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Old 12-09-2014, 09:47 AM   #211
telemark
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Ya, I need the output of those commands. So let's wait for that.

Formatting a drive is harmless though, you just have to start over again. I'll fix the directions on this point.

For large blocks of text, either email them to me, or use HIDE button:
Spoiler:
nothing to see here, move along


Last edited by telemark : 12-09-2014 at 09:55 AM.
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Old 12-09-2014, 11:24 AM   #212
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Sounds good.
Will send you the output from the commands you posted last night.
I only have 4 posts at the moment, so I can't send email to you from the forum. I will hide if output is too large

Last edited by melinda : 12-09-2014 at 11:56 AM.
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Old 12-09-2014, 05:36 PM   #213
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telemark View Post
I'm not sure I should recommend anything cause I was buying the cheapest I could find and hoping for the best. Nonetheless they worked for writing up to 4TB. So if that describes what you're looking for:

USB2 $4+$tax ( + $4 shipping )
http://www.frys.com/product/7526606

USB3 $13+$tax ( + $4 shipping )
http://www.frys.com/product/7996830
Thanks for this, I just ordered the USB3 one in preparation for my own upgrade, I found it a little cheaper on Amazon (free shipping with Prime.)

http://www.amazon.com/Hornettek-Tran....0+HDD+Adapter
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Old 12-09-2014, 06:22 PM   #214
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
Dinking around with wdidle3 to disable Intellipark on the Greens is probably the biggest factor, and if you don't mind doing that it will probably work fine.
Thanks for that. I'm ordering my upgrade ingredients now and plan to do the procedure on my Mac. For anyone else following along, I found instructions on how to run wdidle3 from a Mac, here:

http://www.xlr8yourmac.com/tips/Disa...eadParking.htm
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Old 12-09-2014, 07:41 PM   #215
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WD Red drives have their own tool to adjust Idle Mode 3 timeout period.

WD Red drives have their own tool to adjust Idle Mode 3 timeout.

Just as the wdidle3.exe tool is meant only for use on a short list of hard drives, none of which anybody would use in a TiVo (if they hope to succeed), the WD Red has it's own tool for this, and two versions exist at the moment. One is for 3.5" drives, and the other is for 2.5" drives. The proper tool can be found on WD's website product page for the drive you purchase.

Roamios have yet to have any issue, whatsoever, with the Idle Mode 3 settings, that plagued older TiVos. This matter should be a moot point for the purposes of this thread, since it's all Roamio related.

My usual through writeup:
Spoiler:
While I have yet to see a single report of wdidle3.exe bricking a drive, WD didn't leave the users of "plain green" and/or early AV-GP drives much choice, but to use the tool on them. They later started shipping the AV-GP drives set to fully disabled, while some early models, if set to disabled by wdidle3, would rack up an insane number of park counts (believed to be false counts), which can trigger a SMART failure notice/warning, if connected to certain host controllers, and/or tested with certain software. The remedy for this was to not disable the feature, but set it to 300 seconds, far longer than any TiVo would ever leave the drive idle.

If you buy a WD drive, of any type, I recommend checking the product page for that model on WD's website, for any associated tools intended for use on the drive you purchased. If it has a tool for changing the frequency of head parking, I suggest you stick to that tool, if you really feel you must mess with the factory setting.

A few fun facts:

1. Roamios have yet to have any issue, whatsoever, with the Idle Mode 3 settings, that plagued older TiVos. This matter should be a moot point for the purposes of this thread, since it's all Roamio related.

2. WD shipped some early models of the Red drives set to a minimal timeout period, worrying some who were seeing their RAID/NAS boxes rack up frequent head parkings. The worry is that at some point the drive will exceed the rated number, far too soon, and the excess parking can (in fact) cause early drive failure.

3. Rather than simply add the Red to the list of drives to use wdidle3.exe with and/or place a link to it, they made a new tool. When used, it sets the Reds to a 300 second timeout. Disabling parking is not an option with the new tool.

4. I am of the opinion, that if WD felt there were no issues with using the same tool and/or fully disabling parking, they would not have crafted a new tool, when wdidle3.exe seems to "work", for those who have tested it, like I have, with Red drives.

5. WD revisited their decision to use the frequent parking on Red drives, as the factory default, changing it to 300 seconds, not long after they announced Red drives getting NASware 3, and also started shipping the NW 2 drives with the 300 second setting.

6. The tool for Red drives will detect if the drive was shipped with the 300 second setting, and state "no update required", if that is the case.

7. I have been using the 300 second setting, no matter what the drive, the factory default, the tool used, or what I'm going to use the drive for. This has never once been an issue for me, and if a drive should wind up sitting idle for 300 seconds (5 minutes), I'd want it to enter Idle Mode 3 (platters spinning with heads parked off platters, and on the ramps).

8. Use of any WD tool on any WD drive not meant to have the tool used on it, can void the WD warranty (by the letter of the law/WD warranty T&C).

9. WD Purple drives have no WD-approved tool to adjust the same setting (But, I hear wdidle3.exe "works").

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Old 12-09-2014, 07:46 PM   #216
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Hi telemark,

I have run the commands you posted this morning.

Here are the results:

Spoiler:
dmesg | grep sd:
knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ dmesg | grep sd
[ 0.859939] sdhci: Secure Digital Host Controller Interface driver
[ 0.859941] sdhci: Copyright(c) Pierre Ossman
[ 0.859967] sdhci-pci 0000:03:09.1: SDHCI controller found [1180:0822] (rev 22)
[ 0.862286] wbsd: Winbond W83L51xD SD/MMC card interface driver
[ 0.862288] wbsd: Copyright(c) Pierre Ossman
[ 0.862501] sdhci-pltfm: SDHCI platform and OF driver helper
[ 1.210640] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] 625142448 512-byte logical blocks: (320 GB/298 GiB)
[ 1.210700] sd 0:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg0 type 0
[ 1.211176] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write Protect is off
[ 1.211187] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Mode Sense: 00 3a 00 00
[ 1.211325] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Write cache: enabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA
[ 1.252905] sda: sda1 sda2 sda3 sda4 < sda5 >
[ 1.253621] sd 0:0:0:0: [sda] Attached SCSI disk
[ 402.275324] sd 5:0:0:0: Attached scsi generic sg2 type 0
[ 402.275835] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] 7814037164 512-byte logical blocks: (4.00 TB/3.63 TiB)
[ 402.277595] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Write Protect is off
[ 402.277599] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Mode Sense: 31 00 00 00
[ 402.278083] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Write cache: enabled, read cache: enabled, doesn't support DPO or FUA
[ 402.298638] sdb: unknown partition table
[ 402.302083] sd 5:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI disk

-------------------

knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ hdparm /dev/sdb
/dev/sdb:
HDIO_DRIVE_CMD(identify) failed: Bad address
readonly = 0 (off)
readahead = 256 (on)
geometry = 486401/255/63, sectors = 7814037164, start = 0

----------------------

knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ hdparm -N /dev/sdb
/dev/sdb:
HDIO_DRIVE_CMD(identify) failed: Bad address

-------------------------

knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ lsusb
Bus 002 Device 002: ID 2109:0711
Bus 002 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 007 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 006 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 005 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 001 Device 002: ID 05a9:2640 OmniVision Technologies, Inc. OV2640 Webcam
Bus 001 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0002 Linux Foundation 2.0 root hub
Bus 004 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub
Bus 003 Device 002: ID 0483:2016 SGS Thomson Microelectronics Fingerprint Reader
Bus 003 Device 001: ID 1d6b:0001 Linux Foundation 1.1 root hub

-----------

knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ fdisk -l /dev/sdb
Disk /dev/sdb: 4000.8 GB, 4000787027968 bytes
255 heads, 63 sectors/track, 486401 cylinders, total 7814037164 sectors
Units = sectors of 1 * 512 = 512 bytes
Sector size (logical/physical): 512 bytes / 512 bytes
I/O size (minimum/optimal): 4096 bytes / 33553920 bytes
Disk identifier: 0x00000000

Disk /dev/sdb doesn't contain a valid partition table

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Old 12-09-2014, 08:09 PM   #217
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@nooneuknow:
Would a Roamio tuned to all non-channels eventually spin down?

@melinda:
Ya, that drive is reporting a size smaller than the image size being written.

Was it new when you got it? Do you have access to a computer with onboard Sata?

Either the enclosure is doing something not right, or the drive size needs a reset.
In either case you'll have an easier time using a native Sata interface.

Last edited by telemark : 12-09-2014 at 08:18 PM.
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:53 PM   #218
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Hi Telemark,

It looks like the problem was the enclosure all along.
After sending you the results from the commands you posted this morning,
I connected the same 4TB WD drive to a USB/SATA adapter I borrowed from a friend.
I successfully was able to upgrade the 4tb drive.

Thanks so much for all your help.
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Old 12-09-2014, 08:53 PM   #219
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telemark View Post
@nooneuknow:
Would a Roamio tuned to all non-channels eventually spin down?
I tested that exact scenario. Even a 2-tuner TiVo HD with the tuners "parked" on invalid channels would never park the drive, except if anything caused a "warm reboot", intentional, or not. The time that the older units spent reading the PROM, and letting the drive spin w/out activity, was where it would get parked, and there wasn't any ability in the PROM to unpark the drive. Cold boots worked, because the idle timer didn't start until the drive had spun up and reached ready status, which narrowed the window between the HDD being IO Ready and the handoff from the PROM to the HDD.

TiVos do check the drive firmware for the IM3 setting and attempt to change it at every boot. I got this information directly from a TiVo engineer, back in the TiVo HD days, when those with upgraded drives were wanted for inclusion in (things I have an open-ended NDA on).

So, there should be no way for a HDD to park, unless it is sent commands that would cause it to lose the volatile change to the setting (doesn't survive reboots, even if without power loss).

If you have a way to sniff the communications between the drive and TiVo, you should find this TiVo to HDD firmware dance happens on Premieres, once past the PROM to HDD handoff. Last time I looked at a Premiere's logs, the operation of this was logged, but not what firmware register it was checking, and changing, when applicable.

I can't say with 100% certainty that TiVo didn't strip that part out of the Roamio boot sequence, but can say I tried tuner parking my Roamios, with the drives set to the shortest allowable timeout, and have never seen any indication the drives parked. I went as far as checking RAW smart values (Yeah, I've been that OCD about TiVos and HDDs, that much, for that long).

It could be theoretically possible for a fault-condition to cause the drive to park the heads, in which case the TiVo should wind up either locked-up, or rebooting itself.

The only exceptions to all this are the SMART Extended Test and Offline Data Collection option within KS54. There, the TiVo waits 5 minutes to poll the drive's status, and can still end up running those two tests for days, without ever saying it fails to complete (gives the impression it is still running the tests).
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Old 12-09-2014, 09:09 PM   #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melinda View Post
Hi Telemark,

It looks like the problem was the enclosure all along.
After sending you the results from the commands you posted this morning,
I connected the same 4TB WD drive to a USB/SATA adapter I borrowed from a friend.
I successfully was able to upgrade the 4tb drive.

Thanks so much for all your help.
I have some enclosures that encrypt any drives I put in them (without stating they do so). They definitely would not work for such use, which is sad, since they are USB3. Of course, they were not meant to ever have the drives that came in them ever taken-out, even though it was very easy to do so.

It sounds like your enclosures have a USB<->SATA bridge chip that does encryption, or otherwise marries the drive to it, rendering it unusable, without wiping at least some small part the bridge writes, or something to that effect.

I have some other USB2 enclosures (low-end WD Essentials line), very hard to open, made by WD, also not intended for swapping. But, they don't encrypt, and allow me to do things like what you were trying to do.

Because self-encrypting capable enclosures are a selling-point to many, and not all are clear about if they do/don't, I tend to use USB drive "docks" for any TiVo drive work, not done via direct SATA (the kind with the drives sticking up, exposed, with eject buttons).

Happy to hear you achieved success!
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Old 12-09-2014, 11:23 PM   #221
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Loaner USB<->Sata bridge / adapter

I think I'll start an offer to lend out a tested / working USB-Sata adapter.
$10 would cover round trip shipping.
I just see this coming up a lot for others who are not as CLI savvy, and starting them off right will save everyone time.

I'll agree with nooneuknow. Enclosures are more likely (than adapters and docks) to do funny unexpected things due to assuming the drive is never leaving.

@melinda: could you compact the prior debugging output now that we know what it is. And optionally add the model of the adapter that works. Not everyone is as smart & resourceful as you so Congratulations..

@Fofer: I wouldn't expect wdidle kind of utilities to work over USB, but I'd love to be wrong on that.

Last edited by telemark : 12-10-2014 at 12:18 AM.
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Old 12-10-2014, 12:18 AM   #222
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I think I'll start an offer to lend out a tested / working USB-Sata adapter.
$10 would cover round trip shipping.
I just see this coming up a lot for others who are not as CLI savvy, and starting them off right will save everyone time.

I'll have to agree with nooneuknow. Enclosures are more likely (than adapters and docks) to do funny unexpected things due to assuming the drive is never leaving.

@melinda: could you compact the prior debugging output now that we know what it is. And optionally add the model of the adapter that works. Not everyone is as smart & resourceful as you so Congratulations..

@Fofer: I wouldn't expect wdidle kind of utilities to work over USB, but I'd love to be wrong on that.
Don't sound so happy about agreeing with me.

On wdidle3.exe over USB<->SATA bridges, it has never worked through anything other than a direct drive<->controller connection. That's the part that made having to use wdidle3.exe the point many gave up on DIY, before the Roamio came along, and didn't require anybody to have to do that step. Before, it was that, or buy an AV-GP, where you'd know parking was factory disabled.

The newer tool for the Reds can run within Windows, Linux, and via boot CD, but I can't recall if it works across USB-SATA bridges, or will work with drives that are not Reds.

I still have my suspicions that the newer Red tool can do more than it's stated purpose, if fed the right syntax (or with some code tweaking). But, that's your dept, rather than mine. Drop me an email, if you don't still have the links for the different versions.
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Old 12-10-2014, 06:40 PM   #223
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The newer tool for the Reds can run within Windows, Linux, and via boot CD, but I can't recall if it works across USB-SATA bridges, or will work with drives that are not Reds.
I have never gotten wd5741 to work in a dock (USB or eSATA).
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Old 12-10-2014, 07:14 PM   #224
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I have had no problems running wd5741 against three different Red drives using a USB adapter (Vantec Nexstar adapter).
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Old 12-11-2014, 07:36 AM   #225
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I have had no problems running wd5741 against three different Red drives using a USB adapter (Vantec Nexstar adapter).
I found like 8 adapters from Vantec. And more docks than I want to count. More details?

Quote:
Originally Posted by noonueknow
Don't sound so happy about agreeing with me.
Sorry, just an expression. Caught it before you posted but after you noticed.
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Old 12-11-2014, 08:54 AM   #226
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Originally Posted by telemark View Post
I think I'll start an offer to lend out a tested / working USB-Sata adapter.
$10 would cover round trip shipping.
I just see this coming up a lot for others who are not as CLI savvy, and starting them off right will save everyone time.

I'll agree with nooneuknow. Enclosures are more likely (than adapters and docks) to do funny unexpected things due to assuming the drive is never leaving.

@melinda: could you compact the prior debugging output now that we know what it is. And optionally add the model of the adapter that works. Not everyone is as smart & resourceful as you so Congratulations..

@Fofer: I wouldn't expect wdidle kind of utilities to work over USB, but I'd love to be wrong on that.
Why not just have a link to where it can be purchased?
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Old 12-11-2014, 09:48 AM   #227
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telemark already did that, earlier in the thread. Links to a USB 2 version as well as USB 3 version, to purchase from Fry's. I linked to the same models being sold by Amazon.com, just above.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...6#post10336986
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Old 12-11-2014, 12:44 PM   #228
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@Fofer: I wouldn't expect wdidle kind of utilities to work over USB, but I'd love to be wrong on that.
Good to know, thanks for mentioning that. I'm also doing the upgrade on my Mac (thanks to your efforts) and I wonder how that would affect things. I have no internal optical drive and would be booting from an external CD (or using Parallels VM.)

Anyway, the confirmed-to-be-working USB-Sata adapter and drive are on the way. To keep things simple I ended up just going with the 4TB WD40EURX, so I don't need to fiddle with wdidle (heh) to turn off the idle timeout.

An an aside, AmEx has a deal now through 12/31 that gives me $25 back on a $200 purchase at NewEgg, so I added a Playstation Plus renewal to my order in order to meet the requirement.

Looking forward to putting it all together. Much thanks, again.
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Old 12-11-2014, 01:43 PM   #229
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Good to know, thanks for mentioning that. I'm also doing the upgrade on my Mac (thanks to your efforts) and I wonder how that would affect things. I have no internal optical drive and would be booting from an external CD (or using Parallels VM.)
No Linux boot for Mac. Just boot Mac OS, which is close enough to Unix underneath.
Then load a terminal and go. So no CD's nor Parallels either.
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Old 12-11-2014, 03:29 PM   #230
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I found like 8 adapters from Vantec. And more docks than I want to count. More details?
VANTEC CB-SATAU3-6 NexStar SATA 6Gbps to USB 3.0 Adapter - 2.5"/3.5"/5.25"/SSDs

I got mine on sale at Newegg a couple of years ago for ~$20.

ETA:

At Newegg: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16812232033

At Vantec: http://www.vantecusa.com/en/product/view_detail/471

While the description says "Works with up to 3TB drives" It is working without issue with 4TB for me (4TB WD Reds, 4TB WD AV). I suspect that Vantec spec'd it at 3TB because that was the largest drive size available when first it released for sale.

I guess I was a bit naive about this. The Vantec has always worked for me and I just assumed other manufacturer's adapters worked as well. I did not realize others were having issues.

For those who care: My personal PC is nothing special, i7 2.6 quad core in an Asus P6T board, Win 7 x64, 12GB, USB2. Also tested with Knoppix for 4TB Roamio upgrade using telemark's script.
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Old 12-11-2014, 04:56 PM   #231
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VANTEC CB-SATAU3-6 NexStar SATA 6Gbps to USB 3.0 Adapter - 2.5"/3.5"/5.25"/SSDs. I got mine on sale at Newegg a couple of years ago for ~$20.
Link to the actual product on Newegg's website, please? It can be found in your newegg order history. I feel it is best to provide links, if we are going to recommend something, in order to help eliminate human error. Even just a link to the mfg website for it would help. But, ideally, both would be best. I could have posted the links I found, based on your post. But, it really should come from the person who tested it.

All the details matter, such as OS you used, and maybe just a little bit about the type of PC you used it on, and if you were using a 64-bit or 32-bit OS. Don't be shy about the exact drives you used it on, either.

A new thread on the matter is likely to come soon. The parameters/details those discussing the subject split would like to see, are being discussed, in a private group email amongst a few of those passionate about these things.
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Old 12-11-2014, 06:41 PM   #232
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No Linux boot for Mac. Just boot Mac OS, which is close enough to Unix underneath.
Then load a terminal and go. So no CD's nor Parallels either.
Thanks for that, but just to clarify I was talking about if I had to use WDidle3 on my Mac to disable head parking for the drive I bought, and the instructions I found were talking about burning an ISO disk to boot from.

But the recommended drive I ended up choosing doesn't need that so the point is moot. Counting down the days till all the ingredients arrive, and then I will upgrade and set up my new Roamio. Woo hoo!
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Old 12-12-2014, 02:34 PM   #233
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Thanks for that, but just to clarify I was talking about if I had to use WDidle3 on my Mac to disable head parking for the drive I bought, and the instructions I found were talking about burning an ISO disk to boot from.
USB on Dos is beyond my expertise. But in theory, once you boot DOS on a mac, it's just like a PC.

On Virtualization, most allow taking over a USB device so again, what works on a PC would work on virtualization.
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Old 12-12-2014, 03:20 PM   #234
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USB on DOS requires special drivers to load on boot.
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Old 12-16-2014, 09:22 PM   #235
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Quote:
Originally Posted by telemark View Post

@melinda: could you compact the prior debugging output now that we know what it is. And optionally add the model of the adapter that works. Not everyone is as smart & resourceful as you so Congratulations..
@telemark:
I have hidden the large debugging info in my previous posts.
(I'm guessing that is what you mean by compacting the debugging output).
I no longer have the usb/sata adapter, but I can find out the model from my friend and post it here.
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Old 12-17-2014, 12:22 AM   #236
imsai
Budding tivohead
 
Join Date: Dec 2014
Location: Sandy Eggo
Posts: 1
Image does not install on Hitachi HGST DKSAF400?

I tried to install the TCF 4tb image on a HGST Coolspin D5KSAF400 with a Knoppix 7 LiveCD, with no luck.
Any ideas?
I'm fairly new to the forum, but already have 2 S3 OLEDs with 1.7TB onboard each, use pyTivo and readynas archiving, and am working with the new version of kmttg. Hoping for some inspiration.
Drive specs:
Size 4TB
7,814,037,168 sectors
16383/16/63 CHS

Here's what my terminal session said:
<snip>
2014-12-16 20:25:27 (148 MB/s) - `autoinstall.pl' saved [4322/4322]

knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ sudo chmod +x autoinstall.pl
knoppix@Microknoppix:~$ sudo ./autoinstall.pl
ls: cannot access /dev/hd?: No such file or directory
sda:
4096 bytes received - rejected -

sdb:
[ 3.191066] sd 6:0:0:0: [sdb] Attached SCSI removable disk
0 bytes received - rejected -

sdc:
[ 3.193443] sd 6:0:0:1: [sdc] Attached SCSI removable disk
0 bytes received - rejected -

sdd:
[ 3.195318] sd 6:0:0:2: [sdd] Attached SCSI removable disk
0 bytes received - rejected -

sde:
[ 3.196568] sd 6:0:0:3: [sde] Attached SCSI removable disk
0 bytes received - rejected -

sdf:
0 bytes received - rejected -

sdg:
0 bytes received - rejected -

sdh:
[ 1.774265] sdhci: Secure Digital Host Controller Interface driver
[ 1.774266] sdhci: Copyright(c) Pierre Ossman
0 bytes received - rejected -

ERROR: No Target Drive Found.
knoppix@Microknoppix:~$
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Old 12-17-2014, 05:30 AM   #237
telemark
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 854
Either the Tivo signature is missing (data on drive)
or the drive itself is missing (not connected, incompatible SATA hardware).

Did you prep the drive by booting it in the Roamio?
If not, do that.

If so, then post the output of:
dmesg | grep sd
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