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04-22-2004, 02:54 PM
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#1
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,858
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DirecTV HD DVR HR10-250 Upgrade Thread
The good news is: the HD TiVo seems to be upgradeable. We have successfully backed up and restored the software, expanded it, and added second drives.
PLEASE NOTE: We haven’t yet filled up these drives with HD content. Once we’ve had a chance to try many other tests in these units (we’ve got a pretty big list) we’ll try this. So for now, we’re relying on what we see in System Information. Until we have successfully loaded the drive with content, take all this with a grain of salt.
Here are the details:
We used our standard backup string:
mfsbackup –f 9999 –1so /image.bak /dev/hdc
The resulting image is 1486 MB.
We restored to our 300 GB Maxtor QuickView drive as:
mfsrestore –xzpi /image.bak /dev/hdc
and in the TiVo we see 37 hours in HD and 248 in SD.
We have blessed drives in “noswap” and added them to the factory drive, and those drives are recognized by the system. Adding a 300 GB drive to the stock 250 GB drive creates 70 hours in HD and 470 hours in SD.
So far, we can’t get a dual 300 setup to work reliably, but we’re still working on it.
So in short, we can get mfsadd to work with one drive, and we have successfully added a second drive to a stock “A” drive with BlessTiVo, but we have not yet successfully used mfsadd (or the –x switch in mfsrestore) across two drives, with the first being >250GB.
The challenge here is to safely hold the second drive in the unit. Our TwinBreeze bracket won’t work in its current configuration and we have begun the process of engineering a new bracket for this unit. Quality components take some time to engineer, test, tool, and manufacture. The power supply in the HD box is 85W so we don’t see any reason to add the PowerTrip to this box at present.
More details as they come.
Michael
EDIT: 9/28/04
We have updated our D-I-Y upgrade site to support this model:
http://www.upgrade-instructions.com
We have a CD with large kernel support, and full instructions for using two large drives for this model.
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Last edited by weaknees : 09-28-2004 at 07:50 PM.
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04-22-2004, 03:05 PM
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#2
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: DC Metro Area
Posts: 7,902
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weaknees,
How long would you guess it wll take you to engineer and mass produce a bracket for the HD Tivo? Are we talking weeks or months?
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04-22-2004, 03:06 PM
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#3
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Save the Moderatоr
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Long Branch, NJ, USA
Posts: 47,376
TC CLUB MEMBER
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Good luck Michael; I know I'm anxious to hear/see/buy the final results!
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Ż\_(ツ)_/Ż
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04-22-2004, 03:18 PM
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#4
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Central IL
Posts: 1,016
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Oh boy! I'm really surprised. I guess this is a reason to get a unit sooner rather than later. Not that I think DirecTV is quick enough on their feet to re-engineer hardware or software to prevent this any time soon, but it will probably be on their todo list.
Also, isn't the Maxtor drive much quieter than the stock WD drive?
__________________
Matt
Relax, its only TV. . .then what am I doing wasting time on a forum like this and spending hundreds of dollars on glorified VCR's?
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04-22-2004, 03:18 PM
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#5
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Way Left
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Posts: 1,995
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WooHoo! 
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04-22-2004, 03:18 PM
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#6
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Tivo Addict
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: OKC
Posts: 243
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Awesome news!
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Hughes HDVR2 80GB TiVo
Hughes HR10-250 Stock
Mitsubishi WS-65813
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04-22-2004, 03:19 PM
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#7
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Way Left
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Posts: 1,995
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Quote:
Originally posted by turls
Not that I think DirecTV is quick enough on their feet to re-engineer hardware or software to prevent this any time soon, but it will probably be on their todo list.
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They've never done that in the past, have they?
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04-22-2004, 03:20 PM
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#8
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Registered User
Join Date: Feb 2000
Location: Central IL
Posts: 1,016
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darin
They've never done that in the past, have they?
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No, but the design was done on the originals before they "took over" from Tivo. And of course, being an HD box, any hackability will be doubly discouraged by MPAA and other DirecTV "partners".
Not FUD at all. I'm being quite reasonable.
__________________
Matt
Relax, its only TV. . .then what am I doing wasting time on a forum like this and spending hundreds of dollars on glorified VCR's?
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04-22-2004, 03:26 PM
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#9
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Wasting time here
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Randolph, New Jersey
Posts: 1,443
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How soon is it typically before we get an idea on costs as well as time to get the add on done?
Doug
__________________
'The strong can take from the weak, but the smart take from the strong.'
"The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity."
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04-22-2004, 03:27 PM
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#10
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Wasting time here
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Randolph, New Jersey
Posts: 1,443
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also, since doing this add on voids the warrantee, does weaknees (or anyone else) offer some kind of warrantee to protect those that work with them?
Doug
__________________
'The strong can take from the weak, but the smart take from the strong.'
"The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity."
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04-22-2004, 03:29 PM
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#11
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Way Left
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Posts: 1,995
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Quote:
Originally posted by turls
Not FUD at all. I'm being quite reasonable.
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I'm not suggesting you're being unreasonable, just making sure there's not precedent that I'm not aware of. The good news is, software-wise, weaknees was able to use their existing tools and command lines... they didn't have to hack to make it work. I would THINK that if DirecTV really wanted to prevent it (it's not like they don't know it's going on now), they could have easily thrown in a speed bump before they reached final design.
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04-22-2004, 03:31 PM
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#12
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Way Left
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Posts: 1,995
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paperboy2003
also, since doing this add on voids the warrantee, does weaknees (or anyone else) offer some kind of warrantee to protect those that work with them?
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What incentive would there be for them to warranty your $1000 box, taking responsibility for your mod work, just for selling you a $20 part?
That's just the risk you take when doing this kind of stuff.
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04-22-2004, 03:32 PM
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#13
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Member
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 32
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The maxtor 300gb is 5400rpm, right? Fast enough to keep up when the tivo is recording two HD shows and replaying a 3rd? How about noise/heat? Quieter than the built-in wd2500?
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04-22-2004, 03:40 PM
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#14
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Registered User
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Brookville, NY
Posts: 71
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Michael:
What would be the maximum # of added drives weakness could do as a modification, of course assuming it goes well with one additional drive is there any way weakness could add additional drives outside of the Tivo box?
Lon
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04-22-2004, 04:23 PM
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#15
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TechKnow Guide
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Mill Creek, Washington
Posts: 11,982
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Quote:
Originally posted by ljg
Michael:
What would be the maximum # of added drives weakness could do as a modification, of course assuming it goes well with one additional drive is there any way weakness could add additional drives outside of the Tivo box?
Lon
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My understanding is that without MAJOR modifications Tivo only supports two IDE devices, that is, two hard drives.
Some have speculated that maybe external USB drives could be supported, but really bad things would happen if one of these drives got disconnected because of how Tivo's file system "marries" hard drives together.
__________________
Sony SAT-T60 120GB (v3.5b)
HR20-700, HR20-100, HR21-200 HD DVR
AM21
HR10-250 HD DVR 400GB (v6.4a)
H21-200 HD Receiver
R10 DVR 160GB (v6.4a)
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04-22-2004, 04:40 PM
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#16
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Member
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: New York City
Posts: 89
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Nice going Michael..its upgradeable! its upgradeable! FANTASTIC!
Now another 250 gig is very affordable.
400gig x 2 is what I would most likely love to see.
Again Great News. Keep tinkering you guys...
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HR10-250 HDT i V o (30HD/200SD hours *unmodified)
TOSHIBA 56H80 HDTV
TOSHIBA DST3000 Broken! Make an offer as is.
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04-22-2004, 05:03 PM
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#17
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,858
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Quote:
Originally posted by bkdtv
weaknees,
How long would you guess it wll take you to engineer and mass produce a bracket for the HD Tivo? Are we talking weeks or months?
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We just don't know at this point. We intend to make something that builds on the quality of the TwinBreeze - not something quick and dirty that will result in increased vibration, noise, and heat. We recognize that these boxes are expensive and prized, and we don't intend to take any shortcuts in producing an add-on part for them. We certainly don't want to risk a $1000 machine by engineering a bracket just to get it fast to market.
More info when we have it - we're both professionally and personally eager as well.
Michael
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04-22-2004, 05:05 PM
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#18
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,858
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Quote:
Originally posted by turls
Also, isn't the Maxtor drive much quieter than the stock WD drive?
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This just hasn't been our priority so far - we haven't tested the two side by side in a quiet room.
Our experience at the 40 GB hard drive level shows that the Maxtor QuickViews are much quieter than the WDs, but at this size, we just don't yet know.
Michael
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04-22-2004, 05:07 PM
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#19
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,858
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paperboy2003
How soon is it typically before we get an idea on costs as well as time to get the add on done?
Doug
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It's just too early to know at this point. As soon as we're confident in our testing, we'll begin to get some options out there.
Michael
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04-22-2004, 05:09 PM
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#20
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Sponsor
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Chicago, IL USA
Posts: 2,494
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For those interested in upgrades for their HD TiVo units, we have a mailing list signup here.
We will be making infrequent announcements to the list when brackets, kits, and professional services become available. We have been working on a prototype bracket for the new HD units for awhile and should have something in low volumes in the coming weeks. We tend not to rush these things, and don't release products without the proper testing and documentation, but we'll make an announcement here when the time is right.
Thanks,
Lou
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04-22-2004, 05:10 PM
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#21
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,858
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Quote:
Originally posted by litzdog911
My understanding is that without MAJOR modifications Tivo only supports two IDE devices, that is, two hard drives.
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Two IDE devices per bus (that's the way the spec works), so potentially you could have four devices in a Pioneer or Toshiba since they have dual buses, but that's a whole different issue.
For now, we don't envision a way to go beyond the standard max of two drives.
Michael
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04-22-2004, 05:28 PM
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#22
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TiVo Maniac
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Posts: 278
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Due to heat issues I'd be interested in a possible external housing for both drives. Would need to take power up/down into account but that might be an interesting thing to look into as well.
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I am Porky Pig of Borg. You will be assim... assim... assim... absorbed.
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04-22-2004, 05:36 PM
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#23
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 77
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Quote:
Originally posted by oosik77
Due to heat issues I'd be interested in a possible external housing for both drives. Would need to take power up/down into account but that might be an interesting thing to look into as well.
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You could take this idea one step further and have mutiple external 2 disk "sets" that you could switch between with the proper IDE switcher. This would allow some form of archive capability.
Jay
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04-22-2004, 06:01 PM
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#24
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TiVo Maniac
Join Date: Nov 1999
Location: Phoenix, AZ, USA
Posts: 278
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I'd think that would mess up the program guide and probably cause corruption issues. Unless you mean complete bootable married pairs of drives.
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I am Porky Pig of Borg. You will be assim... assim... assim... absorbed.
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04-22-2004, 06:36 PM
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#25
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Wasting time here
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Randolph, New Jersey
Posts: 1,443
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Quote:
Originally posted by Darin
What incentive would there be for them to warranty your $1000 box, taking responsibility for your mod work, just for selling you a $20 part?
That's just the risk you take when doing this kind of stuff.
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\\
I'm new at this...I was thinking that you send your new HD Tivo to weaknees and they do the work and send it back. If they just send you a kit then I certainly understand that there wouldn't be any kind of warrantee.
Doug
__________________
'The strong can take from the weak, but the smart take from the strong.'
"The two most common elements in the universe are hydrogen and stupidity."
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04-22-2004, 06:43 PM
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#26
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Way Left
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Atlanta, GA USA
Posts: 1,995
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Quote:
Originally posted by Paperboy2003
I was thinking that you send your new HD Tivo to weaknees and they do the work and send it back.
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Well, I believe they have generally offered upgraded TiVos (as in you buy the entire thing from them, already upgraded), and they may carry a warranty. I don't know if you can send yours in & have it upgraded. But whether or not they are willing to take the risk on parts that aren't related to their product is probably going to depend on how much you are spending.
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04-22-2004, 06:46 PM
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#27
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Legally Married
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 9,795
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I don't know if it has been mentioned, but there doesn't seem to be any way of telling if a box had been opened. There's no sticker or anything else. I assume one could always put the original drive back in if there was a warranty issue.
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04-22-2004, 09:09 PM
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#28
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Registered User
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Central Florida
Posts: 77
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Quote:
Originally posted by oosik77
I'd think that would mess up the program guide and probably cause corruption issues. Unless you mean complete bootable married pairs of drives.
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Yes I was referring to "complete bootable married pairs of drives". All you would need to do is re-boot and select the desired drive pair with the IDE switch. Not a terribly elegant solution, but certainly workable and reasonably priced.
Jay
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04-22-2004, 09:19 PM
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#29
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Registered User
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Los Angeles
Posts: 3,858
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Switching drives has certainly been discussed at lenght on these forums, but we really don't believe it's workable. Would you keep all of your Season Passes on each set of drives? Would you have to reboot while you are watching something to be sure that the other set of drives caught something in its To Do list?
You really start to lose the convenience of TiVo and you end up with a digital VCR.
Michael
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04-23-2004, 07:16 AM
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#30
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TiVo Forum Special Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Georgia
Posts: 2,117
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How long for you to add an Ethernet port? 
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Per AstroDad, I have left. Good-Bye.
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