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Old 01-17-2013, 04:00 AM   #1
photoshopgrl
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Supernatural - "Torn and Frayed" - 1/16/13

Thanks for not starting the thread without me!

I’ll start with the sad.

I feel bad for Amelia. She was choosing Sam. He was the first thing she thought of and the last thing she thought of at the end of the day. Yes, I did not love that she was basically cheating on Don with Sam but love is complicated. That situation is complicated. As with anything else, there’s no black or white, wrong or right here to me. I was literally talking to the TV during her speech about how they’d know and kept repeating “Amelia honey, he may love you but he will never pick you over Dean. Never. It will never happen.” of that I was certain. Would have been certain even if this had been a series finale. Sam will always choose Dean. Dean will always choose Sam. How many times do we have to learn this lesson before people stop losing faith in these two?

I feel bad for Benny. He’s going to go off the rails. He now has nobody. So you know somewhere down the line, Sam and Dean will have to hunt him down and kill him. And when that time comes Benny will probably thank them for it. And I’ll be very sad for him all over again.

Cas. WTF is going on there. Naomi is mind controlling him. Had him kill Samandriel for what? What was the point? The secret is already out. Samandriel didn’t even know he knew these things so how exactly is he a traitor? Now Cas gets to live with that too. Fantastic. The angels continue to prove that they are as bad as the demons. None of them give a crap about anyone. Ugh.

And since when does the angel blade work on demons? Don't you think that was something the boys needed to know before now!?

Now for the good!

I started the show yelling at Dean for walking out on Sam having said he wasn’t sure if he was done with Benny because HELLO DEAN WILL ALWAYS CHOOSE SAM. There’s no way that was going any other way. Thank God for Cas going to retrieve him for help. I loved them working together at the warehouse. Always having each other’s backs. Working seamlessly together. As usual. As if nothing happened. As if they didn’t spend a year apart. As if they didn’t just have one of the biggest falling outs of their relationship. They cannot help it. They are each other’s soul. Bottom line. To hell with anyone that says differently. They function best as a team. They do it without even thinking, it’s ingrained in who they are. Protect your brother at all costs. That’s all they know. I was literally praying to my TV while Dean was on the phone with Benny “please let Sam overhear, please let Sam overhear”. They didn’t tell us, but I assume he didn’t. And he choose Dean anyhow. Just kill me now. I think I'm codependent on their codependency!
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Old 01-17-2013, 06:40 AM   #2
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Cas. WTF is going on there. Naomi is mind controlling him. Had him kill Samandriel for what? What was the point? The secret is already out. Samandriel didn’t even know he knew these things so how exactly is he a traitor? Now Cas gets to live with that too. Fantastic. The angels continue to prove that they are as bad as the demons. None of them give a crap about anyone. Ugh.
Ah, but whose secret, traitor to what, and define "out" ...

You seem to be assuming that Naomi is what she claims to be, but I know you know better than that!
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Now for the good!
Forgive me for pointing out that all of this directly follows from everything you've been complaining about this season...
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:07 AM   #3
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Ah, but whose secret, traitor to what, and define "out" ...

You seem to be assuming that Naomi is what she claims to be, but I know you know better than that!

Forgive me for pointing out that all of this directly follows from everything you've been complaining about this season...
Secret being that Crowley knows about the tablet. How much worse could it be? What damage could Samandriel have done further? There was no reason to kill him. And I realize Naomi might not be what she claims but she did hear his distress call. So what does that mean? I don't know.

And what exactly are you pointing out to me that I've been complaining about? The lack of brother bond? YES I KNOW THIS! That's why I was literally doing the happy dance in my living room. I am VERY okay with this episode. It's not everything. They still need a come to jesus talk to bear their entire souls but I'm okay with this. It's a start. They chose each other. More importantly, Sam chose to stay with his brother instead of go to the woman he loves that he believes can make him happy. I cry and my tears are their codependency.

And as far as Naomi goes. Anyone notice anything weird about these photos??
Spoiler:

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Old 01-17-2013, 08:37 AM   #4
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Right, but my point is that you seemed to be complaining about the brother stuff in such a way that you didn't have faith that they knew what they were doing.

One thing I've learned about this show is that even when they seem to be going off the rails one way or another, they're really not...they're just more clever than I am.

I don't think Naomi had Samandriel killed because Crowley now knows about the tablet. I think she had Samandriel killed so Cas wouldn't find out about the tablet. Crowley isn't Naomi's enemy; Cas is Naomi's enemy.
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:51 AM   #5
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Right, but my point is that you seemed to be complaining about the brother stuff in such a way that you didn't have faith that they knew what they were doing.

One thing I've learned about this show is that even when they seem to be going off the rails one way or another, they're really not...they're just more clever than I am.

I don't think Naomi had Samandriel killed because Crowley now knows about the tablet. I think she had Samandriel killed so Cas wouldn't find out about the tablet. Crowley isn't Naomi's enemy; Cas is Naomi's enemy.
You mistake my frustration with lack of faith. I even said at one point that I realized this would have been how I acted in Season 6 when the whole Soulless Sam storyline was unfolding. I was even reassuring other fans that it would all be okay. The backbone of the entire show is the brothers. That doesn't make me any happier and it doesn't make it less frustrating and downright painful, especially the ending before the break.

And I still need to see Sam between the time Dean disappeared and him hitting the dog. It still feels OOC to me that he wouldn't have looked for Dean. I can't shake it no matter how many logical ways I (or anyone else) can come up with for why he didn't.

And we still don't know who the figure was watching the house in the first episode!

Still so much to know!
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Old 01-17-2013, 08:55 AM   #6
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Did Naomi reprogram Cas like Crowley did with Samandriel, and that is how she is controlling him? He is back to doing the bidding of Angels when he left it behind.

Who is Naomi? She how does she fit into the angel hierarchy?

Were is Chuck? I am starting to doubt my thoughts he is just God in disguise.

Benny will reappear, and I agree unfortunately I think Dean will eventually have to kill him.
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Old 01-19-2013, 12:15 PM   #7
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Not a spoiler but I'm going to tag it just in case. An interesting theory on Naomi.
Spoiler:


Naomi has been a fishy character from the start, and I don’t believe that she’s an angel.

None of the other angels thought it was possible to rescue Castiel from Purgatory (Samandriel sure didn’t) and Purgatory is a very hard place to reach to. And suddenly Castiel is out? I don’t think the angels have that sort of power to cross into Purgatory like that, or else Raphael wouldn’t have been battling against Castiel if it was.

I think Naomi is one of the sisters of Fate. Not only is she very interested in controlling others, but she’s also ruling Heaven from what’s been shown. And it makes sense for the sisters to have taken over Heaven once it started to fall apart. They used to work for Heaven, writing the story of the Apocalypse, why wouldn’t they take over Heaven when there was no one to lead it?

They certainly do have the power to.

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Old 01-19-2013, 07:35 PM   #8
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Originally Posted by photoshopgrl View Post

I feel bad for Amelia. She was choosing Sam. He was the first thing she thought of and the last thing she thought of at the end of the day. Yes, I did not love that she was basically cheating on Don with Sam but love is complicated. That situation is complicated. As with anything else, there’s no black or white, wrong or right here to me. I was literally talking to the TV during her speech about how they’d know and kept repeating “Amelia honey, he may love you but he will never pick you over Dean. Never. It will never happen.” of that I was certain. Would have been certain even if this had been a series finale. Sam will always choose Dean. Dean will always choose Sam. How many times do we have to learn this lesson before people stop losing faith in these two?
It's funny how you point out that they are co-dependent.
I have to wonder now if part of the reason they keep running back to each other and their crap life is because they really don't know better.
Is this a dysfunctional relationship or not?

So there is a Angel tablet?
Very interesting.
Will the season end with both the Angel and Demon tablets activated?
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:02 AM   #9
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Well, someone has to find that angel tablet before anything can be done with it. They HAVE the demon tablet, and can barely traslate it, much less use it.

Real estate in heaven must be really cheap now that so many angels have been destroyed.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:03 AM   #10
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I felt bad for Benny but I'm tired of Sam and Dean being pissed at each other. If we have to sacrifice Benny to get them back to being civil, then ok.
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Old 01-20-2013, 01:46 PM   #11
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I don't think Naomi had Samandriel killed because Crowley now knows about the tablet. I think she had Samandriel killed so Cas wouldn't find out about the tablet.
I thought it was very clear that Naomi had Cas kill Samandriel so that he couldn't tell Cas about how Naomi was controlling Cas.
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:10 PM   #12
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I thought it was very clear that Naomi had Cas kill Samandriel so that he couldn't tell Cas about how Naomi was controlling Cas.
I agree.

Samandriel "They're controlling us"
Cas "Who?"
Naomi "Kill him. This is a direct order"
Cas <stabby>
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:23 PM   #13
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It's always weird to me that we keep seeing Mark Pelligrino (Lucifer) in the credits for years now, and he perhaps makes an appearance once per season. I wonder if he worked a deal out with the producers that he gets credited for as long as the show is on the air...

And remember a couple of years ago when Sam had Lucifer in his head.. and then that transferred to Cas.. and then Cas went crazy because Lucifer was in his head? And we don't hear much about that anymore...
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Old 01-20-2013, 02:50 PM   #14
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Well, someone has to find that angel tablet before anything can be done with it. They HAVE the demon tablet, and can barely traslate it, much less use it.
Well, Kevin has half of the Demon tablet.


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It's always weird to me that we keep seeing Mark Pelligrino (Lucifer) in the credits for years now, and he perhaps makes an appearance once per season. I wonder if he worked a deal out with the producers that he gets credited for as long as the show is on the air...


Mark Pelligrino is not in the credits of the show unless he actually appears in the episode.

If he's appearing in the Tribune guide data, that doesn't count as it's often inaccurate.
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:17 PM   #15
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It's always weird to me that we keep seeing Mark Pelligrino (Lucifer) in the credits for years now, and he perhaps makes an appearance once per season. I wonder if he worked a deal out with the producers that he gets credited for as long as the show is on the air...

And remember a couple of years ago when Sam had Lucifer in his head.. and then that transferred to Cas.. and then Cas went crazy because Lucifer was in his head? And we don't hear much about that anymore...
You don't see Mark Pelligrino in the credits - you see Mark Sheppard (Crowley) and you think Mark Pelligrino. I do the same thing. Every. Time. ("Oh, Lucifer's in this one! Wait, no...")
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Old 01-20-2013, 03:31 PM   #16
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(...) you see Mark Sheppard (Crowley) and you think Mark Pelligrino.
Funny---I see Mark Sheppard and I think "Badger!"
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Old 01-21-2013, 10:19 AM   #17
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You don't see Mark Pelligrino in the credits - you see Mark Sheppard (Crowley) and you think Mark Pelligrino. I do the same thing. Every. Time. ("Oh, Lucifer's in this one! Wait, no...")

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Old 02-01-2013, 12:02 AM   #18
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Just wanted to say danter is totally right. That's exactly what was going on in my head.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:12 AM   #19
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Just wanted to say danter is totally right. That's exactly what was going on in my head.
Weird...I never have any difficulty distinguishing them. In fact, I was amazed that anybody could confuse them.

And now there are two of you. Is this like Invasion of the Body-Snatchers? Will I soon be the only one left?



Oh, and as for those pictures...Hugo Weaving wins on box-office, but Sheppard rules the airwaves. Plus he's second-generation nerd royalty...his Dad was on Doctor Who, Alias, Charmed, Star Trek Voyager, Timecop, Babylon 5, Seaquest, Star Trek TNG, Max Hearoom, Day of the Triffids, New Avengers, plus a ton of movies.
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Old 02-01-2013, 06:23 AM   #20
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Weird...I never have any difficulty distinguishing them. In fact, I was amazed that anybody could confuse them.

And now there are two of you. Is this like Invasion of the Body-Snatchers? Will I soon be the only one left?

It's insidious
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Old 02-04-2013, 10:08 AM   #21
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"Carry On Wayward Son" is playing softly from my coworker's radio right now. I am utterly incapable of disassociating it from Supernatural. Even though I knew and liked the song for many years before the show started, it IS Supernatural to me now.
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Old 02-04-2013, 12:03 PM   #22
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Same! And now I am utterly incapable of hearing it without getting all choked up. Even if I think I'm good the minute they get to the lyrics of "Now your life's no longer empty...Surely heaven waits for you" and I'm done. This show has made me into a blubbering mess. Just now typing the lyrics out I felt my throat close a little.
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