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Old 11-24-2012, 11:50 AM   #121
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Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs View Post
Sometimes it can be difficult to sort out all the crazy talk that's going on...
LOL there is something crazy about all the laws of physics being defied on a TV show then people debating it here? Say it ain't so!
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Old 11-24-2012, 04:50 PM   #122
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An amplifier is anything that amplifies power. It doesn't have to be an audio signal. Amplifying the output of the pendent to increase it's range actually makes sense. Well as much sense as anything else on this show.
The point I was trying to make is that the amplifier uses power to amplify the signal it was being fed. When there is no power other than the "signal" itself, how do you amplify? The amulet is producing power, and is the only source of power around. How can it amplify itself?
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:00 PM   #123
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The point I was trying to make is that the amplifier uses power to amplify the signal it was being fed. When there is no power other than the "signal" itself, how do you amplify? The amulet is producing power, and is the only source of power around. How can it amplify itself?
...um, because it's a source of power AND an amplifier? I'm just sayin'....
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:05 PM   #124
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The amulet is producing power, and is the only source of power around. How can it amplify itself?
Is it producing it's own power, or just allowing electricity to work in side it's bubble? The iPhone and Walkman had batteries.. The light house, I'm assuming, had a battery backup. So technically the amulet could have just canceled out whatever was blocking them from working. If the mom was a huge Nikolas Tesla fan then maybe I could be on board with the idea it made it's own power. If she's an Thomas Edison fan then no.
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Old 11-24-2012, 05:08 PM   #125
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Is it producing it's own power, or just allowing electricity to work in side it's bubble? The iPhone and Walkman had batteries.. The light house, I'm assuming, had a battery backup. So technically the amulet could have just canceled out whatever was blocking them from working. If the mom was a huge Nikolas Tesla fan then maybe I could be on board with the idea it made it's own power. If she's an Thomas Edison fan then no.
Finally, someone on my side!

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Old 11-24-2012, 11:51 PM   #126
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The point I was trying to make is that the amplifier uses power to amplify the signal it was being fed. When there is no power other than the "signal" itself, how do you amplify? The amulet is producing power, and is the only source of power around. How can it amplify itself?
Not ALL amplifiers use power to amplify. Those solar lights made with a water bottle are amplifying light using water and a tin can on a string amplifies sound waves by transmitting them through a solid instead of through air.

Now I'll grant that the idea of an ELECTRICAL amplifier that does not draw additional power seems unlikely but I don't think it's the stupidest part of the whole blackout phenomenon.
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Old 11-25-2012, 12:48 AM   #127
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Those solar lights made with a water bottle are amplifying light using water and a tin can on a string amplifies sound waves by transmitting them through a solid instead of through air.
I don't know what solar lights you are talking about, but a tin can on a string definitely does NOT amplify sound waves (or anything else). Actually, it is an attenuator, since the conversion and transmission processes are lossy.
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Old 11-25-2012, 11:41 AM   #128
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Not ALL amplifiers use power to amplify. Those solar lights made with a water bottle are amplifying light using water and a tin can on a string amplifies sound waves by transmitting them through a solid instead of through air.
Not exactly, the "lights" made with water bottle just spread the same amount of light out. When a hole is made in the roof, the sunlight would make one very bright spot. By putting a full water bottle's neck in the hole, the light spreads out, so it is a dimmer level of light spread over a larger area. The tin cans and string work on the opposite principle, if someone just talks into the air it spreads out over a larger area. So there is a distance where it can't be heard. The tin can and string concentrate a large part of the sound energy on the string and so it can go further than directly in the air. However the longer the string the less sound that gets to the other end. So there is a point where it can't be heard that way either.

But in both cases there is no amplification of the energy, just changes in the way it is applied.
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Old 11-26-2012, 01:56 AM   #129
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That's one of the reasons I'm hoping against hope that everything she said was a lie.
We don't know exactly what Rachel told Monroe, but if she didn't want him to know that something was actively suppressing electricity, but instead think that whatever it was was a one-time event that permanently altered things, then explaining the pendants as power generators is the only thing that would fit her story. So if she was lying, that could be why she did.

On the other hand, a generator is nothing more than something that converts energy from one form to another. So if The Event (not to be confused with The Event's Event ) caused electric power to be converted from a usable form of energy to an unusable one, then it's possible that these pendants run off of the unusable energy and use that to produce the usable form. So in that case, they could be considered generators.

Perhaps that was the flaw with the original experiment. They were trying to find a way to get either free energy and/or wireless electricity, but it was only available in an alternate form that could only be created by disabling all regular usage.
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Old 11-26-2012, 10:58 AM   #130
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The big issue is that amulet actually STARTED the generator in the lighthouse.....that's crazy
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Old 11-26-2012, 11:58 AM   #131
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The big issue is that amulet actually STARTED the generator in the lighthouse.....that's crazy
I never even thought twice about that, my logic was that the generator was turned on to "start mode" and since electricity wasn't able to flow, the starter never turned, when the amulet went "live" and electricity around it started flowing again, the starter started the generator, and TADAH the light shined.

At least that's my take away from the whole deal, granted I'm assuming a few facts not in evidence, but with that as my baseline I'm ok with the show.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:38 PM   #132
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I was just thinking that this ep was an expensive, hour long ad for iTunes.
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Old 11-26-2012, 12:45 PM   #133
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This series is slightly disappointing to me. Lets see, every episode, get captured then escape. The characters are good except Charlie. How about using the bow and arrow instead of just carrying it? And does she ever change clothes? Does she ever wash or shower? ;-) She needs to be much more bad-ass with the bow.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:00 PM   #134
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I never even thought twice about that, my logic was that the generator was turned on to "start mode" and since electricity wasn't able to flow, the starter never turned, when the amulet went "live" and electricity around it started flowing again, the starter started the generator, and TADAH the light shined.

At least that's my take away from the whole deal, granted I'm assuming a few facts not in evidence, but with that as my baseline I'm ok with the show.
but don't generators either need to be pull started or "turned over" to get to run. I understand the turnin on an ipad or other device but an engine seems different to me, one that requires a manual step.
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Old 11-26-2012, 03:05 PM   #135
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On the other hand, a generator is nothing more than something that converts energy from one form to another. So if The Event (not to be confused with The Event's Event ) caused electric power to be converted from a usable form of energy to an unusable one, then it's possible that these pendants run off of the unusable energy and use that to produce the usable form. So in that case, they could be considered generators.
So where is this "unusable energy" coming from? That brings back the issue that the power plants are not running after 15 years, so what would be supplying this "unusable energy" for the amulets to convert their energy from?

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Old 11-26-2012, 03:08 PM   #136
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The big issue is that amulet actually STARTED the generator in the lighthouse.....that's crazy
Yeah, that wouldn't have happened that way in the real world. Just like the CD player wouldn't have started by itself, or the iPhone come on by itself. Someone would have to push the power buttons on things like that. Rachel's CD player where she was building the "amplifier" that started by itself when she was showing the range of the amulet. CD players don't work that way.

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Old 11-26-2012, 03:12 PM   #137
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I never even thought twice about that, my logic was that the generator was turned on to "start mode" and since electricity wasn't able to flow, the starter never turned, when the amulet went "live" and electricity around it started flowing again, the starter started the generator, and TADAH the light shined.
A stand by generator, like the one in a light house is usually configured to auto-start upon power failure, so I can somewhat see how it might automatically start up when the amulet is powering the battery/starter system, but how do you explain how the electricity from the generator got 100 feet up in the air to light the bulb? If electricity is inhibited everywhere except within the 9-10 foot radius of the amulet, how did the generator's current get up that probably 100 foot wire to light the lighthouse bulb? That's a direct violation of the show's own explanation of how things work with the amulet.

And, like I mentioned in a previous post, if the amulet can start a big generator, why can't it run a car engine, as Rachel said it couldn't. Maybe it can and she's was lying when she told Monroe that to give her a justification to build her "amplifier"?

Dave

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Old 11-26-2012, 03:26 PM   #138
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This series is slightly disappointing to me. Lets see, every episode, get captured then escape. The characters are good except Charlie. How about using the bow and arrow instead of just carrying it? And does she ever change clothes? Does she ever wash or shower? ;-) She needs to be much more bad-ass with the bow.
How does a girl who grew up in a rural setting in an very simple society, who probably ran around bare footed a lot of the time growing up, walk perfectly in a pair of really spiked high heels like she did a few episodes back? I doubt she had much need for such a skill in her activities at home.

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Old 11-26-2012, 07:35 PM   #139
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So one person is standing on a mine. You've disarmed it to the best of your knowledge. Before said person steps off mine and runs, shouldn't everyone else get way-the-hell away?

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Yeah....I love how the turncoat agent only hit his revolutionary companions and not the main characters (except sorta almost Charlie).
Or why did he even have to shoot up anybody. Wouldn't it have been easier to have some excuse about "you all stay here, Miles and I are going to scout this area" then lock them in "accidentally".
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Old 12-06-2012, 06:53 PM   #140
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I definitely didn't see the heart stab coming and neither did the other scientist. I did wonder how he knew it was a bomb just by looking at it. I guess she didn't hide the dynamite fuse well enough.
I don't understand why the other scientist didn't agree that it was an amplifier instead of ratting her out. I get that he hates her but surely he hates Monroe more. It would be in his best interest for her to build her bomb and kill Monroe. Then he and his kid can leave, too.
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Old 12-06-2012, 09:03 PM   #141
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I don't understand why the other scientist didn't agree that it was an amplifier instead of ratting her out. I get that he hates her but surely he hates Monroe more. It would be in his best interest for her to build her bomb and kill Monroe. Then he and his kid can leave, too.
My guess would be that he has been "broken" and "brainwashed" and is now loyal to Monroe. And, Monroe still has his daughter in captivity.

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Old 12-07-2012, 12:34 PM   #142
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I think Monroe already had a pretty good idea that it wasn't really an amplifier and had communicated that to Jaffe. So if Jaffe then went in there and tried to lie to Monroe, he and his daughter would be in an even worse situation.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:27 PM   #143
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So...not to stir anything up, but it suddenly occurred to me that there's kinda a big gap in Revolution.

What do they eat?

They show the main Scoobies trekking through the landscape with scant supplies and occasionally perched scenically around a cute campfire. In the first couple episodes they showed some nice pioneer-like agriculture in the small communities and farmers markets in the major cities. Mosty, though, the Scoobies have been hiking past ruins.

Pre-industrial revolution societies require a LOT of work just for food production. We won't even go into how Monroe is feeding his militia without the modern food transportation network (and refrigeration!!). But the main little band of adventurers seem to be putting no work whatsoever into feeding themselves and yet they don't seem to be hungry enough for it to interfere with their Epic Quest.

I know Lost made a point of showing that food on the Island was readily available (and after the first season, PROCESSED food was readily available). But here it is yet another thing that has gotten handwaved away in favor of this boring plot.
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Old 12-10-2012, 02:34 PM   #144
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So...not to stir anything up, but it suddenly occurred to me that there's kinda a big gap in Revolution.

What do they eat?

They show the main Scoobies trekking through the landscape with scant supplies and occasionally perched scenically around a cute campfire. In the first couple episodes they showed some nice pioneer-like agriculture in the small communities and farmers markets in the major cities. Mosty, though, the Scoobies have been hiking past ruins.

Pre-industrial revolution societies require a LOT of work just for food production. We won't even go into how Monroe is feeding his militia without the modern food transportation network (and refrigeration!!). But the main little band of adventurers seem to be putting no work whatsoever into feeding themselves and yet they don't seem to be hungry enough for it to interfere with their Epic Quest.

I know Lost made a point of showing that food on the Island was readily available (and after the first season, PROCESSED food was readily available). But here it is yet another thing that has gotten handwaved away in favor of this boring plot.
I don't know what they're eating, but now that you mention it, I haven't noticed any squirrels running around. Coincidence?
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:15 PM   #145
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So...not to stir anything up, but it suddenly occurred to me that there's kinda a big gap in Revolution.

What do they eat?
This reminds me that Gregg Easterbrook of ESPN.com complained about this and other aspects of "Revolution" in his column last week, in a section that was headlined "Electricty May Fail, But Lip Gloss Is Forever." It's a bit too long to cut and paste here -- this should be a link directly to that portion -- the rest of the column is more or less about football, so you can safely ignore it.
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Old 12-10-2012, 03:29 PM   #146
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If there was a 24 hour Revolution channel, then I'd be upset they are not addressing food (and a ton of other issues).
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Old 12-10-2012, 04:57 PM   #147
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If there was a 24 hour Revolution channel, then I'd be upset they are not addressing food (and a ton of other issues).
I have no problem with them skipping over the other banal aspects of life (like sleep and toileting) but their premise is a large enough of a disruption to the usual supply chain that it is something that will fairly quickly become critical enough to be a major plot point. Wars have been won or lost simply due to the availability of food
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Old 12-10-2012, 05:09 PM   #148
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This reminds me that Gregg Easterbrook of ESPN.com complained about this and other aspects of "Revolution" in his column last week, in a section that was headlined "Electricty May Fail, But Lip Gloss Is Forever." It's a bit too long to cut and paste here -- this should be a link directly to that portion -- the rest of the column is more or less about football, so you can safely ignore it.
Thank you! Yes, that article articulates it well!

I have only two complaints:

One---he brings up excellent points I hadn't considered (like his discussion of the horrible militia tactics).

Two---weirdly enough, I am fairly confident I could produce lip gloss form scratch without any need for electrical power.
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