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Old 06-02-2016, 07:02 PM   #1711
BeachBill
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Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
Nope. Per my last diagram, the Antenna signal will only be directly available to the Roamio OTA, and nothing else; the "Antenna + MoCA" coax goes into the Roamio OTA's MoCA adapter and from there to the Roamio, with no coax connection directly to the HDTV. The HDTVs are connected only via HDMI, as in all your drawings. If you want the antenna signal available to the Roamio OTA *and* directly to all your HDTVs, connected to each HDTV's coax input, this is a newly declared requirement and a bit of reconfiguration would be needed. Doable; just not accounted for.
I was just confused. You are correct that the only requirement is that the antenna gets to the Roamio OTA. I plan to use MoCA and the mini to watch the OTA channels and such streaming as Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc on the other HDTVs.

Thanks so much for your help,
Bill

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Old 06-02-2016, 07:51 PM   #1712
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I was just confused. You are correct that the only requirement is that the antenna gets to the Roamio OTA. I plan to use MoCA and the mini to watch the OTA channels and such streaming as Netflix, Amazon Prime, etc on the other HDTVs.
Ok, phew!! That last diagram of mine should do the trick, then.

You can scan up-thread or post a reply if you're looking for a SAT/ANT diplexer recommendation.

In the special case of your only running 3 coax lines from your outside components to your rooms (rather than 6 lines as in your "before" diagram), you could replace the 2-way and N-way splitters in my last diagram with a single unbalanced 3-way splitter, connecting the low-loss output to the coax line running to the cable modem/router.

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Old 06-02-2016, 08:38 PM   #1713
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My question is, will both the internet signal and the antenna signal be available to the both the HDTVs?
Just to be clear, regarding the "Internet signal," as indicated in my last diagram, the MoCA signal will be present in each room. How you make use of the MoCA connectivity is up to you.

As in the previous discussion regarding the antenna signal, the HDTVs won't have any direct wired networking connectivity; as diagrammed, the MoCA signal feeds: (1) the Roamio's MoCA adapter, which provides a wired network connection to the Roamio OTA, only; and (2) the TiVo Mini. Alternate configurations are possible to provide wired network connections for multiple devices in each room, if needed, including the example previously mentioned:
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Originally Posted by krkaufman View Post
Note that if you have multiple network-able devices at the same location as the Roamio OTA, you could connect a network switch to the "Roamio's" MoCA adapter and then connect the Roamio OTA and the other devices to the network switch, to provide wired networking for multiple devices at this location.

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Old 06-02-2016, 10:19 PM   #1714
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Thanks so much for your help,
Bill
Happy to have (possibly) helped. Do let us know how it works out...

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Old 06-04-2016, 09:32 AM   #1715
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Happy to have (possibly) helped. Do let us know how it works out...
I will keep everyone posted. Step 1 is to purchase an antenna and just plug it in outside and see how OTA reception looks on the HDTVs in the house. I plan to purchase a Lava 8008 antenna. Thanks again for the help and any advice or heads up.
Bill

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Old 06-06-2016, 11:08 AM   #1716
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I will keep everyone posted. Step 1 is to purchase an antenna and just plug it in outside and see how OTA reception looks on the HDTVs in the house. I plan to purchase a Lava 8008 antenna.
Another config variation to consider, should you want the antenna signal available to more than just the Roamio OTA... (plus some alternate scenarios for the rooms, as well)...

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...-MoCA-alt3.jpg

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Old 06-08-2016, 06:29 AM   #1717
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Hi,

I saw in one of the MOCA network responses a mention of:
TP-LINK TL-PA8010P KIT AV1200 Gigabit with Power Outlet Pass-through Powerline Adapter, Up to 1200Mbps

I was wondering if anybody knew what the difference was between that and:

TP-LINK TL-PA8010 KIT AV1200 Gigabit Powerline Adapter, Up to 1200Mbps

What is the pass through part? So I could do this instead of a MOCA network for my bolt and TiVo minis? Having trouble seeting up MOCA network with Xfinity using the Arris TMG1682G modem.

Thanks in advance!!

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Old 06-08-2016, 07:20 AM   #1718
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New Comcast Service

Hello, all. First time poster here.

I currently have Fios running 1 Roamio Plus and 3 minis. Since the fios router provides the MOCA network i don't have to worry about ethernet cables, etc.

Now i'm in the process of building a new house. Most of the primary rooms of the house that will immediately have TV will be wired with both Cat6 and Coax. A few rooms (guest bedroom, etc.) will only have Coax.

I just want to confirm that the way i intend to hook this all up will work. I plan on having an Arris SB6183 Modem and separate router at the POE, where the cable comes into the house at the network rack in the basement. Before I plug that cable into the modem I will install a POE MOCA filter, and then a 2-way splitter. One leg to the router and one leg to the splitter that will feed all the coax rooms.

The modem will out put to the router. Out of the router will be some of those homeruns to ethernet jacks in bedrooms and family rooms. There will also be at least one additional router installed as just a WAP to extend WiFi (a switch may be necessary at the primary router to ensure enough physical connections are available).

The Roamio plus will provide the MOCA to the whole network. It will be used at one of the locations that have both ethernet and coax outlets. Since not ALL rooms have wired ethernet though, i should just use coax at the mini locations instead of the ethernet jack, correct? My understanding is that once you're going the MOCA route you need to connect the minis to coax even if ethernet is available?

Just want to confirm my assumptions for how this will all be connected is correct. Any recommendations to change anything? Any additional filters or adapters that I'll need that I haven't addressed or expected to need based on the noted configuration?

Many thanks from a Noob !

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Old 06-08-2016, 07:31 AM   #1719
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It is my understanding that a MOCA POA filter is not required with Verizon FIOS. I have VZ FIOS myself, and this was stated to me by both TiVo rep and VZ technician.

I don't see any issues having Minis connected via Ethernet while Roamio is connected via coax. Both types of connections can coexist.


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Old 06-08-2016, 07:38 AM   #1720
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My understanding is that once you're going the MOCA route you need to connect the minis to coax even if ethernet is available?
Actually, you can mix ethernet and MoCA connections in almost any imaginable combination, as long as all devices are on the same network. The Roamio bridges between MoCA and ethernet, so in effect MoCA simply extends your network onto the coax.

One advantage to connecting the Minis by MoCA is that the streaming data will be confined to the MoCA portion of the network so that it doesn't interfere with the other ethernet bandwidth.

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Old 06-08-2016, 08:05 AM   #1721
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Actually, you can mix ethernet and MoCA connections in almost any imaginable combination, as long as all devices are on the same network. The Roamio bridges between MoCA and ethernet, so in effect MoCA simply extends your network onto the coax.

One advantage to connecting the Minis by MoCA is that the streaming data will be confined to the MoCA portion of the network so that it doesn't interfere with the other ethernet bandwidth.
Thanks! that is helpful and actually makes sense in my dumb head!

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Old 06-08-2016, 08:07 AM   #1722
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Actually, you can mix ethernet and MoCA connections in almost any imaginable combination, as long as all devices are on the same network. The Roamio bridges between MoCA and ethernet, so in effect MoCA simply extends your network onto the coax.

One advantage to connecting the Minis by MoCA is that the streaming data will be confined to the MoCA portion of the network so that it doesn't interfere with the other ethernet bandwidth.
Forgot to ask - I will always keep the Roamio connected with both the ethernet and coax connections regardless of which combination of connection types are used on the minis, right?

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Old 06-08-2016, 08:47 AM   #1723
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Forgot to ask - I will always keep the Roamio connected with both the ethernet and coax connections regardless of which combination of connection types are used on the minis, right?
Assuming the Roamio is used to "create a MoCA network" and you have at least one mini using MoCA, then yes.

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Old 06-08-2016, 10:53 AM   #1724
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The Roamio plus will provide the MOCA to the whole network. It will be used at one of the locations that have both ethernet and coax outlets. Since not ALL rooms have wired ethernet though, i should just use coax at the mini locations instead of the ethernet jack, correct? My understanding is that once you're going the MOCA route you need to connect the minis to coax even if ethernet is available?
Quote:
Originally Posted by snerd View Post
Actually, you can mix ethernet and MoCA connections in almost any imaginable combination, as long as all devices are on the same network. The Roamio bridges between MoCA and ethernet, so in effect MoCA simply extends your network onto the coax.
TiVo's Custom Installers "Tips & Tricks" doc recommends limiting MoCA-connected Minis to 5...
For best results when using MoCA, limit the number of TiVo devices on the network to five. If more TiVo devices are needed, please use an Ethernet connection instead.
... but I suspect they're being overly cautious. Having the Minis connected via MoCA is different than each of them streaming some high bandwidth HD content simultaneously.


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One advantage to connecting the Minis by MoCA is that the streaming data will be confined to the MoCA portion of the network so that it doesn't interfere with the other ethernet bandwidth.
Another benefit of connecting the Minis by MoCA is that their connectivity to their host DVR won't be lost in the event of a router reboot; however, on the other hand, Mini host and Internet connectivity *will* be lost any time the MoCA-bridging TiVo Roamio is rebooted. (This is why I still prefer using a dedicated MoCA adapter rather than a TiVO DVR as my MoCA bridge, and also use a separate network switch as my central wired Ethernet "hub," rather than the built-in switch ports of my router.)

It's also nice to have the flexibility to choose/switch between Ethernet and MoCA connectivity for a given Mini, should some future TiVo software update create flakiness with one technology or the other. You know, on the off chance of that happening.

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Old 06-08-2016, 10:58 AM   #1725
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It is my understanding that a MOCA POA filter is not required with Verizon FIOS. I have VZ FIOS myself, and this was stated to me by both TiVo rep and VZ technician.
You're correct re: FiOS and the non-need for a MoCA PoE filter; however, I'm guessing, based on the planned setup, that FiOS won't be available at their new location and so they'll be going with some other cable Internet/TV provider, and so the MoCA PoE filter will be needed -- and is correctly located in their planned setup*.
* ... with the caveat that they meant "modem" where they'd typed "router" when describing what would be connected to the PoE 2-way coax splitter.

Quote:
Originally Posted by scotchburg View Post
I plan on having an Arris SB6183 Modem and separate router at the POE, where the cable comes into the house at the network rack in the basement. Before I plug that cable into the modem I will install a POE MOCA filter, and then a 2-way splitter. One leg to the router and one leg to the splitter that will feed all the coax rooms.
edit: p.s. Ha!, yeah, methinks scotchburg *is* going with a cable provider, given the subject to his post: "New Comcast Service." Not sure, though; I'll have to do some research regarding this "Comcast" company.


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Old 06-08-2016, 11:48 AM   #1726
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I saw in one of the MOCA network responses a mention of:
TP-LINK TL-PA8010P KIT AV1200 Gigabit with Power Outlet Pass-through Powerline Adapter, Up to 1200Mbps

I was wondering if anybody knew what the difference was between that and:

TP-LINK TL-PA8010 KIT AV1200 Gigabit Powerline Adapter, Up to 1200Mbps

What is the pass through part?
The "outlet pass-through" just means that model includes a power outlet into which you could plug-in and power another device. Compare the pics for the models and you'll quickly see the difference. (The selection buttons for the Amazon product listing provide a good view toggle.)


Quote:
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So I could do this instead of a MOCA network for my bolt and TiVo minis? Having trouble seeting up MOCA network with Xfinity using the Arris TMG1682G modem.
Going with a Powerline solution rather than MoCA is not something I'd recommend if you *can* do MoCA but are just having difficulty getting it setup. You'll be well-rewarded in working through whatever hiccups are hampering your MoCA setup.

That said, Powerline *can* be an alternative, albeit officially not supported by TiVo, if you can't do wired Ethernet or MoCA, as is Wireless per some TCF members.

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Old 06-08-2016, 02:49 PM   #1727
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You're correct re: FiOS and the non-need for a MoCA PoE filter; however, I'm guessing, based on the planned setup, that FiOS won't be available at their new location and so they'll be going with some other cable Internet/TV provider, and so the MoCA PoE filter will be needed -- and is correctly located in their planned setup*.
* ... with the caveat that they meant "modem" where they'd typed "router" when describing what would be connected to the PoE 2-way coax splitter.

edit: p.s. Ha!, yeah, methinks scotchburg *is* going with a cable provider, given the subject to his post: "New Comcast Service." Not sure, though; I'll have to do some research regarding this "Comcast" company.
Thank you, thank you You are correct and we are def speaking about having to jump aboard the comcast wagon. unfortunately I have to transition to them at the new house, but with Tivo boxes in the mix instead of their boxes I think most things are neutralized. There's the benefit of the free cable card at least; i currently pay verizon for the first/only one i have...but then i have to buy a modem and router(s) instead of being able to use the actiontek one I own...actually, i think i'll be able to use that actiontek as a WAP somewhere at one end of the house...right?

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Old 06-08-2016, 02:54 PM   #1728
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actually, i think i'll be able to use that actiontek as a WAP somewhere at one end of the house...right?
Likely, but I expect that's the least of your worries. (May not even be needed, depending on your choice of router and the size of your new house.)

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Old 06-08-2016, 03:11 PM   #1729
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Having trouble seeting up MOCA network with Xfinity using the Arris TMG1682G modem.
I'd suggest posting your MoCA roadblocks, here, and let the community see if it can help you sort it out. I was able to find your original post asking about MoCA, here, but it was light on specifics, especially where it comes to understanding how your rooms are connected to each other via coax and to the incoming Comcast coax line.

Your setup sounds pretty straightforward, so it's difficult to see where the troubles might lie, apart from disconnected cables, incompatible splitters, live Xfinity equipment on the same coax lines, or misconfigured TiVos.

Throw some details our way and maybe it can be figured out. The best start is often a diagram and/or description of your coax network, including everything currently connected and *how* they connect to each other. (And/or the specific errors/symptoms you're experiencing.)

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Old 06-12-2016, 12:03 PM   #1730
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Just figured I would update. Bolt arrived, and it is awesome. Took a while to boot up, but when it did it Is great.

I initially couldn't connect to MoCA, so I had to call Comcast. They had to activate MoCA on my wireless device. So, after being transferred to 6 (you read that right, 6) different people, I finally got to someone at a higher level support position in their internet department.

Initially, we could not get the Tivo to connect, even though the gateway was MoCA enabled. We had to give the gateway a new encryption key, and then input that into the Bolt. and then Shazam, we were Moca connected. Next purchase, a Tivo Mini!
Interesting info, JoeyD51; thanks for posting.

One thing to keep in mind, should you find your TiVo network/MoCA connectivity getting flaky over time, is that other users have reported Comcast automatically shutting down MoCA on their gateways. I hope your setup remains stable, but see here for more info:
TiVo, MOCA, and Comcast XB3 Modem
And per the final post in the thread, there's a Comcast-administered "whitelist" workaround ...
http://tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/sho...5#post10823865

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Old 06-29-2016, 07:49 PM   #1731
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I will keep everyone posted. Step 1 is to purchase an antenna and just plug it in outside and see how OTA reception looks on the HDTVs in the house. I plan to purchase a Lava 8008 antenna. Thanks again for the help and any advice or heads up.
Bill
The antenna worked well. Picked up 34 channels. Unfortunately, "she who must be obeyed" is not comfortable giving up cable TV. However, I do have permission to look at replacing 3 DVRs that we rent with a TiVo Bolt. Thanks so very much for all the help and advice. I'll be going to Bold thread and looking at how to set it up.

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Old 06-29-2016, 09:23 PM   #1732
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The antenna worked well. Picked up 34 channels. Unfortunately, "she who must be obeyed" is not comfortable giving up cable TV. However, I do have permission to look at replacing 3 DVRs that we rent with a TiVo Bolt. Thanks so very much for all the help and advice. I'll be going to Bold thread and looking at how to set it up.
You may still want to keep that antenna plan handy, as having an OTA-sourced TiVo as a supplement to a CableCard'd TiVo can be useful.

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Old 06-30-2016, 05:15 PM   #1733
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The antenna worked well. Picked up 34 channels. Unfortunately, "she who must be obeyed" is not comfortable giving up cable TV. However, I do have permission to look at replacing 3 DVRs that we rent with a TiVo Bolt. Thanks so very much for all the help and advice. I'll be going to Bold thread and looking at how to set it up.
Doesn't have to be all or nothing. OTA plus PS Vue to supplement gives you a 90% cable replacement for a fraction of the cost. Did that for my parents, and it's working great for them. I plan to do the same for myself in a year or so.

In any case, you can definitely get rid of all your cable boxes and cable DVRs.

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Old 07-25-2016, 12:35 AM   #1734
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The DOCSIS signals used by cable modems are assigned to 6MHz "channels" that may clash with the OTA frequencies. It is also likely that video signals will be on the coax from the cable company, so any "combiner" that tries to place those signals on the same coax is likely to cause problems.
Could a diplexer be used as a sort of MoCA-passthrough between the cable TV and OTA antenna coax segments? MoCA would be present across all the coax, but the diplexer would keep the cable and antenna signals separate.

The problem is whether the diplexer's SAT port would truly filter-out the cable TV and antenna signals. For example, the specs for the Holland DPD2 diplexer indicate a passthrough frequency range of 950-2150 MHz, so some cable TV signals might leak through to the antenna. Right?



NOTES:
  • Ideally, the amplifier would be a designed-for-MoCA amp, with a built-in MoCA filter.
  • ANT (VHF/UHF) port on diplexer should be terminated.
  • You could even place a CableCARD-capable TiVo in the cable modem room to tune & record cable TV content, should a hybrid setup be desired.

.

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Old 07-25-2016, 10:13 AM   #1735
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Could a diplexer be used as a sort of MoCA-passthrough between the cable TV and OTA antenna coax segments? MoCA would be present across all the coax, but the diplexer would keep the cable and antenna signals separate.

The problem is whether the diplexer's SAT port would truly filter-out the cable TV and antenna signals. For example, the specs for the Holland DPD2 diplexer indicate a passthrough frequency range of 950-2150 MHz, so some cable TV signals might leak through to the antenna. Right?
The connection you show is likely to work just fine. If the cable company is using frequencies above 950MHz, then some small fraction of those signals would reach the antenna. In an ideal system, those signals would be entirely absorbed by the cable modem, but in reality there are always reflections and port coupling in the splitters that allow some of the signal to get through.

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Old 07-25-2016, 11:06 AM   #1736
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The connection you show is likely to work just fine. If the cable company is using frequencies above 950MHz, then some small fraction of those signals would reach the antenna. In an ideal system, those signals would be entirely absorbed by the cable modem, but in reality there are always reflections and port coupling in the splitters that allow some of the signal to get through.
Post-posting I was thinking that the amp would snuff the stray cable signals trying to find their way up the return path, depending on the amp's specs. Yes?

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Old 07-27-2016, 08:14 AM   #1737
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Post-posting I was thinking that the amp would snuff the stray cable signals trying to find their way up the return path, depending on the amp's specs. Yes?
Yes, good point.

Using a different diplexer, perhaps this STVC would allow the 2x splitter to be eliminated by connecting the cable+PoE directly to the ANT/VHF/UHF port. The key difference in this diplexer is that it passes frequencies down to 5MHz, allowing the DOCSIS upstream signals to pass through the diplexer.

While I generally like the DPD2 diplexer, the specs for it are ambiguous. Some Holland docs show a VHF/UHF band of 40-806MHz, while others state 5-806MHz. I think I'll test one to find which spec matches reality...

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Old 07-27-2016, 11:08 AM   #1738
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Using a different diplexer, perhaps this STVC would allow the 2x splitter to be eliminated by connecting the cable+PoE directly to the ANT/VHF/UHF port. The key difference in this diplexer is that it passes frequencies down to 5MHz, allowing the DOCSIS upstream signals to pass through the diplexer.

While I generally like the DPD2 diplexer, the specs for it are ambiguous. Some Holland docs show a VHF/UHF band of 40-806MHz, while others state 5-806MHz. I think I'll test one to find which spec matches reality...
Yeah, having a diplexer in place of that splitter would be ideal (i.e. only the 1 diplexer), but the roadblock remains the splice frequencies between the bands. Too wide a range is slipping through the SAT port (beneath the MoCA ranges, from 950+ MHz) and too little through the ANT port (which cuts off at 806 MHz) when it comes to digital cable TV & Internet signals. The concern is that critical cable TV or DOCSIS channels might be lost with the top end of the cable TV/Internet frequency range, 806-1002 MHz, being filtered-out by the diplexer.

And now I'm concerned about the upstream path, 5-42 MHz -- were I to try using a diplexer to pass cable TV signals. Though this Holland specs doc states an identical frequency spec for the 2 different diplexer models, another Holland doc underscores your "ambiguous" comment, citing a 40+ MHz range.

What we need is a new diplexer, designed for cable TV & MoCA -- which could also be used for OTA & MoCA -- passing 5-1002 MHz through one port and 1125-1675 MHz through the other. Something like what's pictured on this web page (though, ideally, updated for MoCA 2.0):


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Old 07-27-2016, 01:48 PM   #1739
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The main reasons satellite is using diplexers is because satellite IF signals also have information in the lower cable frequency bands for SWiM, control signals, etc. so they naturally want to filter out any cable and OTA antenna channel freqs from the coax so it doesn't screw up their system. It also uses DC power over its coax and that's usually a no-no for cable.

This is not the case when using cable or OTA tv with moca. Moca was designed to have other freqs below it (or above it in the case of the DECA version for satellite) and only transmits and uses freqs above 1150MHz, it doesn't care what's below that like satellite does.

This does hinge on making sure the right coax is used and all the connectors, splitters and amps are terminated correctly to avoid VSWR, reflections, noise, harmonics, etc. that could cause each band to interfere with each other.

I do see the case of using one to keep moca off of your antenna though.

Separate frequencies do remain separate on the coax because.......well....they're separate! This phenomenon is bore out in many other ways on each and every day.

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Old 07-27-2016, 07:15 PM   #1740
krkaufman
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I can only speak for my experience, but I first learned of diplexers because they were used in our satellite installation the same way they're being used with OTA/MoCA installations... to merge and/or splice OTA/CATV & satellite signals (MoCA, in the case of TiVos) on a coax run. CATV (later, OTA) was fed to multiplexers in our basement, to distribute CATV signals along with satellite to each of our TV locations, but our satellite boxes only handled tuning and recording of satellite... so we needed diplexers to splice the CATV/OTA signal off onto its own coax line (then fed directly into ReplayTVs).

If satellite installers were merely looking to block non-satellite signals, I'd think they'd just use a filter, yeah?

Regardless, me want MoCA diplexers.

edit: p.s. Admittedly, our satellite setup was pre-SWM... and we never went SWM.


Last edited by krkaufman; 07-27-2016 at 07:25 PM.
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