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Old 05-14-2004, 02:10 AM   #1
jar_uk1
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universal remote control

After a couple of weeks trying to figure out remote controls I think I have narrowed it down.

I ruled out Prontos, Ipaqs with griffin ir extenders (same with palms) and OFA Kameleons, either due to expense, "fiddlyness" or lack of the number of units they can control.

I think it is going to have to be an MX500 or an OFA Mosaic (but the mosaic is a horrible silver...)

so it looks like an MX-500.

If anyone uses the MX-500, is it sny good, can I give the LCD Device labels a name (Like Tivo!) and does it work with Tivos correctly?

Also can i get it in the uk anywhere other than fpsgamer, I dont like buying from a place where I cannot find a phone no on the website (at all)

Other than that, does anyone have any alternative ideas. In an ideal world it would be able to control a tivo/digibox/tv/av amp/dvd/Laserdisc player (The young uns won't remember those!)/x-box/md player.

John R
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Old 05-14-2004, 02:42 AM   #2
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i bought the MX1000 from fpsgamer - i found a number somewhere - good service.

the 1000 is a less populated button version (similar size) with a nicer joystick control (it has:- main menu button, page, power, vol up/down, channel up/down, mute pre-ch (used as my TiVo button) play, ff, rw, stop (pause on tivo) joystick with select (push in))

fully programmable like the pronto ( i have a pronto as wll, consigned to the cupboard) with logos etc etc. not quite as easy as the pronto though...
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Old 05-14-2004, 03:07 AM   #3
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I have an MX-500, and find it excellent. Much better than my more expensive and now discarded Pronto. It will learn everything, including the TiVo standby button, for which you will need to browse this forum for the trick. No problem with programming the LCD labels, although the mobile 'phone style of entering text can be a bit laborious. You will find the 5-way joystick a little odd at first, but will soon get use to it. Unlike the Pronto, it uses hard buttons for everything, and can be used by feel - just like a peanut.

I bought it from FPSGamer and, unfortunately, after a couple of days the screen failed. Not only did I get profuse apologies and an immediate replacement, but I also got my postage refunded without asking. While you can buy it direct from the States, I do wonder how easy it would have been to get a replacement - with my costs refunded.

In case you're wondering why learning the standby button is a problem, it is because the peanut will send out two codes, once you have programmed it to control your TV. You have to clear the extra code before you can capture the output.
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Old 05-14-2004, 03:48 AM   #4
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Does anyone with an LCD-based remote have any comments on how they get by with hacing no tactile feedback. I usually use my remote without looking at it just by feeling my way around the buttons, and wondered if this would be possible with an LCD-based remote by learning where the virtual buttons are.

Dave.
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Old 05-14-2004, 04:07 AM   #5
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Thumbs up for the MX500 from me too. I bought it from FPSGamer without problems - arrived next day.

Agree with everythink iankb says and I used his little trick to program standby without problems.
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Old 05-14-2004, 04:43 AM   #6
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I have both the MX500 and the MX700, the 700 is programmable like a Pronto.

They are my 2 favourite remotes.

However, though I love the original TiVo peanuts, I have too many TiVos and gear!
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Old 05-14-2004, 04:46 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by davedixson
Does anyone with an LCD-based remote have any comments on how they get by with hacing no tactile feedback. I usually use my remote without looking at it just by feeling my way around the buttons, and wondered if this would be possible with an LCD-based remote by learning where the virtual buttons are.
I found my Pronto totally unusable because of the lack of tactile feedback. Even worse, if you have to put on reading glasses to see the display, and find out which sub-screen you are on.

The MX-500 has LCD labels on some of its keys, but it uses a hard button for each label.
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Old 05-14-2004, 04:47 AM   #8
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The new Harmony 688 remote has been designed with TiVo in mind. Simple setup from their web site and a dream to use. Cost about £98 and available on ebay. Web site is http://www.harmonyremote.com/ .
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Old 05-14-2004, 05:05 AM   #9
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The Harmony looks nice, but I'm not convinced that the buttons will be that easy to locate by feel. They look a bit 'edgeless'.
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Old 05-14-2004, 05:28 AM   #10
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Then try the 768 or 748 but they do cost more.
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Old 05-14-2004, 06:47 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by davedixson
Does anyone with an LCD-based remote have any comments on how they get by with hacing no tactile feedback. I usually use my remote without looking at it just by feeling my way around the buttons, and wondered if this would be possible with an LCD-based remote by learning where the virtual buttons are.

Dave.
The pronto has a few programmable 'real' buttons but most of the time I use the LCD buttons. My pronto has about 11 different remotes programmed into it plus a number of 'combined remotes' (useful when transferring programmes between devices eg: tivo to VCR) and yes, I have to look at the screen to use it. However, when i pick up the original remotes and try to use them, I still have to look at them because I haven't memorised all the button positions on all the remotes. When programming the pronto, I make all the remotes' key layouts similar so common functions are in the same place across devices (bit like a OFA) which means I know where to look. There are parts of the LCD screen which are easy to learn (usually near the real buttons) and you can put commonly used LCD buttons there. In all, I dont find using LCD buttons that much of a problem. It is more of a problem memorising lots of different remotes. Saying that, there is a new pronto which has a few more real buttons (like a cursor pad). Also, my pronto has been designed by me for use by me and is a real pain for anyone else to use
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Old 05-14-2004, 07:03 AM   #12
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Then try the 768 or 748 but they do cost more.
Those don't have enough buttons to cover both cursor and transport buttons at the same time. However, the cheaper H659 seems to have all the necessary buttons, and they're tactile as well.

Unfortunately, nobody is selling them in the UK, including eBay at the moment.
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Old 05-14-2004, 07:18 AM   #13
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The one benefit of the MX-500/700, and quite a few alternatives nowadays, is that they do tend to include similar button shapes and layouts to those used on the peanut. e.g. A number pad, a channel selection cluster, a transport cluster, a menu selection cluster, an audio cluster, etc. It isn't that hard to set them up so that the buttons are easily memorised.

My objection to my Pronto was that there is absolutely no meaningful and memorable layout that you could associate with it. Also, because you couldn't get many usable 'buttons' on the same screen, you had to keep swapping screens, with the chances that you accidentally use the wrong one. However, I only had a monochrome Pronto, with a very poor quality and unreadable screen, and I expect that the colour versions are easier to use.
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Old 05-14-2004, 10:04 AM   #14
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H659 on ebay at the moment http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...096416162&rd=1

One UK supplier of Harmony is Chantry Audio www.chantryaudio.com although they do not have the H688 in stock as yet.
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Old 05-14-2004, 10:41 AM   #15
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And another 39 H659's at a Buy-it-now price of £65

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.d...096219519&rd=1
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Old 05-14-2004, 11:42 AM   #16
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Another vote here for the MX-700. Very flexible amd programmable. Replaced 15 other remotes with no effort at all!

The MX-800 version uses RF as well as IR, so you can control things from outside the line of sight.
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Old 05-14-2004, 02:08 PM   #17
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Thanks for all the replies, I hadn't considered the Harmony, but I think I might go for it. Maybe I should toss a coin between it and the mx500.

The other half nearly vetoed ALL of the universal remotes as she doesnt like the look of them :-)

John R
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Old 05-14-2004, 02:45 PM   #18
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Since the eBay sales above for the Harmony are from the States or Canada, don't forget the shipping fees. I notice that the last one charges $35 for shipping and $2 for creditcard handling. When you add the potential of attracting import duty, VAT and a collection charge, the MX-500 from FPS-Gamer could well be cheaper.
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Old 05-16-2004, 06:31 PM   #19
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MX-500 definitely
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Old 05-17-2004, 12:42 AM   #20
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Indeed - another MX-500 user here - I bought mine from the states originally - luckilly I have no problems with the unit so no need to return it. Current price $99 but you must factor in the cost of shipping and a possible hit on customs charges too (I was lucky )

As for the display... heres my main readout:


And when I press the Tivo button...
...
The ToDo, search, SPM, Manual and Plyng are fast buttons to Todo, search page, Season pass, manual record and Now Playing - if I'm on the main Tivo menu screen, pressing one of these will go straight to that page. The WIDE is a controller for the Sony TV to adjust ratio aspects.
I programmed the Prev Ch button to act as the Tivo button too - since I don't have 5 inch long thumbs

There's also a second page for less used buttons, you get there by pressing the PAGE button...

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Old 05-18-2004, 03:37 PM   #21
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I got mine from http://www.fpsgamer.co.uk/hcinema/remotes.htm which seems to be a highly recommended UK supplier for these.
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Old 06-25-2004, 04:10 AM   #22
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Has anyone actually had their hands on a Harmony 688 or 659 yet, and feel able to comment on how well it works with TIVO?

I have the MX-500 (which is excellent), but now have a 2nd TIVO (in a different room) and am wondering whether to go for another MX-500 or whether the Harmony is worth the extra money.

Alternatively, a Phillips SBC RU865 (much cheaper) was mentioned in another thread. Has anyone tried that with TIVO?

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Old 06-26-2004, 02:01 AM   #23
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I actually ordered a 688 direct.

I phoned Harmony in Canada and placed the order) but it didnt arrive so I emailed them and found out someone had shipped it "surface" rather than courier. (They are refunding the $40 delivery charge).

I think a couple of others here have them, but when it does arrive I will post a review if anyone is interested.

Interestingly Harmony are now part of Logitech, so who knows, we might see Logitech branded Harmony remotes soon... (hopefully they will be priced more realistically than some uk importers try to charge).

still waiting for the slow boat from Canada, shouldn't be too long now :-) It also cost me no more than getting it from Ebay, so i thought it would be better, as Harmony do not honour warranty on "non approved retailer" sales.

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Old 06-26-2004, 06:20 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally posted by aitcheff


Alternatively, a Phillips SBC RU865 (much cheaper) was mentioned in another thread. Has anyone tried that with TIVO?

I've been using the Philips for a week now. There's no pre-set TiVo code, but once you've spent the time teaching it from the peanut, it works very well.

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Old 07-21-2004, 10:13 AM   #25
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John R

Have you got your Harmony remote? Is it a success?

I've been considering buying something of this sort for a while, but I'm off to Canada on holiday in a few weeks, and I'll look out for any bargains, whether they are Harmony or OneForAll or whatever.

Thanks

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Old 08-16-2004, 10:41 AM   #26
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Harmony H659

I've now bought a Harmony H659 for my 2nd TIVO and here is quick summary of my experience.

Bought from BlueDo.Com. Arrived very quickly, but the LCD screen was faulty. BlueDo told me I had to deal directly with Harmony. No problem with Harmony. I had to provide evidence that I had bought from an 'approved' Harmony reseller, but once I'd done that they issued an RMA number and I was able to order a replacement. I had to pay the postage to return the faulty unit and Harmony took about 10 days to ship me a replacement which works fiine so far.

The remote is very easy to configure via a web interface. All my devices were recognised, but I had to 'learn' the additional TIVO IR commands which are specific to UK TIVOs. Also, although the IR code for powering on my Panasonic TV was correct, it was not held long enough to actually successfully turn on the TV. However, Harmony support are very responsive, and they customised my config with an additional parameter which allowed me to adjust how long the command is 'held'. I also subsequently found that I could learn the command in 'RAW' mode which remembered how long the command needed to be held.

The remote is programmed in terms of activities. e.g. 'watch TIVO', 'watch a DVD', etc. When an activity is selected, all the required devices are turned on and put in the correct state for whichever activity is selected. E.G. 'Watch Tivo' turns on the TV, takes the TIVO out of standby and then switches the TV to AV input. (I set mine up so that the Freeview box is always on.) The remote then maintains a record of the current state of all devices, so that if 'Watch DVD' is then selected', it knows that the TV is already on and switches on only the DVD. When 'Off' is then pressed, it will turn off all the devices it 'knows' are on.

If it gets out of Synch, pressing help asks a series of questions which puts everything back in synch.

Where the concept falls down is where (as in my case) there is not a single IR command which puts a device into a known state. e.g. On my TV, there is no way to turn the TV on and switch to AV2 for certain - its state depends on the which AV channel was last set when the TV was switched off and the IR commands move up or down the list of valid AV settings - not directly to a particular one. Fortunately, the remote does also allow you to issue appropriate IR commands to rectify the situation, but it does spoil the elegance of the activity concept. Having said that, I haven't raised this isue with Harmony support - they may have a clever workaround.

What I really don't like is the position and 'feel' of the keys. The keys are small and 'spongey'. Also, the transport keys are right at the bottom of the remote where they are not so easy to use in one hand. The MX500 keys and layout are far superior. On the other hand, the shape of the remote is very 'peanut -like' and it feels comfortable to hold.

So in summary:-

Pros:-
- Ease of setup
- Harmony support responsiveness
- Activity approach is innovative and makes it easy to use, but need the right equipment for it to work prefectly

Cons:-
Key layout and feel vastly inferior to MX500


For me, the negative of the keyboard vastly outweighs the positives and I am seriously thinking of ebaying the remote and going for a 2nd MX500.

Anyway, hope this helps anyone contemplating a Harmony remote.


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Old 08-17-2004, 03:57 AM   #27
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Re: Harmony H659

Quote:
Originally posted by aitcheff

Where the concept falls down is where (as in my case) there is not a single IR command which puts a device into a known state. e.g. On my TV, there is no way to turn the TV on and switch to AV2 for certain - its state depends on the which AV channel was last set when the TV was switched off and the IR commands move up or down the list of valid AV settings - not directly to a particular one.
This may or may not help, but here is a bit of lateral thinking that works - at least in my case. It should work for all "macros " on any flavour of remote - MXs prontos harmonys and so on

My TV has 3 AV inputs, but they are a cyclical toggle, rather than distinct codes - ie I have to press the AV button 3 times to get AV3 - but only if it is in TV mode. If it is already on AV1, then I (or the automated remote control function) need to press it only twice.

What always works though, is that if I first select channel 1 (for example), I am always able to determine the correct number of keypresses required. In this scenario, changing to Ch1, puts my TV in TV mode, so I then need to issue 3 AV keypresses to get to AV3.

Hope that that:

a) makes sense
b) helps someone!
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Old 08-17-2004, 04:10 AM   #28
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Re: Re: Harmony H659

Quote:
Originally posted by iancdbutcher
What always works though, is that if I first select channel 1 (for example), I am always able to determine the correct number of keypresses required. In this scenario, changing to Ch1, puts my TV in TV mode, so I then need to issue 3 AV keypresses to get to AV3.
I'll have a look when I get home tonight, but I don't think that this will work for my TV. I think that with my Panasonic, no matter how many times I switch to TV mode, it 'remembers' the last AV channel it was set to, so there seems to be no way to reset to a specific AV channel. But I'll check ....
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Old 08-17-2004, 04:30 AM   #29
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Re: Re: Re: Harmony H659

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Originally posted by aitcheff
it 'remembers' the last AV channel it was set to
Oh dear

So how do you change the AV channel then?

I'm guessing that pressing AV goes to last AV channel, pressing it again increments by one and then loops to the beginning?

Then do you have a separate button (mine is the same button) to go back to TV?
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Old 08-17-2004, 07:11 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally posted by iancdbutcher

So how do you change the AV channel then?
Pressing the 'A/V' button toggles between TV and AV. So if I am on AV2, pressing
'A/V' goes to TV, then pressing it again goes back to AV2 and so on. To change the AV channel, I need to then press 'down-menu', or 'up-menu' within about 3 seconds of pressing the 'A/V' button, which would move down or up the list of AV channels.
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