hdtv tivo on a boat

boatguy · 03-19-2004, 12:59 PM

like many of you i pre-ordered and am waiting for the hdtv tivo. i'm new to tivo(have a couple of replaytv units) and have installed a kvh gyro dish and a jvc 26 lcd on a boat we use on weekends during the summer. there will be no power to the unit during the week and no phone line ever(except when i do the set it up at my home). during the weekend it will be powered up and down several times as the batteries/inverter are limited.
i recently learned that the 110 satellite which carries the bulk of the hd programming was incompatiable with gyro dishes so my hd viewing will be limited to hdnet, hdhbo and hd pay per view
i understand the units are not out yet and any help you may offer will be based on the existing non-hd versions so my issues are the following :
1. how long does it take to power up these units from a cold start. i have a zenith 1080 at home and every time it loses power for a time it needs to go through a new channel search and setup. same here?
2. channel surfing is not so quick on the replaytv's. is it the samewith tivo?
3. anything else come to mind?
now that i've learned the limitations of this satellite system, i'm considering a regular direct tivo for limited recording and commercial avoidance and a hi-def receiver to surf and watch the occasional hi def show.
i appreciate any help or comments.

avewill · 03-19-2004, 01:17 PM

Well, I'm pretty new around here, and can only speak to regular definition (not HD) TiVo, but I think your lack of a phone line may pose a problem. It's my understanding that the TiVo needs to call in every week or 2 to download the latest schedule info. Other users here will probably be able to confirm/deny that.

bigpuma · 03-19-2004, 01:23 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by avewill
Well, I'm pretty new around here, and can only speak to regular definition (not HD) TiVo, but I think your lack of a phone line may pose a problem. It's my understanding that the TiVo needs to call in every week or 2 to download the latest schedule info. Other users here will probably be able to confirm/deny that.

That is not true of the DirecTV tivos, they obtain guide data from the satelite directly. Assuming the HD direcTivos are the same that shouldn't be a problem.

1. They seem to come on within a minute or two if I power off my directivos. I am not sure if it would be affected by being off for so long. Mine are never off more than a few minutes at a time.
2. Channel changing is very fast because it is a combo receiver and tivo. Since you don't have to wait for the IR transmitter to change the channel it is the same as using a regular receiver without tivo.

I hope that helps.

jdk · 03-19-2004, 01:59 PM

Can your gyro dish see two satellites at once? I thought these systems usually only pointed at one location at a time - but I really haven't looked into them that much - the yacht is on backorder

If you can get both 101 and 119 at the same time, then you should be good-to-go with the HD channels you mentioned, as well as CBS-HD, if you're eligible for it.

As long as you get the HD-Tivo set up and working at home with a phone line, it should work OK after that. A phone line is required for initial setup, but not after that. You will get daily nag screens after 30 days of not being plugged into the phone line, but once you clear the message, the box works just fine.

Tivo's aren't too speedy upon boot. There's a long initialization sequence, and _then_ it has to go through its satellite data download phase. There's no human interaction required - its all done automatically, but you do have to wait.

I believe the general consensus is that die-hard channel surfers won't be pleased with a DirecTivo. Its not _that_ slow, but if you're the type to flip-flip-flip-flip to see what's on 4 different channels, you'll have to click-wait-click-wait-... The general response on these boards is "you don't need to channel surf anyway". Coming from an original generic RCA DirecTV box, and then UltimateTV, I find the DirecTivo to be too slow in channel changes, but its something that's less important with DVR functionality. But I'm sure it'll be quicker than what you're used to, if you've been using ReplayTV-IR Blaster-DirecTV Box combo.

bigpuma · 03-19-2004, 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by boatguy

i recently learned that the 110 satellite which carries the bulk of the hd programming was incompatiable with gyro dishes so my hd viewing will be limited to hdnet, hdhbo and hd pay per view

If your boat will be located within 30 - 40 miles of the television towers, you could get the zenith silver sensor antenae and probably pull in local HD stations. It is a fairly small indoor UHF indoor antenae that is supposed to have great range. All of the HD receivers will also work for OTA HD signals including the new HDTivo.

JimSpence · 03-19-2004, 04:42 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by boatguy
i recently learned that the 110 satellite which carries the bulk of the hd programming was incompatiable with gyro dishes so my hd viewing will be limited to hdnet, hdhbo and hd pay per view

But, I believe that HDNET, HBOHD and HD PPV are on the 119 satellite. So how will this work for you? The only HD on 101 is CBS-HD both east and west.

boatguy · 03-19-2004, 04:54 PM

thanks guys, great info. i'm looking forward to joining you tivo-ers. the replaytv's have been great(i've had them since inception of the service) but you're right about the speed and conversion issues.
fyi, the boat is about 60 miles from the tv towers and on a mooring in constant motion. btw, the dish only can look at one satellite at a time but their web site bulletin claims we can get the limited hd(web page below).

http://kvh.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/kvh....ted=1071840648

dswallow · 03-19-2004, 05:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by boatguy
thanks guys, great info. i'm looking forward to joining you tivo-ers. the replaytv's have been great(i've had them since inception of the service) but you're right about the speed and conversion issues.
fyi, the boat is about 60 miles from the tv towers and on a mooring in constant motion. btw, the dish only can look at one satellite at a time but their web site bulletin claims we can get the limited hd(web page below).

http://kvh.custhelp.com/cgi-bin/kvh....ted=1071840648

The LNB used to receive the 110° satellite signal block-converts the frequencies to a different location than a regular LNB would such that they can be combined with the signal from 119°. The reason they do this is because DirecTV owns licenses for just 3 transponders at 110° but those frequencies overlap with transponders it has licenses for at 119°, and since DirecTV also only has a subset of transponders at 119° block-converting the 110° frequencies to space DirecTV doesn't own at 119° allows them to avoid having to use multiswitches capable of selecting 5 different satellite inputs. That's probably why the KVH antenna isn't compatible -- when pointed at 110°, the signals would be in the wrong frequencies, and that wouldn't match up correctly with channel information stored on the receiver.

But it looks like you're OK for everything else.

Darin · 03-19-2004, 05:30 PM

You need a second gyro dish.

Swap out the LNB with a sat-C LNB, and put in a multiswitch and high frequency signal splitter so it's only mixed with with the output from the other dish when it's pointed at 119, and WALLA!!

boatguy · 03-19-2004, 05:39 PM

very interesting doug. this is speculative but since you seem to be on the cutting edge, any idea of whether the new dtv 7s satellite being launched will change things for us "one satellite at a time" folk?
also, what about hd on dish or voom if i really run out of things to do?

dswallow · 03-19-2004, 05:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by boatguy
very interesting doug. this is speculative but since you seem to be on the cutting edge, any idea of whether the new dtv 7s satellite being launched will change things for us "one satellite at a time" folk?
also, what about hd on dish or voom if i really run out of things to do?

DirecTV 7S is going to provide spot beams for local markets now at 110° and 119° instead of local markets being on continental US transponders; I suppose if you're getting any of those local markets, there's a good chance you no longer will be able to.

Otherwise, no effect, except possibly to move some programming that is to be delivered nationally over to 101°. I don't think there's been any clear statement if DirecTV 7S will be used configured for 100% spot beams on all transponders or if there'll still be some continental transponders in use.

Darin · 03-19-2004, 06:36 PM

It should certainly still be using some conus transponders... there are several things at 119 that need to remain conus, like para todos, some HD, and a few national SD channels. There's no reason for spots to require all 11 transponders they own at 119. Dan Collins has reported that the conus transponders are higher power than what they've been using in the past, which would be ideal for HD since that may enable them to use less FEC, and possibly have to re-compress less (or not at all).

IIRC, the last time I did a guestimate of what 7s would do, by the time you moved all of 119's conus LILs over to spots, and consumed some conus transponders for the slots, the net result would be one, or MAYBE two additional conus slots at 119. Quite a few more should be freed up at 101. So the good news for someone with a single gyro dish is that all additional capacity should be seen at 119 and 101.

willardcpa · 03-19-2004, 06:50 PM

Quote:

"the boat is about 60 miles from the tv towers and on a mooring in constant motion"

Where's "constant motion"??

jdk · 03-19-2004, 07:23 PM

If you're looking for the most HD from one orbital slot, then VOOM is the way to go. All their programming comes from the 61 degree slot, plus they currently are the HD leader in programming options. If this boat is on the East Cost, it will have no problems picking up signals from the VOOM satellite. On the west coast - as long as you're just off shore, you should be OK. If you're moored in a West coast harbor, then there might be something blocking your LOS to VOOM.

Thinking some more - you mentioned that this box will remain off most of the time, and powered up for just for viewing. I feel the big advantage to PVRs is their ability to always be on, recording stuff for you such that its waiting for you when you sit down. You won't have that advatage with a "battery powered Tivo", right? Of course, if money is no object, then an HD Tivo is the way to go, but you might consider saving $600 and just getting a regular HD receiver...

Bigg · 03-20-2004, 07:00 AM

You watch too mcuh tv. You could TiVo it @ home, and save a lot of $$$$!!!

boatguy · 03-20-2004, 09:23 AM

wow! thanks. it's great to get intelligent responses and logical explanations(for the most part). the gyro satellite people really didn't have a clue.
if the hd tivo get's here in the next 60 days or so, it'll go in. it's good to know it probably won't require a land line (voom supposedly does). i guess i'll have to suffer through the boot up and slow surfing(kidding of course). at the end of summer it'll go into the home system.

Skankboy · 03-21-2004, 09:22 PM

Proof of installing the system on a boat, automatically gets you a Network waiver, so you could get the big 4 locals and CBS-HD.

Just a thought

http://www.directv.com/DTVAPP/learn/dns_vehicles.dsp

weldon · 03-22-2004, 12:43 PM

If you did do the vehicle afadavit thing for Distant Networks, I believe you would have to pay for the programming twice instead of the $4.99 mirror fee for the second receiver.

kosh · 03-22-2004, 01:12 PM

I have a question for you? If the unit is going to be powered off
most of the time then you won't be able to record anything.
Why do you need a tivo, let alone an HDTivo? Just curious.

boatguy · 03-23-2004, 01:40 AM

good question kosh. i'm trying to sort it out myself. i figure i'd like a high def tuner since i receive some high def over direct tv and have a hd tv. it'll also be nice to have some stored hd programming on the tivo to show off to my fellow boaters. even when i'm watching programs at home near the broadcast time, i always wait a bit to watch them on replay to skip commercials so i could do the same with this. i can keep unit on some time during the w/e if there's something worth recording.
the truth is i don't watch much tv at home or on the boat but i don't see any downside in having a dialed-in system just in case.
i think i need one!

Bigg · 03-24-2004, 01:58 PM

If you don;t watch much TV why do you need anything more than a basic DTiVo with total chioce? Anything mre than an antenna or cable that a mariena offers is overkill for a boat or RV.

Kevin L · 03-24-2004, 02:21 PM

Only problem, Bigg, is many marinas don't have cable and are quite far from the broadcast antenna giving you nothing but snow on a lot of channels. Also, cable isn't an answer if you want to hang on the hook for the night.

boatguy · 03-24-2004, 05:38 PM

the boat is moored at an island for the summer. no cable or antenna possibilities. i agree it's overkill but i'll just die $899. (plus shipping) poorer.

dave3 · 03-24-2004, 05:58 PM

hey boat guy more power to ya if you want HD on your boat!!!!!!!!! I wish I could afford to just put DTV on mine, but the wife would definatly make me pay for it if I did that.

magicbus · 10-20-2004, 12:41 AM

I have a bus, not a boat and am going through all the same things. Mine's a Winegard RM-9946 which cranks up automatically and finds the satellite by itself when I park. I have had Dish Network for years and have had a couple of their recorder/receiver units (now on a 510 unit). I want to go to HDTV, and have a new Sharp HDTV on order. Tivo seems to be better than the Dish recorders, mainly because of the season pass function which for some reason Dish can't duplicate. My questions for the experts, please:

1. Is it still true that I can't get Direct TV HD with my one-satellite-at-a-time set up, because of the difference in LNB's? If so, I suppose Dish Network is my only HD option, right?

2. I know I can get the Dish Network HD DVR, but if I really, really want Tivo, I assume I could get a Dish HD receiver, and a separate Tivo unit (saving $$$), right? Or am I right in thinking that this won't work because non-satellite-integrated Tivo's require a regular phone call home?

3. Which Tivo's can use an internet connection instead of the phone call? How is this connection made? USB to an internet-connected PC, or to a LAN or what?

Sorry for the flood of questions and thanks for your help!

capt pat · 01-19-2006, 05:06 PM

[quote=Skankboy]Proof of installing the system on a boat, automatically gets you a Network waiver, so you could get the big 4 locals and CBS-HD.

Just a thought

"Boats and other marine vessels do not qualify for this special consideration" per the DirecTV website. It's only for commercial trucks and some RVs. You have to send in your vehicle registration as part of the process. Your Coast Guard Documentation will not do!

I get local channels on my boat, which I keep over 100 miles from my home. Those are the local channels that I get as part of my "local channel" package from DirecTV. I don't get HD local channels though. But that's a much longer story.

capt pat · 01-19-2006, 05:37 PM

I have a Tivo at home as well as a couple other DirecTV receivers. I also have service at my boat, though only while I'm in the marina. My boat's triple LNB antenna is attached to the dock in the marina which holds still just fine.

I'm trying to figure out what to expect from a gyro satellite antenna when I'm at anchor? (I won't be watching TV under way.) I haven't bought one yet, but I'd like to for the upcoming season. And I've been a satellite user and HD user long enough to know this always gets complicated ...

Is it true that I will get nothing on satellite 110?
Do I even care?
How do I even know what programming is on a specific satellite?

I added an HD TV on the boat recently. The gyro antennas claim they will provide HD programming from DirecTV. I'm trying to understand what the usability will be like. If I go to my TIVO and select an HD program, and my gyro antenna is pointing at the 101 satellite, will my antenna be smart enough to just move to 119?

And while that "antenna repointing" is going on, what do I see on my TV screen? "Searching for satellite?" And how long does that move take? More than a minute?

Will the gyro antenna even point at a satellite that is used to provide "local HD channels?" (I don't even know what satellite that is.)

And finally, when I first turn on my equipment, which is powered off more than not, will I have complex startup procedures? For instance, I keep my boat in a covered slip. When I turn on my engines and generator, the newly proposed gyro antenna can not see the sky.

So do I have to wait until I'm under way before I power on the home entertainment equipment? Do I have to power on the antenna first? And won't that antenna be pointed at only one satellite? Then when I power on the receiver, won't the receiver rebuild a channel list? And won't that channel list be missing all channels on the other satellites? (I'm so confused.)

Is there a reason to select Tivo or NOT Tivo (and just a regular HD receiver) at the boat? Since this is a boat, money is not the concern (or I woudn't have a boat :-)

Any answers to any of these questions would be greatly welcome. Especially if you have already done this yourself!

Thanks.

oldskoolboarder · 01-19-2006, 05:38 PM

would you tivo on a boat?
would you tivo w/ a goat?
would you tivo here or there?
I would tivo everywhere.

Arcady · 01-19-2006, 05:48 PM

HDTV on your yacht... Yeah whatever.

Pay an installer.

bigpuma · 01-19-2006, 06:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by capt pat

I have a Tivo at home as well as a couple other DirecTV receivers. I also have service at my boat, though only while I'm in the marina. My boat's triple LNB antenna is attached to the dock in the marina which holds still just fine.

I'm trying to figure out what to expect from a gyro satellite antenna when I'm at anchor? (I won't be watching TV under way.) I haven't bought one yet, but I'd like to for the upcoming season. And I've been a satellite user and HD user long enough to know this always gets complicated ...

Is it true that I will get nothing on satellite 110?
Do I even care?
How do I even know what programming is on a specific satellite?

I added an HD TV on the boat recently. The gyro antennas claim they will provide HD programming from DirecTV. I'm trying to understand what the usability will be like. If I go to my TIVO and select an HD program, and my gyro antenna is pointing at the 101 satellite, will my antenna be smart enough to just move to 119?

And while that "antenna repointing" is going on, what do I see on my TV screen? "Searching for satellite?" And how long does that move take? More than a minute?

Will the gyro antenna even point at a satellite that is used to provide "local HD channels?" (I don't even know what satellite that is.)

And finally, when I first turn on my equipment, which is powered off more than not, will I have complex startup procedures? For instance, I keep my boat in a covered slip. When I turn on my engines and generator, the newly proposed gyro antenna can not see the sky.

So do I have to wait until I'm under way before I power on the home entertainment equipment? Do I have to power on the antenna first? And won't that antenna be pointed at only one satellite? Then when I power on the receiver, won't the receiver rebuild a channel list? And won't that channel list be missing all channels on the other satellites? (I'm so confused.)

Is there a reason to select Tivo or NOT Tivo (and just a regular HD receiver) at the boat? Since this is a boat, money is not the concern (or I woudn't have a boat :-)

Any answers to any of these questions would be greatly welcome. Especially if you have already done this yourself!

Thanks.

I don't know all the answers to your questions but I did have a brief experience with one of these gyroscope satelite dishes on a houseboat. On the boat they had DISHNET service but behind the receiver was a device that allowed you to choose which satelite to look at. It included the 3 DirecTV satelites as well as 2 (I think) DISH sats. I imagine you would just have to know what sat you need for which channels, I believe this information is available.

The dish could stay on the satelite while moving without missing a beat. This was a houseboat on a lake, I don't know how it would work on the ocean with decent swells though. I can't see any reason to get a standard HD receiver over the HD Tivo. Anyway that was my experience.