TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 07-24-2014, 04:37 PM   #121
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 5,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
Google, BWM and others think you're wrong. The Google autonomous car can drive on regular streets and react to the actions of other cars and pedestrians. It's basically ready to go technology at this point. The problem is that the car with all the sensors would cost like $150K so it's a bit out of reach for most people. Plus the laws governing autonomous cars are not yet set. They have a limited license to drive them in CA and NV but they have to carry special insurance and it still requires someone to be behind the wheel "just in case".
They still use them in a controlled situation, the driverless car for everyday use for ordinary people at any price is 50 years out. Now it is just a concept, like some of the cars you see at auto shows, great to look at but very few come out for general sales, it done for publicly mostly. It will take more time than I have to prove I am correct, but if they do come out for general sales in the next 10 years I will eat humble pie. Look how hard a time we are having just to get cars out to the general population that don't use any carbon type fuel, and all electric cars that can hold 5 people are now for sale, it just that few people are buying. I have 3 cars so I would like my next car to be all electric to use around town (I would never take it on any trip over 30 miles, (that would be 60 round trip) as I want some safety if I should stuck in traffic in hot or very cold weather.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis, Also 1 not used Humax Series 2 with a DVD burner
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-24-2014, 09:31 PM   #122
mattack
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: sunnyvale
Posts: 16,956
They're not in a *fully* controlled situation. They're out on real roads, with real traffic.

One thing I've seen they can't handle yet is parking lots.

Don't get me wrong, I think I'm more wary of them than most people, but with as many stupid drivers as there are out there, I think the driverless car will be at least as good as the bad drivers, probably a lot better.
mattack is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 01:35 AM   #123
bareyb
Under Maintenance
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Silicon Valley, California
Posts: 22,268
TC CLUB MEMBER
I saw a teenaged driver texting while driving just today. She was on the freeway. With all the distracted drivers we are producing, driverless or at least semi-driverless cars probably would be safer.
__________________
Never attribute to malice that which is adequately explained by human error
bareyb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 07:30 AM   #124
dlfl
Cranky old novice
 
dlfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Near Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 5,914
Quote:
Originally Posted by bareyb View Post
I saw a teenaged driver texting while driving just today. She was on the freeway. With all the distracted drivers we are producing, driverless or at least semi-driverless cars probably would be safer.
So we have a growing number of driverless cars on the road already.
Judging by our local news, the rate of distracted-driver accidents is growing exponentially.
__________________

"It must be swell to be so perfect and odor-free" -- Del Griffith


VideoReDo users: Try
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

pyTivo users: Try
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dlfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 07:39 AM   #125
mr.unnatural
Registered User
 
mr.unnatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
Google, BWM and others think you're wrong. The Google autonomous car can drive on regular streets and react to the actions of other cars and pedestrians. It's basically ready to go technology at this point. The problem is that the car with all the sensors would cost like $150K so it's a bit out of reach for most people. Plus the laws governing autonomous cars are not yet set. They have a limited license to drive them in CA and NV but they have to carry special insurance and it still requires someone to be behind the wheel "just in case".
I can see it on side streets, but not a busy multi-lane highway during rush hour? I can't see how an automated car could possibly react quick enough with all the idiots driving on the Washington Beltway at breakneck speeds constantly switching lanes. The car could swerve to avoid one vehicle and end up in the path of another. Panic stops involving multiple rear end collisions are commonplace. The car could keep you from running into someone else but it can't keep the car behind you from plowing into you if you're stopped.

My point is, in order for automated vehicles to operate safely, they'd all have to function under the same parameters in a controlled environment (i.e., dedicated lanes). Mixing them in with regular drivers is a suicide mission. The car may be smart enough to avoid causing a collision, but there's no way it could possibly avoid every possible scenario involving other vehicles on a crowded thoroughfare.
mr.unnatural is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 07:42 AM   #126
CrispyCritter
Purple Ribbon Wearer
 
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: North Potomac, MD
Posts: 3,637
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
The car may be smart enough to avoid causing a collision, but there's no way it could possibly avoid every possible scenario involving other vehicles on a crowded thoroughfare.
And when you consider the propensity of teens (and some others) to cut it as close as possible, once you get safer other cars, then the cars being driven manually will be driven that much more aggressively.
__________________
CrispyCritter
TiVo Roamio:Felix TiVo Premiere:Bob TiVo XL4:Fred TiVo HDXL:Sharon TiVoHD:Susan
CrispyCritter is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 10:01 AM   #127
telemark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
I can't see how an automated car could possibly react quick enough with all the idiots driving on the Washington Beltway at breakneck speeds constantly switching lanes.
Computers have faster response times than humans. The Google implementation has a 360 degree (3D) view of the surroundings, something humans can't do. Some implementations have IR sensors for pedestrians and deer.

That's enough advantages that they will eventually reach a level that humans can not match.

Another way to look at it, a professional race car driver can train the computer's instincts. Once perfected, it can be duplicated to all cars. But you can't do that with humans.

And another, it's trivial to take 100 cars after a year, and merge their collective experience into the next version.
It's impossible to train a teenager with 100 years of experience within a year.
telemark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 10:20 AM   #128
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 5,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
I can see it on side streets, but not a busy multi-lane highway during rush hour? I can't see how an automated car could possibly react quick enough with all the idiots driving on the Washington Beltway at breakneck speeds constantly switching lanes. The car could swerve to avoid one vehicle and end up in the path of another. Panic stops involving multiple rear end collisions are commonplace. The car could keep you from running into someone else but it can't keep the car behind you from plowing into you if you're stopped.

My point is, in order for automated vehicles to operate safely, they'd all have to function under the same parameters in a controlled environment (i.e., dedicated lanes). Mixing them in with regular drivers is a suicide mission. The car may be smart enough to avoid causing a collision, but there's no way it could possibly avoid every possible scenario involving other vehicles on a crowded thoroughfare.
Even on a side street could a driverless car see someone in the road directing you not to make a left turn (normally legal) because of say construction work, just one of many reason these cars will not be at your dealers within the next 50 years, how about someone warning you the bridge ahead just fell down (happen in CT a few years ago), a sign saying a exit is closed, I could go on and on, driverless cars, great idea, going nowhere (for the general public) for now.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis, Also 1 not used Humax Series 2 with a DVD burner
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 10:30 AM   #129
dlfl
Cranky old novice
 
dlfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Near Dayton, Ohio
Posts: 5,914
Quote:
Originally Posted by CrispyCritter View Post
And when you consider the propensity of teens (and some others) to cut it as close as possible, once you get safer other cars, then the cars being driven manually will be driven that much more aggressively.
+1

That is exactly how a sizable segment of our population, not just teens, will "game" such a system to their selfish advantage. Some of them will even get a big laugh out of the extreme reactions they provoke from the automated cars.

Maybe we need further automation that would detect, record and report reckless driving ... but wait that would infringe on our constitutional rights to break the law and not get caught!
__________________

"It must be swell to be so perfect and odor-free" -- Del Griffith


VideoReDo users: Try
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

pyTivo users: Try
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
and
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
dlfl is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 06:08 PM   #130
mr.unnatural
Registered User
 
mr.unnatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by telemark View Post
Computers have faster response times than humans. The Google implementation has a 360 degree (3D) view of the surroundings, something humans can't do. Some implementations have IR sensors for pedestrians and deer.
Response time is moot when you have multiple vehicles trying to occupy the same space at the same time.

Case in point: Several years ago I was driving to work on the Baltimore beltway during rush hour in extremely heavy traffic. All of the traffic ahead of me came to a panic stop so I slammed on my brakes to avoid hitting the car in front of me. The car directly behind me was also able to stop in time, but the car behind him had to swerve to the left to avoid hitting him in the rear. In the process of avoiding him the driver hit a minivan coming up fast in the left lane. He bounced off the minivan and careened into me, taking out both the left front and rear fenders and both left side doors. I was sitting still at the time.

Now tell me, how is having a computer-controlled vehicle going to help in this situation? If it's being used in a controlled environment, such as dedicated lanes occupied by nothing but other similar vehicles, they could all interact with each other and completely avoid any such situations. The minute you add vehicles controlled by human drivers you allow chaos into the equation. Computers can only control the vehicle they're in. They have no control over the surrounding environment. They can monitor it and take evasive action when necessary, but that can only work up to a point. You still need room to maneuver a vehicle safely, whether controlled by a computer or by a human.

Now, a computer-controlled vehicle would strive to maintain a safe distance between the vehicle and any car in front of it. Problem is, if you try to do that on any busy highway with human drivers you're going to find that safe distance between you and the car in front of you will quickly become occupied by several other vehicles. Try it sometime and you'll see what I mean. Rule of thumb is to have one car length between you and the car ahead of you for every 10 miles per hour. Do that and you'll have anywhere from three to five cars filling that space in short order.
mr.unnatural is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 06:54 PM   #131
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
Response time is moot when you have multiple vehicles trying to occupy the same space at the same time.
Same is true with a human driver. A computer can't completely avoid an accident if there is no way for it to do so. But it can do things a human can't. For example it can slow the car just enough to avoid hitting the car that's cutting it off without slamming on the breaks so hard the person behind it slams into the back. It's accurate to with-in inches and doesn't ever panic. So given the same situation with a human driver and autonomous car the autonomous car would likely do better even if the ultimate end was an unavoidable accident. It's also less likely to put itself into a situation like that to begin with as it wont tailgate like most people are prone to do.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 07:04 PM   #132
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
Even on a side street could a driverless car see someone in the road directing you not to make a left turn (normally legal) because of say construction work, just one of many reason these cars will not be at your dealers within the next 50 years, how about someone warning you the bridge ahead just fell down (happen in CT a few years ago), a sign saying a exit is closed, I could go on and on, driverless cars, great idea, going nowhere (for the general public) for now.
IIRC the Google car can already detect cones and lane shifts due to construction. I'm not sure about humans directing traffic, but as of right now it requires a capable human driver behind the wheel to take over if a situation arises that it can't handle, so in that case you'd just switch to manual mode, navigate the obstacle, and then turn the driving back over to the car. Now that's not ideal for some of the situations we discussed, like the handicap or impaired, driving but it's a good start. Plus they are making exponential progress. This thing started out like 8-10 years ago not even being able to properly negotiate a circular off ramp. Now it can drive on city streets and only has trouble with the most complex obstacles.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 07:25 PM   #133
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 5,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
IIRC the Google car can already detect cones and lane shifts due to construction. I'm not sure about humans directing traffic, but as of right now it requires a capable human driver behind the wheel to take over if a situation arises that it can't handle, so in that case you'd just switch to manual mode, navigate the obstacle, and then turn the driving back over to the car. Now that's not ideal for some of the situations we discussed, like the handicap or impaired, driving but it's a good start. Plus they are making exponential progress. This thing started out like 8-10 years ago not even being able to properly negotiate a circular off ramp. Now it can drive on city streets and only has trouble with the most complex obstacles.
A TiVo itself is in a controlled environment for all its software/hardware and still some people have problems with their TiVo freezing or re-booting, not many problems, and nothing bad happens, but if a TiVo re-boot caused a death or injury.... What happens when these cars computers re-boot going 60MPH on a highway ? (even 1 in a 1000 chance) The idea that the driver would take over in an instant is not practical, I have the radar type speed control in one of my cars, a great invention, but I am steering the car just not using the gas or break, heavy rain comes, the radar stops working, and I get a loud warning, not a problem because my right foot is still near the gas or brake if needed, and I am still driving, not engaged in something other than driving (like catching up on some sleep).

We now have good automatic public trains now like in the AL airport, they work great because all the trains are tied together in one system.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis, Also 1 not used Humax Series 2 with a DVD burner
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 08:09 PM   #134
telemark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
Same is true with a human driver. A computer can't completely avoid an accident if there is no way for it to do so. But it can do things a human can't.
Well said.

The media / public gravitates to a fear that Robots will attack Humans.
But actually it'll be Humans attacking Robot [cars].

Maybe if we make them look like Knight Rider or Herbey, people will have a different reaction.
telemark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 08:55 PM   #135
mr.unnatural
Registered User
 
mr.unnatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
Same is true with a human driver. A computer can't completely avoid an accident if there is no way for it to do so. But it can do things a human can't. For example it can slow the car just enough to avoid hitting the car that's cutting it off without slamming on the breaks so hard the person behind it slams into the back. It's accurate to with-in inches and doesn't ever panic. So given the same situation with a human driver and autonomous car the autonomous car would likely do better even if the ultimate end was an unavoidable accident. It's also less likely to put itself into a situation like that to begin with as it wont tailgate like most people are prone to do.
You just made my point for me. A computer could completely avoid an accident if it were being used in a controlled environment (i.e., dedicated roadways or isolated lanes occupied only with other computer-controlled vehicles). The computers would automatically maintain a safe distance and speed and eliminate the variables caused by human interaction. If you mix them into the mainstream traffic then all bets are off.

Quote:
Originally Posted by telemark View Post
Maybe if we make them look like Knight Rider or Herbey, people will have a different reaction.
Who's Herbey? I think you meant Herbie, The Love Bug.
mr.unnatural is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-25-2014, 11:41 PM   #136
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 5,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
You just made my point for me. A computer could completely avoid an accident if it were being used in a controlled environment (i.e., dedicated roadways or isolated lanes occupied only with other computer-controlled vehicles). The computers would automatically maintain a safe distance and speed and eliminate the variables caused by human interaction. If you mix them into the mainstream traffic then all bets are off.

The next step in commercial airplanes is just that, all planes will be fitted with a computer that can communicate with all other planes within range to make sure each plane does not get near another plane, than we will not need air traffic controllers as we do today as each pilot will set his own route to where the plane is suppose to go, this will save fuel and time. But all planes must have the system.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis, Also 1 not used Humax Series 2 with a DVD burner
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 06:14 AM   #137
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
You just made my point for me. A computer could completely avoid an accident if it were being used in a controlled environment (i.e., dedicated roadways or isolated lanes occupied only with other computer-controlled vehicles). The computers would automatically maintain a safe distance and speed and eliminate the variables caused by human interaction. If you mix them into the mainstream traffic then all bets are off.
That's ideal, but impractical. It would either require all cars to be replaced or special roadways to be built specifically for autonomous cars. Neither of those is a viable option. Maybe someday we'll be able to phase in smart cars so that most/all cars on the road can communicate and do what you suggest, but currently our only option is to make cars smart enough that they can intermix with main stream traffic. Even if they can't avoid all accidents they would still reduce the number by simply taking the human out of the equation. The computer can be 100% accurate all the time. It knows exactly how hard to hit the breaks to avoid hitting the car in front of it which would prevent "panic breaking". It wont ever get tired, distracted or over correct because it get's startled. Having a computer driver wont make you completely safe, but it will make you safer then having a human behind the wheel.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 07:09 AM   #138
jcthorne
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Houston
Posts: 1,919
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
I can see it on side streets, but not a busy multi-lane highway during rush hour? I can't see how an automated car could possibly react quick enough with all the idiots driving on the Washington Beltway at breakneck speeds constantly switching lanes. The car could swerve to avoid one vehicle and end up in the path of another. Panic stops involving multiple rear end collisions are commonplace. The car could keep you from running into someone else but it can't keep the car behind you from plowing into you if you're stopped.

My point is, in order for automated vehicles to operate safely, they'd all have to function under the same parameters in a controlled environment (i.e., dedicated lanes). Mixing them in with regular drivers is a suicide mission. The car may be smart enough to avoid causing a collision, but there's no way it could possibly avoid every possible scenario involving other vehicles on a crowded thoroughfare.
Actually even the current autonomous cars do this BETTER than most drivers. They are fully aware of all vehicles around them, actually multiple lanes out, the rates and direction of travel and predication of future location several seconds out. One one of those does not conform to prediction, it already knows what the others are doing. This is exactly what human drivers do but on a much more limited basis.

Once autonomous cars can be proven safe and the risks of liability LESS than human drivers, insurance companies will trip over themselves to offer over priced full liability coverage for the cars. The issue of liability will be gone. And the issues of 'what happened' at a scene of an accident will be much easier to solve as the autonomous cars have very good record of what all cars in the vicinity were doing in the seconds prior to the crash. It will be the human driver cars at fault the large majority of the time.

They are not for me, I still refused to have a slush box for a transmission....and my favorite driver does not have cruise control, traction control, or any of the other nannies on board. But just as all of these technologies are now common place, so will be autonomous cars.
__________________
Current : Roamio Base with 2TB drive and 2 Premieres and a mini. OTA. kmttg, pyTivo, running with a 78TB Synology 1511 NAS....serving up the world.

Setup help for pytivo under windows:
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
jcthorne is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 07:47 AM   #139
mr.unnatural
Registered User
 
mr.unnatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,562
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
That's ideal, but impractical.
Agreed, which is why I don't see it happening in my lifetime and possibly not within the next 50 years.
mr.unnatural is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-26-2014, 11:09 AM   #140
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
You think the big problem with cars that have no steering wheel is parking on someone's lawn
Considering that driverless cars have been driving around for several years, including for a blind guy that uses the drive-through, you're clearly not thinking straight here. Yes, they will still have a manual mode and a steering wheel, but otherwise, they will be fully driverless, and will not require any human interaction to park in a legal parking spot.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
Considering that Game of Thrones is the most pirated show on TV, many would think otherwise.
Sure, all the good shows are pirated, although advocating piracy in order to have a crippled DVR that can't handle the full CableCard system is absurd...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
Have you seen the video of the blind guy "driving" the Google car? It takes him to the pharmacy and back without him ever touching the wheel.
The the drive-through. That was the coolest part!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
Think again about a parking garage in NYC (if you have ever used one). The various conditions to account for are almost unlimited in todays USA. A place like the The villages (in FL) if built new with this type of car in mind could work, maybe.
They will have manual modes, but valet parking makes no sense if the car can go and park itself somewhere without a human drive at all. I think it will take quite a while for the laws to allow cars to drive themselves without at least a sleep/drunk/high human "driver" plopped in the seat...

Quote:
Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
Sorry. Doesn't track. People still want access to their car when they need it. In fact, it could result in more cars on the road. No need for a designated driver and every kid could have his or her own car since they don't need to be able to drive themselves to use one.
The big challenge is deadhead parking moves. If cars start driving several miles to get a parking spot, it could have serious impacts on energy consumption and congestion. OTOH, if cars do short deadhead moves on private property, like to access a parking lot that's far away from a building, it would be pretty much universally beneficial.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
What you guys are discussing is basically just another version of a mass transit system.
No. We're talking about individuals owning their own self-driving cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
Google, BWM and others think you're wrong. The Google autonomous car can drive on regular streets and react to the actions of other cars and pedestrians. It's basically ready to go technology at this point. The problem is that the car with all the sensors would cost like $150K so it's a bit out of reach for most people. Plus the laws governing autonomous cars are not yet set. They have a limited license to drive them in CA and NV but they have to carry special insurance and it still requires someone to be behind the wheel "just in case".
The laws and legal aspects of it are really the only barriers, but you can be sure the insurance companies are on the side of self-driving cars, as they could cut the price of car insurance in half and still make far more money than they do now with a 90% reduction in accidents...

I think eventually insurance will phase out human-driven cars, as they will be too expensive to insure stupid humans. I'm seeing that reality occurring in 20-30 years, about 15-25 years after mainstream availability of self-driving cars.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
]It's accurate to with-in inches and doesn't ever panic.
Yeah, it's also a heck of a lot faster reacting to an event than a human driver. Humans take in some cases hundreds of ms to perceive, think, and react, a computer does it in a few ms. In fact, self-driving cars need far less distance between it and the car in front of it, because if the sensors see the distance narrowing between it and the car in front, within a few ms, the brakes will be applied. A human driver at that distance and speed would already have rear-ended the car in front of it...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
That's ideal, but impractical. It would either require all cars to be replaced or special roadways to be built specifically for autonomous cars.
Exactly. Autonomous cars as of a year or two ago had logged half a million miles with no driver interaction, and only one accident caused by a human driver. As they are today, driverless cars reduce accidents by 90%.
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 11:52 AM   #141
SWFan
Registered User
 
SWFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2002
Location: Kansas City, Missouri
Posts: 1,721
Quote:
Originally Posted by b_scott View Post
I think by 2018 everything will be IPTV anyway. So it'll be kind of moot.
In four years no way. Its easily doable today, but the overall industry feels it would be giving up control and thus they have been fighting it. By 2018 I expect them to still be fighting it with the same fervor exhibited today. Almost all the IPTV available today requires you to have an active cable or satellite subscription thus keeping you tied to the incumbent system.
__________________
XBox Live gamertag = dougcpa

Captain Kirk: "Once again we've saved civilization as we know it."
Dr. McCoy: "And the good news is they're not going to prosecute."
SWFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 12:16 PM   #142
NYHeel
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Posts: 1,257
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
Response time is moot when you have multiple vehicles trying to occupy the same space at the same time.

Case in point: Several years ago I was driving to work on the Baltimore beltway during rush hour in extremely heavy traffic. All of the traffic ahead of me came to a panic stop so I slammed on my brakes to avoid hitting the car in front of me. The car directly behind me was also able to stop in time, but the car behind him had to swerve to the left to avoid hitting him in the rear. In the process of avoiding him the driver hit a minivan coming up fast in the left lane. He bounced off the minivan and careened into me, taking out both the left front and rear fenders and both left side doors. I was sitting still at the time.

Now tell me, how is having a computer-controlled vehicle going to help in this situation? If it's being used in a controlled environment, such as dedicated lanes occupied by nothing but other similar vehicles, they could all interact with each other and completely avoid any such situations. The minute you add vehicles controlled by human drivers you allow chaos into the equation. Computers can only control the vehicle they're in. They have no control over the surrounding environment. They can monitor it and take evasive action when necessary, but that can only work up to a point. You still need room to maneuver a vehicle safely, whether controlled by a computer or by a human.

Now, a computer-controlled vehicle would strive to maintain a safe distance between the vehicle and any car in front of it. Problem is, if you try to do that on any busy highway with human drivers you're going to find that safe distance between you and the car in front of you will quickly become occupied by several other vehicles. Try it sometime and you'll see what I mean. Rule of thumb is to have one car length between you and the car ahead of you for every 10 miles per hour. Do that and you'll have anywhere from three to five cars filling that space in short order.
Actually this is the perfect scenario for a computer controlled car. The car that stopped late likely didn't react quickly enough to the brake lights of the car in front of him. The computer would have reacted faster and likely seen the breaking ahead faster.

As humans, we cause traffic and accidents based on the poor decisions we make on the roads. Computers can make optimal decisions that would improve traffic flow and minimize accidents. Highways are perfect for a computer controlled car. I'm more worried about local driving. That's where it would be difficult for the computer controlled car.
NYHeel is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 01:53 PM   #143
lessd
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: CT
Posts: 5,966
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYHeel View Post
Actually this is the perfect scenario for a computer controlled car. The car that stopped late likely didn't react quickly enough to the brake lights of the car in front of him. The computer would have reacted faster and likely seen the breaking ahead faster.

As humans, we cause traffic and accidents based on the poor decisions we make on the roads. Computers can make optimal decisions that would improve traffic flow and minimize accidents. Highways are perfect for a computer controlled car. I'm more worried about local driving. That's where it would be difficult for the computer controlled car.
That quick response is great on my radar controlled speed control as it will use the brakes when needed as the car in front of me slows down, my system craps out at about 25 to 30 MPH but I don't think it would be a big leap to bring that type of control down to 0 MPH, and have it operate when not using the speed control. This would prevent many rear end accidences, but still be far from a driverless car. We can and should make cars/trucks less accident prone, like the accident in NJ that put Tracy Morgan in critical condition.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis, Also 1 not used Humax Series 2 with a DVD burner
lessd is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 05:15 PM   #144
Dan203
Super Moderator
 
Dan203's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2000
Location: Nevada
Posts: 24,926
Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
That quick response is great on my radar controlled speed control as it will use the brakes when needed as the car in front of me slows down, my system craps out at about 25 to 30 MPH but I don't think it would be a big leap to bring that type of control down to 0 MPH, and have it operate when not using the speed control. This would prevent many rear end accidences, but still be far from a driverless car. We can and should make cars/trucks less accident prone, like the accident in NJ that put Tracy Morgan in critical condition.
That technology already exists in cars you can buy. There is also at least one car you can but that can drive completely autonomously in traffic on the freeway up to like 35mph. (I think it's a Lexus)

The technology of these autonomous cars is already making it's way into real vehicles, that's why I think it'll be a lot less then 50 years before we see completely autonomous cars on the roads.
__________________
Dan Haddix
Super Moderator
Developer for VideoReDo
Dan203 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 06:52 PM   #145
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,449
Yeah, we may see a mixture of holding the lane with DRCC first, where the driver would still need to manually drive on surface streets and on and off the highway, but whatever path we take, the fully self-driving car is coming, and coming fast.
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-29-2014, 07:55 PM   #146
telemark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 600
Quote:
Originally Posted by SWFan View Post
Almost all the IPTV available today requires you to have an active cable or satellite subscription thus keeping you tied to the incumbent system.
I recall a Comcast Exec being interviewed, saying they see the future with people paying for content through their Comcast bill. Idk the intricacies of their content agreements, but he sounded confident they were complicated enough that nobody else could obtain rights and calculate rev shares.

Didn't we see this during the last Olympics?

Now CSPAN too:
You'll soon need a cable account to sit and watch Cspan all day online

Last edited by telemark : 07-29-2014 at 09:29 PM.
telemark is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07-30-2014, 06:22 PM   #147
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,449
Quote:
Originally Posted by telemark View Post
I recall a Comcast Exec being interviewed, saying they see the future with people paying for content through their Comcast bill. Idk the intricacies of their content agreements, but he sounded confident they were complicated enough that nobody else could obtain rights and calculate rev shares.

Didn't we see this during the last Olympics?

Now CSPAN too:
You'll soon need a cable account to sit and watch Cspan all day online
Pretty much. Streaming video became a reality, but it is mostly tied to the MSO...
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 03:08 PM   #148
hansnuts
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 3
HELP with converter box Mediasonic HW-150PVR HomeWorx

Hi. Does anyone here have this digital converter box Mediasonic HomeWorx HW-150 PVR? If you do, were you able to use the IR Blaster to control it? I appreciate all the help and thanks in advance.
hansnuts is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Today, 06:29 PM   #149
aaronwt
HD Addict
 
aaronwt's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Northern VA(Woodbridge)
Posts: 13,884
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan203 View Post
That technology already exists in cars you can buy. There is also at least one car you can but that can drive completely autonomously in traffic on the freeway up to like 35mph. (I think it's a Lexus)

The technology of these autonomous cars is already making it's way into real vehicles, that's why I think it'll be a lot less then 50 years before we see completely autonomous cars on the roads.
Don't they need to change the laws first to allow it? And it better be rock solid. Because the first time it fails will probably be the last since people would be up in arms after that for the lawmakers allowing it on the streets.
__________________
Roamio Pro
TiVo Mini x4
Roamio Basic OTA
39TB unRAID1--53TB unRAID2--36TB unRAID3
XBL/PSN: WormholeXtreme
aaronwt is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 11:14 PM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |