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Old 04-07-2012, 01:25 AM   #1
slice1900
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More on 20.2 and closed captioning

With the unfortunate loss of the ability to view closed captions at 1xFF speed thanks to 20.2, I've been trying to come up with ways to get back this very useful feature.

Based on what others have heard from Margaret at Tivo, this won't be coming back in the software for various unspecified technical reasons.

However, I would think the ability to pull Tivo recordings off the Tivo for viewing elsewhere would permit this ability. Tivo Desktop is pretty much useless, as it doesn't display captions at all. Perhaps someone else is aware of a way to pull records off a Tivo, or use the .TiVo file transferred from off a Premiere? Then we just need to find software that would allow viewing captions while watching a recording at faster than normal speed.

Since Tivo broke this useful functionality with the 20.2 upgrade, maybe they could spend a little time enchancing Tivo Desktop with this capability? Its the least they can do. Not only did 20.2 lose this functionality, my Tivo has been less stable since the 20.2 upgrade. This "upgrade" has really been a crappy deal all the way around as far as I'm concerned.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:43 AM   #2
pmiranda
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If you're lucky enough to live in a place where the cable company doesn't copy-protect everything, you could use pytivo (maybe tivo desktop and definitely some other programs) on your PC to pull the shows you care about, then use t2sami (if you can find it) or ccextractor to get the captions out, then write out a new file with something like handbrake with the captions "burned in" to the video itself. If you wrote to MPEG-4, then you'd want to push the video back to tivo, either with pytivo on the PC or pytivo video manager.

I have never gotten this chain of stuff to work myself but do some searches in the "TiVo Home Media Features & TiVoToGo" forum and you can find out much more.
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Old 04-07-2012, 01:38 PM   #3
slice1900
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Actually an even better idea occurred to me, that maybe Tivo could implement to fix the issue for those of us affected without changing anything for everyone else. I recall on my Series 2 Tivo that it wasn't the Tivo producing the closed captions, it was my TV. The CC info was just passed through directly to my TV. Captions at 1xFF worked fine since the Tivo also sent through the CC data at that speed.

Is there any way Tivo Premiere could offer the option to not display captions but to simply pass the CC data through to the TV unchanged like the Series 2 did? If this could be done, and the software changes that prevent Tivo from displaying the captions at 1xFF post-20.2 update don't also prevent passing through captions at 1xFF, those of us who relied on this previously could be made happy again without interfering with whatever software changes that necessitated removing the ability to display captions at 1xFF.

I shouldn't think it would be that hard to implement, all that's required is simply passing through the MPEG2 data received from the cable company without stripping out the CC data as is currently done, and adding a new option in the closed captioning menu to control this.

Hopefully someone from Tivo or with connections to the right people in Tivo will see this suggestion gets sent to the proper people to determine if its feasible!
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Old 04-07-2012, 02:25 PM   #4
pmiranda
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If I recall correctly, captions are passed in the vertical blanking interval in NTSC (analog standard-definition composite or S-Video), but there is no standard for passing captions on analog component video, DVI, or HDMI. TiVo can't generate a QAM or VSB modulated HD signal that would carry captions, either.
Ideally they'd figure out how to restore the feature, that I occasionally used too, but I had already given up on it for alot of things because some video streams (like ABC) seem to not allow the first FF to go faster than normal playback so I gained nothing.
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Old 04-09-2012, 02:30 PM   #5
slice1900
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pmiranda View Post
If I recall correctly, captions are passed in the vertical blanking interval in NTSC (analog standard-definition composite or S-Video), but there is no standard for passing captions on analog component video, DVI, or HDMI. TiVo can't generate a QAM or VSB modulated HD signal that would carry captions, either.
Ideally they'd figure out how to restore the feature, that I occasionally used too, but I had already given up on it for alot of things because some video streams (like ABC) seem to not allow the first FF to go faster than normal playback so I gained nothing.
So if that's the case, those of us who want the feature would need to wire up another connection between the Tivo and TV using SD. That'd be fine with me, as I tend to use this feature on news/documentary type programs where displaying (or even recording) in SD would be fine. This isn't something you're going to use when watching a program where the visuals are the most important thing (like Discovery Channel's awesome Frozen Planet series)

I had noticed what you did about certain channels not going 3x speed for 1xFF but slower. Some went more like 2x, and my local PBS channel was more like 1.1x. Perhaps it has something to do with the frequency MPEG2 key frames are supplied in the feed. If could tell Tivo what to do, I'd have them bring back the old CC behavior on Premiere allowing display at 1xFF, and fix it so 1xFF was 3x normal speed all the time. But I'm not holding my breath for either "fix"
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Old 04-11-2012, 02:54 PM   #6
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I've got a S3 next to my Elite, and to get captions on 1st ff, I MRV the programs, which are normally HD, from the Elite to the S3 and watch there where the captions work fine in ff mode. Of course, this doesn't work if the programs are copy protected, but that's unusual for me. My links are fast enough that this works fairly well as long as I've got some time to get the tranfer started a bit in advance of watching. If I know in advance the programs are no copy and I'll want ff captions, I record on the S3 initially--in a way, I'm using the Elite as just a four channel recording and storage device.
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