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Old 10-24-2003, 04:32 AM   #301
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That's a nice idea, but since I don't really want to regularly program my Tivo via Tivoweb (because I prefer the more convenient method of using my TV), it wouldn't be the best solution for me.

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Old 10-24-2003, 04:34 AM   #302
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Originally posted by iankb
That's a nice idea, but since I don't really want to regularly program my Tivo via Tivoweb (because I prefer the more convenient method of using my TV), it wouldn't be the best solution for me.

Ian.
As you know, the 2.5.5 UI won't take negative numbers, so it's hacking or nothing on that score!
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Old 10-24-2003, 04:51 AM   #303
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I suppose I was thinking that, as an option, endpad could automatically add negative start padding for me to the next program as an alternative to removing the end padding of the previous program.

Not quite sure how it works at the moment, since I got bored re-reading this ever-growing thread.

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Old 10-24-2003, 04:53 AM   #304
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That's one of the options under consideration.
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Old 10-24-2003, 04:57 AM   #305
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I'm sure that's how my VCR works, but I use it so rarely, I would have to get the manual out. In practice, it would only work well if you could set a different option for each channel.

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Old 10-24-2003, 05:17 AM   #306
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Stuart - could you just outline your thoughts on how forced end padding would work because it could work in a number of quite different ways? e.g.

1. A global setting where any follow on recordings are started late.

2. An SP or channel based setting where only those recordings are 'allowed' to force their end padding.

3. An SP or channel based setting that allows those recordings to have their start times delayed.

4. If the priority of the SP was to be taken into account, this could be done in a couple of different ways:

a. A higher priority programme always causes a lower priority programme to start late.

b. Any programme that is allowed to force it's end padding cannot have its' own start time delayed.

I expect some of the above are either impossible or too complex to achieve anyway. I'm interested in your thoughts.

Last edited by Fozzie : 10-24-2003 at 05:24 AM.
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Old 10-24-2003, 06:35 AM   #307
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I was going to do 1), as it's relatively easy. Then 2) if/when SP specific settings are possible.

However don't expect either very soon, as children's birthday parties are eating in to coding time at the moment.
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Old 10-24-2003, 10:18 AM   #308
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Quote:
Originally posted by iankb
I think that my main reason for (3) being a higher priority is that everything else can be handled manually, and I am already working that way by adjusting my schedules every morning.
How would you suggest handling option 2 (adjusting pad values on a per-channel or per-show basis) manually? The only way I can think of would be to constantly monitor the TiVo, stopping and re-starting endpad for individual shows. If that's the solution, it'd be simpler to just abandon endpad and do the job manually from the TiVo user interface.

Quote:
What the UK version of the software can't do (and I believe that the US software can) is negative padding.
I don't believe the US software can do this. Certainly I've not seen it on any version I've used (through 3.something on my SA TiVo before I sold it). It's conceivable it's a new feature in the 4.0 software, but I've not seen that version, and I don't recall hearing about this feature in it.
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Old 10-24-2003, 10:23 AM   #309
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Quote:
Originally posted by srs5694
How would you suggest handling option 2 (adjusting pad values on a per-channel or per-show basis) manually? The only way I can think of would be to constantly monitor the TiVo, stopping and re-starting endpad for individual shows. If that's the solution, it'd be simpler to just abandon endpad and do the job manually from the TiVo user interface.
There would be a default as at present and a config file containing a list of season passes or channels with each one's individual settings. If no setting is in the file then use the default. Settings file created either manually or via a TiVioWeb module.


Quote:
Originally posted by srs5694

I don't believe the US software can do this. Certainly I've not seen it on any version I've used (through 3.something on my SA TiVo before I sold it). It's conceivable it's a new feature in the 4.0 software, but I've not seen that version, and I don't recall hearing about this feature in it.
There is a simple hack to add "start late" amounts to the padding menu by altering a string value in the database, have a search in the Underground. Unfortunately it doesn't work on UK TiVos.
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Old 10-24-2003, 10:36 AM   #310
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Originally posted by sanderton
If no setting is in the file then use the default. Settings file created either manually or via a TiVioWeb module.
Of course, the options are not mutually incompatible. Would make sense to create the file manually at first but in a simple format so that it can later be managed by a TiVo Web module.
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Old 10-24-2003, 10:42 AM   #311
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A SP based one would be harder to do manually as the obvious way to do the file would be to create it based on fsids of the season passes - not frantically human readable/createable though!
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Old 10-24-2003, 10:45 AM   #312
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It has to be fsid-based, but people could add in a human-readable name as a comment. It is true people would need to get the series IDs in the first place.
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Old 10-24-2003, 10:55 AM   #313
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Quote:
Originally posted by sanderton
I was going to do 1), as it's relatively easy. Then 2) if/when SP specific settings are possible.
Presumeably with 2), those SPs that are allowed to force end padding, would cause a start delay to any follow on recordings (including SPs that themselves are allowed to force end padding).

So with option 1) (global setting), all follow on recordings would be started late and with option 2) all recordings following an 'allow programme to force end padding' would be started late.

Nope, I don't see the benefit of 1) at all I can see a possible benefit of 2) (on a per SP basis not channel basis), if the number of SPs that were allowed to force end padding was very small.
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Old 10-24-2003, 10:59 AM   #314
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Just depends on how much getting the bong just before the denouement bothers you!

Forced end padding would also cure something I've done more than once - recorded back to back shows on BBC 2 where the end of one is on the start of the next thanks to late running, but watched them in the "wrong" order and deleted the show with ethe end of the previous one before watching it! With forced end padding the end would be in the correct show.
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Old 10-24-2003, 11:33 AM   #315
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Quote:
Originally posted by srs5694
How would you suggest handling option 2 (adjusting pad values on a per-channel or per-show basis) manually?
That's easy. Every morning I make sure that the correct programs are going to be recorded in my TDL and manually adjust any padding on each recording if I would otherwise have an overlap. It's incredibly easy, apart from the inability to enter negative padding which stops me entering padding on consecutive programs.

Maybe you are getting confused because, once you start running endpad, you are losing some of that manual control.

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Old 10-24-2003, 11:36 AM   #316
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I think its more the idea of manually looking at the TDL every morning that is confusing him. It certainly confuses me.

For me, it's the fire-and-forget nature of TiVo which makes it so compelling over Sky+ etc.

(You don't lose any manual control with Endpad - if you set padding manually it will not remove it)

Last edited by sanderton : 10-24-2003 at 11:40 AM.
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Old 10-24-2003, 11:56 AM   #317
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For me, it's the fire-and-forget nature of TiVo which makes it so compelling over Sky+ etc.
It's a nice idea, but I would miss new series, one-off programs, and anything that clashed. By checking each morning, I also get the chance to reconcile clashes more neatly by rescheduling recordings selectively, based upon future showings. The TiVo will never managed to get the priorities right in all cases, however careful you are to set it up.

Maybe it's because I don't fill up my TiVo with disposable programs such as Friends and other sitcoms, where it doesn't really matter whether you watch it or not, or in which order you watch them. There would be nothing worse than missing one episode out of a series such as '24', because of incorrectly-handled clashes.

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Old 10-24-2003, 12:03 PM   #318
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Every Sunday morning I sit down with the TV guide from the paper and TiVoWeb to schedule new series and one offs. I run the Conflict Resolver module which highlights any unresolved clashes in the week ahead and use the second TiVo to sort them out (or do it manually if needed). I then run my CBEEBIES deduper to stop us getting 25 episodes of Clifford the Big Red Dog, and manually deselect the four weekly duplicates of The Rugby Club which I've given up reporting on the errors thread after two years of being wrong every week.

Takes 15 mins tops once a week and I can then let TiVo get on with it until the following Sunday.
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Old 10-24-2003, 12:16 PM   #319
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So you do it once a week, and I do it daily. Not that different.

It takes me longer because, with only one TiVo, I find it much harder to manage clashes. A lot of attempts at rescheduling based upon other broadcasts and much breast-beating as I have to discard recordings.

I definitely need that extra Sky+ box with dual-recording to handle clashes.

Ian.
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Old 10-24-2003, 12:17 PM   #320
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Be nice to me. New forum user but not new tivo-er.

Sanderton, is it possible to submit your modification (script?) to Tivo UK and they distribute it as a software patch? I don't know if this is a ridiculous suggestion or not.
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Old 10-24-2003, 12:30 PM   #321
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Excuse my ignorance, but do TiVo use TCL for routine processing, or do they use compiled languages?

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Old 10-24-2003, 12:37 PM   #322
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It would be cool if they did. Perhaps the popular scripts could be submitted to Tivo UK, and if approved, downloaded as patches that could be started via a backdoor code perhaps.
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Old 10-24-2003, 12:40 PM   #323
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Now you are showing your ignorance.

TiVo UK was closed down quite a while ago. It is all run from the US nowadays. Customer Services in the UK are run by Sky on TiVo's behalf.

Ian.
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Old 10-24-2003, 12:48 PM   #324
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Red face

Oops
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Old 10-24-2003, 01:41 PM   #325
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Quote:
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Excuse my ignorance, but do TiVo use TCL for routine processing, or do they use compiled languages?

Ian.
Bit of both I think. The heavy duty stuff is compiled into the TCL interpreter as built-in commands, and TCL scripts handle some of the things you need to tweak more easily and quickly than recompiling allows. "myworld", the main TiVo command process, is in fact a TCL interpreter,
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Old 10-24-2003, 01:45 PM   #326
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Quote:
Originally posted by sanderton
Forced end padding would also cure something I've done more than once - recorded back to back shows on BBC 2 where the end of one is on the start of the next thanks to late running, but watched them in the "wrong" order and deleted the show with ethe end of the previous one before watching it! With forced end padding the end would be in the correct show.
Understood & it would be very useful in that situation to overcome poor watching discipline (of course I've never done that!) But would you really want to force all back to back recordings to have the second recording start late for the pretty rare (I would have thought) situation that a)there is a back to back recording in the first place & b) the recordings are on the same channel & c)the first programme really is running late and actually needs the padding in the first place?

It just seems to me that the negatives far outweigh the positives. All hail 1.2.5 - hurrah
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Old 10-24-2003, 01:54 PM   #327
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Can this hack be installed with just a serial cable and the BASH prompt with no need to open the TiVo? No other hacks or extras have been installed. TIA.
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Old 10-24-2003, 01:58 PM   #328
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As I understand it. You need to put your hard disk in a PC to run some software that allows you to be able to get a bash prompt via serial cable. Then you put the hard disk back in, connect your serial cable, and then you can get a bash prompt and can transfer the script and run it. I've not done it myself yet. I don't have a PC running anything older than win2k and I'm scared of this qunlock thing that can render a disk almost useless.

edit: Additional question:

Can you run TiVoweb over the serial cable or does it need a LAN card?
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Old 10-24-2003, 02:13 PM   #329
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I've got both tivoweb and end pad running over a serial cable to a Win XP machine and it works fine. In theory there isn't anything you can do over a proper network connection that you can't do by using a serial cable, it's just that bit slower

The best places to start looking are the Black Widow guide and this thread

edit: now link points to the correct thread
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Old 10-24-2003, 02:42 PM   #330
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Quote:
Originally posted by pahunt
In theory there isn't anything you can do over a proper network connection that you can't do by using a serial cable, it's just that bit slower
Broadcasting and multicasting? I have, in fact, given some thought on how to integrate endpad.tcl into a collaborative scheduling algorithm whereby each TiVo would try to farm out conflicts to other TiVos using multicasting or broadcasting in part for communication. (But since multicasting and broadcasting are unreliable and most people don't have giant numbers of TiVos, I think both are not the right choice for this purpose other than an auto-discovery component, which HMO already does.)
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