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Old 05-16-2014, 08:28 PM   #91
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Originally Posted by atmuscarella View Post
So based on my personal experience, preferences, and value I place on video consumption, I find it laughable that anyone believes you "need" a cable/satellite sub to have access to enough video content.
Your premesis is entirely wrong. You're just looking at the quantity, or the amount of variety available. That's irrelevant. No one watches even 1 percent of the video available on cable, or even on any of the big streaming services.

It's about what that content is. There are two main areas where I have to have cable to get the content that I want.

The first is basketball, where last season I needed ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, SNY, CBSSports, BTN, TBS, TNT, TruTV, and of course CBS to follow my teams as well as other teams I was interested in watching. Also, 3 of the 4 Olympics channels were cable channels.

The second is HBO. More of my weekly TV consumption is now coming from HBO than from anywhere else, and their programming is absolutely second to none.

I also have roommates, and between all of us, we watch football, NCAA mens and women's basketball, hockey, and baseball, and all of us watch HBO.

HBO and Sports each have people tied to cable, and the combination is extremely powerful. It is kind of weird though, how we have this big gap in the middle where there are very few good cable channels anymore, with PBS and HBO sort of bookending the lineup, with some sports and news (including Comedy Central for news) sprinkled in the middle.

I hate the business model, but on a dollar for dollar basis, compared to other sources of video entertainment, cable is a pretty darn good deal if you break out the per-show or per-hour price you're paying.
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Old 05-17-2014, 09:19 AM   #92
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I just wish I didn't have to subsidize those sports channels. Since they cost the most and the majority of people don't watch them.
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Old 05-17-2014, 12:28 PM   #93
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Your premesis is entirely wrong. ......
How do you know that where he lives is "entirely wrong", have you ever been there?
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Old 05-17-2014, 09:58 PM   #94
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I just wish I didn't have to subsidize those sports channels. Since they cost the most and the majority of people don't watch them.
The vast majority of people follow at least one sport, some several, so most people want those channels. Sports have been a major driver for DirecTV for quite some time.

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How do you know that where he lives is "entirely wrong", have you ever been there?
Whoops. Good catch. His premise is all wrong.
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Old 05-18-2014, 04:39 PM   #95
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Sure many people watch a channel or two but the vast majority of people don't come close to even watching all the ESPN channels. Let alone the dozens of other sports networks.
Of course ESPn is the main offender since their channels cost so much.

Personally I only on occasion watch the main one. Yet I have no choice but to pay for the rest. I'm not even sure I've met any one that watches all of the ESPN channels. If people could pick and choose the channels they watch, things would change drastically. Especially for the sports channels since they could no longer be subsidized by all the people that don't watch them. They would need to charge a lot more per subscriber to get the same amount of income
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Old 05-19-2014, 04:53 PM   #96
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Sure many people watch a channel or two but the vast majority of people don't come close to even watching all the ESPN channels. Let alone the dozens of other sports networks.
Of course ESPn is the main offender since their channels cost so much.

Personally I only on occasion watch the main one. Yet I have no choice but to pay for the rest. I'm not even sure I've met any one that watches all of the ESPN channels. If people could pick and choose the channels they watch, things would change drastically. Especially for the sports channels since they could no longer be subsidized by all the people that don't watch them. They would need to charge a lot more per subscriber to get the same amount of income
If you follow a particular team, especially an NCAA basketball team, you get thrown all over the place. This past year, not counting overlap moves to ESPNNews or ESPN Classic, National Champions UConn were on SNY, ESPN, ESPN2, ESPNU, CBSSports, BTN, CBS, and March Madness was on ESPN and ESPN2 for women and TNT, TruTV, TBS, and CBS for the men's. UConn is on ESPN/SNY primarily, since the American's contract is owned by ESPN, although some conferences either have their own channel (like BTN), or are with CBSSports. No matter which network owns your conference's contract, you're on some cable channel.

Add in the Olympics with NBCSports, MSNBC, and CNBC, in addition to NBC, and you've covered quite a bit.

ESPN is absurdly overpriced, however, they have the highest standards for the quality of their broadcasts, and they put a ton of money into buying the rights and producing the broadcasts.

What I hate more are the hundreds of garbage channels. Even formerly good channels like History and Discovery are garbage now. MTV doesn't do much with music, and on down the line. Outside sports and news, there is almost nothing decent left in the middle of the lineup, it's all either PBS or HBO these days...
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Old 05-19-2014, 11:45 PM   #97
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It was the reply I thought your post deserved as I had already made my arguments to the contrary for my specific viewing habits. Your antiquated assertions do not resemble the current landscape, and you do not seem interested in learning that times have changed. It is no longer 1999.

It is not my job to disabuse you. If you are happy paying what you do for what you have, I would not attempt to convince you otherwise. My purpose here is to focus on improving the value proposition for my wife and myself. Thanks for your feedback in any case.

Ted
I haven't read any contrarian arguments from you.

I'm all for you and everyone else including myself finding the best deal for the content they watch. IF that includes or only includes OTA and streaming then I'm all for it.

All I did was point out that your (and many others) generalization about cable costing you more because you pay for channels you don't watch is one massive assumption.

YOur reply is......zzzzz.. Nothing.

I was at least hoping to hear more about what you watch that add up to 30 hrs a week. And if that includes your wife too or not or ?

I also pointed how cable/satellite to OTA/streaming comparisons are usually absurd and yours proved to be no exception. I said why.

I was hoping you would have something to say when I pointed this out, but ....crickets.


I'm sorry if you think pointing these things out is antiquated thinking. As far I know the math I'm using still works in 2014 even though it was developed many hundreds and thousands of years ago.

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Old 05-20-2014, 12:03 AM   #98
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So based on my personal experience, preferences, and value I place on video consumption, I find it laughable that anyone believes you "need" a cable/satellite sub to have access to enough video content.
No one is making this argument.

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On the conversation about having cable/satellite channels available A La Cart, I don't ever see it happen without a Government mandate as none of the companies involved would benefit enough to force the change. On if such an A La Cart system would cost less or not, not likely, but it could if again the Government mandated a full A La Cart only system, no packages, no bundling allow period, and then treated the delivery system as a regulated utility. That would force "channels" to compete on price for their content which might drive prices down.
I think customers can help force it to some extent. Write letters to cable and satellite companies. Write letters to the FCC. And with more video available via streaming it will only help pressure cable/content companies. And there does come a point where if, for example, sports programming, becomes too much of one's bill and you aren't watching it all then things will change. Maybe this just means a no sports channel option.

But realize that ala carte doesn't necessarily mean lower prices. IT depends on your viewing habits.

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Old 05-20-2014, 12:13 AM   #99
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Sure many people watch a channel or two but the vast majority of people don't come close to even watching all the ESPN channels. Let alone the dozens of other sports networks.
Of course ESPn is the main offender since their channels cost so much.

Personally I only on occasion watch the main one. Yet I have no choice but to pay for the rest. I'm not even sure I've met any one that watches all of the ESPN channels. If people could pick and choose the channels they watch, things would change drastically. Especially for the sports channels since they could no longer be subsidized by all the people that don't watch them. They would need to charge a lot more per subscriber to get the same amount of income
Yeah but you aren't paying much for the other ESPNs.


And I'm not sure how you can just say you watch the main one and don't watch ESPN2 at all. Because sometimes events I want to watch are on 2 and sometimes they are 1. I have no idea what is going to be where. That's part of the reason they have 2 main channels.

I do agree if sports programming is way too much of the cost of your cable bill and you watch no sports then ...something needs to change and something probably will be done eventually.

And, believe it or not, cable/satellite companies are fighting back on some of these costs. And refusing to carry some sports programming.

And I've read some are even starting to offer or at least are considering no-sports options.

Even Dish chairman Charlie Ergen predicted in 2012 that non-sports fans would eventually rebel against the rising costs and “there will be one day an offering out there that doesn’t include sports.”

Not sure the difference in cost will be mind blowing or not.

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Old 05-20-2014, 12:26 AM   #100
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What I hate more are the hundreds of garbage channels. Even formerly good channels like History and Discovery are garbage now. MTV doesn't do much with music, and on down the line. Outside sports and news, there is almost nothing decent left in the middle of the lineup, it's all either PBS or HBO these days...
Yep there's lots of garbage in my cabletv package. But one man's garbage is another man's treasure and it takes alot of garbage to create a hit sorta speak. So you have a combination of garbage others like and garbage that no one likes and is soon to canceled and replaced by something new.

And further complicating things is you never know what channel a hit show is going to be on. My family enjoyed Pawn Stars for a few seasons on the otherwise now mostly garbage History Channel.

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Old 05-20-2014, 07:58 AM   #101
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I think another deterrent of a-la-cart becoming a reality too is the fact that ISPs like Comcast and AT&T are putting hard data caps on their bandwidth packages. This could severely limit the ability for some others to come in and offer HD a-la-cart of some kind that is then delivered over an internet connection. I think Sony and Verizon have been trying to hammer this out, but having a data cap might prevent a lot of people with going this route.
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Old 05-20-2014, 09:11 AM   #102
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I haven't read any contrarian arguments from you.
Then you haven't bothered to read my preceding posts in this forum.

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Originally Posted by trip1eX View Post
I'm all for you and everyone else including myself finding the best deal for the content they watch. IF that includes or only includes OTA and streaming then I'm all for it.

All I did was point out that your (and many others) generalization about cable costing you more because you pay for channels you don't watch is one massive assumption.

YOur reply is......zzzzz.. Nothing.

I was at least hoping to hear more about what you watch that add up to 30 hrs a week. And if that includes your wife too or not or ?

I also pointed how cable/satellite to OTA/streaming comparisons are usually absurd and yours proved to be no exception. I said why.

I was hoping you would have something to say when I pointed this out, but ....crickets.


I'm sorry if you think pointing these things out is antiquated thinking. As far I know the math I'm using still works in 2014 even though it was developed many hundreds and thousands of years ago.
You want math, here it is.

Here is what I pay for video content now per month (on average):

Dish: $103 (AT200, 1 Hopper, 1 Joey)
Netflix: $9
Amazon: $8
iTunes: $15 (to rent movies)
Total: $135

If I switch to OTA + Streaming, this is what expect to pay:

Tivo: $21 (worst case, or I could get lifetime)
Netflix: $9
Amazon: $8
Hulu Plus: $8
iTunes: $15
Total: $61
Savings: $74 or $95 with lifetime.

If I buy a Roamio and a Mini to replace my Hopper and Joey, it would cost me $989.95 worst case, with lifetime and 3 year warranties. Throw in a really nice antenna for $137.20, and the total is $1127.15. If I am saving $95/month, I would recover my sunk costs in less than a year, and then I am only paying $40/month for content.

Here are the shows my wife and I currently record on our DVR and where we would get them with OTA + Streaming:

NOVA: OTA
Nature: OTA
Frontline: OTA
NBC Nightly News: OTA
Modern Family: OTA
Big Bang Theory: OTA
Saturday Night Live: OTA
Castle: OTA
60 Minutes: OTA
Falling Skies: Amazon Prime
Suze Orman: iTunes Audio Podcast (this is the only one where we'd lose out)
The Daily Show: Hulu Plus
Meet the Press: OTA
CBS News Sunday Morning: OTA
The Good Wife: Amazon Prime
Masterpiece Classic: OTA
Arrow: OTA
The Colbert Report: Hulu Plus
Mad Men: Netflix
Orphan Black: Amazon Prime
Doctor Who: Amazon Prime
Survivor: OTA
Today: OTA
The Walking Dead: Netflix
Bones: OTA
Grey's Anatomy: OTA
Reign: OTA
Nashville: OTA
Revenge: OTA
Pretty Little Liars: Netflix
Twisted: Netflix
The Amazing Race: OTA

There are also more and more other shows we watch already on Netflix and Amazon prime, like Orange is the New Black, House of Cards, Weeds, Stargate SG-1 (finally got around to watching this just recently), etc.

We could watch 50 hours a week and still have more to watch than we have time for, and we don't even watch sports except some of the Olympics every couple of years. There are tradeoffs. We would have to wait for shows to get populated on the streaming services, but we have too much to watch now, so waiting isn't a big deal for us.

On-demand streaming is the future. Paying for cable is the past. Everyone just hasn't realized it yet.
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Old 05-20-2014, 10:42 AM   #103
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FWIW: I wasn't really interested in entering into a discussion of the merits of OTA vs. Pay TV. I really just was looking for a comparison between the Hopper and Roamio.

Thanks,
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Old 05-20-2014, 01:36 PM   #104
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Then you haven't bothered to read my preceding posts in this forum.



You want math, here it is.

Here is what I pay for video content now per month (on average):

Dish: $103 (AT200, 1 Hopper, 1 Joey)
Netflix: $9
Amazon: $8
iTunes: $15 (to rent movies)
Total: $135

If I switch to OTA + Streaming, this is what expect to pay:

Tivo: $21 (worst case, or I could get lifetime)
Netflix: $9
Amazon: $8
Hulu Plus: $8
iTunes: $15
Total: $61
Savings: $74 or $95 with lifetime.

If I buy a Roamio and a Mini to replace my Hopper and Joey, it would cost me $989.95 worst case, with lifetime and 3 year warranties. Throw in a really nice antenna for $137.20, and the total is $1127.15. If I am saving $95/month, I would recover my sunk costs in less than a year, and then I am only paying $40/month for content.

Here are the shows my wife and I currently record on our DVR and where we would get them with OTA + Streaming:

NOVA: OTA
Nature: OTA
Frontline: OTA
NBC Nightly News: OTA
Modern Family: OTA
Big Bang Theory: OTA
Saturday Night Live: OTA
Castle: OTA
60 Minutes: OTA
Falling Skies: Amazon Prime
Suze Orman: iTunes Audio Podcast (this is the only one where we'd lose out)
The Daily Show: Hulu Plus
Meet the Press: OTA
CBS News Sunday Morning: OTA
The Good Wife: Amazon Prime
Masterpiece Classic: OTA
Arrow: OTA
The Colbert Report: Hulu Plus
Mad Men: Netflix
Orphan Black: Amazon Prime
Doctor Who: Amazon Prime
Survivor: OTA
Today: OTA
The Walking Dead: Netflix
Bones: OTA
Grey's Anatomy: OTA
Reign: OTA
Nashville: OTA
Revenge: OTA
Pretty Little Liars: Netflix
Twisted: Netflix
The Amazing Race: OTA

There are also more and more other shows we watch already on Netflix and Amazon prime, like Orange is the New Black, House of Cards, Weeds, Stargate SG-1 (finally got around to watching this just recently), etc.

We could watch 50 hours a week and still have more to watch than we have time for, and we don't even watch sports except some of the Olympics every couple of years. There are tradeoffs. We would have to wait for shows to get populated on the streaming services, but we have too much to watch now, so waiting isn't a big deal for us.

On-demand streaming is the future. Paying for cable is the past. Everyone just hasn't realized it yet.
laughable conclusion. I don't think you realize that most people don't want to wait a year to watch their favorite shows.

I don't think you realize that comparing the price of a show a year later to the price of a show when it first debuts is apples vs oranges.

You should be pricing your Mad Men, your Falling Skies, etc on iTunes/Amazon at $3-$4/per show for an apples to apples comparison.

Also I don't get why you price in DISH's top200 instead of top120 package given your viewing habits?!??


Also not sure why you then need Amazon, Netflix and iTunes if you have DISH???!? That also makes the comparison silly. I mean here you are,...using this logic of, ....'I can wait a year to watch shows.' 'I have enough content to watch as it is.' So if that's really your mentality then why wouldn't DISH alone be enough?

Not that I care about what anyone does. To each their own. I just get annoyed when they try to project that outwards into some conclusion or generalization or massive assumption of a trend and then use a non-sensical apples to oranges comparison to "prove" it.

Here's a much more apples to apples comparison. DISH top120 vs Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, OTA and iTunes.

$75/month regular price for TOP120, Hopper and Joey after taxes.

vs Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, OTA and iTunes which is $40/month (before taxes?) using your figures plus lets say $10/month for Tivo setup. That would drag your worst case Tivo + lifetime costs out over 8 years or so which seems pretty reasonable if not conservative.

So I'm seeing $75 vs $50.

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Old 05-20-2014, 02:14 PM   #105
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laughable conclusion. I don't think you realize that most people don't want to wait a year to watch their favorite shows.
You clearly do not get that I don't give a flying flip whether other people are willing to wait. The only thing most people I know are unwilling to wait for is sports, so I don't accept your assertion that most people are unwilling to wait anyway. The ever-declining ratings and ever-increasing streaming indicates that is the way things continue to go.

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I don't think you realize that comparing the price of a show a year later to the price of a show when it first debuts is apples vs oranges.

You should be pricing your Mad Men, your Falling Skies, etc on iTunes/Amazon at $3-$4/per show for an apples to apples comparison.
If I am willing to wait, then why would I do this? That is kind of the whole premise of moving to this model, to break the mold of the legacy pay TV model in favor of something that favors the content consumer instead of the content distributor.

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Also I don't get why you price in DISH's top200 instead of top120 package given your viewing habits?!??
BBC America is only in the AT200 and higher. (Doctor Who, Orphan Black, etc.)


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Also not sure why you then need Amazon, Netflix and iTunes if you have DISH???!? That also makes the comparison silly. I mean here you are,...using this logic of, ....'I can wait a year to watch shows.' 'I have enough content to watch as it is.' So if that's really your mentality then why wouldn't DISH alone be enough?
All the stuff that isn't on pay TV as well as the shows like Weeds which we didn't watch when it was first on.

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Not that I care about what anyone does. To each their own. I just get annoyed when they try to project that outwards into some conclusion or generalization or massive assumption of a trend and then use a non-sensical apples to oranges comparison to "prove" it.

Here's a much more apples to apples comparison. DISH top120 vs Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, OTA and iTunes.
You clearly do care, otherwise you wouldn't argue so strongly for the status quo.
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Old 05-20-2014, 02:20 PM   #106
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l

Here's a much more apples to apples comparison. DISH top120 vs Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, OTA and iTunes.

$75/month regular price for TOP120, Hopper and Joey after taxes.

vs Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, OTA and iTunes which is $40/month (before taxes?) using your figures plus lets say $10/month for Tivo setup. That would drag your worst case Tivo + lifetime costs out over 8 years or so which seems pretty reasonable if not conservative.

So I'm seeing $75 vs $50.
Well, the actual price for AT120, Hopper, Joey, and taxes for me is $81. All my prices included taxes and were rounded to the nearest dollar. In any case, your comparison is not what I would do, so it has no bearing on me.
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Old 05-20-2014, 03:22 PM   #107
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Well, the actual price for AT120, Hopper, Joey, and taxes for me is $81. All my prices included taxes and were rounded to the nearest dollar. In any case, your comparison is not what I would do, so it has no bearing on me.
Make that $82. Just got a rate increase notice.
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Old 05-20-2014, 03:38 PM   #108
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Well, the actual price for AT120, Hopper, Joey, and taxes for me is $81. All my prices included taxes and were rounded to the nearest dollar. In any case, your comparison is not what I would do, so it has no bearing on me.
And so why not use $81 number instead of $103?!??

Every cord cutter feels the need to use this sort of logic when justifying their decision.

And then when you call them on their bs they play the "I'll do what I want" card.

It must be a nice world to live in.
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Old 05-20-2014, 04:08 PM   #109
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You clearly do not get that I don't give a flying flip whether other people are willing to wait. The only thing most people I know are unwilling to wait for is sports, so I don't accept your assertion that most people are unwilling to wait anyway. The ever-declining ratings and ever-increasing streaming indicates that is the way things continue to go.
I don't care about your personal preferences. I'm just calling you on your bs comparisons. And how you try to pass them as apples to apples. IT's obvious one can pay less for content if they wait. That's been the business model for content for a long period of time.



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Y
If I am willing to wait, then why would I do this? That is kind of the whole premise of moving to this model, to break the mold of the legacy pay TV model in favor of something that favors the content consumer instead of the content distributor.
? STreaming shows a year later is no different than buying the dvd a year later. And that's been around for awhile.

It doesn't break the legacy pay tv model because it isn't the same thing. It is a secondary outlet for content just like dvds have been.

In your comparisons you aren't including the purchase of tvs shows from iTunes the day of or day after instead of waiting a year. That would be closer to a competitor to the legacy pay tv model.


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BBC America is only in the AT200 and higher. (Doctor Who, Orphan Black, etc.)
Ok now I see some of the reason there. You didn't mention that earlier. But it still seems odd that you pay $22/month more just for those 2 shows given how when you cut the cord you suddenly are willing to do without first run content and even without 1 show your wife watches in order to save money.

It's a strange dichotomy.


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Y
All the stuff that isn't on pay TV as well as the shows like Weeds which we didn't watch when it was first on.
So using your own logic why not wait for Weeds to appear in syndication or wait for a free 3 months of Showtime deal or .... Or watch something else. That is how you seem to rationalize your cutting the cord decisions after all.




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Y
You clearly do care, otherwise you wouldn't argue so strongly for the status quo.
Umm I'm for transparency and the truth. IT's clear you can't handle the truth otherwise you wouldn't make such apples to oranges comparisons. And make these sweeping generalizations and conclusions.

I've only pointed out 2 things. Cord cutters all make apples to oranges comparisons. And going pure ala carte wouldn't necessarily save a person money.

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Old 05-20-2014, 04:09 PM   #110
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Make that $82. Just got a rate increase notice.
No different than Amazon nor Netflix.
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Old 05-20-2014, 05:06 PM   #111
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I don't care about your personal preferences. I'm just calling you on your bs comparisons. And how you try to pass them as apples to apples. IT's obvious one can pay less for content if they wait. That's been the business model for content for a long period of time.

? STreaming shows a year later is no different than buying the dvd a year later. And that's been around for awhile.

It doesn't break the legacy pay tv model because it isn't the same thing. It is a secondary outlet for content just like dvds have been.

Ok now I see some of the reason there. You didn't mention that earlier. But it still seems odd that you pay $22/month a month more just for those 2 shows given how when you cut the cord you suddenly are willing to do without first run content and even without 1 show your wife watches.

It's a strange dichotomy.

So using your own logic, a DISH subscription gives your plenty of content - more than you could watch. You can wait for Weeds to appear in syndication or wait for a free 3 months of Showtime deal or .... Or watch something else. That is how you are rationalize your cutting the cord decisions after all.

Umm I'm for transparency and reality and the truth. IT's clear you can't handle the truth otherwise you wouldn't make such apples to oranges comparisons. And make these sweeping generalizations and conclusions.

I've only pointed out 2 things. Cord cutters all make apples to oranges comparisons. And going pure ala carte wouldn't necessarily save you money.
It has been a couple of years, but I did the a la carte comparison with iTunes, and it came out about the same as paying for cable/satellite. Streaming options weren't what they are now, so that wasn't really a great alternative.

Millions have cut the cord, so are all those people wrong, just because you say so? I never said cord cutting was exactly the same as paying large sums of money for access to content as soon as it becomes available. I said I could get all I wanted and more for less cost.

FWIW: I watched many TV shows on DVD (from in-the-mail Netflix) in the past, and that was great. The clear difference between that and streaming is the immediacy and portability streaming provides.

IMHO, the interesting dichotomy is to complain that the comparison of disparate things (pay TV and streaming/OTA) isn't comparing the same type of things. Seems fairly contradictory to me.

Of course they are not exactly the same. There are always trade offs. There would be trade offs with going from Dish to TimeWarnerCable (my other Pay TV option). Weighing those trade-offs are an individual choice. You clearly don't want to endure the trade-offs. Why do you care that I am saying I am willing?

Speaking of trade-offs, what I actually want to know is whether I will suffer any by going from Hopper/Joey to Roamio/Mini. I am not talking about content. I am talking about usability, stability, performance, etc.

Thanks,
Ted
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Old 05-20-2014, 05:39 PM   #112
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It has been a couple of years, but I did the a la carte comparison with iTunes, and it came out about the same as paying for cable/satellite. Streaming options weren't what they are now, so that wasn't really a great alternative.

Millions have cut the cord, so are all those people wrong, just because you say so? I never said cord cutting was exactly the same as paying large sums of money for access to content as soon as it becomes available. I said I could get all I wanted and more for less cost.

FWIW: I watched many TV shows on DVD (from in-the-mail Netflix) in the past, and that was great. The clear difference between that and streaming is the immediacy and portability streaming provides.

IMHO, the interesting dichotomy is to complain that the comparison of disparate things (pay TV and streaming/OTA) isn't comparing the same type of things. Seems fairly contradictory to me.

Of course they are not exactly the same. There are always trade offs. There would be trade offs with going from Dish to TimeWarnerCable (my other Pay TV option). Weighing those trade-offs are an individual choice. You clearly don't want to endure the trade-offs. Why do you care that I am saying I am willing?

Speaking of trade-offs, what I actually want to know is whether I will suffer any by going from Hopper/Joey to Roamio/Mini. I am not talking about content. I am talking about usability, stability, performance, etc.

Thanks,
Ted

Show me where I said people are wrong for cutting the cord.

All I'm saying is the logic people like to lay out for doing so is never apples to apples. IT's weird to see cord cutters do the same thing big corporations like to do with their comparisons.

I don't care what tradeoffs you want to make. OR what you do. I'm just not sure why you feel the need to pass off watching content a year after it comes out as the same service you get in a cable or satellite tv package or why you like to include Netflix, Amazon and itunes on the same side of the equation as DISH. And then basically say, well if I take out DISH then tv is much cheaper for me. Doh!

Even funnier coming from someone that doesn't want to pay for content they don't watch and wants to cut programming costs. This is the same person who adds Netflix, Amazon and a $15/month iTunes habit to a DISH Top200 sub. Not wrong to do that. But doesn't exactly jive with some of your sweeping declarations.

This (the watching shows a year later) is a major tradeoff. It isn't some minor equipment difference or UI difference that you would see going from satellite to cable or vice versa.

And thus one is supposed to believe that you're seriously inquiring about how a Tivo is going to work compared to a Hopper on a Tivo forum when according to your logic you would be getting the same content for $70 less per month if you went with Tivo? Really?

Just please tell me I'm in the twilight zone?

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Old 05-20-2014, 06:07 PM   #113
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Yep there's lots of garbage in my cabletv package. But one man's garbage is another man's treasure and it takes alot of garbage to create a hit sorta speak. So you have a combination of garbage others like and garbage that no one likes and is soon to canceled and replaced by something new.

And further complicating things is you never know what channel a hit show is going to be on. My family enjoyed Pawn Stars for a few seasons on the otherwise now mostly garbage History Channel.
Most of those series shows are just junk. True, you never know what's going to be on where.

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On-demand streaming is the future. Paying for cable is the past. Everyone just hasn't realized it yet.
Not until the content is available through streaming, and the quality and reliability is the same as cable. Content is probably the biggest one. I don't see content un-bundling anytime soon. If anything, the advent of a lot of it being available by cable-based streaming has made cable that much stronger.
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Old 05-20-2014, 06:58 PM   #114
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Yeah but you aren't paying much for the other ESPNs.


And I'm not sure how you can just say you watch the main one and don't watch ESPN2 at all. Because sometimes events I want to watch are on 2 and sometimes they are 1. I have no idea what is going to be where. That's part of the reason they have 2 main channels.

.................
Me personally, I don't watch any ESPN channels except the main one. And that would normally be for an NFL game. Nothing else.

As far as other content. I currently pay $75 a month for the Ultimate HD tier on FiOS in a bundle. Which also includes several premium channels and the Redzone channel. Plus I do have OTA. But alot of my recordings are from cable. For me to drop cable and purchase the shows from streaming would cost me alot more than what I pay now. It would not be worth it for me to cut the cord. Of course I'm sure I could pare things down and get the price lower. But TV is so inexpensive right now. I pay $45 less than I did in 2001 when I had DirecTV. And I pay less than in 2007 when I first got FiOS. And I get alot more channels than back then. So I can't really complain much.
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Old 05-20-2014, 09:41 PM   #115
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Show me where I said people are wrong for cutting the cord.

All I'm saying is the logic people like to lay out for doing so is never apples to apples. IT's weird to see cord cutters do the same thing big corporations like to do with their comparisons.

I don't care what tradeoffs you want to make. OR what you do. I'm just not sure why you feel the need to pass off watching content a year after it comes out as the same service you get in a cable or satellite tv package or why you like to include Netflix, Amazon and itunes on the same side of the equation as DISH. And then basically say, well if I take out DISH then tv is much cheaper for me. Doh!

Even funnier coming from someone that doesn't want to pay for content they don't watch and wants to cut programming costs. This is the same person who adds Netflix, Amazon and a $15/month iTunes habit to a DISH Top200 sub. Not wrong to do that. But doesn't exactly jive with some of your sweeping declarations.

This (the watching shows a year later) is a major tradeoff. It isn't some minor equipment difference or UI difference that you would see going from satellite to cable or vice versa.

And thus one is supposed to believe that you're seriously inquiring about how a Tivo is going to work compared to a Hopper on a Tivo forum when according to your logic you would be getting the same content for $70 less per month if you went with Tivo? Really?

Just please tell me I'm in the twilight zone?
I'm clearly not getting through to you, so I'm guessing one of us in some kind of zone. You're ignoring the entire premise, so I'll be ignoring you on this topic from here on out with the following caveat:

No one here has given me any reason to think I will be as happy Roamio/Mini as I am with the Hopper/Joey. Everyone seems more interested in assaulting my reasons for wanting to switch. Based on this discussion, the horrible experiences I've had the last 2 times I tried to switch to Tivo, and the impression I get that Tivo seems to be moving away from the OTA market and hardware in general, I have serious doubts I would be happy with the Roamio doing OTA-only -- not because of content issues, but because I've seen almost no one championing the platform, and the feedback I have gotten from the community has been to try to dissuade me from that path.

I've seen more support for Tivo from folks in the Dish forums on Satelliteguys. Dish is still the least expensive Pay TV option available to me, and they apparently have the best hardware/software platform and a very helpful community, so, unless something surprising happens, I expect I'll stick with Dish and reduce my package to the AT120 as you suggested and watch BBC America shows when they arrive on Amazon Prime, at least until someone comes out with an OTA DVR that is actually comparable to the Hopper.

Thanks for whatever.

Later,
Ted
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Old 05-21-2014, 06:35 PM   #116
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TiVo is a cable-oriented product. If it weren't for the fact that they could easily make a cable/OTA product to get in on the over-hyped "cord cutting" phenomenon, there wouldn't be an OTA TiVo.

TiVo makes most of their money from deals with small MSOs to provide DVRs, and as such, their consumer sales are also very geared towards cable.

So the real comparison is DISH/Hopper vs. TiVo/cable. It looks like you're in a TWC area, so you have the misflagged channel problem, which cripples a part of TiVo's functionality, as well as a lack of VOD support. However, the fair comparison is still DISH/Hopper vs. TiVo/cable.
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Old 05-21-2014, 07:14 PM   #117
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I'm clearly not getting through to you, so I'm guessing one of us in some kind of zone. You're ignoring the entire premise, so I'll be ignoring you on this topic from here on out with the following caveat:

No one here has given me any reason to think I will be as happy Roamio/Mini as I am with the Hopper/Joey. Everyone seems more interested in assaulting my reasons for wanting to switch. Based on this discussion, the horrible experiences I've had the last 2 times I tried to switch to Tivo, and the impression I get that Tivo seems to be moving away from the OTA market and hardware in general, I have serious doubts I would be happy with the Roamio doing OTA-only -- not because of content issues, but because I've seen almost no one championing the platform, and the feedback I have gotten from the community has been to try to dissuade me from that path.

I've seen more support for Tivo from folks in the Dish forums on Satelliteguys. Dish is still the least expensive Pay TV option available to me, and they apparently have the best hardware/software platform and a very helpful community, so, unless something surprising happens, I expect I'll stick with Dish and reduce my package to the AT120 as you suggested and watch BBC America shows when they arrive on Amazon Prime, at least until someone comes out with an OTA DVR that is actually comparable to the Hopper.

Thanks for whatever.

Later,
Ted

Well if you are ignoring me now it won't be much different than what has been going on.


Anyway if you can get over the content difference and the use of 3 apps plus a DVR UI to watch tv assuming your OTA reception is doable then I don't see why moving to a Tivo from a Hopper would be a show stopper in light of saving $70/month according to your figures.

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Old 05-22-2014, 03:26 AM   #118
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Tivo is good. But You have to do a cost benifit analysis taking consideration of market and demand.
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Old 05-22-2014, 10:15 AM   #119
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Hi
I have went from Hopper to Roamio plus and have some questions .
1- Can you have more than 1 set of favorites ?
2- can the Romio auto tune ?
3- Does the guide take over a day to get all program information ? ( I get the Hd Channels but the guide says to be announced , but I do have guide information on Sd stations) and if this is a problem do I contact Tivo or Comcast ?
Thanks.
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