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Old 12-16-2013, 09:42 AM   #1
dahacker
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Multiple MoCA Networks on Same COAX?

I just ordered a Roamio Pro and Mini to replace my HD and HD XL.

I have FIOS. My FIOS router is only MoCA 1.0 and is maxed out on the number of MoCA devices (My house isn't wired with Cat-5 and I have MoCA to Ethernet bridges at most TVs. Works ridiculously awesome by the way.).

Have any of you guys had problems with the Roamios and Minis running a second MoCA network on the same COAX on a different MoCA channel? Technically I guess this would be the third MoCA network, since FIOS uses one MoCA network for the broadband side, and another on the same COAX for the WAN side already.

What is the real bitrate requirement between a Roamio and a Mini? In the Tivo documentation it states that you need a MoCA PHY of at least 180 for three Minis simultaneously. They also state that a MoCA PHY of 180 is equivalent to 100Mbps. So does this mean a Roamio to Mini connection only requires 33Mbps? That is pretty slow.
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Old 12-16-2013, 04:44 PM   #2
BigJimOutlaw
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I believe it can technically be done but it's tricky. If it's essentially a separate network it needs its own subnet. I don't think the actiontec router supports more than one, but I might be completely wrong.

For the second, the general rule of thumb I follow is a PHY rate of 200 or better, but you could probably get by with 180 if Tivo says so. HDTV bitrates generally vary from 12-18 mbps, so a theoretical 33mbps connection is plenty to any individual Mini at any given time.

Is the Roamio going to have an ethernet run to a router to establish the second moca network? If so, you might as well disable the moca output on the router and use the Roamio as a 1.1 host for everything.

Last edited by BigJimOutlaw : 12-16-2013 at 06:02 PM.
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Old 12-16-2013, 05:45 PM   #3
JosephB
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Why not disable or disconnect the MoCA from the FiOS router and just use the MoCA network created by the Roamio across your entire network?
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:05 PM   #4
dahacker
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigJimOutlaw View Post
I believe it can technically be done but it's tricky. If it's essentially a separate network it needs its own subnet. I don't think the actiontec router supports more than one, but I might be completely wrong.

For the second, the general rule of thumb I follow is a PHY rate of 200 or better, but you could probably get by with 180 if Tivo says so. HDTV bitrates generally vary from 12-18 mbps, so a theoretical 33mbps connection is plenty to any individual Mini at any given time.

Is the Roamio going to have an ethernet run to a router to establish the second moca network? If so, you might as well disable the moca output on the router and use the Roamio as a 1.1 host for everything.
I don't think the subnet will be a problem. If I am not mistaken, the Roamio just bridges the Ethernet to its MoCA network and everything is on the same IP subnet.

As far as the Roamio is concerned its route to the Internet will be via its Ethernet. I can't disable the MoCA on the router because as with most FIOS setups, that is how router communicates with the fiber Network Terminal for the broadband communication to begin with. Additionally I will have at least one FIOS cable box that also uses MoCA.

It is an interesting proposal to use the Roamio's MoCA 1.1 as the central MoCA controller, but I have several MoCA 1.0 devices and as long as you have a 1.0 device on even a MoCA 1.1 network you are limited to 8 devices.
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Old 12-16-2013, 07:11 PM   #5
dahacker
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Why not disable or disconnect the MoCA from the FiOS router and just use the MoCA network created by the Roamio across your entire network?
I can't disable the MoCA on the router because as with most FIOS setups, that is how router communicates with the fiber Network Terminal for the broadband communication to begin with.
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:36 PM   #6
JosephB
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I can't disable the MoCA on the router because as with most FIOS setups, that is how router communicates with the fiber Network Terminal for the broadband communication to begin with.
Really? That kind of sucks. I always though there was an Ethernet output on the ONT for IP and the coax was for video.
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Old 12-17-2013, 04:52 PM   #7
Time_Lord
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I can't disable the MoCA on the router because as with most FIOS setups, that is how router communicates with the fiber Network Terminal for the broadband communication to begin with.
Actually you can simply contact FiOS support and request they change the handoff from MoCA to ethernet on the ONT, its a simple programming change that Verizon can do remotely, takes about 30 seconds or so to perform.

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Old 12-17-2013, 05:13 PM   #8
Zu Nim
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Actually you can simply contact FiOS support and request they change the handoff from MoCA to ethernet on the ONT, its a simple programming change that Verizon can do remotely, takes about 30 seconds or so to perform.

-TL
If they switch from MoCA to Ethernet, don't you have to run an Ethernet cable from the ONT into the house? Are you even allowed to touch the ONT to do that?
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Old 12-17-2013, 07:46 PM   #9
dahacker
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Originally Posted by Time_Lord View Post
Actually you can simply contact FiOS support and request they change the handoff from MoCA to ethernet on the ONT, its a simple programming change that Verizon can do remotely, takes about 30 seconds or so to perform.

-TL
I'd have to run Ethernet from the ONT to the Router to make that work. That is why they usually use MoCA on the broadband side in the first place to make the installs easier.

I'll have my Roamio on Friday and have the Mini in a box and if I have time to get it fully updated (and cablecard paired properly), I'll give the third MoCA network on the same COAX a try and report my findings. I haven't seen any detailed documentation on that section of the Roamio setup dealing with setting the MoCA channel manually though. Hopefully it is obvious. If it is a failure, I'll probably just go and update my router to a current version and update my three other MoCA 1.0 network bridges to MoCA 1.1.
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Old 12-21-2013, 06:26 PM   #10
Scootr
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Anyone with fios, are you able to use Verizon's video on demand? I can' together HBO channels to come up in channels unless I turn to each channel one at a time. I think I need a tuning adapter.
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Old 12-21-2013, 06:33 PM   #11
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Anyone with fios, are you able to use Verizon's video on demand? I can' together HBO channels to come up in channels unless I turn to each channel one at a time. I think I need a tuning adapter.
Fios doesn't use tuning adapters. Verizon's VOD isn't available on Tivo. Are you having a problem with the actual channels themselves?
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Old 12-22-2013, 05:51 AM   #12
sangs
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Originally Posted by Scootr View Post
Anyone with fios, are you able to use Verizon's video on demand? I can' together HBO channels to come up in channels unless I turn to each channel one at a time. I think I need a tuning adapter.
You have to use the on-line chat (much better than calling) to get your cable card paired or manually validated in order to see HBO (or Cinemax) channels. Once they do that, the channels will pop up. There is no VOD capability with FiOS however.
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Old 12-23-2013, 07:19 AM   #13
dahacker
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Anyone with fios, are you able to use Verizon's video on demand? I can' together HBO channels to come up in channels unless I turn to each channel one at a time. I think I need a tuning adapter.
Since you can actually tune into the channel, your cablecard is setup right. You must not have selected the premium channels in guided setup or you have the wrong provider set.

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/211
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Old 12-23-2013, 09:59 AM   #14
dahacker
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OK,

Just a followup of my findings on my FIOS MoCA 1.0 network. I wanted to attempt to use the Roamio Ethernet as the route to the Internet and have it create a new MoCA network bridge to communicate with Tivo Minis. Setup via Ethernet went fine. After that I went into the network setting and had the Roamio create a new MoCA network. Whenever I did that, the Tivo basically could not access the Internet and complained about the connection to the router. I tried doing MoCA in Auto and on every single manual MoCA channel.

I'm guessing that the Roamio creating a new MoCA network did not play nicely with my MI424WR Revision E router's MoCA networks on any frequency.

Anyway, I punted and have left the Roamio on Ethernet only and I had room for one Mini on the MoCA network. It works fine in that configuration. At some point in the future I will update the router to a new one that supports MoCA 1.1 and everything will play nice together.

BTW, FIOS TV came through this time and getting someone to manually validate my cablecard so that HBO would work only took 5 minutes!
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