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Old 10-10-2012, 05:35 PM   #61
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Originally Posted by john4200 View Post
It is certain that many (probably most) of the potential targets on such a list would be on American soil, since it is a DHS list. Given that Brody seems to think Nazir wants to retaliate against the Americans responsible for killing Issa, I'm not sure why you would suggest that Brody would be okay with killing innocents because he thinks there is a good chance they would not be Americans.
The direct agenda that they told Brody was retaliation for an israeli strike on iran's nuclear facilities.
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:32 PM   #62
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So, since you are so flexible in your thinking, I assume you are willing to accept that the reason you have posted the opinions you have is because you are prejudiced against American soldiers? You think that members of the US military would not be opposed to participating in plots to kill innocent Americans and if there is a big disaster they would become traitors and declare American patriots to be their enemy, to be hunted and killed? In short, you subconsciously hate America and its armed forces.

If you are so flexible in your thinking, surely you are open to this possibility? It is possible, is it not?
Absolutely not, because you could not be farther from the truth. One of my high school teammates is (well, was) a SEAL. One of my best friends, who was both a college fraternity brother as well as one of my roommates for 2 years, was a Marine in Desert Storm. I live in an area with both an active NWS as well as a joint forces base, so I see active duty soldiers, Marines, and seamen all the time, and if I am ever introduced to one, I thank them for their service. Heck, I have coached my son's youth sports teams with several dads who are active duty (one of whom got deployed mid-season and left me stranded coaching by myself). I'm probably the biggest fan of our military that you will find outside of someone who actually served (although my dad is a former National Guardsmen, and my father-in-law was a Reservist).

So every time I hear about an incident like the ones I mentioned (reluctantly, but the point had to be made) above I am pained greatly by it, because all it does is reinforce the negative opinion that those around the world have of our armed forces. But that doesn't mean that I ignore the fact that they are all human, and they all have foibles and flaws, so I don't hold them up to unreasonable standards of behavior under extraordinary circumstances, especially in fictional situations.

Seriously. Get over yourself. There's no need for the open hostility. I have expressed none towards you that I can think of (and if by some stretch something I wrote was interpreted as hostile, then I apologize).
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Old 10-10-2012, 06:45 PM   #63
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We don't know that the innocents would all be Americans in the case of the target list. Given the context, there's a decent chance it would be Israelis.
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It is certain that many (probably most) of the potential targets on such a list would be on American soil, since it is a DHS list. Given that Brody seems to think Nazir wants to retaliate against the Americans responsible for killing Issa, I'm not sure why you would suggest that Brody would be okay with killing innocents because he thinks there is a good chance they would not be Americans.
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The direct agenda that they told Brody was retaliation for an israeli strike on iran's nuclear facilities.
DHS isn't part of the CIA, so why would Estes have top secret documents relating to internal security assessments of American targets?
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:25 PM   #64
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DHS isn't part of the CIA, so why would Estes have top secret documents relating to internal security assessments of American targets?
I mentioned that the CIA has no business inside the US earlier. We do see lotsa TV shows and movies that have the CIA waving guns and shooting people inside the US, though.

Wasn't the idea of the DHS to combine CIA, FBI, Customs, etc so they would share intelligence? Thank G'd the CIA stayed out of that. Otherwise, with the DHS incompetence, we never would have gotten UBL.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:31 PM   #65
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I mentioned that the CIA has no business inside the US earlier. We do see lotsa TV shows and movies that have the CIA waving guns and shooting people. though.
This is true. Although I feel like sometimes shows have at least made passing reference to it. Maybe I'm mistaken, but didn't they at least give lip service to this in the 1st season when Carrie first wanted to place Brody under surveillance?

Of course, the best/worst example of this was 24. CTU was supposedly a division of the CIA, and yet they proudly operated almost entirely in the US.
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Old 10-10-2012, 07:36 PM   #66
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It will be interesting to see if we ever find out what the rest of Brody's taped confession says. The bit that we've seen implies that he is about to explicitly explain his reasons for blowing up the VP, so it would be pretty unbelievable if they somehow then tried to write a scenario where the confession gets out and Brody has a way to weasel out of it because nothing he said on the recording was explicit and everything could be explained in another way.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:18 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by DreadPirateRob View Post
DHS isn't part of the CIA, so why would Estes have top secret documents relating to internal security assessments of American targets?
Probably because the CIA provides some of the intelligence used to create the lists, and uses some of the intelligence from the lists in their operations. The CIA supposedly does not operate in the US, but terrorist threats largely come from outside the US, so it is easy to see why the CIA would be interested and/or involved with the intelligence related to a potential targets list.
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Old 10-10-2012, 08:24 PM   #68
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Seriously. Get over yourself. There's no need for the open hostility. I have expressed none towards you that I can think of (and if by some stretch something I wrote was interpreted as hostile, then I apologize).
You have repeatedly claimed that people who do not agree with you are at fault because of their inflexible mind or inability to see nuance.

Clearly you are unwilling to accept the possibility that you might be subconsciously prejudiced against American soldiers.

The point is that you should not be throwing around accusations of inflexibility just because someone does not agree with you. I was trying to point this out to you by treating you the way you have treated others, but clearly it went over your head.

You seriously need to get over yourself.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:00 PM   #69
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It will be interesting to see if we ever find out what the rest of Brody's taped confession says. The bit that we've seen implies that he is about to explicitly explain his reasons for blowing up the VP, so it would be pretty unbelievable if they somehow then tried to write a scenario where the confession gets out and Brody has a way to weasel out of it because nothing he said on the recording was explicit and everything could be explained in another way.
'zactly. The bit we've seen (twice) says "...I am a Sergeant in the US Marines. By now you know what I did..I love my family.." It sure looks like the writers have left the possibilities open for it to say nothing explicit about the suicide attack and that he made it about his captivity for his run for congress or something mundane, even if he mentions he knows about the Issa drone attack.

I still say his opponent could use that to attack him when he runs, but the way it goes these days, it would be "What do want to believe? The actual video or what we say it says?" (Rush is saying that Romney never mentioned Big Bird.)
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:49 PM   #70
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One thing missing from this discussion of Brody's mindset is the fact the he FLIPPED THE SWITCH! And when he did it, he had every intent of suicide bombing the whole room full of people. He had no idea it wouldn't work, and if you judge by the intent rather than the outcome, which we should always do in cases of terrorism, it's case closed.

If this show's goal is to get us to believe that he is still redeemable after that, it's an extremely difficult, if not impossible sell for me. He's a monster, through and through in my book.
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Old 10-10-2012, 09:53 PM   #71
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If this show's goal is to get us to believe that he is still redeemable after that, it's an extremely difficult, if not impossible sell for me. He's a monster, through and through in my book.
If Brody were written as a believable character, I would agree with you. But since his character is so poorly written, I have a hard time judging the character at all. It's too bad they didn't explode him last season.
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Old 10-11-2012, 06:31 AM   #72
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...maybe try a new show??
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:22 AM   #73
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Even though the act was ridiculous (texting in the war room), I thought the story aspect of it was fine. Brody loves Nazir. Yes, it's a false love, created by Nazir, but it is still incredibly strong. I'm sure he didn't 'want' to text him, but he just couldn't help himself. The depth of the connection created by Nazir is that strong.
And, he was brainwashed and "turned". He is human and conflicted, but only at times. He is clearly strongly connected to "the other side" , because of the loss of Issa at US hands, the coverup, the "saving" of him by Nazir and, of course, the fact that they continue to mess with him and have brainwashed him.

When he sees his family, etc. he gets conflicted, but there hasn't been anything that he's done to show he's loyal to US....to his family, he's trying to be, but he only became a Congressman to infiltrate the government and provide info to Nazir, et al in a "non violent" way. Which, of course is ridiculous...HE might not be violent (although he was by killing Walker), but anything he does to help Nazir, ends up in violence/loss of lives.
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:27 AM   #74
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One thing missing from this discussion of Brody's mindset is the fact the he FLIPPED THE SWITCH! And when he did it, he had every intent of suicide bombing the whole room full of people. He had no idea it wouldn't work, and if you judge by the intent rather than the outcome, which we should always do in cases of terrorism, it's case closed.

If this show's goal is to get us to believe that he is still redeemable after that, it's an extremely difficult, if not impossible sell for me. He's a monster, through and through in my book.
Agree! He is on "their side", clearly, Nothing he has done supports the US. It only emboldens Nazir. Yes, he's a human being who loved/loves his family, but everything he has done has been to support Nazir et al.

Unless something happens to have him "turn" the other way...i.e. back to "our side".....although they'll always be that suspicion. You don't risk your life and livelihood by texting from the Situation Room, going into the safe, meeting with Nazir accomplices, etc.
Brody is doing a great job of showing how he is conflicted (well the actor is doing a great job!), but overall, he is exactly why we sometimes "fall" for lies, deceit and danger...people "act" nice/caring.

Carrie was right all along and I can't wait until she finds out that she was! Hopefully, someone who supports her (Saul) will ....and then do something about it. Albeit, that might not be until the end of the season, if at all!

Very interesting to see where they take this!
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:28 AM   #75
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...maybe try a new show??
Agree!

Sounds like there isn't much about this show that John4200 likes or believes....
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:56 AM   #76
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...maybe try a new show website??
FYP
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Old 10-11-2012, 08:10 AM   #77
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Agree!

Sounds like there isn't much about this show that John4200 likes or believes....
Which is fine, but why spend the time (his and ours) to complain. It's so tedious.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:21 AM   #78
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Has anyone seen the show Homeland is based on? What is the name of it and where is it available to watch?
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:27 AM   #79
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Prisoners of War? Netflix just had it available prior to Homeland S2 starting, don't know if it is still out there.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:38 AM   #80
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Not that I really want to spend a lot of time playing Devil's advocate, but the VP is clearly an immoral leader as shown in the show so far. Brody killing him and harming nearby innocents is not that far off from a US drone strike intended for nazir killing a crapload of school children that they clearly knew were nearby. The VP is not as bad of a dude as Nazir, but both sides seem willing to sacrifice boatloads of innocent people to kill their enemy.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:56 AM   #81
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...If this show's goal is to get us to believe that he is still redeemable after that, it's an extremely difficult, if not impossible sell for me. He's a monster, through and through in my book.
You're right. He had no compunction about killing innocents in the bunker.

One more brainshower I had: Watch for a new plot thread as the CIA gets Brody to help bring down Nazzir.
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Old 10-11-2012, 09:57 AM   #82
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Has anyone seen the show Homeland is based on? What is the name of it and where is it available to watch?
Was mentioned. It's on Hulu.
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:13 PM   #83
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How about this: Saul gives the SD card to Estes, who was in on the drone attack with the VP et. al. Estes decides to bury it because they don't want the truth about the drone attack to come out. THAT'S "HE KNOWS THE TRUTH!" Brody knows the truth. We already know that Saul challenged Estes, and got the truth when he found out that all mentions of the mission were gone from the files.

So they sandbag Saul, which would leave Carrie without Saul to let her know she was right, and Carrie continuing to doubt her sanity.

I'd sure hate to lose Saul.

Note: We also have to buy into Hollywood land where a simple video file can exist on a single MacGuffin card. It's not like there would be thousands of copies with a few hundred on YouTube alone. Maybe on Wikileaks.
[Coming to this a bit late; didn't get a chance to watch the episode until last night]

If we follow your idea and Saul goes directly to Estes then Saul would have to be extra extra paranoid to violate security by making a personal copy of the file.

Now I'm sure the terrorists have plenty of copies (like tiams mentioned above). In fact thinking about it after the fact that might be why the Hezbollah guy had one instead of Nazir. That wasn't the primary, it was one of the distributed back-up copies to be used for leverage if necessary.

But unless Brody is taken out of play or starts playing double-agent Nazir has no reason to expose him; so it shouldn't mater how many copies of the recorded Nazir stashed as deadman switches. (Well additional copies does make it slightly more likely for US or friendly forces to turn up another during some raid or other; but beyond that...) It's not getting put on the internet because it went straight from Brody through the pre-arranged dead-drop to Nazir's group. Nazir then presumably spread a limited number of copies to people he could trust to keep it secret until or unless it was needed. If Brody had gone through with the suicide bombing then it would have hit the net and Arab TV and no-one could have covered it up. But Nazir clearly didn't jump the gun; he was waiting to hear news of the attack before releasing Brody's message. (And Brody's own wording shows he was aware of that plan; it was worded like it would be released only after the fact that he was the bomber had been determined and publicized from the US side)
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Old 10-11-2012, 01:44 PM   #84
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Old 10-11-2012, 07:31 PM   #85
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Sounds like there isn't much about this show that John4200 likes or believes....
You are incorrect, and you should be more careful about jumping to false conclusions about what I like or believe.
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Old 10-13-2012, 08:46 AM   #86
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Has anyone seen the show Homeland is based on? What is the name of it and where is it available to watch?
http://www.imdb.com/title/tt1676462/ As others said, it's available on Hulu. I find it as good or better than Homeland.
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Old 10-20-2012, 08:42 PM   #87
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Not that I really want to spend a lot of time playing Devil's advocate, but the VP is clearly an immoral leader as shown in the show so far.
Clearly.





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Old 10-22-2012, 09:06 AM   #88
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You are incorrect, and you should be more careful about jumping to false conclusions about what I like or believe.
Wow, that sounds like the makings of a threat.

I love this show, and it looks like Season 2 is going to be a good one. I couldn’t believe it when Brody sent the text message to Nazir. I wonder if May 1 is significant. I’m assuming is was a mayday signal?
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