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Old 11-12-2012, 02:26 PM   #31
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I very much doubt those things were actually happening at the same time.

They were allowed to enter the gardens at 9:30 am... if I remember right, the goat herders and Abbie and Ryan weren't even supposed to land in Moscow from Warsaw until at least 3, maybe a little later.

We know it was near 4 or possibly after 4 by the time they left the gardens because Abbie said that the library was only open until 4, so they would have to do the swimming task. So, by the time they get to the swim task, get some instructions, do some repititions, it's maybe 5 or 5:30 at least. I don't think it took the rockers 8 hours to do all their tasks and start looking for their passports.
I agree with all of this except for the part about it taking the rockers 8 hours to do all their tasks. We know they all got their clues at the statue garden at 9:30 am. They then took varying amounts of time to get to the guards that gave them the detour clue. Rockers got their first and went to the state library. Who knows how long they spent there, but presumably they didn't give up after just a few minutes. I'm guessing it couldn't have been any earlier than noon before they decided to leave the library and head to the pool.

Then I think they went to the wrong location and it probably took them a while to get to the pool. It took them long enough that the Chippendales learned the routine, failed at it many times, and then finally passed. It took them so long that the Twinnies (who said they lost an hour by not being able to get a cab) had tried the swimming, thought they should quit and use the Express Pass, then were encouraged to keep at it and finished.

I'm guessing that completing the syncro task would take at least a few hours, so it's unlikely the Twinnies finished that task before 1-2 pm, and the Rockers didn't get there until after the Twinnies left.

Meanwhile, the last two teams were scheduled to land at 3:10 pm. They had to clear customs, then went to the statue garden, then to the guards, determined they had to go to the swimming challenge since the library was closed, and likely got to the swimming sometime after 5 pm.

So the rockers likely completed the syncro challenge sometime in the 1-4 pm range and got to the locks on the bridge after that. They decided the task was going to take long enough that they thought it best to pay their cabbie and send him on his way, only to find out he'd already gone. So the locks challenge probably took at least an hour.

All this is to say that I wouldn't be at all surprised if the rockers didn't finish the locks challenge until sometime after 5 pm, which makes it very likely that they were looking for their cab and then going to the mat at the same time the last two teams were completing the syncro challenge.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:37 PM   #32
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Generally, if you tell a cab to wait, you don't pay them and the meter keeps running. This gives the cabbie the incentive to stick around and wait.
With the language barrier who knows what transpired. In general you are correct, but paying a cabbie to wait potentially hours is beyond what both parties expect so I don't think we can say for sure that TAR contestants/production doesn't pay something before the task is completed. Numerous times contestants have had to find new cabs after a task so cabbies must not always consent to waiting.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:40 PM   #33
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Not that this is an excuse, but if your flight gets in at 4 AM, based on 20 seasons of TAR, you're going to end up sitting in front of some gate or building waiting for it to open up. So I'm not sure it makes much difference at that point whether you get in at 2 am or 4 am.
And in this point, had the Beekman boys and Abby & Ryan decided to go for the 4am flight, they would have gotten there on time.

Pretty stupid (in my mind) to risk a one-hour layover to get there at 2am, versus a longer layover and get there at 4am, when you are 99% positive there will be a bunch-up until daybreak.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:46 PM   #34
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when you are 99% positive there will be a bunch-up until daybreak.
Yeah, have these people never watched the show? If the flights get there in the middle of the night, it is a safe bet that the place you are supposed to go won't open until like 8-9am.
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Old 11-12-2012, 02:58 PM   #35
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With the language barrier who knows what transpired. In general you are correct, but paying a cabbie to wait potentially hours is beyond what both parties expect so I don't think we can say for sure that TAR contestants/production doesn't pay something before the task is completed. Numerous times contestants have had to find new cabs after a task so cabbies must not always consent to waiting.
I'm fairly certain that the detailed clues the teams get give them a hint about whether they should ask their cab driver to wait or let him go.
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:03 PM   #36
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I'm certainly no expert at cabs, but it seems to me at least cabs I've taken, the flag drop costs several dollars, then time & miles after that. If it's similar in these places, then a cabbie would seemingly make more money (assuming he could find the fares/riders) by leaving the 'hang around and waits' and getting on with more business. Having said that, if he did move on to do more business, the first time he had to put something else in the trunk he would realize that he has their bags. I would hope he might make an effort at some point to return and see if they were still there or something.

If memory serves me, this would not be the first time a team was eliminated because one of them lost their passport (Zev?)
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Old 11-12-2012, 04:21 PM   #37
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I'm certainly no expert at cabs, but it seems to me at least cabs I've taken, the flag drop costs several dollars, then time & miles after that. If it's similar in these places, then a cabbie would seemingly make more money (assuming he could find the fares/riders) by leaving the 'hang around and waits' and getting on with more business.
It's a "bird in the hand is worth two in the bush" sort of thing. I think most cabbies would prefer to sit there and keep the meter running rather than spend some time driving around without any fare at all. Unless, of course, there is a place like an airport nearby where they can easily pick up a new fare anytime they want.
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If memory serves me, this would not be the first time a team was eliminated because one of them lost their passport (Zev?)
Didn't Dallas (of Toni and Dallas) also lose his passport in Moscow and was therefore eliminated?
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:09 PM   #38
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If memory serves me, this would not be the first time a team was eliminated because one of them lost their passport (Zev?)
Yup, Zev lost his on their first time on the race.

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Didn't Dallas (of Toni and Dallas) also lose his passport in Moscow and was therefore eliminated?
I'm not sure if they were in Moscow, but they were in Russia. They left the whole fanny pack in the cab, if I remember right.
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Old 11-12-2012, 05:18 PM   #39
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I'm not sure if they were in Moscow, but they were in Russia. They left the whole fanny pack in the cab, if I remember right.
According to Wikipedia, it was in Moscow.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:31 PM   #40
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I think the goat herders will tell Abbie and Ryan that they appreciate them sticking with them but to go on ahead because they won't know if they ever will finish the task. Either that or the goat herders will decide to take their chances with a penalty for not finishing the task.
What chances are you taking by taking the penalty? The only one I can think of is a non-elim leg. I would rather keep trying for a few more hours before taking what I would assume to be a 4hr+ penalty.
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Old 11-12-2012, 07:52 PM   #41
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What chances are you taking by taking the penalty? The only one I can think of is a non-elim leg. I would rather keep trying for a few more hours before taking what I would assume to be a 4hr+ penalty.
Just the chances that it is a non-elimination.

I don't think the goat herders are going to make Abbie and Ryan stay there for possibly hours... I think they'll tell them it's ok to go without them.

I don't know what their strategy is anyway... if they are banking that it's non-elimination and that someone won't get eliminated even if they hit the mat at the same time, then they have nothing to lose, well, other than 4 hours, by giving up and taking the penalty. They could keep trying at it for hours more and still not get it and end up having to take the penalty on top of that.
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:16 PM   #42
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I don't recall there being any kind of precedent in the show, but if they decide both will hit the mat at the same time, is there any guarantee that they BOTH won't be eliminated if it's an elimination leg?
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Old 11-12-2012, 08:32 PM   #43
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I don't recall there being any kind of precedent in the show, but if they decide both will hit the mat at the same time, is there any guarantee that they BOTH won't be eliminated if it's an elimination leg?
I hope they both are eliminated.
If they are too stupid to compete against one another they all deserve to be eliminated.
They seem to be only worried about staying even with the other team in last place. They should also be worrying about how far they have fallen behind the rest of the pack.
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Old 11-12-2012, 10:58 PM   #44
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Haven't read the whole thread yet.

Revised Reality Show Rules:
Survivor
1) Learn to start a fire
2) Learn to swim

Amazing Race:
1) Learn to drive stick
2) DON'T LEAVE ANYTHING IN THE CAB, EVER
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:00 PM   #45
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2) Learn to swim
Judging by the goat herder's performance and earlier season swimming issues from Keisha, this is probably a good strategy for either show.
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Old 11-12-2012, 11:03 PM   #46
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I don't recall there being any kind of precedent in the show, but if they decide both will hit the mat at the same time, is there any guarantee that they BOTH won't be eliminated if it's an elimination leg?
I don't think they can literally hit the mat at the same time.

I can sort of understand teams NOT in the end working together, even for most/all of an episode (multiple tasks).. But not the last 2.. that makes on sense, unless one team is just going to start sprinting at the end and screw over the other team.. HMM..

Plan for when I'm on the Amazing Race in last place:
Work with the team next to me in place, and sprint at the very end.

Won't work, since I'm slow..
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Old 11-13-2012, 01:12 AM   #47
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Haven't read the whole thread yet.

Revised Reality Show Rules:
Survivor
1) Learn to start a fire
2) Learn to swim

Amazing Race:
1) Learn to drive stick
2) DON'T LEAVE ANYTHING IN THE CAB, EVER
3) Look where the camera man is filming!
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:22 AM   #48
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3) Look where the camera man is filming!
This +1,000,000!!!!
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Old 11-13-2012, 02:42 PM   #49
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3) Look where the camera man is filming!
Nah...they do pick up shots afterwards to exaggerate those points.
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Old 11-13-2012, 05:37 PM   #50
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After waiting six weeks to start watching this season, we catch up and finish with a "to be continued" episode. Are you kidding me!?!?

I really feel back for the Rockers. Running the race with a bad knee can't be fun. Then to lose your bags in a cab. At least they have a few hours to figure that out before the last two teams arrive.
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Old 11-13-2012, 08:52 PM   #51
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In TAR, the passport basically has to be attached to you in some way (fanny pack, etc.) AND you can't leave that behind.

If I were in their shoes, I'd call every taxi dispatching company I could find.

But A) there are probably hundreds in Moscow, and B) I'm not altogether sure I'd count on honesty in this case, and C) they'd likely need translation help with the dispatchers.
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:24 PM   #52
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Can't they call the American Embassy?
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Old 11-13-2012, 10:53 PM   #53
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Can't they call the American Embassy?
I keep forgetting that there IS an American Embassy in Moscow in these times. When I was growing up, there was an "American interests" section in some other country's embassy.

http://moscow.usembassy.gov/
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:11 PM   #54
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Can't they call the American Embassy?
Yes. They are on no real danger of losing their passports. The cab driver knew they were filming a show since he was driving around two hairy Americans and one guy with a big camera. There was probably lots of producers and crew scattered near by and the cabbie will eventually return their stuff on his own. It's not like the rockers are two individuals all alone in a foreign country.
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Old 11-13-2012, 11:18 PM   #55
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There was probably lots of producers and crew scattered near by and the cabbie will eventually return their stuff on his own. It's not like the rockers are two individuals all alone in a foreign country.
Which brings up the whole Producer Intervention thing again. Even if the producers talk to the cabbie and make sure the rockers' passports are safe, is this intervention to change the course of the competition?

My guess: they make sure the stuff doesn't get far, but the rockers only get it after being Philiminated...unless they find things on their own beforehand.
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Old 11-14-2012, 02:48 AM   #56
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I keep forgetting that there IS an American Embassy in Moscow in these times. When I was growing up, there was an "American interests" section in some other country's embassy.

http://moscow.usembassy.gov/
I knew this because I remember the story about our new embassy building in Moscow. The old one had to be replaced because it was filled with listening devices.

Story here at SFGate:

http://www.sfgate.com/news/article/U...as-2714015.php

The web page the rockers need is this one -- passports lost or stolen: http://moscow.usembassy.gov/lost.html
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Old 11-14-2012, 04:04 PM   #57
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Getting the passport replaced likely isn't an option for them, keep in mind, they're going to need a number of specialized visa's to travel to some of these countries. (Even for countries where we might not normally need one, I'd guess that being on the show technically counts as being in the country for business, so they'd likely need business visas.)

That said, to me, having this be a to be continued is almost certainly an indication that they manage to get ahold of their passports again. There'd be absolutely no reason to do it this way otherwise.
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