring it after the new drive is in?

[Lannister80]

Originally Posted by shifty

thanks guys.
i'll hafta hitup the weaKnees site and pick up a fan upgrade and some other stuff later this week. when these 400GB drives drop below $175, I'm going to upgrade to 800GB dual. i got this drive from Compuvest 's store with no rebates @ $220. Not sure what other mods might be helpful in this situation.

I hate to say it, but I got a pair of WD3200JB (320GB WD Caviar line, quiet, cool, 3 year warranty) drives for $122 each, so after the $30 WeaKnees kit (bracket, powertrip, etc), I have a 733 hr TiVo for a grand total cost of $303, plus a spare 80GB original drive (which I plan on keeping just in case).

$179 TiVo (540080) - $150 TiVo rebate + $244 for new drives + $30 WeaKnees kit.

[shifty]

Originally Posted by 2004raptor

Any issues since this drive has been used for a while in windows.

Since people would rather pick apart my stuff than answer, I'll take a stab.

Longevity might be a factor. All hardware has a lifespan and for most drives that seems to be getting shorter and shorter a lifespan. You're going to be dropping a previously used drive into your TiVo. If you keep the original around and safely stored (temp controlled, dry, no way to drop it), it shouldn't matter if the drive dies unless the programs on it are important to you.

Only issue I can see is you're going to lose your current data. Just for S&G, I'd personally use disk mgmt in windows to nuke any existing partitions so you're starting with a drive that is closest to "straight out of the box" as possible.

Originally Posted by 2004raptor

Also, when I take the plung I'd like to upgrade two tivos (mine and someone else's). So can I do everything at home on my pc/tivo and just go over to the other persons house with the drive and just simply open the case, remove the 40GB, and put the new one in.

Depends - you going to leave them w/a one disc setup or two disc setup? Is a two disc possible on your unit? I'll assume you're thinking about swapping out to a new single large drive because of that last sentence in there.

IMO it would be smarter to get their drive out, put it in a static-safe bag and drag it home to dupe it.

Understand that all you're doing is using the WeaKnees CD to mirror the old drive onto the new, larger one...so if you mirror yours twice and put the mirrored drive in the other person's TiVo, the other person will get all of your settings and crap and, in turn, lose theirs. You could still do it though, as long as you choose the correct options in the link provided above by atmuscarella, you can get the correct instructions for modifying the hardware ID or whatever. I would get both drives together, dupe each individually, then drag the disc over to the other system and install it.

When you see how stupid-easy it is, you'll kick yourself

Originally Posted by 2004raptor

Or is there more to configuring it after the new drive is in?

Nope. Mine crunched away for a few minutes after boot when I did the swap, boot time seemed about the same. Nothing was changed and I did nothing but go into the menu and see that 456 hours were reporting instead of 40. I was happy

[shifty]

Originally Posted by Lannister80

I hate to say it, but I got a pair of WD3200JB drives for $122 each, so after the $30 WeaKnees kit (bracket, powertrip, etc), I have a 733 hr TiVo for a grand total cost of $303, plus a spare 80GB original drive (which I plan on keeping just in case).

I wasn't prepared to take the plunge into two drives yet and didn't want to buy the spare bracket. I was looking for a quick way to dectuple my recording abilities while keeping the cost around $200. I still won't buy WD products; be sure to keep your original 80hr drive, you'll need it when one of them fails.

You could call me jaded, but I work in DVB/MPEG and we have gaggles of hard drives we run through for video spooling working with CA subsystem testing. I buy hundreds of hard drives per year and this is outside the stuff I do on my personal time with studio stuff (primarily sound editing). I abuse the hell out of drives, it's been my personal experience that drive quality has greatly reduced in the past half decade with WD and Maxtor primarily. The old Quantum drives were really exceptional (especially the SCSI fireballs) but the new ones...I bet you lose one of those two in the first 24 months.

Originally Posted by c3

No, Seagate doesn't. Rotational noise is generally no longer an issue with FDB motor. However, current Seagates do not support acoustic management, so their seek noise is louder than Maxtor/WD/Hitachi/Samsung (with AAM set to quiet).

That's not what I'm reading. I'm not trying to flex e-nuts here, but a quick trip the the manuf'er website to compare Lannister80's drive (for example) to my new drive shows:

Seagate ST3400633A 400GB...2.8 bels idle, 3.2 bels seek acoustics (translation: ~28db idle, ~32db seek)

http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/...81,706,00.html

WD3200JB...Idle Mode 28 dBA (average), 'Seek Mode 0' 33 dBA (average)

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?DriveID=117

Looks like to me they're basically the same...with Seagate winning on the standard seek mode noise level and also on most of the other drives (this one is the noisiest, most are @ ~25db idle per drive on 70% of their drives and ~30db per drive on about the same figure of the current line) And WD sporting ~30db on idle (the BB series is really horrid @34db on idle) and ~34 on regular seek for most drives.

That's not to mention that most of your mainstream drives for WD in particular (since they're being used as an example) only have that crappy 1yr warranty (says a lot about their product...) I'm sorry, but if it comes down to such marginal numbers as 1db of noise more (although it doesn't) and I get 2-4 years of longer warranty, who the heck cares if it's +/- 1db ?

I do believe the other manufacturers are catching up to Seagate in noise control. I don't really agree with you on the quiet of the drive.

I'm open to make this a clean debate if you can keep it civil. You can twist numbers any way you want though, so the old adage "fighting on the internet is like running in the special olympics - even if you win..." might apply in this case and it may just be best to drop it .

[c3]

Originally Posted by shifty

Seagate ST3400633A 400GB...2.8 bels idle, 3.2 bels seek acoustics (translation: ~28db idle, ~32db seek)

http://www.seagate.com/cda/products/...81,706,00.html

WD3200JB...Idle Mode 28 dBA (average), 'Seek Mode 0' 33 dBA (average)

http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?DriveID=117

WD's seek mode 3 is 29 dBA. That's why people should set it to the quiet seek mode, and that's why the WD and other brands are quieter than Seagate. I have Seagates in my PC, where there seek noise is less of an issue.

[2004raptor]

Originally Posted by shifty

Longevity might be a factor.

Yeah, I considered that. Guess I was secretly looking for a way to get a bigger SATA HD for my main box. I'll end up just buying ~250GB IDE for the swap.

Originally Posted by shifty

Only issue I can see is you're going to lose your current data.

This is one place I am confused (more on that later). I thought if I remove the original 40 GB tivo drive connect it to a pc w/a fat32 FS I would be copying the entire contents to that FAT drive. Then it would all be copied to the new ~250GB drive?? Is that not true? Don't get me wrong I don't have anything on the tivo I have to keep. No big deal to start fresh.

Originally Posted by shifty

Depends - you going to leave them w/a one disc setup or two disc setup? Is a two disc possible on your unit? I'll assume you're thinking about swapping out to a new single large drive because of that last sentence in there.

I was planning a one disk setup. Swap the 40 for a ~250.

Originally Posted by shifty

IMO it would be smarter to get their drive out, put it in a static-safe bag and drag it home to dupe it.

OK, I will experiment with mine and try to make theirs go as smooth as possible.

Originally Posted by shifty

Understand that all you're doing is using the WeaKnees CD to mirror the old drive onto the new, larger one...so if you mirror yours twice and put the mirrored drive in the other person's TiVo, the other person will get all of your settings and crap and, in turn, lose theirs. You could still do it though, as long as you choose the correct options in the link provided above by atmuscarella, you can get the correct instructions for modifying the hardware ID or whatever. I would get both drives together, dupe each individually, then drag the disc over to the other system and install it.

This is where I am totally confused. Sorry for the stupid question but how many hard drives are needed in this entire ordeal?
1. The original tivo.
2. The new drive that will replace the original tivo drive.
3. Another FAT32 drive that the original will be copied to and then transferred to the new one????

Originally Posted by shifty

When you see how stupid-easy it is, you'll kick yourself

I hope you are right but I have a feeling I'm going to need some serious help with this.

See, I read through the Weaknees thread but got confused regarding how/where/what you set as a swap file. also I saw something about TPIP and I have no clue as to waht that is. the thing that scares me the most is that the weakness guide seems very good to me but some people talk about things that should be added/updated. That's where I'm probably going to have grief.

First I need to see waht size/brand hard drive I'm going to go with and then jump on this.

[c3]

Originally Posted by shifty

That's not to mention that most of your mainstream drives for WD in particular (since they're being used as an example) only have that crappy 1yr warranty (says a lot about their product...)

One more thing. Longer warranty does NOT mean better product. The exact same WD drive is sold with 1-year warranty as retail kit and 3-year warranty as bare drive. Seagate is my preferred drive for non-DVR application because of its longer warranty, but not because I think Seagate is more reliable.

[shifty]

Originally Posted by 2004raptor

This is one place I am confused (more on that later). I thought if I remove the original 40 GB tivo drive connect it to a pc w/a fat32 FS I would be copying the entire contents to that FAT drive. Then it would all be copied to the new ~250GB drive?? Is that not true?

I mean you'll lose the data that's currently on the drive (because it will be overwritten by the Tivo data). You'd need to ghost the drive.

Originally Posted by 2004raptor

This is where I am totally confused. Sorry for the stupid question but how many hard drives are needed in this entire ordeal?
1. The original tivo.
2. The new drive that will replace the original tivo drive.
3. Another FAT32 drive that the original will be copied to and then transferred to the new one????

You need one Tivo drive, one upgrade hard drive and one computer with a CDROM drive for *each* transfer you'll be doing. I think you're reading into what I'm typing too little or too much.

I am simply trying to tell you - you don't want to use your drive, make two copies of it to new hard drives and the install one of those drives into the second Tivo - if you do, both Tivos will have the same data and settings on them and I don't think you want that.

Originally Posted by 2004raptor

I hope you are right but I have a feeling I'm going to need some serious help with this.

I doubt it.

Do you know how to set a jumper on a hard drive?
Do you understand master and slave?

All you do is print out the results of the install guide. To prevent a problem, remove your Windows drive. Then setup both the Tivo original and Tivo upgrade hard drives, one as master, one as slave. Boot to the Weaknees CD. Verify the drive sizes as explained in the install guide. Read the 'mfsbackup' line closely and understand the parts in parenthesis are not important unless you are using two drives. Type the command. walk away, come back, shut down, safely store the original Tivo drive, install the new one, boot and you're done.

If you're not comfortable with it or what I typed sounds hard, easy solution...don't do it.

Originally Posted by 2004raptor

See, I read through the Weaknees thread but got confused regarding how/where/what you set as a swap file.

What swapfile? You should just use the link posted by atmuscarella above. I didn't see anything in mine about a swapfile anywhere.

Originally Posted by 2004raptor

also I saw something about TPIP and I have no clue as to waht that is. the thing that scares me the most is that the weakness guide seems very good to me but some people talk about things that should be added/updated. That's where I'm probably going to have grief.

Use the link atmuscarella posted a few posts up. I wouldn't use anything else. It's as easy as that.

First I need to see waht size/brand hard drive I'm going to go with and then jump on this.[/quote]

[shifty]

Originally Posted by c3

One more thing. Longer warranty does NOT mean better product.

Totally OT at this point, but ...

I can tell you based on experience working with mpeg spooling (which is all a Tivo is doing) and bricking out (killing) a bunch of drives for several years I've experienced less drive failure with Seagate than any other. Call it what you want, that's just what I've seen.

The fact that Seagate is the only manuf'er on the market right now offering this kind of warranty ensures that they're either stupid or they have faith in their product. While Maxtor and WD in particular were going from 3yr warranty to 1yr warranty, while Seagate went from 3yr to 5yr warranty. What is the consumer supposed to think? Same priced drive. Same general acoustics. One has 5x the warranty.

Originally Posted by c3

The exact same WD drive is sold with 1-year warranty as retail kit and 3-year warranty as bare drive.

So, now they're robbing the consumer as well as ripping them off. I dunno about you, but I can't support a manuf'er like that ... especially over 2-3db with AAM enabled

[2004raptor]

Thanks for your patience shifty.

Originally Posted by shifty

I mean you'll lose the data that's currently on the drive (because it will be overwritten by the Tivo data). You'd need to ghost the drive.

OK, just to clarify since I have failed to explain it very well. I will not use my current drive that's in my windows pc. I will be getting a brand new drive for the swap. So I will only need two drives, the original tivo and the new drive (future tivo drive).

Originally Posted by shifty

You need one Tivo drive, one upgrade hard drive and one computer with a CDROM drive for *each* transfer you'll be doing.

Gotcha. I will be pulling my XP drive out of my spare pc and putting the original tivo drive in it as well as the new drive that I will end up using in the tivo.

Originally Posted by shifty

I am simply trying to tell you - you don't want to use your drive, make two copies of it to new hard drives and the install one of those drives into the second Tivo - if you do, both Tivos will have the same data and settings on them and I don't think you want that..

As I said earlier, I will just do my swap and then (at a later date) do the other swap. I understand about not wanting the same settings, etc.

Originally Posted by shifty

Do you know how to set a jumper on a hard drive?
Do you understand master and slave?.

I've built/upgraded numerous pc's. jumpers, master/slave stuff is no problem. The linux/command line stuff is a little confusing but hopefully the guide will make that a non-issue.

Originally Posted by shifty

All you do is print out the results of the install guide. To prevent a problem, remove your Windows drive. Then setup both the Tivo original and Tivo upgrade hard drives, one as master, one as slave. Boot to the Weaknees CD. Verify the drive sizes as explained in the install guide. Read the 'mfsbackup' line closely and understand the parts in parenthesis are not important unless you are using two drives. Type the command. walk away, come back, shut down, safely store the original Tivo drive, install the new one, boot and you're done.

Thanks for that. It a nice, straight to the point, explanation.

Originally Posted by shifty

What swapfile? You should just use the link posted by atmuscarella above. I didn't see anything in mine about a swapfile anywhere.?.

That's waht I was saying. I don't see it in the actual weakness guide but in the big, upgrade thread people were talking about setting a swap file up dependant on the size of the new drive. They also discussed TPIP in that same thread.


Again, thanks for your input on this.

[2004raptor]

shifty,
just to clarify waht I was talking about, here are a few random quotes I copied from the weakness upgrade thread.

Your new instructions partially take into account large drives. You added the "-r 4" option to mfsrestore but did nothing to deal with the need for larger swap.

you only need tpip if you go over 127Mb swap. So if you use the -s 127 or -s 124 don't worry about tpip. Since you are going 160Gb you should need about 130Mb swap...

Replaced stock 40GB with a new 300GB (copying shows and setting up a 192MB swap file) for the third TIVO yesterday.

I GUESS I could do tpip if I had to, but it would be nice if someone would make it easier by summarizing what you would actually need to do for larger drives in just one post.

So, my original point was that, according to others, the weakness guide doesn't cover tpip/swap files. Maybe it's been updated. I just want to make sure I have all my bases covered before I do this.

[c3]

Originally Posted by shifty

So, now they're robbing the consumer as well as ripping them off. I dunno about you, but I can't support a manuf'er like that ... especially over 2-3db with AAM enabled

WD is not ripping people off. Retail drives are usually sold with rebate offers, making the final prices much lower then bare drives. Most of my drives have been purchased with rebates. Different pricing structure, different warranty.

2-3db of seek noise in the operating region makes a big difference between acceptable and not acceptable. Obviously the noise level is acceptable to you. It is not for many people, in DVR application.