Success Adding (and replacing) drives to Pioneer TiVo/DVD

tivoupgrade · 11-19-2003, 04:23 PM

Here's an update on the Pioneer DVR upgrade movement...

Success with both the addition and replacement of drives in both the Pioneer DVR-57H and Pioneer DVR-810H* units.

Here's the scoop:

1) regardless of whether you plan on replacing or adding a drive you'll need a backup of a DVR-57H image, as the DVR-810H images thusfar have, for some reason, been impervious to utilization by MFStools (ie MFStools doesn't work for the software image on the DVR-810); with that in mind, if you have a DVR-810H you really have no choice whether to replace or not, its just a question of whether you want to replace with one or two drives. if you've got a DVR-57H, you do have the option of simply adding a drive. this can be done with MFStools or BlessTiVo, but bear in mind, that if you add a drive, the two will be married - so best to have a backup in case of a drive failure in the future.

Update: As mentioned previously... many Pioneer 810HS models do not behave "as expected" when it comes to expanding images using the -x or mfsadd commands. Up until a few months ago, there were a few 810HS images floating around that were "expandable" but many folks found that the traditional backup/restore and expand operation did not work as expected. With that said, JamieP developed a tool called "toshiba_unlock" which solves this problem for the Pioneer/Toshiba DVD models that exhibit this behavior. The tool is bundled with our LBA48 CD (free download) available here.

2) for drives greater than 137GB, you'll need a bootable CD, such as our free lba48 cd available here, so that you can fully access the capacity; there are details on using tpip for initializing your swap space on the site, as well in the startup for the bootable drive - but keep in mind that reliably creating a > 127GB swap file on Pioneer units is not yet possible, and that there is a bug in mfsfix on the TiVo 5.2 OS, so its unlikely that anyone will benefit from a > 127GB swap file on these units; you can use MFStools in whatever way you are most comfortable.

3) adding a drive, from a hardware perspective, is not as easy as replacing a drive; you need to remove the DVD recorder and then the tray beneath to expose both IDE interfaces, and replace the secondary IDE interface cable with a dual IDE cable. Removing the tray is not *that* difficult, but you do need an extra long #2 Philips screwdriver to get to one of the screws near the front cover. you will also need to open the DVD drive while the power is on and unsnap the bezel from the front of the drive tray (very easy to do) so that you can slide the DVD drive off the tray from inside. i'm sure we'll have some photos of this shortly.

4) the real issue when adding a drive is where to mount it, and we're considering some possibilities there. SmartStart should handle any concerns related to power (we've tested with a Maxtor and Samsung together), but certainly not a requirement as the unit boots just fine with two drives and the DVD recorder. Cooling is definitely a concern, but not something we're particularly worried about as long as the unit is in a properly ventilated space.

My overall feeling here is that adding a drive is something to shy away from for a variety of reasons, however for those who are 'into it' its certainly quite doable for those willing to completely disassemble what appears to be a nice new toy.

Lou

Twist · 11-19-2003, 05:30 PM

Great! Who is going to be kind enough to share their DVR-57H image so I can upgrade my DVR-810H? =).

-Twist

9thTee · 11-19-2003, 05:39 PM

You will need a special bracket to mount the second drive and are working on mods to the PTVupgrade/9thTee bracket to accomodate this unit. We will post when more information if available.

Mark
9thTee.com

boone · 11-21-2003, 02:32 PM

Me to please

tivoupgrade · 11-21-2003, 02:39 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by boone
Me to please

To quote Robert S,

"click"

DCIFRTHS · 11-26-2003, 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by tivoupgrade
To quote Robert S,

"click"

Lou,

The link isn't working or I don't have access to this thread. Would you confirm please?

Thanks.

Robert S · 11-26-2003, 08:44 AM

Lou had started a thread called something like 'request your images here!' in the hope that people would add to that thread rather than each start a new one. Surprisingly, it was actually working - you'll notice there aren't any 'I'm too lazy to use Google, can someone tell me where a backup is?' threads over the last few days.

Now the thread has disappeared without trace. Hmmmm...

tivoupgrade · 11-26-2003, 10:11 AM

Yes, the thread has disappeared without a trace. I didn't delete it. Nor did I get any emails from the moderators (I sent them an email prior to creating the thread), but I can only assume that someone didn't like it.

DCIFRTHS · 12-20-2003, 09:31 AM

A few questions for expanding a 57H image on a 300 GB drive.

1) Boot using Lou's disk. Is the kernal it boots with the one I should be using for my upgrade?
2) Use MFSTOOLS2 to expand the disk.
3) Increase swap size to ??? MB? How do I do this if the max is 127 MB using MFSTOOLS 2?

Any other help would be appreciated.

Thanks

dkostan111 · 01-01-2004, 05:38 PM

Hi all. I looked around the web, asked around in this forum, and no one had or was willing to give me a 57H image so I could upgrade my 810. It was actually suggested that I just buy the 57H! So I went on my own and managed to do it with the existing tools (MFSTools 2.0). I now have 293 hours of storage on my 810H (with my new 250 Gb hard drive). I would be glad to share extactly what I did with ANYONE that asks (although I did not feel this way at first).

Cheers.

cap · 01-01-2004, 05:49 PM

I'm curious how you did it.
Although I was able to find a 57 image.

DCIFRTHS · 01-01-2004, 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dkostan111
Hi all. I looked around the web, asked around in this forum, and no one had or was willing to give me a 57H image so I could upgrade my 810. It was actually suggested that I just buy the 57H! So I went on my own and managed to do it with the existing tools (MFSTools 2.0). I now have 293 hours of storage on my 810H (with my new 250 Gb hard drive). I would be glad to share extactly what I did with ANYONE that asks (although I did not feel this way at first).

Cheers.

I'm very curious. Please tell.

tivoupgrade · 01-01-2004, 11:03 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by DCIFRTHS
I'm very curious. Please tell.

There is no mystery here - just use a boot CD with LBA48 support and MFSTOOLS 2 works absolutely fine.

weaknees · 01-01-2004, 11:07 PM

If you attempt to use mfsadd (or restore with -x) with a Pioneer 810H image, mfstool will report that the extra space has been used. But the TiVo won't recognize it - it'll think that you still have between 80 and 90 hours. Maybe that's what's going on here?

dkostan111 -

Have you verified the increased capacity in your System Information screen?

Michael

DCIFRTHS · 01-01-2004, 11:18 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by cap
I'm curious how you did it.
Although I was able to find a 57 image.

Did you guys add a large swap file? If so, how? Any information would be appreciated.

dkostan111 · 01-01-2004, 11:33 PM

Okay. I tried to make post but it was just rejected becuse I put in a URL to the boot disk. I dont know why it worked since I dont know why it did not work before. Here is what I used:

from exisitng rev

5.2.1-01-2-275
DVD FW rev 1.31
THis was updated from the original out of box 810H SW code rev after forcing 2 call ins after getting a lifetime subscription.

To create backup:

mfsbackup -f 9999 -6so /mnt/dos/ptivo.bak /dev/hdc

To restore:

restore -x -s 400 -zpi /mnt/dos/ptivo.bak /dev/hdc

I made the swap size 400 Mbytes for no good reason except that I know it should be ~300 or larger.

Also the system information spreen verified the 293 Hours at lowest quality and 50 at extreme fine.

Cheers.

dkostan111 · 01-01-2004, 11:42 PM

Yes I know how to spell...

I also wanted to add that I used the boot disk with LBA (11.5M) from the Hinsdale How-to upgrade page. My thanks goes out to the authors. I would post the link but that's what got my previous post rejected.

Cheers.

dkostan111 · 01-01-2004, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tivoupgrade
There is no mystery here - just use a boot CD with LBA48 support and MFSTOOLS 2 works absolutely fine.

Okay that's fine. But why didn't you tell everyone this before since the thread started out with the statement that the 57H image was required to upgrade the 810?

DCIFRTHS · 01-01-2004, 11:54 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dkostan111
...I made the swap size 400 Mbytes for no good reason except that I know it should be ~300 or larger....

Have you confirmed that the swap is actually there and working? I have been reading that using the MFS Tools disk does not successfully create swaps larger than 127 MB.

Thanks.

dkostan111 · 01-02-2004, 12:01 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by DCIFRTHS
Have you confirmed that the swap is actually there and working? I have been reading that using the MFS Tools disk does not successfully create swaps larger than 127 MB.

Thanks.

To tell you the truth I never confirmed it before putting the new upgraded drive back in the 810 unit. I suppose I could pull it back out tomorrow and have a look (I don't have another spare drive to try this out on). When will this become apparent if the swap size is too small?

Cheers.

tivoupgrade · 01-02-2004, 12:02 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dkostan111
Okay that's fine. But why didn't you tell everyone this before since the thread started out with the statement that the 57H image was required to upgrade the 810?

From your original post it appeared that you had, in fact, used a 57H image. It looked like the 'mystery' was related to the use of mfstools, and not that you'd actually succeeded with an 810 image...

DCIFRTHS · 01-02-2004, 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by dkostan111
To tell you the truth I never confirmed it before putting the new upgraded drive back in the 810 unit. I suppose I could pull it back out tomorrow and have a look (I don't have another spare drive to try this out on). When will this become apparent if the swap size is too small?

Cheers.

I'm not an expert on this, but I believe you need to get a prompt, and the easiest way to verify a correctly initialized swap is to look at the logs. Maybe Robert, Weaknees or Lou, can post the information or point you to a post.

In the spirirt of this forum, I'm hoping that someone will post a way to get to get the swap working correctly on the Pioneers with large drives.

weaknees · 01-02-2004, 08:19 AM

Interesting development dkostan111; thanks for sharing. We had not tried to backup/restore using the new software version (which was to improve some reported video issues). Hopefully we'll have time today to play with the test machine for a bit.

generaltso · 01-02-2004, 07:23 PM

I tried to put my original 810H image onto a 160GB drive using the process descriped by dkostan111, but it doesn't seem to have worked. Like weaknees described, mfstools reported that the image was expanded, but the TiVo only recognized 82 hours. I'm not sure why it worked for dkostan111 but it didn't work for me (the software revisions are the same).

I'm currently using a 300GB drive that was created with a 57H image thanks to PTVupgrade. But I haven't been able to successfully burn a DVD with this image, which is why I'm interested in replacing the 57H image with an 810H image if it's really possible.

Has anyone else tried this yet?

dkostan111 · 01-02-2004, 09:37 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by generaltso
I tried to put my original 810H image onto a 160GB drive using the process descriped by dkostan111, but it doesn't seem to have worked. Like weaknees described, mfstools reported that the image was expanded, but the TiVo only recognized 82 hours. I'm not sure why it worked for dkostan111 but it didn't work for me (the software revisions are the same).

I'm currently using a 300GB drive that was created with a 57H image thanks to PTVupgrade. But I haven't been able to successfully burn a DVD with this image, which is why I'm interested in replacing the 57H image with an 810H image if it's really possible.

Has anyone else tried this yet?

Possibly of interest is that the drive was the same manufacturer and family as the drive in the 810 except larger (maxtor diamond max Plus Kit L01P250) . I used a 250 Gbyte drive and the expanded drive was out of the box new, never had anything installed on it before the image transfer. Same goes for the TIVO drive, I did not use it before I made my image, except that I forced two call ins to get the latest code from the TIVO service. It works great and reports 293 hours, burns DVD, everything.

Not sure if the HD being completely new/empty made a difference or not really using the TIVO before hand made a difference.

The best experiment would be for someone to use the 810H image I created on the exact same new HD drive and then on a different one to see if it makes a difference.

The image is ~800 Mbytes. Any takers for this experiment?

tangent1138 · 01-02-2004, 09:47 PM

i have a brand new, never been touched 120gb Maxtor that I can throw your image on, see if it works.

dkostan111 · 01-02-2004, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by tangent1138
i have a brand new, never been touched 120gb Maxtor that I can throw your image on, see if it works.

Please PM me if there are other takers for this experiment.

dkostan111 · 01-02-2004, 10:08 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by dkostan111
Please PM me if there are other takers for this experiment.

On second thought please dont PM me (except for tangent1138) since this could get out of control quickly. tangent1138 please PM me and we can figure out how to set up this experiment. Thanks.

dkostan111 · 01-03-2004, 02:09 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by generaltso
I tried to put my original 810H image onto a 160GB drive using the process descriped by dkostan111, but it doesn't seem to have worked. Like weaknees described, mfstools reported that the image was expanded, but the TiVo only recognized 82 hours. I'm not sure why it worked for dkostan111 but it didn't work for me (the software revisions are the same).

I'm currently using a 300GB drive that was created with a 57H image thanks to PTVupgrade. But I haven't been able to successfully burn a DVD with this image, which is why I'm interested in replacing the 57H image with an 810H image if it's really possible.

Has anyone else tried this yet?

Also one thing I forgot to mention because I did/do not think it made a difference but I'm bringing it up now since I wanted to thorough. After restoring the image to the larger drive I hit ctrl-c and then re-booted with the boot-CD and started to run the copykern(?) script command. I made it all the way to the last set of menus that asked to pick which LBA kern to use but it just listed a number of series 1 tivos. I hit ctrl-C at this point and shutdown without picking any of the selections, removed the drive and installed it in the 810.

I dont think the above made a difference but like I said, I am including it to be thorough. I will be working with someone over the next 1.5 weeks to try out my 810 image on some virgin drives like the one I used for my upgrade drive. Hopefully we will find a way to repeat my past success. Hang in there.

Cheers.

generaltso · 01-03-2004, 12:09 PM

Thanks for the work dkostan111. If you need somebody else to help in testing, I've got a Maxtor 160GB drive free to play with.