TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Help Center
TiVo Community
Reply
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 11-07-2012, 09:37 AM   #31
wmhjr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 506
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyTango View Post
Sorry, not gonna happen. They are not going to devote significant resources to fix a problem - on an old platform - that affects very few people.
If you're saying they won't fix the technical defect, you're probably right.

If you're saying it will in the future affect a very few people, I think you are both wrong and presumptuous. People here often like to talk about how long they retain their equipment. If descriptive services continue to grow, this could easily affect a large percentage of people - many of whom have with trust paid for lifetime service.

If you're saying they wont "take care of their customers" in sy least some way (such as allowing transfer of lifetime subscription) then shame on me and all who endorse it.
wmhjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 10:15 AM   #32
lrhorer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Posts: 6,893
Please see my edit to my last post. I accidentally left out two words that make it almost insulting. It was not my intent.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
Well, we will have to disagree. Strongly. I have no interest whatsoever in ttg.
And I have none in MRV. It's quite inferior. 'No ability to edit the content, no means of delivery to other platforms, etc. Its only real advantages are speed and the ability to resume from a paused point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
I bought TiVo specifically because of mrv capability. The fact that you personally do not use mrv between series 4 and series 3 boxes is meaningless.
No more meaningless than your buying a DVR for its MRV capability. And I don't use MRV between any of the boxes. It is unavailable between the S3 and S4 boxes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
It is a core function that TiVo has marketed for a very long time, and far more than they ever marketed ttg.
It is not core functionality, it has not been available for all that long (it was introduced when the S2 was in production, and was not available for roughly the first year the S3 was in production). It is an auxilliary function available to those with multiple TiVos that do not have a CATV provider who locks down their programming. It is unavailable at least in part on perhaps 30% or more of TiVos. Of course, so is TTG, although TTG does not require the purchase of more than one TiVo.
lrhorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 10:28 AM   #33
lrhorer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Posts: 6,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
If you're saying they won't fix the technical defect, you're probably right.
It may not be possible to fix it on older hardware. If so, that's hardly TiVo's fault. If not, then I would say that is being overly cynical. After all, TiVo fixed the DST issue on S1 and S2 TiVos after both of those platforms had been abandoned, and they provided some updates for the S2s when everything went digital, which was even later.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
If you're saying it will in the future affect a very few people, I think you are both wrong and presumptuous. People here often like to talk about how long they retain their equipment. If descriptive services continue to grow, this could easily affect a large percentage of people
Yes, perhaps so. How long it will be before it is the case is another matter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
many of whom have with trust paid for lifetime service.
Oh, nonsense. First of all, most people who choose PLS do so because they know there is a good chance it will cost them less in the long run. Secondly, all that PLS represents is the full cost of the TiVo. A TiVo purchased on a MTM plan costs the consumer far, far less than it costs TiVo to produce it. MTM service is just a means of allowing the user to spread out the payments for the TiVo. It's not very much different from purchasing from a rent-to-buy place.
lrhorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 10:35 AM   #34
wmhjr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 506
Please let me be clear. I humbly suggest that you are an overly enthusiastic TiVo fan, rather than a typical usr. Frankly, the fact that TiVo speaks of the "mini" utterly destroys the idea that mrv is not core or critical. Ttg is not. Period.

Mrv (whether that be the admittedly inferior transfer process or Streaming, where tivo finally begins to catch up with the rest of the industry) is absolutely core to all providers. It has been heavily marketed. It has existed for years. It is no less core than multiple tuners. A serious mistake in TiVo development resulted in this defect.

Whether or not this affects you personally is a different topic.
wmhjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 11:09 AM   #35
WhiskeyTango
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: New Jersey
Posts: 5,777
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
If you're saying it will in the future affect a very few people, I think you are both wrong and presumptuous. People here often like to talk about how long they retain their equipment. If descriptive services continue to grow, this could easily affect a large percentage of people - many of whom have with trust paid for lifetime service.
I said nothing of the future, only present. I'm presumptuous? Your whole stance is based heavily on 'ifs' & 'coulds'. Face it, the S3's are old tech. As new tech changes, old tech becomes obsolete.
WhiskeyTango is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 01:36 PM   #36
wmhjr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 506
Ok, I'll go away. It seems obvious that defending TiVo is the only answer here. I find it ridiculous that ignoring this is endorsed by customers. So be it. It's ok to disagree, however I maintain that your position is presumptuous.
wmhjr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 05:54 PM   #37
steve614
what ru lookin at?
 
steve614's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,722
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrhorer View Post
After all, TiVo fixed the DST issue on S1 and S2 TiVos after both of those platforms had been abandoned,
Only because they had outside help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by lrhorer View Post
and they provided some updates for the S2s when everything went digital, which was even later.
Wasn't that mandated by the FCC? Maybe not.
Either way, I figure it was an easy fix. Tivos already had the capability to control cable boxes.
It was a minor software addition that went to customer good will.
__________________
The Man Prayer: I'm a man ...... I can change ...... If I have to ...... I guess.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

F*CK CANCER!
steve614 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 06:19 PM   #38
steve614
what ru lookin at?
 
steve614's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,722
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
I have not yet just because of time. I only got my second premier last night. I will likely try, however that will not have any real impact on the situation.
Please do. At the very least, we'll have a definitive answer whether the issue is with MRV or just S4 to S3 compatibility.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
Ok, I'll go away. It seems obvious that defending TiVo is the only answer here. I find it ridiculous that ignoring this is endorsed by customers. So be it. It's ok to disagree, however I maintain that your position is presumptuous.
Don't take it personally. As you can see, some people here are very opinionated.

If it's a hardware issue, there's nothing that can be done, but if it's a software issue only, I believe TiVo will fix it. I would think that there are still a lot of S3 Tivos in use on monthly subs.
When descriptive audio goes nationwide, the complaints will only increase.

Thing is, people need to know they have to complain to TiVo, not here on this forum.
I see you already took the next step I was going to recommend. Posting on TiVo's support forum. Looks like you already got a response.
__________________
The Man Prayer: I'm a man ...... I can change ...... If I have to ...... I guess.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

F*CK CANCER!
steve614 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 07:22 PM   #39
lrhorer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Posts: 6,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
Please let me be clear. I humbly suggest that you are an overly enthusiastic TiVo fan
If I am an overly enthusiastic TiVo fan, then why do I go to reasonably great lengths to point out the Premiere line is a pile of junk?

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
rather than a typical usr. Frankly, the fact that TiVo speaks of the "mini" utterly destroys the idea that mrv is not core or critical.
I fail to see how that is the case, since the Mini purportedly will not work with MRV (it can't if the Mini does not have a hard drive), nor can MRV be used on an un-modified TiVo on a wide variety of CATV systems, and the number is climbing almost daily. You talk about descriptive video becoming ubiquitous. I predict more than half the providers will be setting their CCI bytes to something other than 0x00 by the end of the decade.

I also predict that less than 30% of TiVo households will have a mini by Q1 2014. Even at that, it will be a very good revenue stream for TiVo, but hardly core. "Core" means it is employed by a vast majority of users, and that removing the functionality essentially destroys the general usefulness of the box. MRV not working is an extremely minor inconvenience for most users, and none at all for a significant number.

Oh, and just while we are at it, how long has TiVo been marketing (and selling the "Plus" upgrade version) of TiVo DeskTop? One heck of a lot more time than they have been selling the Mini.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
Ttg is not. Period.
Oh, yeah, that really proves your point.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
Mrv (whether that be the admittedly inferior transfer process or Streaming, where tivo finally begins to catch up with the rest of the industry) is absolutely core to all providers.
It is not catching up with the industry. It is just their only option. That it totally screws their users is beside the point, especially since so many users - like you - don't even seem to realize they were screwed.

MRV / MRS is the DVR equivalent of multiple cup holders on an SUV. There are some people that would actually base their decision on such a trivial aspect of a technology. Some of us are much more concerned about the performance of the platform as a whole and the far reaching implications of various implementations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
It has been heavily marketed. It has existed for years. It is no less core than multiple tuners. A serious mistake in TiVo development resulted in this defect.
This is just nonsense. It is not a defect. Please, however, go ahead. Spend four times as much as you should for a system that does half as much as it should and fails completely when one component goes out, at the same time basically locking you into the TiVo platform forever.

Quote:
Originally Posted by wmhjr View Post
Whether or not this affects you personally is a different topic.
But whether it affects you isn't?

Last edited by lrhorer : 11-07-2012 at 07:59 PM.
lrhorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 07:27 PM   #40
lrhorer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Posts: 6,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
Wasn't that mandated by the FCC? Maybe not.
I don't think so. I could be mistaken.

Quote:
Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
Either way, I figure it was an easy fix. Tivos already had the capability to control cable boxes.
It was a minor software addition that went to customer good will.
Both were easy fixes. This issue, if it can be fixed in software, will also be fairly simple. It's just a matter of selecting the correct audio stream. If that is locked in hardware, sayonara. I suspect not, but am not sure.

Last edited by lrhorer : 11-07-2012 at 07:46 PM.
lrhorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 07:30 PM   #41
lrhorer
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: San Antonio, Texas, USA
Posts: 6,893
Quote:
Originally Posted by WhiskeyTango View Post
I said nothing of the future, only present. I'm presumptuous? Your whole stance is based heavily on 'ifs' & 'coulds'. Face it, the S3's are old tech. As new tech changes, old tech becomes obsolete.
No doubt, but it is the Premiere that is obsolete. It was designed that way, at the insistence of the MPAA. (OK, CableLabs, but peel the skin on that onion...)
lrhorer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 10:18 PM   #42
todd_j_derr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posts: 173
TC CLUB MEMBER
ok, this thread seems to have turned into MRV (and I see there's another MRV thread), but I'm having this issue on a Premiere (Elite/XL4) with no MRV involved, similar to the initial reports.

I noticed it on a "Modern Family" (ABC) I taped a week ago and assumed someone somewhere just screwed up. But, just now, I caught it happening on live TV, again on ABC. If I hit right arrow and go down to the audio, the Dolby Symbol is not "on" (yellow), and it says:

The current audio track is: Spanish

This show does not have any alternate audio tracks.

And indeed, if I try to change the audio (which someone else said worked for them), my only option is "Play the standard audio". I tried changing stuff in Settings->Audio, not much there but the default language (English) and DD/PCM which makes no difference.

On my TV, using its QAM tuner from the same source (FIOS), it uses the "English" track by default, but I can change it to "Spanish" to get the descriptive track, the same as the Tivo.

The descriptions wouldn't be as annoying if the rest of the audio wasn't delayed too...
todd_j_derr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-07-2012, 11:11 PM   #43
unitron
Registered User
 
unitron's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: semi-coastal NC
Posts: 13,771
Judging by this

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Descriptive_Video_Service

and this

http://www.acb.org/adp/sap.html

and todd_j_derr's experience it appears the networks are putting this on the SAP channel, which seems odd, because I'd think that what's on there would ordinarily be heard instead of the regular audio, not in addition to to it, the way a blind person would want it. No point in getting a description of the action if you can no longer hear the dialogue.

And since TiVo's haven't previously been known to irreversibly add in the Spanish version to the English version when copying to PC or another TiVo, it doesn't make sense that it would suddenly start happening.

As far as I know the TiVo itself can't tell if someone is speaking in English or Spanish to be able to say "this alternate audio that I expected Spanish on is now in English so I'd better add it to the main audio".

It would be interesting to see what happens if someone affected went into the Settings menu and deliberately selected SAP to see what happens.


Maybe there's a clue here:

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...89#post8892289
__________________
(thisismysigfile)


"I am altering the deal. Pray I don't alter it any further."

Darth TiVo, 14 February, 2011
unitron is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-27-2012, 10:14 PM   #44
todd_j_derr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posts: 173
TC CLUB MEMBER
Quote:
Originally Posted by unitron View Post
Judging by this
and todd_j_derr's experience it appears the networks are putting this on the SAP channel,
As it says on that page "SAP" doesn't actually exist anymore for digital channels, but digital programs can be broadcast with multiple independent language audio tracks.

The problem in my case is there are two audio tracks for my ABC channel but the Tivo only recognizes one of them, and it's the Spanish one, which really carries the DVS audio. I know there are two because my TV recognizes both tracks if I use its internal tuner (*) - the "English" track is the normal track I'd expect and the "Spanish" track is the DVS track.

I'll note this does not happen on my CBS channel - on both Tivo and my TV I can see and select English and Spanish tracks.

Quote:
which seems odd, because I'd think that what's on there would ordinarily be heard instead of the regular audio, not in addition to to it, the way a blind person would want it. No point in getting a description of the action if you can no longer hear the dialogue.
I think the description is overdubbed onto the existing dialog in the studio, there's no mixing of tracks going on in the Tivo.

Quote:
It would be interesting to see what happens if someone affected went into the Settings menu and deliberately selected SAP to see what happens.
There's no such setting, at least not that I can find. The menu described here no longer exists. There's a similar menu to set the default language (SAP is not an option there, just actual languages), and if you press "Info" and cursor down there's also a menu to change languages there. The problem is, when I select that, there are no other languages to choose from.

FWIW, I did file a support case and they seemed to know what I was talking about and said they were going to escalate, but the 5-7 day response time they promised has passed, so I'll ping them again.

(*) I guess I don't know for 100% sure they're the same channel - it's possible that my cable company is broadcasting two copies of the ABC channel and what I see on my Tivo as Ch. 504 is not actually the same signal as what I see on my TV as Ch. 4-1. I can get the Tivo to show me the frequency it's tuned to (in diagnostics) but I can't get the same info out of my TV. That doesn't really make sense - it would just be a waste of bandwidth, but it is a possibility.
todd_j_derr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-29-2012, 02:02 AM   #45
todd_j_derr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posts: 173
TC CLUB MEMBER
Ok, despite the support reps telling me it was my problem and not theirs, apparently this is fixed in the latest update: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb....php?p=9399878

Looking back through the thread it looks like there are reports of this outside of WTAE/Pittsburgh, I'll be interested to hear if this fixes it for everyone.
todd_j_derr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-09-2012, 07:08 PM   #46
todd_j_derr
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jun 2000
Location: Pittsburgh, PA, USA
Posts: 173
TC CLUB MEMBER
Just wanted to confirm the latest update does resolve this issue - I can see both "English" and "Spanish" (which is really DVS) tracks and select between them, with Engish as the default. This is only for newly recorded (and live) shows, shows that were already recorded still show only "Spanish" as an option.

So, thanks to Tivo for fixing this.
todd_j_derr is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-11-2012, 06:55 PM   #47
UNOwens
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Posts: 5
Still doesn't fix the transferred files problem

Although the problem may be fixed for the TIVO itself, I've found that (some - most of the CBS lineup) TV show files transferred from the TIVO to a PC/Mac still have the descriptive audio problem, and that's not something that you can change twiddling with the TIVO settings.
I'm guessing that it still maybe a problem with the MRV people too?
UNOwens is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-12-2012, 05:48 PM   #48
Solana_Steve
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 27
Fixed?

Quote:
Originally Posted by todd_j_derr View Post
Just wanted to confirm the latest update does resolve this issue - I can see both "English" and "Spanish" (which is really DVS) tracks and select between them, with Engish as the default. This is only for newly recorded (and live) shows, shows that were already recorded still show only "Spanish" as an option.

So, thanks to Tivo for fixing this.
Hmmmm....I have the latest update, but on PBS recordings in San Diego, I still have the DVS on my recordings. How do I select between English and Spanish/DVS?

Thanks,

Steve
Solana_Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-13-2012, 12:56 AM   #49
Solana_Steve
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 27
Quote:
Originally Posted by SRHookEm View Post
On the FCC page, they say for TIVO users to push "info", look for the "DA" logo, scroll down with the remote and choose "OFF". Nope again. We have nothing like that in our set of menus on either TIVO box.
Thanks...that works for me. But I have to do this for every show individually...is there any way to do it by default?

Steve
Solana_Steve is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2013, 09:20 PM   #50
jjd_87
Registered User
 
jjd_87's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: WV
Posts: 488
All my Thursday night NBC show has this incredibly annoying descriptive audio on them. They were recorded on the Premiere 4 I am trying to watch them on. Switching to another audio track removes audio completely. Is there a fix for this? This basically ruins shows.
jjd_87 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:40 PM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |