Sony KP-61HS10 and HDTivo Problem

Jaboo · 05-15-2004, 01:08 PM

I've had the same problem in the past with other receivers. I had bought the Toshiba DST-3000 (I think) a couple of years ago when it first came out. Basically on 1080i displays with bright screens, the video TV would cut out and try to change displays, like it lost the signal. Well now that I've hooked it up to the new HD Tivo, it does this at all resolutions. Anyone experiencing this? I'm almost certain it's the TV. All Sony equipement works just fine while plugged into Video 5, but nothing else does.

I did dig thru forums back then and supposidly there was a fix. The TV was still under warranty at that point, they sent a tech out and my TV already had the new part, he replaced it anyway, but it didn't fix the issue.

Any ideas? Looks like I'll be taking this back to the Circuit City in Cedar Hill TX if anyone wants it.....

david(dallas) · 05-15-2004, 03:01 PM

Sorry to here you problem from a Fellow Dallas area HD fan. I have the Sony GWII 50" and I haven't had that issue. When you change from 480p and 1080i while checking out PQ, it seems to take a couple of seconds to switch. But I think that is normally. When I do this on a frozen picture, then press play, the screen goes snowy for a couple of seconds, then kicks in.

I don't think that is what you are talking about though..

David in Plano

litzdog911 · 05-15-2004, 03:06 PM

My Sony KV-40XBR800 seems to work fine with my receiver. It's able to synch quickly to any of the HR10-250's resolution formats.

I agree it sounds like an issue with your Sony. Since they tried to fix it under warranty and couldn't, perhaps you can raise the issue again with Sony Support and insist they make it right.

ANSEK · 05-15-2004, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jaboo
I've had the same problem in the past with other receivers. I had bought the Toshiba DST-3000 (I think) a couple of years ago when it first came out. Basically on 1080i displays with bright screens, the video TV would cut out and try to change displays, like it lost the signal. Well now that I've hooked it up to the new HD Tivo, it does this at all resolutions. Anyone experiencing this? I'm almost certain it's the TV. All Sony equipment works just fine while plugged into Video 5, but nothing else does.

I did dig thru forums back then and supposidly there was a fix. The TV was still under warranty at that point, they sent a tech out and my TV already had the new part, he replaced it anyway, but it didn't fix the issue.

Any ideas? Looks like I'll be taking this back to the Circuit City in Cedar Hill TX if anyone wants it.....

I have the same TV and the same problem. The only difference I had it fixed when I bought my HD200. It work fine until I got the HD TiVo. I believe the TV is the main culprit but the HD TiVo is exacerbating the issue.

kevinkrohn · 05-15-2004, 06:11 PM

This is DEFINITELY your TV. I have the same set and had the same "flashing" problem. It is a known problem with the set and Sony needs to fix it. I fought long and hard with them to get mine fixed and paid for. It was out of warranty but obviously a problem that was with the set from day 1. The service bulletin is No. 442R3. If they give you any BS (which they will), don't give up. They need to replace the "A" board. It will be about $600-800 if they don't cover it. Best of luck. It was a nightmare for me. They originally tried to do some other fix on the circuit board by taking my set apart and into the shop. NO DICE. They had my set for weeks. The A Board fix can be done by you and in minutes. Here is the number to the service tech. who I talked to, John: 239-768-7600x6719.
He will know about it. You likely will have to call another number first however to get a service ticket number. Again, best of luck!

pinballfan · 05-15-2004, 08:45 PM

Oh *#$%#$!

Just hooked mine up today and I guess my Sony KP-57XBR10W has the same issue. When the scene changes it often drops its lock on the signal. Seems to be most prevelant during commercials, but happens during movies etc as well.

Anyone else have that particular TV? Do you have this problem as well??

I guess I'll try to track down Sony support on Monday.

-- Doug

Jaboo · 05-15-2004, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kevinkrohn
This is DEFINITELY your TV. I have the same set and had the same "flashing" problem. It is a known problem with the set and Sony needs to fix it. I fought long and hard with them to get mine fixed and paid for. It was out of warranty but obviously a problem that was with the set from day 1. The service bulletin is No. 442R3. If they give you any BS (which they will), don't give up. They need to replace the "A" board. It will be about $600-800 if they don't cover it. Best of luck. It was a nightmare for me. They originally tried to do some other fix on the circuit board by taking my set apart and into the shop. NO DICE. They had my set for weeks. The A Board fix can be done by you and in minutes. Here is the number to the service tech. who I talked to, John: 239-768-7600x6719.
He will know about it. You likely will have to call another number first however to get a service ticket number. Again, best of luck!

Hey thanks soooo much for the detailed info! I guess I'll keep the unit and give them a call Monday. I'll fight them tooth and nail over this. I'll keep everyone posted. Thanks again!

pinballfan · 05-15-2004, 11:16 PM

Well I just tried an on-line chat with a support rep. Boy, talk about a waste of time.

He claimed every issue they know about is posted on their website and pointed me to a search page where only 2 TV related issues are posted (2 issues for all Sony TVs ever produced!) Yeah, they post everything...

Perhaps that was all HE knew....

I tried calling John and got his voice mail. (Yes he identified himself as "John" in the VM greeting.) I'll try again Monday duing business hours.

--
kevinkrohn, I don't suppose you know the part # of the board that needs to be replaced do you? Since I bought my TV in November of 2000 I am not too optimistic about getting them to foot the bill for the part. It does look like I might be able to order the board if I know the details.
--
Jaboo, did you say you had this problem at all resolutions? When I set the Tivo to output 480i I don't see the issue anymore. I recorded Harry Potter tonight and the scene when Hagrid knocks down the door to see Harry (near the beginning of the movie) caused it to flicker several times at 1080i, but not at all at 480i.

-- Doug

ANSEK · 05-16-2004, 12:01 AM

I am now convinced the HD TiVo is exacerbating the problem. I had the fix outlined in Service Buliten 442R3 back in November of '02. When I watch a program on the HD TiVo the screen flashes with sudden dark to bright transitions. When I watch the same program on the HD200 it does not flash.

Flepper · 05-16-2004, 07:56 AM

I have this problem, too.

The Sony Service bulletin can be found at:

http://hdtv.forsandiego.com/messages/2/TVP0442-607.pdf

I have the extended warranty from CC and will see if they will fix this. If it costs $600-$800, I bet I'm in for a fight.

I noticed that while watching UPN last night the pictue would start to blur near the top of the display, and then the screen would go black momentarily. I don't believe this is the TV, as 1080i does not appear on the screen when the picture comes back on.

Jaboo · 05-16-2004, 09:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pinballfan

--
Jaboo, did you say you had this problem at all resolutions? When I set the Tivo to output 480i I don't see the issue anymore. I recorded Harry Potter tonight and the scene when Hagrid knocks down the door to see Harry (near the beginning of the movie) caused it to flicker several times at 1080i, but not at all at 480i.

-- Doug

Well, I had left it on 480i and told the wife to watch it and let me know while I mowed, she said it 'dropped', I'll double check today. I also watched Harry Potter last night and it constantly dropped at 1080i, I'm talking every 5 to 10 minutes.

pinballfan · 05-16-2004, 09:09 AM

Thanks for the link Flepper,

Unfortunately that bulletin doesn't list my model #. Worse yet it suggests that boards built after July 2000 would not have this issue. Since my set was built in November 2000 it doesn't look good...

Can folks please post their TV model #s and build dates so we can see if we can find a connection?

Ansek,

You say you already had the fix applied? Did it solve a problem you were having at the time with another DTV tuner or DVD player?

-- Doug

ANSEK · 05-16-2004, 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by pinballfan
Thanks for the link Flepper,

Unfortunately that bulletin doesn't list my model #. Worse yet it suggests that boards built after July 2000 would not have this issue. Since my set was built in November 2000 it doesn't look good...

Can folks please post their TV model #s and build dates so we can see if we can find a connection?

Ansek,

You say you already had the fix applied? Did it solve a problem you were having at the time with another DTV tuner or DVD player?

-- Doug

Doug,

Yes, I had the fix outlined in Sony Service Bulletin 442R3 applied to my KP61-HS10 in November of '02 and it fixed the problem when using my SAT-HD200. The HD TiVo appears to be sending information in a different manner causing the flash.

If this continues and it comes down to having HD TiVo with flashing and HDTV with no flashing. I choose to ditch the HD TiVo.

I am not saying the TV is blameless but it works perfect with my HD200 so the HD TiVo must be doing something wrong.

pinballfan · 05-16-2004, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by ANSEK
If this continues and it comes down to having HD TiVo with flashing and HDTV with no flashing. I choose to ditch the HD TiVo.

I am not saying the TV is blameless but it works perfect with my HD200 so the HD TiVo must be doing something wrong.

As much as it pains me I think I'll have to agree on both counts....

-- Doug

Jaboo · 05-16-2004, 01:28 PM

This really sux. So we may have to get a HW upgrade for the TV plus wait on DTV to send a software update that only affects certain TVs? The odds aren't looking so good....

kevinkrohn · 05-16-2004, 01:42 PM

I guarantee you it is the TV only. When mine had the problem, it would only be affected by certain scenes and only on 1080i until they tried to perform the transistor fix. Then it happened on DVDs as well. The A board replacement COMPLETELY solved the problem on all inputs. I have NEVER seen another 'flash' since the fix was completed two years ago. Make them replace the board. The TIVO is not to blame. As for the HD200, it may not induce flashing, I used an HD100 when I had the issue, but that doesn't make the TIVO defective.

Jaboo · 05-16-2004, 04:03 PM

Well with the help of an Ex Sony Repairman, I'm gonna try to replace these parts myself. I'm off to Radio Shack to get them now. I'll keep everyone posted.

ANSEK · 05-16-2004, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by kevinkrohn
I guarantee you it is the TV only. When mine had the problem, it would only be affected by certain scenes and only on 1080i until they tried to perform the transistor fix. Then it happened on DVDs as well. The A board replacement COMPLETELY solved the problem on all inputs. I have NEVER seen another 'flash' since the fix was completed two years ago. Make them replace the board. The TIVO is not to blame. As for the HD200, it may not induce flashing, I used an HD100 when I had the issue, but that doesn't make the TIVO defective.

kevin,

Are you saying that you have a HD TiVo connected to an HS10 series TV and you do not have flashing? If you do not have an HD TiVo yet, I would like to see if your replaced A board holds up better than my fixed A board. I have used three different 1080i sources with my TV since my A board was fixed, HD200, Xbox (enter the Matrix) and HD TiVo. Only the HD TiVo causes the TV to flash. I can watch the begining of CSI and CSI: MIAMI with all of the bright white flashes without a problem on my HD200. I can't even watch Minority Report on my HD TiVo without flashing. As I mentioned before, I am not holding the TV blameless but, I do believe the HD TiVo is outputing 1080i in a manner different from any other 1080i source I have used with my TV.

kevinkrohn · 05-16-2004, 11:44 PM

I totally agree that it is outputting 1080i in a different manner, just not likely a defective manner. My HDTIVO comes on Wednesday but it is going to be connected to my Sharp 10000 front projector to be used in my theatre room (with my 123" Stewart screen!). I have used both my HD200 and my HD100 on the set with no problems after the board was replaced. Due to the set-up of the 61HS10 and the difficulty in connecting the TIVO, I will not be able to test it for you. I guess all I can say is what worked for me. The fix did not work, but the board replacement totally cured the problem. Best of luck!!

Jambo · 05-17-2004, 07:43 AM

I also have the 57XBR10W and had a jitter issue when on Video 5 using component. Under warranty (just barely), I got them to replace the "A" board and haven't had a problem since then.

pinballfan · 05-17-2004, 09:07 AM

Jambo,

Just confirming... Do you have a HD Tivo? Another person posted a message suggesting they had a fix (for a problem with another device), but that the problem was back now with the HD Tivo...

Also, what device gave you trouble? (My Sony HD-100 and Sony progressive scan DVD players work fine.)

Thanks!

-- Doug

ratfacejt · 05-17-2004, 12:23 PM

I have the same problem -- A repair guy under the Goodguy's extended warranty is coming out tomorrow. Hopefully they will fix it without a fight.

KBC · 05-17-2004, 12:34 PM

I am so glad I found this thread. I've been asking about my Flicker problem on other threads and was now trying to find a new HD TIVO to exchange. Now I am reading here that it is my TV. I have the Sony KP 61HS10 also and the flicker is driving me crazy.

Should I hold off on exchanging my TIVO for now? I'll be watching this thread so keep the info coming. Thanks

patjoy · 05-17-2004, 12:39 PM

I have had the same problem. I use a Princeton AF3.0HD monitor which is VESA rated. The monitor will blink out for a moment when there is a transition in the picture, like from one scene to another. I was able to step through frame by frame with the TiVo. It mostly happens when the transition involves a frame that is bright white. It then will lose frame sync and then regain it. On the AF3.0 this is indicated by bringing up the port designator on the screen, does that every time. This seems to happen only on programs with this one or two frames of bright white. I think something is not right in the TiVo. I hope that they acknowledge this problem.

Pat

dmaneyapanda · 05-17-2004, 12:50 PM

it shouldn't have anything to do with the tivo. it's a problem with the tv/monitor and the vertical sync. during scenes with fast transitions from bright white to dark (or maybe it's the other way around), the TV will lose vertical sync momentarily because of a problem in the TV electronics.

I would be highly suspicious that swapping out the tivo will have any effect on this problem. Your only recourse will be to have your tv set fixed.

Having said this, I don't know why the problem would happen when using a HDTivo to view source material, but not when using another HD receiver to view the same material. The HDTiVo should be just recording and playing back the EXACT SAME bitstream as any other HD receiver is.

The only thing I can think of is that the HD Tivo is somehow calibrated differently when converting the digital signal into an analog/component signal, and is somehow doing so in a way which causes the vsync to be even more problematic.

Even if this is the case, swapping HD TiVo's will likely have no effect. We'd have to wait for a new HD TiVo hardware spec, which will no doubt be a long, long time coming. Again, your best bet will probably (and unfortunately) be to have your set serviced.

Jambo · 05-17-2004, 03:04 PM

No, I don't have one yet (Father's Day is coming up though,

). However, I noticed it when using my JVC-723GD progressive scan DVD player using Video 5. The TV would be on for, oh, about 15-20 minutes and then the screen image would start jumping up and down fractions of an inch.

To test, I ran the same signal using another video input using a composite signal and it didn't do it.

I also ran my computer through the Video 5 input using progressive scan timings and it jittered, so then I knew it was the TV.

Let me know if you have any other questions.
Jamie

Quote:

Originally posted by pinballfan
Jambo,

Just confirming... Do you have a HD Tivo? Another person posted a message suggesting they had a fix (for a problem with another device), but that the problem was back now with the HD Tivo...

Also, what device gave you trouble? (My Sony HD-100 and Sony progressive scan DVD players work fine.)

Thanks!

-- Doug

pinballfan · 05-17-2004, 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Jambo
No, I don't have one yet (Father's Day is coming up though, ). However, I noticed it when using my JVC-723GD progressive scan DVD player using Video 5. The TV would be on for, oh, about 15-20 minutes and then the screen image would start jumping up and down fractions of an inch.

Hmm. Bummer, sounds like a different problem. I don't think anyone has seen the up/down movement you describe. If you look back through the thread you will note we have been seeing the display act like we had changed the input resolution (where the screen goes black and then comes back with an overlay of the video source and resolution).

-- Doug

Jambo · 05-17-2004, 04:37 PM

Yeah, but check out the description in the TSB that someone posted:

"Intermittent loss of sync, and picture distortion, with component video and 1080i format. Picture may blink or jitter when playing progressive-scan DVDs. Both these symptoms may be observed when using the Video-5 input."

Blink OR jitter. I'd bet money that if you got a new "A" board, that'd do it.

Jamie

Quote:

Originally posted by pinballfan
Hmm. Bummer, sounds like a different problem. I don't think anyone has seen the up/down movement you describe. If you look back through the thread you will note we have been seeing the display act like we had changed the input resolution (where the screen goes black and then comes back with an overlay of the video source and resolution).

-- Doug

KBC · 05-17-2004, 05:43 PM

The flicker on my set happens on all formats, 1080 or 480 on mostly HD channels. It is when a quick shot to black is when the flicker happens and then the TV display pops on. Very annoying. I just want to make sure to find out if it is a TIVO problem or not before the 30 days run out.

kevinkrohn · 05-17-2004, 05:56 PM

KBC-

Trust me, it is the set. Don't worry about exchanging your TIVO. Back when I had this problem there was a HS10 forum that talked all about this issue. All sets made before a certain date had the problem. My buddy has the 53HS10 and had the same problem. Call Sony.