All things Buffy

[peitsche]

Well, I thought it is time for a new Buffy thread. I belong to the rare species that has never watched Buffy when it aired on T.V. Primarily based on talk here I decided to give it a try on DVD. Heck, after reading that some people still have a SP on their Tivo even though there won't be any more new episodes, I figured there is a good chance I'll get sucked into this show. I don't think I'm quite there yet but I'm starting to enjoy the characters and the storylines.

Here is where I am right now in the series, followed by a few questions:

-- I just finished watching Inca Mummy Girl (episode 4 of season two) where we get introduced to a lead guitarist named Oz. I will be watching episodes 5-8 later this week.

-- questions:

1) Is it just me (or does it change later?) who feels that Cordelia's transition from outcast (from the core group point's of view) to member of the group is somewhat random and sloppy? It seems Cordelia all of a sudden happens to be near the action even though she doesn't exactly want to have anything to do with the "losers." I just don't understand how she becomes part of the group later. Even though I never watched the show before, it is hard to fail to notice that she is going to be a major character.

2) In your opinion, should I start watching Angel in the order it aired on T.V. (in relation to Buffy's original air dates, that is), meaning I start watching the first season of Angel when I start watching the fourth season of Buffy? Or should I watch all seven seasons of Buffy before I jump into Angel?

3) Since a lot of people seem to like season 2 so much, what are your favorite episodes or scenes from that season? Please keep in mind that I'm still in the beginning of the season, so spoiler tags are appreciated for matters concerning the later episodes of season two.


I hope this thread will bring back memories for some of you and provide incentives for newbies to give this show a try!

[jon777]

I'd recommend watching Season 4 of Buffy with Season 1 of Angel. There are multiple cross-over episodes where it is helpful to know what is going on in the other show to full appreciate the overall picture. I just watched Season 1 of Angel before having watched Season 4 of Buffy and there were a couple of plot points that are better explained by watching both in sequence. Better (but not completely necessary) to do in sequence if you can...

[Fleegle]

Originally posted by peitsche
Well, I thought it is time for a new Buffy thread. I belong to the rare species that has never watched Buffy when it aired on T.V. Primarily based on talk here I decided to give it a try on DVD. Heck, after reading that some people still have a SP on their Tivo even though there won't be any more new episodes, I figured there is a good chance I'll get sucked into this show. I don't think I'm quite there yet but I'm starting to enjoy the characters and the storylines.

Here is where I am right now in the series, followed by a few questions:

-- I just finished watching Inca Mummy Girl (episode 4 of season two) where we get introduced to a lead guitarist named Oz. I will be watching episodes 5-8 later this week.

-- questions:

1) Is it just me (or does it change later?) who feels that Cordelia's transition from outcast (from the core group point's of view) to member of the group is somewhat random and sloppy? It seems Cordelia all of a sudden happens to be near the action even though she doesn't exactly want to have anything to do with the "losers." I just don't understand how she becomes part of the group later. Even though I never watched the show before, it is hard to fail to notice that she is going to be a major character.

2) In your opinion, should I start watching Angel in the order it aired on T.V. (in relation to Buffy's original air dates, that is), meaning I start watching the first season of Angel when I start watching the fourth season of Buffy? Or should I watch all seven seasons of Buffy before I jump into Angel?

3) Since a lot of people seem to like season 2 so much, what are your favorite episodes or scenes from that season? Please keep in mind that I'm still in the beginning of the season, so spoiler tags are appreciated for matters concerning the later episodes of season two.


I hope this thread will bring back memories for some of you and provide incentives for newbies to give this show a try!

1) I think Cordy's early arc was to be the Damsel in Distress who comes to rely on the "losers" when she realizes that they are the ones protecting everyone. She's just hanging around with them to save her own skin. ...At first

2) It can't hurt to watch them in the order you're suggesting. There isn't TOO much in teh way or crossovers, but the ones that they have are nice.

3) My favorite Season Two episode is School Hard, whch introduces Spike and Dru. There are some really good episodes later, but, For God's sake, wtch them in order! Just trust me on this one!

[LlamaLarry]

I also did not watch Buffy when it was on the air, but thankfully my dad is a Buffy nut and I bought him all the Bufy DVDs (along with Angel). I definitely recommend doing season 4 and Angel 1 at the same time to get the flow. I will be doing the same with 5 and Angel 2 once I give him the presents.

[DreadPirateRob]

Congrats for finally discovering the wonders of the Buffyverse - better late than never. Pound for pound, it may have been the best written and acted show ever. I still miss it (and yes, I am one of the ones who refuses to delete my season pass out of reverence. I also still have the finale saved in my Now Playing section, and will keep it there until S7 comes out on DVD)

Originally posted by peitsche
1) Is it just me (or does it change later?) who feels that Cordelia's transition from outcast (from the core group point's of view) to member of the group is somewhat random and sloppy? It seems Cordelia all of a sudden happens to be near the action even though she doesn't exactly want to have anything to do with the "losers." I just don't understand how she becomes part of the group later. Even though I never watched the show before, it is hard to fail to notice that she is going to be a major character.

I don't believe that Cordelia was originally intended to be part of the Scoobs - it just evolved that way. (Little bit of trivia for you - SMG originally read for the part of Cordy). Charisma Carpenter was tailor-made to play that role, and became very popular with the writers and cast, and eventually, the fans. As such, she got more and more screen time, and the only way to justify it was to make her part of the Scooby Gang.

Without spoiling too much, her transition into full-fledged Scoobydom kind of comes in fits and starts, but it is logical. She is in the wrong place and the wrong time far too often, only to be saved time and again by the Scoobs, and comes to appreciate them. I'm not going to go into the Tao of Cordy or anything (although while browsing in B&N the other day I did see a book on the Philosophy of Buffy. Perusing it, it appeared to be an anthology of academic dissertations on the meaning of life as expressed on the show. A bit scary, if you ask me), but you could argue she starts to find a purpose behind her shallow existence by helping fight evil. All in all, Cordy evolves very significantly and satisfyingly, but it is a long arc that lasts 7 full seasons (thought not necessarily all on BtVS).

2) In your opinion, should I start watching Angel in the order it aired on T.V. (in relation to Buffy's original air dates, that is), meaning I start watching the first season of Angel when I start watching the fourth season of Buffy? Or should I watch all seven seasons of Buffy before I jump into Angel?

I'd echo the post above - S4 of Buffy and S1 of Angel had quite a bit of cross-over as they were trying to establish Angel as its own show, and thus the crossovers are used to advance the plot on both series. If you are experiencing both for the first time, I would watch them together. I don't have Angel S1 yet, but I would hope the ep quide would indicate where the crossovers are.

3) Since a lot of people seem to like season 2 so much, what are your favorite episodes or scenes from that season? Please keep in mind that I'm still in the beginning of the season, so spoiler tags are appreciated for matters concerning the later episodes of season two.

As I said above, you haven't even gotten to the good stuff yet. Among most Buffyphiles, S2 and S3 are widely regarded as being the best seasons of the show. All of the seasons had amazing episodes, but it seems as if nearly ep in Seasons 2 and 3 was outstanding.

My favorite S2 episodes start with "Halloween" (ep 2.6, or 18 overall), which starts a string of 5 consecutive very strong eps ("Lie to Me","Dark Age", and "What's My Line" Pts 1 and 2). Then you get "Ted" and "Bad Eggs", which are Monster of the Week (MotW) type eps - fine and all, but not nearly as good as the more plot-advancing ones. Then, the season closes with a bang, 9 out of 10 episodes that are simply amazing (the only weak link is "Go Fish" another MotW, which isn't really that bad. You'll soon learn that the worst Buffy episode is better written than nearly everything else on TV). In particular, "Bewitched, Bothered, and Bewildered ", "Passion", "Killed by Death", and the 2 part finale "Becoming" 1&2 are all incredible hours (well, 42 minutes) of television.

[Freki]

I second the recommendation for watching S4 of Buffy concurrently with S1 of Angel. They aired new episodes back to back when they were originally shown, and the crossover episodes will make more sense if they're watched together.

You may have a point about Cordelia's association with the gang being a bit sloppy, though it doesn't really bother me. I chalk it up to Cordelia being shallow enough to be worried about her social status, but having a good heart that won't let her ignore the wierdness now that she knows about it.

Season 2 was a very uneven season for me. It had some of the very best episodes of the entire series, and some of the worst. The story arc for the season was one of the best they ever did, though, and the 2-part season finale is the defining moment of the show. You've got Lie to Me coming up soon, which is one of my favorites, and Halloween was a fun episode. The season really kicks into high gear with the Surprise/Innocence two-parter around episode 12. Avoid spoilers if at all possible, there are some big surprises coming up.

[Skittles]

Having watched Season 4 of Buffy and Season 1 of Angel separately, I highly recommend watching them at the same time. I suggest doing the same for Season 5 of Buffy and Season 2 of Angel.

School Hard is almost my favorite of the Season 2 episodes. Go Fish and Becoming (part two) are honorable mentions.

[Rob Helmerichs]

I wouldn't worry too much about the cross-overs between Buffy and Angel--as has been said, it's nice to watch them in the order as originally aired, but you will miss very, very little if you don't.

If you can, great, you'll get a couple of nifty bits, but don't lose any sleep over it!

[Skittles]

Oh, I forgot to add....

I never really cared for the Cordelia character during the second season of Buffy. She'll really blossom into a much more interesting (though not necessarily likeable) character as time passes on the show.

Season 2 was probably one of the weaker ones for me. It has its moments (School Hard is still one of my top 10 episodes), but it's certainly no Season 5 or Season 3.

[scooterboy]

Jeez, now you guys have me again wondering whether I should get into this show. Sounds very addictive.

I'm giving a friend Season 1 on DVD for Xmas - he's a huge fan and has been extolling the virtues of Buffydom to me since the first season. For some reason I just never gave it a shot. I've watched a minute or two while channel surfing but I suppose you need to know the characters to
really "get it".

Perhaps I'll borrow Season 1 from him after he unwraps it.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Originally posted by Skittles
I never really cared for the Cordelia character during the second season of Buffy. She'll really blossom into a much more interesting (though not necessarily likable) character as time passes on the show.

Interestingly, I found just the opposite. When she was just a shallow, brainless, self-absorbed twit, she was fine. But as they deepened the character, it only served to emphasize Carpenter's remarkable thespian limitations. The girl can't act.

[Skittles]

Originally posted by Medieval Guy
Interestingly, I found just the opposite. When she was just a shallow, brainless, self-absorbed twit, she was fine. But as they deepened the character, it only served to emphasize Carpenter's remarkable thespian limitations. The girl can't act.

And see, I thought that (warning, spoilers from Angel)...

Spoiler:

Once her character moves out of BtVS/Sunnydale and into Angel/Los Angeles, she's given the chance to become a lot more diverse and faceted... especially by the third season of Angel. She was dreadful in the first season of Angel (moreso than she ever was in Buffy), but once Doyle is out of the show, she gets her chance to shine.

Of course, I'm only barely into the third season of Angel, so I can't speak for anything beyond that.

[Skittles]

Originally posted by scooterboy
Jeez, now you guys have me again wondering whether I should get into this show. Sounds very addictive.

I'm giving a friend Season 1 on DVD for Xmas - he's a huge fan and has been extolling the virtues of Buffydom to me since the first season. For some reason I just never gave it a shot. I've watched a minute or two while channel surfing but I suppose you need to know the characters to
really "get it".

Perhaps I'll borrow Season 1 from him after he unwraps it.

[UMF]If it helps, Amazon.com has a package with Seasons 1 - 4 on DVD for $118... free shipping included. At that price, even if you hate the show, you can still sell it used on eBay and just about get all your money back [/UMF]

[sschwart]

I'll echo that you should watch Angel 1 and Buffy 4 at the same time. There's a lot more that can be picked up on, and you can appreciate some of the nuances that otherwise you don't see. My favorite from season 2 is Becoming.

And as for Charisma... She sometimes seems to be an incredible actress. Othertimes she seems to be a terrible one. Getting her character into the scooby gang may have been a little forced, but it's rewarding to have her there in the end.

And scooterboy, I really do recommend it. Borrow the DVD's from him and watch a few hours. You will get hooked

[Peter000]

Though it's nice to have the DVD's, you can catch all of the eps, in order for the most part, on FX.

I thought season 2 is really when the series really began to shine. I liked it far better than season 5 (I thought the big bad on Season 5 was kinda lame).

[AJRitz]

Damn! First I'm UMF'ed by a coffeemaker yesterday over in the Happy Hour. Now, I'm getting Buffy UMF'ed in Now Playing! I never got into Buffy while it was on - I was in law school during the early seasons and really didn't have TV time available. But I'm feeling myself getting sucked in. I've got a friend who's been collecting the DVD's since they started rolling out. I think I'm going to have to start borrowing.

[scooterboy]

Originally posted by Peter000
Though it's nice to have the DVD's, you can catch all of the eps, in order for the most part, on FX.

Any idea when they'll start from the beginning again? Or should I set up a WL for "Buffy Pilot"?

[cello]

I don't know if the description says pilot - does anybody know? The title of the pilot is "welcome to the hellmouth" though. Be careful - I think that it's a 2-parter (with both parts having the same name), and you'll want to catch both.

FX can be a bit weird. Sometimes the guide data will get really off. When I was trying to record all the episodes, I sometimes set it to record all the showings in a day, even if they weren't listed as being the right episode. Very frustrating.

[cheesesteak]

There are only three "important" S1 Buffy episodes: the first one, the last one and "Angel". I loved the characters but the remaining stories were kind of weak. Season 2 is when the show really took off for me.

It's your money, but I'd just record the two daily hours on F/X at whatever point they are. It'll eventually loop back to the beginning. That's how I got into the show. I never saw a "live" episode until the beginning of season 6.

[rickertk]

Given that they are at the end of Season 3 now, and at 2 episodes a day, probably about 2.5 months or so? The pilot episode is titled "Welcome to the Hellmouth", which probably gives you some fairly good keywords for a wishlist.

Keith

[DreadPirateRob]

One thing re the FX reruns - they are often edited/cut differently than the original ones were when aired. Most jarring is the S6 musical episode "Once More With Feeling" - it was longer than an hour when originally aired, but it was cut down quite a bit when the repeat aired.

[cello]

that's a good point. A lot of what they cut out are the little nuances that give the show character, for the sake of commercials. I also find the sound to be really off on FX's airings - something I find for almost everything I've watched on that channel. Definitely watch the DVDs if you can get your hands on them. And if you buy the first 4 seasons with the Amazon deal and decide you don't like them, I'm sure you could find someone around these parts to take them off your hands.

[tapegasser]

I've mention this before, season 4 of 'Angel' is a jaw-dropper. Cordy is the only thing that blows! I really can't stand that actress or character.

[ClutchBrake]

Originally posted by tapegasser
I've mention this before, season 4 of 'Angel' is a jaw-dropper. Cordy is the only thing that blows! I really can't stand that actress or character.

Agreed. I'm absolutely loving season 1 of Angel. I don't hate Cordy though. I didn't like her on Buffy but really enjoy her on Angel.

Season 1 of Angel has been worth it thus far if for nothing more than Angel's dance interlude in "Expecting". I had to instant replay that several times.

[Rob Helmerichs]

Originally posted by ClutchBrake
Season 1 of Angel has been worth it thus far if for nothing more than Angel's dance interlude in "Expecting". I had to instant replay that several times.

Wait 'til he saves the puppy!

[Bill Reeves]

Originally posted by ClutchBrake
Season 1 of Angel has been worth it thus far if for nothing more than Angel's dance interlude in "Expecting". I had to instant replay that several times.

That was a classic, but my favorite is late in Season 2. "Numfar, do the dance of joy!"

[ccwf]

Originally posted by cello
I don't know if the description says pilot - does anybody know? The title of the pilot is "welcome to the hellmouth" though.

Originally posted by rickertk
The pilot episode is titled "Welcome to the Hellmouth", which probably gives you some fairly good keywords for a wishlist.

Again (as mentioned in past Buffy threads), to nitpick a little, "Welcome to the Hellmouth" is the premiere episode. Buffy also had a separate pilot (which is similar to the premiere episode), which the BBC Buffy site calls "The Pilot", which Julie Benz calls "The Pilot Presentation" and "The Presentation", and which many fan sites call "The Buffy Pilot" and "The Unaired Pilot" and similar names. Here is some video of Julie Benz discussing the pilot.

[firerose818]

I have to agree that "School Hard" is a great episode, but "Becoming, Part 2" is probably my favorite episode of the season. But I thought season 5 (and especially "Fool for Love") was the best season of all. So, you have a lot of great Buffy to look forward to!

I never got into Angel though - maybe I will have to start when it hits syndication. (or is it there already?)

-Rose

[ccwf]

Originally posted by firerose818
I never got into Angel though - maybe I will have to start when it hits syndication. (or is it there already?)

Yes, Angel is in syndication.

[FuzzyDolly]

Ahhh... Buffy! What a fantastic show! I'd love to see a spinoff with Willow in England. I think "Once more with feeling" is one of my favorite episodes. If for no other reason, than to see Anya sing about bunnies. FYI, they sell the songs on a CD. "Hush" is another one of my favs. Also, the book DreadPirate Rob mentioned " Buffy the Vampire Slayer and Philosphy" is a great book. There's a few others in the series. There's one about the Matrix (fantastic), one about the Simpsons, and one about the Lord of the Rings (last two not read yet.) If you're looking for other good Buffy books, pick up "Seven Seasons of Buffy : Science fiction and fantasy writers discuss their favorite show", and "Fighting the Forces: What's at stake in Buffy the Vampire Slayer." Really shouldn't forget the script and song book to "Once more with Feeling." I miss my Buffy! Hopefully I'll find the new season in my stocking this year!