Sony KP-61HS10 and HDTivo Problem - Page 5

CMC#5 · 11-10-2005, 08:14 PM

I just got an HD tivo last friday to go with my kp-61HS10 that I've had for years, got the flickering like the rest of you, and have spent a bunch of time on the phone with Sony trying to get help on this. We've escalated all through levels 1 and 2 and to a supervisor, who finally agreed to help me work something out. I have to admit, so far, I've been very impressed with the quality of the Sony tech folks. This isnt to say they've ponied up a solution that was acceptable, but that they were very polite, well spoken, and had answers to questions. Good job on that part Sony!

So, tonight I had Precision Television from Pleasant Hill show up to look at the TV. They looked at the flickering, spent several minutes on the phone talking to someone, and then told me that... they refuse to work on my TV!

Essentially, they said they dont know of a guaranteed fix. I showed them the bulletin, and they still said they would not work on it because it was a cash job and they're not willing to risk it not working. I asked if Sony was covering it would they work on it, and they just said they'd be surprised if Sony would agree to that. Thats it. They wouldnt give me anything in writing, they wouldnt discuss things being different if I wasnt paying, nothing. Nice huh? That after spending five hours waiting for the service guy to show up.

Oh, yeah, they said I should be happy that I wasnt being charged for the service call! We'll see what Sony says tomorrow.

ToeCutter · 11-15-2005, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMC#5

I just got an HD tivo last friday to go with my kp-61HS10 that I've had for years, got the flickering like the rest of you, and have spent a bunch of time on the phone with Sony trying to get help on this. We've escalated all through levels 1 and 2 and to a supervisor, who finally agreed to help me work something out. I have to admit, so far, I've been very impressed with the quality of the Sony tech folks. This isnt to say they've ponied up a solution that was acceptable, but that they were very polite, well spoken, and had answers to questions. Good job on that part Sony!

So, tonight I had Precision Television from Pleasant Hill show up to look at the TV. They looked at the flickering, spent several minutes on the phone talking to someone, and then told me that... they refuse to work on my TV!

Essentially, they said they dont know of a guaranteed fix. I showed them the bulletin, and they still said they would not work on it because it was a cash job and they're not willing to risk it not working. I asked if Sony was covering it would they work on it, and they just said they'd be surprised if Sony would agree to that. Thats it. They wouldnt give me anything in writing, they wouldnt discuss things being different if I wasnt paying, nothing. Nice huh? That after spending five hours waiting for the service guy to show up.

Oh, yeah, they said I should be happy that I wasnt being charged for the service call! We'll see what Sony says tomorrow.

Sounds like Precision Television are total amateurs.

I had the very same problem with the very same Sony set. I emailed the tech bulletin to a Sony service in Toledo (I live in Southern Michigan), a week later they showed up with the resistors required for the job. They soldered the new resistors to the A board right at my kitchen table, popped it back in and viola, no more sync issues.

Dump those "Precision" jokers and shop around for a decent repair shop. The fix isn't that hard to implement and should take less than an hour. All we're talking here is replacing a few resistors and re-installing the board. Sony's worthless helping with this problem. The tech that fixed my set explained that his Sony rep didn't have a clue what he was talking about even after he showed him the tech bulletin!

Don't expect much help from Sony on this one. I walked this one through myself, start to finish. I'm not sure why you're so impressed with their response? Your set still isn't syncing, no? They might talk nice on the phone, but talk is cheap when your set's not working!

Shame on Sony.....

double_del · 11-16-2005, 08:20 PM

I posted previously in this thread I am having the sync problem or at least I was. I had the problems with a Hughes HIRD 8E and with the HD 250. The Hughes receiver has gone bad. I returned the HD 250 and got a a DTV H10. Now I am not experiencing the sync issues. I guess only certain receivers bring out this problem.

Dante93gtz · 11-23-2005, 12:22 AM

Just another "It works" post. We had this problem on a Sony KB-65XBR10W and had a local TV repair shop apply the fix mentioned in this thread. All flickering problems are now gone and picture works great.

jstoddard · 11-23-2005, 01:31 PM

Well I am 0 for 2 in replacing the A board. Tech came back out today with a supposedly modified A board direct from Sony. Looking at the board it appeared to have some but not all the modifications done already. Put the board in and same flickering problems. He attempted to make some of the other required changes and now the new board no longer works...

Trying to get my tech on the phone with John @ Sony who has agreed to pay for the repair.

My guess is that the next stop is to have the tech make the modifications to my existing board. No date scheduled for that yet... Very frustrating.

Jeff

Quote:

Originally Posted by jstoddard

I had a service tech out today to replace my A-board in my KP-53HS10 which is suffering this problem. They ordered an A-board directly from Sony rather than try to modify my existing A-board. New board was put in and suffered just as bad as my original A-board. Back to the drawing board - repair company is going to talk to Sony as they believed that Sony's stock of replacement A-boards had been updated already. They'll either bring a new A-board or the parts to do a fix on my existing board.

Anyone had any luck with putting in a new A-board and it fixing the problem?

Jeff

bobn · 11-26-2005, 09:04 AM

But, it was a trip. We bought the service manual, located all the affected components on the A board layout, trekked up to Radio Shack and had second thoughts.

We drew out the circuit, before and after. Our 2002 model of the KP-53HS10 had the 1K chip at R600 meaning the previous bulletin #442 had been implemented. Third Thoughts!

The second step from the last on our copy of #442R3 is just wrong. Do not remove Q552. (Any service bulletin that makes it to Revision three means the problem has been around too long!) Some way this step survived from a previous version or crept in at 2AM when the tech was doing the paper work to finish an overdue project. Without Q522 the YGout don't make it back to the YGin. ****ake Mushroom, baby!

Don't attempt this without a service manual, temperature controlled soldering iron, very fine solder and a large magnifiying glass. A large jar of expensive scottish whiskey is a plus. Hoover Dam, Guys and Gals.

On our second day now with no 1080i resets. Cleaning the lenses really helps. Glad it's done. Would not do it again! We were very lucky! The Lord surely watches over old fools.

Grandma and Grandpa

CMC#5 · 11-29-2005, 08:35 PM

Well I'm still at it. Sony keeps telling me they wont cover it, but I keep having to talk to a level 2 tech that is very polite but doesnt seem to be making any progress. They have yet to find a service company in my area that has done this. I think I'll give them a few more days and then call back and try to escalate to another level.

Its really weird how some folks here have gotten Sony to pay for parts, some have gotten them to send a new board, some have gotten the whole thing covered...you'd think by now Sony would figure it out and have one solid policy that avoids continuing to head down the road to a class action lawsuit...

Suirk · 11-30-2005, 07:53 PM

Like many others, I'm glad I found this thread. I've got a 53HS10 that's had the sync problem from the day I first hooked up my HD STB - been 'putting up with it' for a while now and glad to see there may be a cure. So, I called the dealer I bought it from and told them what I've learned about this issue. Since the TV is beyond warranty they said they wouldn't do anything with out me talking to Sony first. Then I called Sony (Canada) where they talked around the issue and basically said I need a tech to send them an estimate of the repair before they would make any decision about covering it. So I had a tech come out and take a look. He knew about the problem, said he had performed the fix once before and it worked, and would give Sony the details. I spoke with Sony yesterday and was told they received the info and are now 'investigating' the case. I can only guess what that means... I'll post an update when I receive the verdict.

BTW, the way the tech explained the issue to me was that the DTV input on this TV has a circut that scans the incoming signal to determine if it is 1080i/480p. So when the TV percieves a change in signal, the scanning circuit kicks in and does it's thing. What the fix does is slows the reaction time for this circuit. So basically, when there is a sudden change in the incoming signal, it hesitates before rescanning - long enough for the signal to re-establish itself without ever triggering the scan.

Suirk · 12-06-2005, 12:42 PM

Update: Sony agreed to cover the parts ($23) and labour ($120) for the repair. I just need to cover the initial service call ($70). Parts are on order, hopefully get it all fixed in a week.

Revo · 12-19-2005, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suirk

Update: Sony agreed to cover the parts ($23) and labour ($120) for the repair. I just need to cover the initial service call ($70). Parts are on order, hopefully get it all fixed in a week.

Suirk, I live in Montreal and just hooked up my KP-53HS10 to Videotron's Explorer 8300HD (Scientic Atlanta) decoder and I get the same sync/flicker problem everyone else has in 1024i on Video 5. I'm really pissed. Of course, my TV is out of warranty.

Can you tell me the phone number you called/person you talked to at Sony to get them to pay for the repair? Moreover, I suppose (by the price of the parts) that they are not replacing the whole board right? Can you tell us what has happened so far and if the repair worked?

goldenrule123 · 12-24-2005, 11:53 PM

In a local newspaper, someone down the road wants to sell the above TV for $200. I've never had a large TV before, and don't know too much about them. he mentions the TV comes on and plays perfect for a few minutes and then looses the picture, the audio remains on. From these symptoms, can anyone offer input on what part or parts are needed? It was manufactured in 2000. Any help would be appreciated. I sure don't want to spend $200 on the TV and then find out it costs $2000 to repair! Any input is appreciated. I've read quite a few threads here before I posted and seen the "A" board is mentioned frequently.

Suirk · 12-27-2005, 03:43 PM

Update:

I had the repair done on Friday and based on what I've seen so far, it appears to have fixed the sync/flicker problem. That said, with the holidays I haven't had much of a chance to do some serious TV watching. I'll know for sure in a few days.

They didn't replace the A board, just made the changes to the existing board. The technician didn't remove the board, just slid out the chassis and did the work practically lying on his back. Took him a little more than an hour to do.

Unfortunately I have discovered a problem since the repair. I also have a HTPC hooked up to my TV, outputting a 480p signal into Vid 5. Since the repair was made, my TV no longer recognizes the 480p signal. So while my HD problems seem to have been resolved, I now have to get the technician out again to see what may have gone wrong and caused this new issue. While I may be happy that my HD problems are cured, I'm not going to be happy if loosing 480p is the trade off.

Has anyone else seen or heard of this?

Revo: I called Sony @ 1-877-899-7669 and spoke to Carolyn. She was pretty good about the whole thing, but stressed a number of times that Sony didn't really have to cover the costs and that this was a 'customer courtesy' gesture...

pinballfan · 12-28-2005, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Suirk

Since the repair was made, my TV no longer recognizes the 480p signal. So while my HD problems seem to have been resolved, I now have to get the technician out again to see what may have gone wrong and caused this new issue. While I may be happy that my HD problems are cured, I'm not going to be happy if loosing 480p is the trade off.

Has anyone else seen or heard of this?

I didn't have any 480p video sources back when I made the modification (very early in this thread). Since then I upgraded my DVD player to one that could do progressive scan.

Unfortunately I seem to get intermittant sync issues with it. For watching DVDs I don't find the picture all that much better so I haven't done anything about it. The upconversion for 480i to 960i is pretty good. I'd say the 480p picture looks different, but not that much better.

I have no way to know if this problem existed before I made the mods or not.

-- Doug

madgrizzle · 01-03-2006, 11:48 AM

Sears came out today to look at my set. I have 16 days left on the 5-year extended warranty so I'm getting it fixed just in the nick of time. They are having a new A-board shipped in from Sony. Will report back as to whether the A-board they ship fixes the flickering problem. The repair man basically didn't want to do the work himself due to the difficulty.

Suirk · 01-07-2006, 08:35 AM

Post fix update:

After some serious HD watching I've concluded that the fix has eliminated my 1080i sync issues.

As for 480p, I'm pretty sure the fix changes how the set processes these signals. I was able to eliminate my 480p sync issues by tweaking the video settings on my HTPC. This may have meant that my PC wasn't sending a perfect signal to begin with, and if that's the case I can't blame the TV. Regardless, I'd recommend anyone getting this fix done to test both signal types (if you need them) with the technician present to make sure this isn't a problem for you. Since both pinballfan and I noticed a problem with 480p after the fix, I'd hate for someone to get stuck with a similar problem.

The bottom line: I'm satisfied and my wife is happy - which when it comes down to justifying my next 'toy' purchase, is what really matters :-)

keefer37 · 01-10-2006, 07:14 AM

Man, I gotta get on getting my TV fixed. Do I just call a tech locally and then Sony or vice versa?

Suirk · 01-17-2006, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by keefer37

Man, I gotta get on getting my TV fixed. Do I just call a tech locally and then Sony or vice versa?

If it's under warranty then call your dealer. Otherwise I'd call Sony first, they will advise you how to proceed. If you are not under warranty you will surely want to talk to them first to see if they will even cover the repair. Many of us have been through the process (with different experiences) with Sony so as long as you have read all the postings in this group you should be well aware of what may or may not happen. Best of luck!

gicu · 07-29-2006, 02:31 PM

I read the whole thread and I probably have the same problem,but after messing with the service aria numbers from the DSP to the PJE and more,I can't even see anything more than pixels and shadows,on the video5 only,all others Video1 through Video4 are fine.I even switched the DishNet HD receivers to no avail.So my request is for anyone that has the same tv can you PLEASE look up your setting in your service screen and e-mail me the numbers even a little bit at a time.Thanks in advance to any help...
P.S. I downloaded the service manual but the settings are all zeroes for the majority and that's no help.

ANSEK · 07-30-2006, 07:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gicu

I read the whole thread and I probably have the same problem,but after messing with the service aria numbers from the DSP to the PJE and more,I can't even see anything more than pixels and shadows,on the video5 only,all others Video1 through Video4 are fine.I even switched the DishNet HD receivers to no avail.So my request is for anyone that has the same tv can you PLEASE look up your setting in your service screen and e-mail me the numbers even a little bit at a time.Thanks in advance to any help...
P.S. I downloaded the service manual but the settings are all zeroes for the majority and that's no help.

More than happy to help. If you post which set of numbers you seek is will post back my unaltered settings.

Jaboo · 07-31-2006, 02:28 PM

I'm sure glad this thread has helped people. I know it's been nice not having to deal with that sync problem. Now I just need a new TV!

fwarren · 08-01-2006, 08:09 PM

I have the same flicker/blanking/sync problem with my Sony 53HS10 (early model) probably 9 years old. I have had Sears out twice for repair. This time they said they have no Sony 442R3 bulletin and no notice from Sony that there is a problem. The A Board problem is such a known problem, i don't know why Sears knows nothing about it. Can anyone send my ANYTHING that Sears will recognize: the service bulletin, a notice of Sony repair, anything? My Sears warranty expires next month. I used to have teh 442R3 link but it no longer out ther. Thanks for the help.

Slipshod · 08-02-2006, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fwarren

I have the same flicker/blanking/sync problem with my Sony 53HS10 (early model) probably 9 years old. I have had Sears out twice for repair. This time they said they have no Sony 442R3 bulletin and no notice from Sony that there is a problem. The A Board problem is such a known problem, i don't know why Sears knows nothing about it. Can anyone send my ANYTHING that Sears will recognize: the service bulletin, a notice of Sony repair, anything? My Sears warranty expires next month. I used to have teh 442R3 link but it no longer out ther. Thanks for the help.

Wow. I didn't realize so many other people had run into this problem. I have since gotten rid of my 53HS10, but had successfully had it repaired prior to selling it. There is a Sony TSB on the issue - I found it over a year ago in a thread on some website. The TSB listed the parts necessary, and I ordered them from an online supply house. One of the hardware techs at work was good with surface-mount reworks, so I asked him to do the work for me. Had to take out the mainboard on the TV (I think it's the "A" board) and then he soldered on the parts and the problem completely disappeared. I could watch CSI without it losing sync every time they flashed white.

I'll try to dig up the information, but it's been a long time...

Slipshod · 08-02-2006, 12:41 AM

Well, I found the info, but I can't post links because I don't have enough posts on this forum.

Gotta love spammers.

Search for "TVP0442.PDF 508.html?1115907328" on google and it should take you to the correct page, the second one from the top. TVP0442.PDF is the filename of the TSB, and it looks like it's called "Sony service bulletin 442R3".

Cheers.

fwarren · 08-23-2006, 10:44 PM

Slipshod:
Thank you so very much. I had looked eveywhere and could not find the Sony Service Bulletin.

I will hand this to my Sears repair and see i f he fixes it this time. It's really annoying! Thank you again for your help!

What a great Forum!

/s/ Floyd

scastria · 09-26-2006, 08:26 PM

I got the 442R3 bulletin and attempted to apply the fix to my KP65XBR10W TV since I experienced the exact problems after connecting my new Series 3 TiVO. I went through each of the steps and here is what I did:

1. C693 (my A board already had the correct value capacitor)
2. C694 (my A board already had the correct value capacitor)
3. C696 (my A board already had the correct value capacitor)
4. R600 (my A board already had a 0 ohm resistor short)
5. Q553 (my A board already had this transistor removed)

Here is where my work started:

6. R698 - I removed the resistor which was a 4.7k ohm
7. C638 - I swapped the surface mount component with a ceramic .1uf, RS part 272-135, Radio Shack was out of 272-109
8. Q552 - I removed the transistor
9. Used the R698 4.7k ohm resistor to connect B and E of where Q552 used to be. I realize this is not the 470 ohm value required, but I hoped it would work anyway since it was a surface mount component

My Video 5 does not work at all right now. I have seen one guy post that we shouldn't remove Q552, but then how could we do step 9? I will change the 4.7k ohm surface mount resistor for step 9 with a 470 ohm regular resistor and see if that works. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.

scastria · 09-26-2006, 09:13 PM

It was indeed the 4.7k ohm surface mount resistor that I used instead of 470 ohm. I replaced it with a regular Radio Shack 470 ohm 1/4 watt resistor and I am flicker free!

LKelmar · 11-10-2006, 06:07 PM

I have the Sony KP-65XBR10W (got it from my Dad two years ago) and was waiting for the Tivo Series 3 because I could not bear going to a Comcast DVR/HD box. I have run into the same flickering problem and was so glad to find this thread. Talk about the power of Web 2.0!

Spend the required hour on the phone to Sony this morning and finally got to a Tier 2 technician who was not able to find the Service Bulletin 442R3. That makes me kinda nervous when I am quoting the document to the guy who is supposed to be the product expert. Anyway, I ended up at the same place as many other folks as I will have a technician coming out on Monday and if they determine that Sony's design error is at fault then Sony will pay for the repair. I am still stuck with paying for the evaluation though.

Looking forward to flicker free HD! Thanks for all the help on this board.

fritolayguy · 12-03-2006, 08:20 PM

I have the KP-61HS10, and I started experiencing the flicker on my set as soon as I connected the TIVO Series 3. Up until now, we haven't seen it as a huge issue, but I see the possibility of getting it permanently fixed as a good thing.....

Question, though....why didn't the TV do the same thing with the Mediacom Motorola DVR attached? Both connections are component connections, yet this never occurred with the DVR....Any thoughts?

pinballfan · 12-04-2006, 08:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fritolayguy

...why didn't the TV do the same thing with the Mediacom Motorola DVR attached? Both connections are composite connections, yet this never occurred with the DVR....Any thoughts?

I don't have a good answer why, but I can tell you that others have observed the same thing. I originally watched HD via a Sony HD-100 set-top-box. It too uses component video connections. It never produced this flicker effect.

I don't think it was ever clear exactly why the Sony and Tivo don't get along. My guess would be that the Tivos are sending out a slightly broader range of video signals that the Sony thinks are normal, thus causing the Sony to drop into resync mode.

-- Doug

fritolayguy · 12-04-2006, 08:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pinballfan

I don't have a good answer why, but I can tell you that others have observed the same thing. I originally watched HD via a Sony HD-100 set-top-box. It too uses component video connections. It never produced this flicker effect.

I don't think it was ever clear exactly why the Sony and Tivo don't get along. My guess would be that the Tivos are sending out a slightly broader range of video signals that the Sony thinks are normal, thus causing the Sony to drop into resync mode.

-- Doug

I read over the 442R3 service bulletin from Sony about this TV, and it outlines that it is "certain brand DTV receivers" are the causes of the issue. That being said, I hope Sony does not look at it as a TIVO problem.....!!!!

How can I be sure that my warranty will still cover the repairs? I have seen some indications that this is not an inexpensive procedure (upwards of $600)....?