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Old 12-29-2014, 04:03 PM   #1
cpace
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Error 51

I would like to confirm that once you have an error #51 there is no other option but clear and delete everything or 51killer if the box is already modded.

C&DE - all recordings lost but unit will work again

51killer - recordings will work if previously modded


My kids said their Tivo didn't work so trying to solve the problem with a quick 10 minute swap, I took the drive from their S3 OLED tivo and transferred it to another S3 OLED tivo before backing up or looking online to see if there would be a problem.

After getting the error 51 on the drive with their shows, replacing it in the original has resulted in the same error 51. I don't recall if I modded either unit although I think both drives were upgraded previously.

What is the easiest way to see if the unit was modded so 51killer can save the recordings?

Can the recordings be saved externally and replaced after the C&DE? (I think I already know the answer but figured I'd ask)

Is there any known way to see the recordings again on the original box if it was not modded?

I don't see any newer similar threads on a search, the last few are several years old now.

Thanks!

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Old 12-29-2014, 04:12 PM   #2
cpace
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The issue from a post from mr.unnatural:

Here's an excellent explanation of what the error #51 is all about. Credit goes to AlphaWolf from DDB. I would have posted the link but the forum software blocks links to the "other" forum.

Quote:
But that aside, heres the most accurate description of what is going on with the error #51 message. When your tivo first boots any hard disk that is in a virgin state (e.g. the tivo OS is loaded to the hard disk but it has never been booted before) what it does is generate a hash key that is seeded based on the serial number of your tivo and some random number, then it stores this information into the MFS database as a value labeled "DiskConfiguration" effectively marking that hard disk to be used in that *specific* tivo.

This key is used as part of the encrypt/decrypt process of your tivo whenever it records any video, and it effectively ties those video streams to your tivos mediaswitch asic so that theoretically you can't arbitrarily give your friends a copy of your recordings (note I say theoretically because we have long since defeated this measure.)

Now, when you take this hard drive and move it to a tivo with a different serial number (and thus presumably a different mediaswitch asic with different private keys,) the tivo will boot up and read the diskconfiguration key, and it will notice that the serial number seeded into that key doesn't match the serial number of the current tivo. Thus it bombs out and assumes that all of the videos currently stored on that hard disk wont be able to decrypt properly, thus it wont allow you to play any streams, and it also assumes that if it tries to record anything new, something else will go wrong as well.

Now that may or may not be the case, dependent on whether or not you recorded those shows unencrypted. Either way though it will turn your tivo into a doorstop, giving you that error #51 message until the situation is resolved. This is where 51killer.tcl comes in. What it does is simply erase the DiskConfiguration key from the MFS database. Thats it. It is really a very simple script. When you reboot your tivo, it'll notice that the diskconfiguration key is not there, so it will assume that the disk is in a virgin state (even though technically it isn't,) and it will then generate a new diskconfiguration key and then tie the hard disk to its current serial number, and all new CSO keys for the new recordings will be generated (or not, if you hacked tivoapp properly) based on that new key.

Note also that clear and delete everything does pretty much the same thing. C&DE clears out every value and every object that is not essential for the tivo to actually function - to include the diskconfiguration key. Thus when it reboots, you have the same effect, just like plainbill said. The whole purpose of 51killer.tcl is to be able to remove the error #51 message without being destructive to all of your recordings, settings, season passes, etc as opposed to what the C&DE does.

Now in your case, one of two things is going wrong here. Either you didn't actually do the C&DE (you probably selected the wrong option, it is the very bottom option that is specifically labeled "Clear and Delete Everything," as in it totally nukes all recordings, thumbs, season passes, etc.) or there is something wrong with your crypto chip (although this is quite doubtful.)
You will note that the discussion refers to a 51killer.tcl script. This can only be used on a hacked Tivo to clear the error message. Otherwise, you'll have to perform a Clear & Delete Everything to get rid of the error.

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Old 12-31-2014, 05:31 PM   #3
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Any takers for this question?

If I copy the files to another drive then do a clear and delete or 51killer and then copy the files back over, will they play?

Thanks

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Old 01-01-2015, 01:32 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpace View Post
Any takers for this question?

If I copy the files to another drive then do a clear and delete or 51killer and then copy the files back over, will they play?

Thanks
When you say "copy the files to another drive", do you mean the actual recorded shows?

Or the TiVo operating system software?

As far as I know, the only way to copy the actual shows as shows is to have the TiVo on which they were recorded working and copy them onto another TiVo on your account and network, or copy them to a PC via TiVo Desktop (or Desktop Plus) or one of the open source programs for doing the same thing.

Something I've never had the spare resources to prove or disprove, but perhaps if you have a drive with the same LBA number as the screwed up one, and set it up on the TiVo that the screwed up one came out of, and make sure every partition is the same size on the new drive as it is on the old one, and then copy via

dd

or one of its descendents, like

dd_rescue

or

ddrescue

the screwed up drives MFS partitions into the spaces where their counterparts are on the new drive, maybe the shows will be intact.

But I don't know enough about in which partition the TiVo keeps what to be absolutely sure about that one way or the other without a lot of experimentation.


Something you could try, and again this is "I'm not sure in which partition the TiVo keeps what" territory, hook the screwed up drive to a PC running XP SP3 or newer with WinMFS installed.

Use

mfsinfo

to find out if it's set to boot from partitions 2, 3, and 4 (which is the state that Fix Bootpage option 1 will put it into), or if it's set to boot from partitions 5, 6, and 7 (which is the state Fix Bootpage option 2 will put it into).

Whichever one it's set for, set it for the other one.

Maybe the old copy of the operating system still has the right TSN in it.

Of course if that's not where it keeps track of the TSN then it won't help, but at least we'll have learned something.

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Old 01-01-2015, 05:50 PM   #5
cpace
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Thank you, unitron. Sorry for the confusion. I want to recover the programs to view on the Tivo they were recorded on. The disk was transferred to another S3 generating the error 51. The error 51 remains after replacing in the original tivo and to my knowledge can only be cleared with 51killer or clear and delete everything.

I have the original S3 OLED disk, and it is has the recordings but error 51 when installed in the Tivo on which the recordings were made.

I now have a new disk with fresh image, disk not yet installed. When I install it, it will clear the error 51 and otherwise be a blank disk.

I would like to:
1. take the recordings from the original tivo disk and transfer them to the new disk.

Or

2. transfer the repaired tivo ID information from the new disk to the old one.

Either of the above would allow me to see the programs recorded on the box they were originally recorded, I hope.

If I could add my recordings to the disk image information to make a new drive wwith my old recordings that would be another alternative although I haven't come across a way to do any of the above.

I'll plan on making a copy of the error 51 drive and attempt to tinker with that drive in winMFS to see what I can do. Thanks again for the recommendations for things to try.

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Old 01-01-2015, 06:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpace View Post
Thank you, unitron. Sorry for the confusion. I want to recover the programs to view on the Tivo they were recorded on. The disk was transferred to another S3 generating the error 51. The error 51 remains after replacing in the original tivo and to my knowledge can only be cleared with 51killer or clear and delete everything.

I have the original S3 OLED disk, and it is has the recordings but error 51 when installed in the Tivo on which the recordings were made.

I now have a new disk with fresh image, disk not yet installed. When I install it, it will clear the error 51 and otherwise be a blank disk.

I would like to:
1. take the recordings from the original tivo disk and transfer them to the new disk.

Or

2. transfer the repaired tivo ID information from the new disk to the old one.

Either of the above would allow me to see the programs recorded on the box they were originally recorded, I hope.

If I could add my recordings to the disk image information to make a new drive wwith my old recordings that would be another alternative although I haven't come across a way to do any of the above.

I'll plan on making a copy of the error 51 drive and attempt to tinker with that drive in winMFS to see what I can do. Thanks again for the recommendations for things to try.
What size is the drive that got borked?

Is the new drive the same size, LBA number-wise?

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Old 01-02-2015, 09:21 AM   #7
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Unless that unit was already hacked with a new PROM and tivoapp was modified to disable encryption, I think your recordings are gone forever. It would be pretty hard to forget since it would have involved shipping it to someone at ddb or doing surface-mount soldering yourself. If you can telnet to that TiVo it was hacked.

If it wasn't hacked the recordings are encrypted, and the unique encryption key that was used is now long gone.

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Old 01-03-2015, 05:45 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
Unless that unit was already hacked with a new PROM and tivoapp was modified to disable encryption, I think your recordings are gone forever. It would be pretty hard to forget since it would have involved shipping it to someone at ddb or doing surface-mount soldering yourself. If you can telnet to that TiVo it was hacked.

If it wasn't hacked the recordings are encrypted, and the unique encryption key that was used is now long gone.
Once that encryption key was generated originally, do you know on which partition it was kept?

Do you know for certain anything else about exactly what the TiVo keeps exactly where, especially stuff unique to that particular unit, like your Zip Code, Season Passes, modem or network settings, et cetera?

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Old 01-04-2015, 08:45 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Once that encryption key was generated originally, do you know on which partition it was kept?

Do you know for certain anything else about exactly what the TiVo keeps exactly where, especially stuff unique to that particular unit, like your Zip Code, Season Passes, modem or network settings, et cetera?
The MFS application zones define areas of the overall MFS file system that are used as a proprietary directory structure. Scattererd throughout that directory structure are thousands of "tyDb" files that make up the overall database. A lot of the UI files are also kept there.

The tyDb file structure is also proprietary and has never been documented, but most of the files relating to the current configuration are located in the /State directory. One of the fields in the file named Media contains the encryption key.

The only known way to access any of that data is by running TCL scripts from the bash prompt on a running hacked TiVo.

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Old 01-05-2015, 03:20 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
The MFS application zones define areas of the overall MFS file system that are used as a proprietary directory structure. Scattererd throughout that directory structure are thousands of "tyDb" files that make up the overall database. A lot of the UI files are also kept there.

The tyDb file structure is also proprietary and has never been documented, but most of the files relating to the current configuration are located in the /State directory. One of the fields in the file named Media contains the encryption key.

The only known way to access any of that data is by running TCL scripts from the bash prompt on a running hacked TiVo.
So is the first place in which any of that would be partition 10, first part of the first MFS pair?

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Old 01-05-2015, 06:45 AM   #11
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Correct.

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Old 01-05-2015, 09:39 AM   #12
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Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
Correct.
So partitions 1-9 do not know the TSN?

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Old 01-06-2015, 07:05 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
So partitions 1-9 do not know the TSN?
The TSN could be in there somewhere, but not the encryption key that causes error 51.

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Old 02-19-2015, 01:36 AM   #14
cpace
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Thank you both for the help. As expected the files are lost forever. And just to add insult to injury, now both original drives work well

Out of sheer principle I had to "upgrade" both to new drives so I wouldn't go through this again anytime soon.

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Old 02-22-2015, 03:44 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
So partitions 1-9 do not know the TSN?
For Series 4:
Partitions 1-8 are box independent.

By that I mean the same model with the same version, could have the bits moved between them because the [functional] bits should be the same.

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