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Old 07-20-2014, 12:32 AM   #691
nooneuknow
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jmbach View Post
The true virgin factory image does not need a c&de and gets married to the TiVo at first run. Problem is that it run an older OS and does not support drives over 2TB.
Thanks for clearing that up (I erred on the side of caution). I'm aware of the latter issue, which is why I'm always posting directions for making the cleanest, smallest, and already unmarried, updated images. All of that should be here, and in a dozen other threads already.

OTOH, sometimes we forget that some are just looking to restore the stock drive with a clean image, or they only plan on using a max of 2TB.

It would be nice if more people, having the right models, provided images with a newer software, not married to a TSN, which ideally begins with a virgin image.
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Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!
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Old 07-20-2014, 12:48 AM   #692
nooneuknow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
All my TiVo images are made by starting C&D all than after the welcome screen I pull the plug and make a copy of the drive, except for the Roamio product.
So, if I am reading this right, you start the C&DE, only as far as selecting it from the menu, then pull power before it performs it?

That works, but some image recipients (if you share your images), might panic if the first thing they see upon booting with the image is the C&DE boot-time screen.

If you keep your images just for yourself, that works just fine. I've done it that way, when the image was just for my use, and I didn't have time to watch for the reboot after boot-time C&DE (final stage of process) process completed. It's faster for the making of the image, and slower on the TiVo it winds up used with. I seem to recall the final image/backup size being larger than it needed to be, and it didn't compress (zip) down as well, either.
__________________
Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!
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Old 07-20-2014, 04:55 AM   #693
ggieseke
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckcheeze View Post
ggieseke
if i am reading your post correctly, this may save me. i can restore from an image onto any drive and it will bring the tivo and hard drive into factory setting with no recordings...right?
It sounds like you have a TCD746320, but please confirm the model number so I can send you a link to the correct image.

My 746 image requires a C&DE. It was updated from 14.5 to 20.2.0a before being backed up. The 748 & 758 images were from 14.5 factory virgins.

I also have 748 & 758 images running 20.4.1. If anyone has a nice clean 746 image running 20.4.x I'd be glad to host it for those looking to break the 2TB limit.
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Old 07-20-2014, 04:38 PM   #694
lessd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
So, if I am reading this right, you start the C&DE, only as far as selecting it from the menu, then pull power before it performs it?

That works, but some image recipients (if you share your images), might panic if the first thing they see upon booting with the image is the C&DE boot-time screen.

If you keep your images just for yourself, that works just fine. I've done it that way, when the image was just for my use, and I didn't have time to watch for the reboot after boot-time C&DE (final stage of process) process completed. It's faster for the making of the image, and slower on the TiVo it winds up used with. I seem to recall the final image/backup size being larger than it needed to be, and it didn't compress (zip) down as well, either.
When I do share such an image I give instructions to the user telling them that the first part of the first boot is to marry the TiVo to the drive, never been a problem.
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Old 07-21-2014, 04:04 AM   #695
nooneuknow
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
When I do share such an image I give instructions to the user telling them that the first part of the first boot is to marry the TiVo to the drive, never been a problem.
OK. That leaves the part I was leaving out/waiting on, until I confirmed that.

As we've noticed, some (not just one), give universal (one size fits all) statements on shared images, that they requiring a C&DE once the recipient's TiVo completes setup. I've already covered the two distinct scenarios where that does not apply. Your imaging method adds another dimension.

You are the only person doing as you describe, and sharing the images, that I'm aware of. You have no control over what happens to your images once you share them. If the images are being further distributed (which is likely), and the instructions/explanations don't get passed along with the images "out in the wild", that's bound to confuse some image recipients (maybe even incite panic), as well as those who may reply to posts about "why did this image do this?". Any unrelated issue, where the image recipient mentions the way the drive first booted, would likely have many questioning if the image was good, suggesting re-imaging, and/or suggesting to obtain a different image (as nobody is used to seeing a shared image boot into the C&DE process/screen).

Sometimes I've wondered if it was best if donor images were all provided as-is (in the usual states). Those who don't do their homework, would always post the same issue (with non-virgin drives), and a singular reply would remain the same "Run a C&DE to unmarry & remarry the image to the TiVo's TSN". It's a short question with a short answer. I won't go into the larger drive capacity and software revision matters, just yet.

Since those making the images have no control over what happens to them later, it would be best to include a README_FIRST.txt file in the image archive file.

The time you save with your method, has great potential to add more new threads, more posts, and increase the amount of time the helping people in the community have to spend assisting recipients of images created from a drive in an unconventional state.

Everybody appreciates that people create and share images in the first place. They also appreciate those hosting links to re-share them. We all appreciate those who make the tools/utilities to do so. I try to simplify things for all image recipients, by posting my guides to preparing drives for imaging. I do not wish to put you into a defensive position, over my concerns.

Things got more complicated since the Premiere software reached a revision allowing it to boot on a >2TB drive. This is not uncharted territory, though. The TiVo HD had to reach a software revision level to support >1.26TB (without pre-imaged drives, or a lot of complex work). There were similar matters with older models.

There were specific variables before, virgin image or non-virgin image, the software version and drive size. I added my own way to eliminate the need to complete GS, only to have to re-complete it, after a C&DE, plus added already having the software already at the required version for larger drive support, eliminating intermediate drives. I added complexity to making the image, while making it easy-peasy for anybody who gets the image, no matter how they got it.

Sometimes it helps the community to not add more variables than there needs to be (especially when it comes to those who try to provide help/support). Unless you assign a special identifier to the filename of the image file, that makes it stand out as "unconventional", when it gets into the wild, I am a bit concerned about how much complexity it may add. I'm also wondering what possible problems might arise if an image from a drive in that state is used as a base for further operations, and the recipient fails to boot the drive the image is applied to, and let it return to a conventional state, before performing further operations.

I've tried very hard to make this post about keeping things simple for those who get the images you make, from the wild, as well as simple for those who try to answer questions they may post here. None of it is intended to imply ingratitude, and/or imply that you are doing anything wrong. If I wasn't trying so hard on those fronts, it would be much shorter...
__________________
Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!

Last edited by nooneuknow : 07-21-2014 at 04:10 AM.
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Old 07-21-2014, 08:44 AM   #696
chuckcheeze
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ggieseke, yes, i have TCD746320. please share link to image.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ggieseke View Post
It sounds like you have a TCD746320, but please confirm the model number so I can send you a link to the correct image.

My 746 image requires a C&DE. It was updated from 14.5 to 20.2.0a before being backed up. The 748 & 758 images were from 14.5 factory virgins.

I also have 748 & 758 images running 20.4.1. If anyone has a nice clean 746 image running 20.4.x I'd be glad to host it for those looking to break the 2TB limit.
ggieseke, yes, i have TCD746320. please share link to image.

i just ddrescued in a new drive this weekend and i am still getting flicker. it is good you have an earlier version, because my tivo started to flicker when i got the summer update and there was a lightening storm. not sure what is happening. so frustrating!
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Old 07-21-2014, 10:57 AM   #697
nooneuknow
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckcheeze View Post
ggieseke, yes, i have TCD746320. please share link to image.

i just ddrescued in a new drive this weekend and i am still getting flicker. it is good you have an earlier version, because my tivo started to flicker when i got the summer update and there was a lightening storm. not sure what is happening. so frustrating!
I sincerely doubt even a new hard drive with a new image will fix that specific problem, with those specific circumstances. You will get the update again, if you had some illusion you could stay on older software.

It won't hurt to see what happens. Just don't get your hopes up...
__________________
Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!
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Old 07-21-2014, 03:18 PM   #698
chuckcheeze
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Join Date: May 2012
Posts: 4
fingers crossed on image fixing it

Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
I sincerely doubt even a new hard drive with a new image will fix that specific problem, with those specific circumstances. You will get the update again, if you had some illusion you could stay on older software.

It won't hurt to see what happens. Just don't get your hopes up...
i am keeping my hopes low with the image. after i reboot with the old drive and newly image drive, it works for about an hour and then the flicker comes back.

fingers crossed if the image work.
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Old 07-21-2014, 07:31 PM   #699
lessd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
OK. That leaves the part I was leaving out/waiting on, until I confirmed that.

As we've noticed, some (not just one), give universal (one size fits all) statements on shared images, that they requiring a C&DE once the recipient's TiVo completes setup. I've already covered the two distinct scenarios where that does not apply. Your imaging method adds another dimension.

You are the only person doing as you describe, and sharing the images, that I'm aware of. You have no control over what happens to your images once you share them. If the images are being further distributed (which is likely), and the instructions/explanations don't get passed along with the images "out in the wild", that's bound to confuse some image recipients (maybe even incite panic), as well as those who may reply to posts about "why did this image do this?". Any unrelated issue, where the image recipient mentions the way the drive first booted, would likely have many questioning if the image was good, suggesting re-imaging, and/or suggesting to obtain a different image (as nobody is used to seeing a shared image boot into the C&DE process/screen).

Sometimes I've wondered if it was best if donor images were all provided as-is (in the usual states). Those who don't do their homework, would always post the same issue (with non-virgin drives), and a singular reply would remain the same "Run a C&DE to unmarry & remarry the image to the TiVo's TSN". It's a short question with a short answer. I won't go into the larger drive capacity and software revision matters, just yet.

Since those making the images have no control over what happens to them later, it would be best to include a README_FIRST.txt file in the image archive file.

The time you save with your method, has great potential to add more new threads, more posts, and increase the amount of time the helping people in the community have to spend assisting recipients of images created from a drive in an unconventional state.

Everybody appreciates that people create and share images in the first place. They also appreciate those hosting links to re-share them. We all appreciate those who make the tools/utilities to do so. I try to simplify things for all image recipients, by posting my guides to preparing drives for imaging. I do not wish to put you into a defensive position, over my concerns.

Things got more complicated since the Premiere software reached a revision allowing it to boot on a >2TB drive. This is not uncharted territory, though. The TiVo HD had to reach a software revision level to support >1.26TB (without pre-imaged drives, or a lot of complex work). There were similar matters with older models.

There were specific variables before, virgin image or non-virgin image, the software version and drive size. I added my own way to eliminate the need to complete GS, only to have to re-complete it, after a C&DE, plus added already having the software already at the required version for larger drive support, eliminating intermediate drives. I added complexity to making the image, while making it easy-peasy for anybody who gets the image, no matter how they got it.

Sometimes it helps the community to not add more variables than there needs to be (especially when it comes to those who try to provide help/support). Unless you assign a special identifier to the filename of the image file, that makes it stand out as "unconventional", when it gets into the wild, I am a bit concerned about how much complexity it may add. I'm also wondering what possible problems might arise if an image from a drive in that state is used as a base for further operations, and the recipient fails to boot the drive the image is applied to, and let it return to a conventional state, before performing further operations.

I've tried very hard to make this post about keeping things simple for those who get the images you make, from the wild, as well as simple for those who try to answer questions they may post here. None of it is intended to imply ingratitude, and/or imply that you are doing anything wrong. If I wasn't trying so hard on those fronts, it would be much shorter...
I only use my images with certain people on this Forum who know what their doing, or friends that would never share with anybody, I have send out drives with my image on them and a note, never had any returns or problems as it is hard to share a drive, for me the C&D works and saves the user much time as they don't have to do two setups and they get the newest software.
__________________
Les Daniels

_____________________________________________
3 Roamio Plus upgraded to 2Tb & 3Tb, and 2 Minis, Also 1 not used Humax Series 2 with a DVD burner
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Old 07-22-2014, 06:13 AM   #700
ggieseke
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Join Date: May 2008
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Quote:
Originally Posted by chuckcheeze View Post
i am keeping my hopes low with the image. after i reboot with the old drive and newly image drive, it works for about an hour and then the flicker comes back.

fingers crossed if the image work.
PM sent.
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Old 07-22-2014, 11:04 AM   #701
nooneuknow
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: Cox Cable Market, NV
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lessd View Post
I only use my images with certain people on this Forum who know what their doing, or friends that would never share with anybody, I have send out drives with my image on them and a note, never had any returns or problems as it is hard to share a drive, for me the C&D works and saves the user much time as they don't have to do two setups and they get the newest software.
The way I outlined earlier in this thread does all of that, plus saves the recipients time on waiting for the C&DE process to complete, and makes the cleanest & smallest image possible, while providing all of that.

I guess since you seem sure your images won't leak into into the wild, I need not be concerned about what state the drive is in when you image it.
__________________
Cisco tuning adapters should never be used inline (using the TA coax OUT port) to connect a TiVo, if MoCA is in use. Use a splitter w/PoE filter on leg to TA, use other leg for the TiVo. Enjoy!

Last edited by nooneuknow : 07-22-2014 at 03:17 PM. Reason: corrected word reversal
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Old 07-22-2014, 03:12 PM   #702
lessd
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
The way I outlined earlier in this thread does all of that, plus saves the recipients time on waiting for the C&DE process to complete, and makes the cleanest & smallest image, while possible providing all of that.

I guess since you seem sure your images won't leak into into the wild, I need not be concerned about what state the drive is in when you image it.
It has been some years since I have done any images for anybody but myself (except ggieseke who does know what he is doing).
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