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Old 08-20-2013, 06:55 PM   #1
davezatz
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No Class Action!

Guess TiVo got tired of all the class action forum threads/threats...



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Old 08-20-2013, 07:19 PM   #2
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So what happens if you have lifetime, and opt out? Just curious.
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Old 08-20-2013, 09:52 PM   #3
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Why does this not surprise me?

Edit: the link works now.
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File Type: jpg tivo404.jpg (36.5 KB, 130 views)

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Old 08-20-2013, 09:52 PM   #4
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what class action threats?
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Old 08-20-2013, 11:49 PM   #5
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Does this mean they're getting ready to "UK" owners of lifetimed S1s?

Or owners of lifetimed anything that can't do digital cable/OTA?
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Old 08-21-2013, 01:21 AM   #6
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Just mail them notice that you're opting out. NBD, really. Done it so many times you end up generating a template.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:17 AM   #7
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Besides, nothing has ever come of any of those threads. Class action suits are a lot harder to certify these days, and you're usually looking at around $300K in up front costs just to get one into the court system.
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Old 08-21-2013, 09:55 AM   #8
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Virtually every single company is adding these arbitration rules to their TOS. It's become common practice since the SCOTUS said they were valid and binding.

Frankly, we should be happy... class actions may result in you getting free money randomly, but they rarely result in you getting enough free money to MATTER and they prohibit you from pursuing REAL damages (assuming you have any) and distribute most of the money to the lawyers who put together and litigate the cases.

Arbitration still has to be fair, or it's invalid and arbitrators go through a ton of training and vetting...

If TiVo genuinely messed up and you were due damages, you'd get them via arbitration.
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Old 08-21-2013, 11:01 AM   #9
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Replay reversed its position on ending guide data, probably after the threats of lawsuits posted online.

I'd still want the option of court, even for Tivos 10+ years old - might be enough leverage for a free or $99 transfer of lifetime if for some reason Tivo ever wants to stop supporting Series 1/2 units.

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Old 08-21-2013, 12:03 PM   #10
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Originally Posted by ncbill View Post
Replay reversed its position on ending guide data, probably after the threats of lawsuits posted online.

I'd still want the option of court, even for Tivos 10+ years old - might be enough leverage for a free or $99 transfer of lifetime if for some reason Tivo ever wants to stop supporting Series 1/2 units.
Arbitration is functionally the same as court. If the arbitrator does not represent the interests of both parties fairly (i.e. is negligent in his or her decision) you can still take it to a court and argue that.
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Old 08-21-2013, 12:26 PM   #11
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So opting out does that mean you contract is terminated? could you end without ETF?
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Old 08-21-2013, 02:41 PM   #12
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just imagine they were planning some change, had their attornies review the terms, and it was recommended to add language to protect themselves in case the worst happened. or not. we'll probably never know.

i wouldn't be surprise to see another tivo policy change on the way, affecting many users, after most subscribers opt-in to arbitration.
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Old 08-21-2013, 03:12 PM   #13
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TiVo has to be about the last company to add this language! HA...

I guess moving slowly is more then just converting admin screens to HD!
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Old 08-22-2013, 11:31 AM   #14
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"For some, arbitration proves too costly to pursue.

Among those who can afford the fees, many learn they cannot enforce their legal rights because arbitration decisions do not need to be based on the law;

arbitrators have their own procedures, and some studies have found that they are systematically biased in favor of the companies that hire them. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/07/op...tion.html?_r=0

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Arbitration is functionally the same as court. If the arbitrator does not represent the interests of both parties fairly (i.e. is negligent in his or her decision) you can still take it to a court and argue that.

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Old 08-22-2013, 12:54 PM   #15
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A handful of consumers are currently suing Comcast and other cable/satellite providers for allegedly colluding with professional sports leagues to limit the availability of most baseball, hockey, and football games to high-priced add-on packages like NHL Center Ice or MLB Extra Innings.
The plaintiff’s claims are valid enough that one federal judge has already shot down the defendants’ motion for dismissal, and it’s a classic class-action suit in that it involves a large segment of the public that was adversely affected, and who can be easily identified.
But it may never get to trial thanks to a few words in Comcast’s terms of service and two recent Supreme Court rulings that effectively granted companies the right to skirt laws by forcing customers out of court and into arbitration.
http://consumerist.com/2013/08/22/co...st-plain-evil/
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:23 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by ncbill View Post
"For some, arbitration proves too costly to pursue.

Among those who can afford the fees, many learn they cannot enforce their legal rights because arbitration decisions do not need to be based on the law;

arbitrators have their own procedures, and some studies have found that they are systematically biased in favor of the companies that hire them. "

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/03/07/op...tion.html?_r=0
and if you can go to court and show that the arbitration decision was biased in favor of the company, you can still win you case in court. Derp derp derp.
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:53 PM   #17
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and if you can go to court and show that the arbitration decision was biased in favor of the company, you can still win you case in court. Derp derp derp.
And you (singular) could go to court if you're Richard Branson or such that you (singular) can personally fund the $50,000 in legal fees to pursue your(singular) case for a $149 claim.
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Old 08-22-2013, 04:56 PM   #18
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Cheaper & easier to preserve my right to small claims via a simple opt-out letter instead.

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and if you can go to court and show that the arbitration decision was biased in favor of the company, you can still win you case in court. Derp derp derp.

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Old 08-22-2013, 05:44 PM   #19
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i am having a tough time coming up with a reason i would need to join a class action against a service provider. i can imagine issues with an equipment manufacturer, though, such as an equipment defect causing a fire. but a service provider?

i'll still probably put a stamp on it and mail it in anyway, just in case.
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Old 08-22-2013, 06:39 PM   #20
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I'll be one opting out. There's far too much mention of them taking punitive action against US, by discontinuing our TiVo service, and/or other penalties, if we don't abide by their new rules of engagement.

It's been in their past agreements, but seeing it in bold type multiple times on one screen worth was enough to turn me against it.
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:24 AM   #21
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I'm not opting out just cause I have better things to do then join a CAS against tivo. Depending on the CAS and the business involved, you almost never get but $20 out of the things. Either way, TiVo's been good to me the past 10 yrs or however longs its been so...
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Old 08-23-2013, 09:14 AM   #22
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Just having the ability to take them to court, individually, is leverage to getting lifetime moved to a new box in case they ever want to drop guide support for say, Series 1 & 2 lifetime models.

When Replay tried this a couple years back they rapidly reversed their decision after an outcry that included the threat of litigation.

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I'm not opting out just cause I have better things to do then join a CAS against tivo. Depending on the CAS and the business involved, you almost never get but $20 out of the things. Either way, TiVo's been good to me the past 10 yrs or however longs its been so...

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Old 08-23-2013, 01:18 PM   #23
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Just having the ability to take them to court, individually, is leverage to getting lifetime moved to a new box in case they ever want to drop guide support for say, Series 1 & 2 lifetime models.

When Replay tried this a couple years back they rapidly reversed their decision after an outcry that included the threat of litigation.
While some may argue that TiVo is one of the very last companies to add this type of wording to their TOS, it still is of more benefit to THEM that it could ever be to US (IMNSHO).

I'm opting out due to the reasons I've already posted a few posts back.

The new wording DOES make it easier for them to abandon us, or start saying "No!" to things that they would actually consider, when an end-user says "well, I guess I'll round up some people over at TCF and try to get a class-action going".

While Class Action lawsuits only make attorneys richer, and almost never net the "class" individuals any money, the threat alone does seem to make them think twice....
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:28 PM   #24
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i am having a tough time coming up with a reason i would need to join a class action against a service provider. i can imagine issues with an equipment manufacturer, though, such as an equipment defect causing a fire. but a service provider?

i'll still probably put a stamp on it and mail it in anyway, just in case.
When DirecTV ripped me off with the usual ETF for a bogus two year commit I told the guy that I'd go to the state's attorney. He laughed.

Then the State settled with DirecTV to credit victims with $149 for bogus early termination fees.
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Old 08-23-2013, 01:43 PM   #25
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Then the State settled with DirecTV to credit victims with $149 for bogus early termination fees.
so the arbitration clauses in everyone's service agreements are all your fault!
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Old 08-23-2013, 05:37 PM   #26
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so the arbitration clauses in everyone's service agreements are all your fault!
It wasn't me. I didn't even file for my dough.

But note that arbitration and class action limits only applies to civil suits, not criminal...or consumer law.
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Old 09-15-2013, 06:22 PM   #27
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So I guess even if I opt-out, because most others will never bother, any potential "class action" will be a class of a tiny number of tivocommunity who bothered to mail in a letter. I think once again the public is on the losing end to corporations. Which apparently ARE people.
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