Where to get a "big" multiswitch?

Rob00GT · 12-02-2004, 12:05 PM

Over the last couple of weeks I've been helping my father-in-law wire his new home (still under construction) for network and TV. Naturally I insisted he run 2 coax cables to each room just in case he later decides to add a DirecTivo. Here's the problem, it's a really BIG house and now I need a multiswitch to service all those rooms.

Anyone know where I should start my search for a DirecTV compliant "cascadable" multiswitch with 5 inputs (4 from the dish and 1 from broadcast antennae) and at least 16 outputs?

litzdog911 · 12-02-2004, 12:16 PM

I've had good luck with http://www.solidsignal.com

They have a couple different 5x16 multiswitches on their web site.

ebonovic · 12-02-2004, 12:31 PM

To save some money (a lot) actually.
It takes more room then one integrated switch, but it will cost about $100 total, vs $450ish for an integrated one... and works just as good.

Get TWO 5x8 multiswitches, preferable the same brand.
Get FOUR 2way splitters that pass the DC on one leg only (Youy can get them on ebay for around $2 each)
Get EIGHT short coax cables, either make them or go with the ones from smarthome.com

Send your SAT lines into the splitters.
Then matchup the outputs of those splitters to the multiswitch.
KEEP the dc passing leg's to one switch, and make sure the inputs match on both swiches.

Mount the switches and spliters to a small piece of plywood.
Boom. 5x16 multiswitch, for $100.
In the future if you need 24... You can just get one more 5x8, replace the two way's with three way...ect...

Alternative method would to use 3 5x8 multiswitches.
Feed the sat lines to one, then the 8 outputs to the two other switches, to get 16..

feldon23 · 12-02-2004, 12:31 PM

You realize you can use splitters with multiple 4x8 multiswitches to get 16 or 24 outputs, right?

Rob00GT · 12-02-2004, 01:45 PM

I hadn't really thought about it, but feldon23 are you saying to take two 4x8 multiswitches and plug them into my first 5x8 multiswitch for a total of 16 outputs? In theory I guess that would work too....

Jonathan_S · 12-02-2004, 02:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Rob00GT
I hadn't really thought about it, but feldon23 are you saying to take two 4x8 multiswitches and plug them into my first 5x8 multiswitch for a total of 16 outputs? In theory I guess that would work too....

Well you could, but that would be more expensive than the 4 splitters + 2 4(or 5)x8 multiswitch setup ebonovic and feldon23 were talking about.

I know that normally we say you can't split satellite signals, but this one instance is the exception. If you take the four coax from the dish and use splitters that only pass DC on one leg and the run the output from each splitter to the same input on both multiswitches.
I.E. coax 1 goes to a splitter and then the outputs go to the 13V 0Hz possition on both multiswitches, coax 2 to 18V 0Hz, coax 3 to 13V 22Khz, coax 4 to 18V 22Khz.

This works because multiswitches lock each input to a specific portion of the total signal so they can constantly see it all. And the DC pass on one leg prevents both multiswitches from sending signaling voltage / tone back to the dish. One multiswitch sends the signals the other just sees the same video. (This is also why it is important to make sure the inputs from each splitter are the same, otherwise the non signalling multiswitch won't be able to send the right transponders through to receivers connected to it)

JimSpence · 12-02-2004, 08:48 PM

Why have all lines to all rooms active? Will all of the rooms have receivers? If not, then just have a patch panel located in a central location where you patch the rooms that need signals.

DrEvil · 12-02-2004, 10:30 PM

Also, the splitters need to be high frequency splitters.

Up to 2GHz.

Most are for cable TV and the signal will get attenuated above 1GHz.

I used four ASKA SSP-2DC splitters (900-2050MHz) from www.18inch.com and they work fine for this application.

dwight · 12-03-2004, 08:19 AM

Hi ebonovic,

Please forgive a stupid question...

When the installer put in my oval dish, he didn't have a cascadable multiswitch with him - so what he did was to remove the integrated multiswitch from the dish itself and just hooked up the four cables directly to the 2 LNB's. Then, he hooked up the other end of the cables in the basement to a 5x8 multiswitch (it's a JVI Trunkline 35-TRDS8 multiswitch).

If I needed more than the 8 outputs from the multiswitch, could I use the splitters and a second 5x8 multiswitch as you've described without having the multiswitch in the dish in place?

Thanks,

Dwight

ebonovic · 12-03-2004, 08:33 AM

Is this a recent install?
Is your triple LNB assemble one solid piece (on the bottom piece) or is it three seperate ones... Basically can you take one of them out with leaving the other two in place.

If it is one solid unit, then you should have no problems using the splitter method.

Else you could use the 2nd method.
Pickup two 4x8 or 5x8's... Take the first 4 outputs from your current switch.. Feed it to New Switch 1; Take the last 4 outputs from your current switch.. Feed ito New Switch 2;... 16 outputs.

No question is stupid, stupid is trying something with getting all the info first.

dwight · 12-03-2004, 09:17 AM

Thanks for the reply!

This is a 2-year-old installation. The dish has space for 3 separate LNB's (I presently have only 2 installed in it), and the "housing" at the base of the LNB's is one solid piece that used to contain a multiswitch with 5 inputs (the 5th is for, I believe, the LNB I'd need if I was to receive an HD signal) and 4 outputs. The "housing" is secured with screws, so the installer didn't have to pry it open or anything to get at and remove the original multiswitch. In fact, I think I still have the original multiswitch someplace in the garage...

So, the way it is now, the dish contains just 2 "regular" dual LNB's with 4 runs of coax coming out of it.

Based on the above, could I use the splitter approach, or would I need to use cascadable multiswitches?

Thanks again for the info!

Dwight

rlj5242 · 12-03-2004, 09:31 AM

Quote:

Based on the above, could I use the splitter approach, or would I need to use cascadable multiswitches?

You don't need a cascadable switch unless you want to run 4 outputs from your first switch into a second switch. You can use the splitter approach with any 5x8 switch.

-Robert

JimSpence · 12-03-2004, 12:52 PM

You can use the dish as it is with the four outputs from the two dual LNBs. You just need to connect the Sat A and Sat B LNB to the appropriate inputs of the 4x8 switch. If you were to add the third LNB, you need the special Sat C kit which includes the LNB and a combiner that is connected to the Sat B 18v side of the multiswitch.

lqwertyl · 12-03-2004, 02:41 PM

ebonvic,

I understood your installation instructions up to

"KEEP the dc passing leg's to one switch, and make sure the inputs match on both swiches."

JimSpence · 12-03-2004, 03:51 PM

You want to connect like inputs of each multiswitch to each splitter, with the DC passing leg of each splitter to the same switch.

MichaelK · 12-03-2004, 07:40 PM

search on feldon's name for multiswitch. He posts great diagrams of exactly how to do it. You just need to find one and its very self explanatroy looking at the picture

feldon23 · 12-04-2004, 10:16 AM

I don't have one that makes two 4x8s into a 4x16.

ebonovic · 12-04-2004, 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by lqwertyl
ebonvic,

I understood your installation instructions up to

"KEEP the dc passing leg's to one switch, and make sure the inputs match on both swiches."

Like Jim Said... You want to keep the DC current flowing from one multiswitch.

So to make it easy...

You have 4 splitters:
INPUT
|----> OUTPUT (NO-DC Current)
|----> OUTPUT (DC Current)

With masking tape: Mark one of your multiswitches DC, the other NO-DC

Do one SPLITTER at a time:
Take one line (does matter which one) from the SAT, and feed it into 1 splitter.

Take the NO-DC Output from the splitter, hook it to the first port of the no-DC multiswitch
Take the DC Output from the splitter, hook it to the first port of the DC Multiswitch.

Do this three more times for the three inputs (if you purchased 5x8 multiswitch, skip over the input for the OTA signal).

Let me see if I can dig up the picture of my switch setup.

Earl

ebonovic · 12-04-2004, 10:39 AM

Okay here are some pictures:

This one is the 1st multiswitch, connected to the splitters.
This is the NON-DC switch:

Click HERE for 3mb version of picture

This one is the pair in the rack:

Click HERE for 3mb version of picture

designr · 12-04-2004, 11:29 AM

If this is new construction and new wire, why not set up a "whole home" system? Basically you would put all you AV equipment (TiVos, DVD players, etc) in one place (i.e., a central closet). Then run IR distribution and Coax from there to each room.

When I remodeled, all the walls were open so I installed conduit to all the rooms and the roof. Thereafter, I pulled 5 RG-6 (with room for more) from the roof to the network closet where the multi-switch was installed. From the network closet, I pulled 1 or more RG-6 and 2 or more CAT5e to each room.

The TiVos, receiver and DVD player are all in the network closet, conveniently located next to the living room theater. (I also distributed speaker wire for the surround speakers, CAT-5e for s-video and a bunch of RG-59 for both composite RCA and component.)

Of the CAT5e drops, some are used for network data and others are shared between phone and IR. (Network can not be shared with anything on the same CAT5e. Phone and IR can be shared on the same CAT5e.)

I then bought a video distribution modulator. Now, in every room, the TiVos are on channels 3 and 88 and the DVD player is on channel 84. I have both s-video and component to the living room for the big TV. Everything can be controlled from any room with any IR remote.

Rob00GT · 12-04-2004, 05:55 PM

Hadn't thought about the "whole home" solution. We did run Cat6 cables (at least one drop to every room) and will be installing a Linksys/Cisco 16 port gigabit switch to allow maximum bandwidth in the house. I wanted them to have future expandibiltiy for wired media center extenders, TivoWeb, or whatever technology becomes best-in-class, in multiple rooms.

lqwertyl · 12-04-2004, 06:30 PM

Oh, OK.

Thanks for the pics and explanation.

MichaelK · 12-04-2004, 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by feldon23
I don't have one that makes two 4x8s into a 4x16.

I'm shocked and shagrined!

Jonathan_S · 12-04-2004, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by feldon23
I don't have one that makes two 4x8s into a 4x16.

I'm almost surprised you posted that you didn't have one rather than just making one and posting that

'Of course, I've always had a diagram for making two 4x8s into a 4x16'

staci · 12-23-2005, 08:55 PM

Ok I need help now,

Presently I have a 3lnb DTV setup . The 4 wires each going into a 2 way splitter. And then there are a 2 4x8 powered multi switches. Each 2 way splitter feeds the same voltage on the 2 8 ways ie... A line feeds both 13v on both multi switches, B line feeds 18v on both multi switches... and so and so on.

When they did this a few months ago I lost my antenna feed, they said they would come back and swap out the switches they never did.

Now we need to add another multiswitch, so the new tech comes out with 4 1x4 splitters to swap those out with the 4 2 ways above. BTW the new ones say 5-1000mhz, the old ones say 950-2150 mhz. I said that might be a problem, he was totally lost, so I watched and helped to make sure he kept the voltages the same. Well now nothing worked and the multiswitches were getting very HOT!!!

SO HE put everything back to the way it was, and it works like before but I still need another 3 outputs and I want my off air antenna back. He said he would call out a lead tech next week.

What do I actually need from him to get this working with off air.

Thanks guys

Staci

JimSpence · 12-23-2005, 09:19 PM

The 1x4 splitters need to be high frequency, like the 1x2's,

But, in your case I think you could just use four outputs from one of the 4x8's and connect to a 5x8. This way you would then have 20 active outputs and the 5th input on the new switch could be used for the antenna. The 8 outputs from this last switch will have the OTA signal available.

feldon23 · 12-23-2005, 09:28 PM

Anyone showing up to a satellite install with 5-1000mhz splitters is brain damaged.

DirecTV requires 950-2150 mhz bandwidth and startihg with the new MPEG-4 Ka/Ku setup, the entire range of 5-2150MHz is required.

JaserLet · 12-23-2005, 09:49 PM

www.picomacom.com

I have a Pico-Macom TSMS-5/16RK which is a rackmount / wallmount 5-input (4 satellite + 1 OTA) 16 output switch. It's an awesome piece of equipment.

staci · 12-23-2005, 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by feldon23

Anyone showing up to a satellite install with 5-1000mhz splitters is brain damaged.

DirecTV requires 950-2150 mhz bandwidth and startihg with the new MPEG-4 Ka/Ku setup, the entire range of 5-2150MHz is required.

I thought it was going to be a problem, his thought thou was his warehouse wouldnt have them if they werent DTV approved?

Do they make a 1x4 power passing splitters. 5-2150 mhz ?

Im still looking for the best easiest way to rectify this .

Can you get 1x4 splitters power passing and go into 3 5x8s?

If you can that would be the easiest I think?

Staci

Want1394 · 12-24-2005, 07:08 AM

Your system is getting way beyond complex.

You need 19 outputs (sat), and you want OTA on how many of the outputs?

I strongly suggest you consider the following and make your choices:

If you only need OTA in a couple of spots, use simple splitters and diplexers to get it distributed, or use dedicated coax. If you need OTA to more locations than 2 or 3, then you will need a good distribution amplifier before going into the multiswitch(s).

For 19 outputs, you really need a 5x16 and a 5x8 switch, connected as you have the two 5x8's today. There are no high-frequency splitters other than 1x2m, and the signal loss adds up even if there were.

If I needed that many outputs and OTA as well, I would spend a bunch more money and put in an amplified Spaun system, just to reduce complexity and worries. YMMV. Good luck and get a far more knowledgable installer for such a large system.