Mac Users lack Tivo togo support

[tonyf3]

This is a joke right?
They don't take email anymore but you got Tom Rodgers to respond to you?
You should have sent him the link to this thread.
Post his email address so we can all give him a piece of our minds.
Although I think Cwoody will just go off on him just for the hell of it.

So instead of "TiVo is working hard on supporting TTG for Mac"
It's now: "We are working on the Mac issues hard." Almost 3 years from the announcement, and 2 years from initial release.
Way to stay on message Tom! OMG!!!!

[derekcbart]

All corporate TiVo email addresses are firstinitiallastname@tivo.com, so Tom Rogers is trogers@tivo.com. I wrote to everyone listed on the TiVo Executive Management Team page using that format and only one email was returned.

Tom Rogers has been responding to every email regarding the Series 3 VIP Shipping Fiasco. The initial email response is a form letter, but if you reply to the form letter then he answers you personally (if a little cryptic).

[cwoody222]

F'in' joke. Seriously.

[icurnvs]

What I don't understand is why the NowPlaying dashboard widget has no problems downloading Tivo shows off my Tivo and it's so hard to get Tivo (the company) to get TivoToGo support to us. Is it the playback of the .tivo files that's so hard? <shrug>

[cwoody222]

Originally Posted by icurnvs

Is it the playback of the .tivo files that's so hard? <shrug>

Yes.

[tonyf3]

Originally Posted by derekcbart

All corporate TiVo email addresses are firstinitiallastname@tivo.com, so Tom Rogers is trogers@tivo.com. I wrote to everyone listed on the TiVo Executive Management Team page using that format and only one email was returned.

Tom Rogers has been responding to every email regarding the Series 3 VIP Shipping Fiasco. The initial email response is a form letter, but if you reply to the form letter then he answers you personally (if a little cryptic).

Thanks!
I will show restraint in articulating how disenfranchised we feel.

[donsullivan]

Originally Posted by derekcbart

All corporate TiVo email addresses are firstinitiallastname@tivo.com, so Tom Rogers is trogers@tivo.com. I wrote to everyone listed on the TiVo Executive Management Team page using that format and only one email was returned.

Tom Rogers has been responding to every email regarding the Series 3 VIP Shipping Fiasco. The initial email response is a form letter, but if you reply to the form letter then he answers you personally (if a little cryptic).

While I can't directly dispute that you indeed heard from Tom Rogers directly in the email, I do have to wonder if it was actually him or a PR resources. In companies I've worked for in the past, the CEO's common format email address was actually routed to the Customer Relations group who responded to nearly 95% of the contacts received. We created a separate non-standard addressing format address that the CEO used for his own correspondence. He then had the choice of who he provided that email address to and only reviewed messages to that address.

It's actually a very common technique used by many senior executives of companies so they don't get flooded with emails directly from customers that they couldn't possibly have time or appropriate data to respond to accurately. It ensures that the customer gets a consistent response and keeps the executive out of the weeds a little.

In these cases, the CR folks would route the messages around the company for answers and then reply back as if it was him responding with the party line response, or specific details as appropriate. If the message should go to the CEO they could forward it to the private mailbox.

[cwoody222]

I'd hope that that poorly worded 3 sentence reply came from a 'busy CEO' himself rather than an underling who's job is to represent the CEO.

If I was a CEO and someone sent an email on my behalf with the phrase "working on the mac issues hard" I'd fire them.

[Bighouse]

I can see any technology developer making decisions on where to pour their R&D dollars (and support dollars) in terms of market share and all of that, so I won't belabor that issue.

But, what I don't get is if all of the recent "PC bashing" Apple ads I see on TV touting the ability of apples to do anything a PC can do, only faster, better, more hip, cooler, etc (right out of the box)....AND, all of the sales persons tell me (as do so many of my Apple friends) that they can emulate a PC and run any kind of software on it they want to, why this is such an issue for you guys with Macs?

I thought you could emulate and run Windows on your Macs? Educate me please. Why can't you simply run your Intel/Windows based Tivo software in emulation mode?

[cwoody222]

Originally Posted by Bighouse

I thought you could emulate and run Windows on your Macs? Educate me please. Why can't you simply run your Intel/Windows based Tivo software in emulation mode?

'Cause I have a PowerPC Mac.

'Cause I don't want to reboot. 'Cause I don't want to reboot into my secondary OS to do a basic function.

'Cause I own an Intel Mac but not a software license for Windows.

'Cause emulation programs can be slow.

'Cause I don't want to have to reboot into Windows just to run a decrypting program (that is not authorized by TiVo) and then have to get the file back to my preferred OS for playback.

'Cause TiVo promised us and owes us the same functionality Windows users enjoy.

'Cause I said so

[Fofer]

cwoody222, tonyf3, just curious as you both seem to be amongst the most persistent in this thread... why have you not just hacked your TiVo's already? TiVoTool works like a charm, and offers a lot that TiVoDesktop does not.

Yeah, I know that this "petition" to get TiVo to deliver as promised is much about the principle of it all, but in the meantime, you'd could enjoy all of the same benefits, with none of this silly aggravation and corporate double-speak. Life's too short to wait/complain/wait/be disappointed/wait/complain all the time.

[Bighouse]

Originally Posted by cwoody222

'Cause I have a PowerPC Mac.

'Cause I don't want to reboot. 'Cause I don't want to reboot into my secondary OS to do a basic function.

'Cause I own an Intel Mac but not a software license for Windows.

'Cause emulation programs can be slow.

'Cause I don't want to have to reboot into Windows just to run a decrypting program (that is not authorized by TiVo) and then have to get the file back to my preferred OS for playback.

'Cause TiVo promised us and owes us the same functionality Windows users enjoy.

'Cause I said so

Sounds complicated. I thought Macs were easy and elegant?

[Fofer]

Originally Posted by Bighouse

I thought Macs were easy and elegant?

Did you really? Or are you just baiting?

[Bighouse]

Originally Posted by Fofer

Did you really? Or are you just baiting?

A little bit of both! I actually wish I could run a Mac- but not because I think they're better- I do think they're more beautiful by far than any PC could ever be. I'd love to work with a machine on a daily basis and at home that had such a clean line and attention to design and detailing that the Mac does.
But, I have to choose my box based on the software I need to run for my job and occupation, not the other way around. No computer manufacturing company owns my soul...but I'd much rather have a pretty box than an ugly one if all other things were equal!

So, as someone interested in good/elegant design (I'm an architect with modernistic leanings) I've always enjoyed the products Apple has put out, but only from a distance. I'm intrigued by them and EVERY time I go to CompUSA and study their clean lines while there for some other purchase. The salesmen always come up to me and say (after I tell them the software packages I MUST be able to run) "Oh, you can run that on a Mac in emulation mode, it's easy and it works great"...and I know from others, like yourself, that it's not always rosy and easy and elegant.

So, I'm always slightly confused by the product, in part because of its followers. I'm also slightly amused that the greatest designed box out in the world, has the least support and software available for it...and yet its acolytes typically fall lockstep in stride, failing to see that perhaps its greatest strength is its true weakness. I'm reminded of the 1984 great commercial apple made, tossing the hammer of apple into the IBM dictator- and somehow feel that the cultish followers of the 1984 figure might actually be Apple advocates themselves.

[Fofer]

Originally Posted by Bighouse

I'm also slightly amused that the greatest designed box out in the world, has the least support and software available for it...

This part just isn't true. There are a few frustrating standouts (ie: witness this thread) but there's lots and lots of support and lots and lots of software in the Mac ecosystem. I like to think about it this way: There may be 100,000 apps for Windows, but only 1,000 are any good... the rest suck! There may be 10,000 apps for Mac, but 3,000 of them are excellent.

And I only need 100 of them, anyway.

[geekmedic]

I also received a cryptic email from Tom Rogers about TTG for Mac: "stay tuned."

I think they are developing software for the Mac. Perhaps it got delayed with the switch to Intel chips (and they wanted to make it Universal), perhaps it had features in it that waited on the release of the Series 3 and CableLabs approval, or perhaps they have features in it that can't be released right now.

Imagine if the holdup for TTG for Mac was due to compatibility with Apple's recently previewed iTV device. If you could use TTG for Mac to move things from your TiVo to the iTV, or if TiVo software was written for the iTV, then it would justify holding TTG for Mac until the iTV was released.

I think TiVo is up to something that can justify the delay.

[Bighouse]

Originally Posted by Fofer

And I only need 100 of them, anyway.

We're actually in the same boat in an odd way. I'm in it because I have to choose my box based on my software needs while you have to choose your software based on your box's needs.

I do await for a day, in the near future I think, when Apple comes out with an entirely WINDOWS based box. I'll buy that one for sure...and I think the begrudgingly/smearing/flaming advertisement campaign currently underway for their Intel based boxes portend a trend that will one day (I hope) lead to an all Windows based Apple of some sort.

I love some programs that were originally written for the Apple. I use Adobe Photoshop a lot, and Premiere as well. Do you run any applications originally targeted exclusively for a Windows box like Outlook, MS Office, Excel, Word, IE or any others?

Again, I'm not baiting- I really am engaged by Apples products and hope one day I can legitimize owning one.

[Fofer]

Originally Posted by geekmedic

Imagine if the holdup for TTG for Mac was due to compatibility with Apple's recently previewed iTV device. If you could use TTG for Mac to move things from your TiVo to the iTV, or if TiVo software was written for the iTV, then it would justify holding TTG for Mac until the iTV was released.

Oh my. You are a much bigger optimist than I. (And I'm a pretty big optimist.)

No. When/if TTG for Mac comes out, I predict it will be elegant and stable, but with a subset of the features that the Windows counterpart has. And it certainly wouldn't interface with the iTV. It'll have some proprietary DRM wrapper that restricts it, or something.

It would be cool if TiVo somehow worked out using Apple "Fairplay" DRM... but I just can't see it. The track record (of both companies) tells me otherwise.

[Fofer]

Originally Posted by Bighouse

I do await for a day, in the near future I think, when Apple comes out with an entirely WINDOWS based box. I'll buy that one for sure...and I think the begrudgingly/smearing/flaming advertisement campaign currently underway for their Intel based boxes portend a trend that will one day (I hope) lead to an all Windows based Apple of some sort.

I don't think you'll see something like that. What you will see, more likely, is an update to OS X that'll include the ability to run Windows apps more seamlessly. Think the next generation of BootCamp (Windows partition, rebooting necessary); Parallels (Windows virtualization, run apps in a window); CrossOver (run Windows apps within the Mac environment) leading the way to ... one OS that rules them all and can run any and all apps. I have to say, CrossOver is pretty sleek and paves the way for that sort of notion.

http://www.codeweavers.com/products/cxmac/

Originally Posted by Bighouse

Do you run any applications originally targeted exclusively for a Windows box like Outlook, MS Office, Excel, Word, IE or any others?

Sure, I use Word and Excel.

Keynote is better than Powerpoint, and Safari is better than IE.

I recently switched from Entourage (Microsoft's version of Outlook for Mac) to Gmail, but Apple's Mail program is a worthy contender too.

[cwoody222]

Originally Posted by Fofer

cwoody222, tonyf3, just curious as you both seem to be amongst the most persistent in this thread... why have you not just hacked your TiVo's already? TiVoTool works like a charm, and offers a lot that TiVoDesktop does not.

I've read the instructions. I'm not that savvy enough nor do I have access things like a linux HD to hook up to my TiVo or taking out the TiVo HD and plugging it into a PC or any of the other stuff I've used.

My home equipment consists of an old CRT iMac and the TiVo and a Wireless network... not quite enough to do the hacking myself.

And I haven't had the desire to send it out somewhere and pay for it to be hacked.

[cwoody222]

Originally Posted by geekmedic

I also received a cryptic email from Tom Rogers about TTG for Mac: "stay tuned."

I think they are developing software for the Mac. Perhaps it got delayed with the switch to Intel chips (and they wanted to make it Universal), perhaps it had features in it that waited on the release of the Series 3 and CableLabs approval, or perhaps they have features in it that can't be released right now.

Imagine if the holdup for TTG for Mac was due to compatibility with Apple's recently previewed iTV device. If you could use TTG for Mac to move things from your TiVo to the iTV, or if TiVo software was written for the iTV, then it would justify holding TTG for Mac until the iTV was released.

I think TiVo is up to something that can justify the delay.

Justify the 2 year delay?

Nah, don't think so.

They just haven't been able to figure it out yet. "Wah wah, it's too hard", they say. "Give us more time, we're trying really hard, we swear!" they say.

I stopped believing anything they said long ago.

The ONLY time I will believe any progress is/had being made is the day they offer the final Mac software for public download.

[timg]

Originally Posted by Bighouse

Do you run any applications originally targeted exclusively for a Windows box like Outlook, MS Office, Excel, Word, IE or any others?

Excel was actually released for Mac before it was released on Windows (actually before there was a real "Windows" OS - I don't count Windows 1.0 as a real OS).

[EwanG]

But Tivo IS listening! The Series 3 has come out, and doesn't support TTG or GoBack. So now Windows and Mac users have the same user experience...

[Unix_Beard]

Originally Posted by Bighouse

We're actually in the same boat in an odd way. I'm in it because I have to choose my box based on my software needs while you have to choose your software based on your box's needs.

I do await for a day, in the near future I think, when Apple comes out with an entirely WINDOWS based box. I'll buy that one for sure...and I think the begrudgingly/smearing/flaming advertisement campaign currently underway for their Intel based boxes portend a trend that will one day (I hope) lead to an all Windows based Apple of some sort.

I love some programs that were originally written for the Apple. I use Adobe Photoshop a lot, and Premiere as well. Do you run any applications originally targeted exclusively for a Windows box like Outlook, MS Office, Excel, Word, IE or any others?

Again, I'm not baiting- I really am engaged by Apples products and hope one day I can legitimize owning one.

If you honestly believe Steve Jobs would come out with a Windows box, you haven't been following along. It will be a cold day in hell when Jobs puts an inferior operating system on his machines.

I just got one those nifty new Intel iMacs. I set it up to dual boot Windows and I still haven't come up with anything to use the Windows partition for. Even when I have to administer a Windows box for work, I still end up using the RDC client for Macintosh.

[Unix_Beard]

Originally Posted by Bighouse

A little bit of both! I actually wish I could run a Mac- but not because I think they're better- I do think they're more beautiful by far than any PC could ever be. I'd love to work with a machine on a daily basis and at home that had such a clean line and attention to design and detailing that the Mac does.
But, I have to choose my box based on the software I need to run for my job and occupation, not the other way around. No computer manufacturing company owns my soul...but I'd much rather have a pretty box than an ugly one if all other things were equal!

So, as someone interested in good/elegant design (I'm an architect with modernistic leanings) I've always enjoyed the products Apple has put out, but only from a distance. I'm intrigued by them and EVERY time I go to CompUSA and study their clean lines while there for some other purchase. The salesmen always come up to me and say (after I tell them the software packages I MUST be able to run) "Oh, you can run that on a Mac in emulation mode, it's easy and it works great"...and I know from others, like yourself, that it's not always rosy and easy and elegant.

So, I'm always slightly confused by the product, in part because of its followers. I'm also slightly amused that the greatest designed box out in the world, has the least support and software available for it...and yet its acolytes typically fall lockstep in stride, failing to see that perhaps its greatest strength is its true weakness. I'm reminded of the 1984 great commercial apple made, tossing the hammer of apple into the IBM dictator- and somehow feel that the cultish followers of the 1984 figure might actually be Apple advocates themselves.

The short answer to your question above is that most Mac users have PowerPC based Macs and not Intel Macs. Intel macs can run Windows XP natively and dual boot. Even people that own Intel Macs would rather not shell out $199 for a Windows XP license.

I'm curious. What software do you use that shackles you to a PC?

Are you old enough to be aware of the context of the 1984 commercial?

[SullyND]

Originally Posted by Unix_Beard

If you honestly believe Steve Jobs would come out with a Windows box, you haven't been following along. It will be a cold day in hell when Jobs puts an inferior operating system on his machines.

Really? I doubt Windows would ever be the default OS, but installing Windows as an application (as a means to a seemless bootcamp/parallels type experience) I can certainly see.

Originally Posted by Unix_Beard

I'm curious. What software do you use that shackles you to a PC?

My guess is, as an architect, he is tied to AutoCAD as am I.

[Puppy76]

Bighouse, there's no emulation needed at all on any current (Intel based) Macs. You just run Windows directly (or side by side with OS X with virtualization software, or run programs through Wine, etc.).

You could buy a Mac now and only run Windows on it, if you really wanted to.

Anyway, Tivo's lack of OS X support is pretty uncommon, and is Tivo's fault. They just need software that decrypts their DRM and passes it to a video player (or to iDVD, whatever.). It's especially weird as it's THEIR DRM, and on top of that there are plenty of open source players they could modify if for some reason Quicktime or the DVD player aren't suitable as players.

[Bighouse]

Originally Posted by SullyND

My guess is, as an architect, he is tied to AutoCAD as am I.

Correct. AutoCAD hasn't been coded for a Mac platform since release 12, and that was like...oh, centuries ago. And I doubt very much that it would run perfectly on even an Intel based Mac box...it often doesn't run well enough even for the platform it's written for!!!

And yes, Unix_Beard, I'm certainly old enough to remember the content of the 1984 commercial- I'm probably older than you! I was born in the 50's...does that quality me as having been around long enough???

Cheers,

Robert

[Bighouse]

Originally Posted by Unix_Beard

If you honestly believe Steve Jobs would come out with a Windows box, you haven't been following along. It will be a cold day in hell when Jobs puts an inferior operating system on his machines.

Please, I've never called the Apple inferior- don't go getting yourself worked up with hystrionics. I do admire the machines...just can't use one. We get what we deserve- and if you choose a system that has a very small market share, then you get the software that developers can legitimately affort to market for it.

I think that the "it will be a cold day in hell" line was probably said long ago by many other Apple users too. Only they probably said something like "It will be a cold day in hell when Jobs puts the ability to run Windows on one of his machines or jumps into the sack with Intel."

Hell could freeze over. Anything's possible. Actually, if Apple really wanted to rock the world, they'd do just that. Imagine the power and might and cache Jobs would have if suddenly his computers were the standard used in the business and consumer industry? Imagine if Apple had a 90% share of computers worldwide and not 4-10%.

[Puppy76]

But you can buy one to use exclusivly for Windows now, and it would be somewhat pointless if they started just selling Windows PCs. I'm sure as a last ditch thing they might, but probably their market share's only going to grow with their current hardware.