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Old 10-04-2012, 06:49 PM   #241
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Not that I wouldn't have major complications beyond transportation, but given that I bike to and from work most of the time, I like to think that I'd be ok as far as finding my family and obtaining supplies. Of course, bicycles don't exist and/or don't work in this world as far as we can tell...
Well, Madison is a relatively small city. If I recall, you don't have to go far to get to rural areas, farms, etc.

The real carnage would happen in the big cities. Without efficient transportation to move the food in from all across the country, and without piped drinking water, anyone staying in the cities wouldn't last long.

So, I agree with the people saying that a large fraction of Americans would die soon after the event.

But the people who are saying that all of civilization would collapse just don't understand human nature and human ingenuity. The most likely thing that would happen is that people with weapons (military, police, hunters, etc.) would band together in rural areas where there is food and water (farms, large woodland areas, etc.). With those areas (all over the country) as bases, order would be maintained and some sort of civilization, probably similar to the mid-to-late 1800s, would arise, except with better medicine, guns, etc. since there would be plenty of things to be scavenged.

And as you say, everything should really be steam powered. That would actually be interesting to watch, unlike the crap that this show has presented us with.

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Old 10-04-2012, 06:50 PM   #242
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My point is, having lived through some power failures, and us having seen how NYC survived 9/11 and the east coast power blackout and most of the South outside of NOLA survived Katrina, there wouldn't be immediate crime, mayhem, riots, murders and the collapse of government. Most folks will cope, cooperate and get along. If Noo Yawkers can do it, anybody in the rest of the country can.
Those were temporary events with an end in sight, and caused by something that everybody understood and could comprehend. Things with batteries still worked. Corded phones still worked. Cars still worked. Mass transit still worked. Generators still worked. Planes still worked.

In other words, completely different to the world that has been set up in this show.
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Old 10-04-2012, 06:52 PM   #243
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That's actually realistic...bicycle tires rot out within a few years, even if they're not used (as I found out when I got a bike out of storage recently).
Not all rubber tires rot that easily. And hardly at all if they are kept dry. So it should not be difficult to find usable rubber tires. But even if it were, it wouldn't be hard to rig up something yourself that would be rideable.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:28 PM   #244
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For the same reason they wear those goofy outfits and sometimes fire their guns while in line formation. Because the show creators think it's cool and fits the look they are going for with the show.


The militia camp looks like something from a civil war movie. I would expect to see some Coleman tents or something. Tents can last a long time if taken care of properly. So far the only modern tent I have seen is from the Miles/Monroe flashback.
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:48 PM   #245
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OK, who started this whole rail discussion?
Not to say "I told you so!" but....I told you so!
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:54 PM   #246
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Plus, this show would be way cooler if it were further in the future and the world was massively steampunk.
I already addressed this point. While it would be WAY cooler, no network is going to want to spend the kind of money it would take to have an on-going, hour-long drama series with a steampunk aesthetic. How many period shows have lasted more than one season? Mad Men, but that's because they shoot it all on the same sets and just have to dress people in suits. I can't think of any others off the top of my head that aren't westerns (and most of those were decades ago).
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Old 10-04-2012, 07:54 PM   #247
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Is it safe to say this discussion has gone off the...

Nope. Can't do it. Almost did. But didn't.


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Old 10-04-2012, 07:58 PM   #248
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Completely invalid comparison. Radios and batteries work, cars and vehicles still move.
Ah...I still remember back 15 or so years ago when, going into hour 4 or so of a power outage in London, I sent off an email complaint to the electric company. Four hours later the power came back on and a week or so after that I got a nice, long email that apologized three times for not getting back to me sooner and mentioning that in the event of another power outage, I would probably get a faster response from the power company if I telephoned as they were not equipped to check emails during an outtage.
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:52 PM   #249
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Caltrain and BART were deliberately designed to prevent interoperation with other rail systems.
Can you give more details? That's pretty stupid.

Oh, and I brought it up because of reading about it in *recent* discussion about electrifying Caltrain (which seems to me sort of "turning it into BART").
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Old 10-04-2012, 10:56 PM   #250
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Ah, now I see. A true California project. We don't play well with others. The engine control module in my wife's car comes in two varities. one for the 49 states air quality standards, and a special one only for California requirements.
That part is good. California leads the nation in terms of environmental laws, and we have separate rules from (I believe all) of the rest of the states as far as clean air laws.. Though our rules are often used voluntarily by other states.

(I say this as mostly conservative, BTW.)
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:05 AM   #251
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I'm pretty sure I can be blamed for bringing up the bit about rail gauges, though not the whole steam trains issue. But in my defense, I did bring it up specifically by not talking about it -- precisely because it's too big a mess and not that germane.
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:46 AM   #252
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The train discussion was better than the episode discussion!
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Old 10-05-2012, 09:52 AM   #253
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I already addressed this point. While it would be WAY cooler, no network is going to want to spend the kind of money it would take to have an on-going, hour-long drama series with a steampunk aesthetic. How many period shows have lasted more than one season? Mad Men, but that's because they shoot it all on the same sets and just have to dress people in suits. I can't think of any others off the top of my head that aren't westerns (and most of those were decades ago).
Mad Men doesn't even really count since it's on AMC and not a broadcast network where the plug is almost fully pulled on a show before it even airs. Does MASH count?
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Old 10-05-2012, 10:47 AM   #254
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The train discussion was better than the episode discussion!
True!
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:13 AM   #255
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I'm pretty sure I can be blamed for bringing up the bit about rail gauges, though not the whole steam trains issue. But in my defense, I did bring it up specifically by not talking about it -- precisely because it's too big a mess and not that germane.
The damn Germans ain't got nothing to do with it!

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Old 10-05-2012, 11:35 AM   #256
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I'm pretty sure I can be blamed for bringing up the bit about rail gauges, though not the whole steam trains issue. But in my defense, I did bring it up specifically by not talking about it -- precisely because it's too big a mess and not that germane.
I believe I'm the guilty party here.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:42 AM   #257
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The train discussion was better than the episode discussion!
Then you might consider cancelling your Revolution SP and replacing it with an SP for this.

Or buy tickets to a revival of Starlight Express.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:46 AM   #258
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I disagree; we should all keep watching this show and each week have a lengthy, technical discussion about something the writers are probably completely unaware of (like steam power). Much more entertaining.
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Old 10-05-2012, 11:55 AM   #259
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Then you might consider cancelling your Revolution SP and replacing it with an SP for this.

Or buy tickets to a revival of Starlight Express.
And get back to work on my train setup!
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Old 10-05-2012, 12:37 PM   #260
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I disagree; we should all keep watching this show and each week have a lengthy, technical discussion about something the writers are probably completely unaware of (like steam power). Much more entertaining.
I haven't finished watching E03 yet. What technical discussion is happening in that thread?
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:26 PM   #261
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I haven't finished watching E03 yet. What technical discussion is happening in that thread?
Nothing as exciting. Most of it was me arguing with another guy over whether civilization would decay by default if the power went out.
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Old 10-05-2012, 02:43 PM   #262
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That would be me.

And no, not nearly as exciting as Train Talk.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:08 PM   #263
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Nothing as exciting. Most of it was me arguing with another guy over whether civilization would decay by default if the power went out.
At this point I think the reason civilization has failed is more a function of the lack of transportation. The entire non electric infrastructure prior to the industrial revolution is gone for the most part, along with the knowledge to build those vehicles. It's going to take more than 15 years to recover from that, however putting old vehicles back in use shouldn't be that difficult if they are still around and have been maintained.

Some things they desperately need.

1) Trains
2) The Pony Express
3) Wind powered naval vessels
4) Mail

Without transportation and the ability to move information from one part of the world to another, advances in technology will remain isolated to the area in which they are developed. In this show it appears that the world or at least the area around Chicago has reverted to a feudal society similar to the dark ages in that people 30 to 50 miles distant are essentially in different worlds.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:12 PM   #264
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Given the existence of amulets, I would think someone with one could just hang out in a factory that makes bullets and rule the world.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:14 PM   #265
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Given the existence of amulets, I would think someone with one could just hang out in a factory that makes bullets and rule the world.
Based on the light bulb functioning it certainly suggests that the electric infrastructure is still working, just dampened somehow. I didn't see a generator anywhere, so maybe one of those 4 nuclear plants is still pumping out electricity that no one can use.
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:16 PM   #266
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Just had a thought. What if all of this is the result of a failed attempt at using some sort of broadcast power? When the broadcast plant went online it disrupted the existing infrastructure. Whatcha think?
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Old 10-05-2012, 04:20 PM   #267
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Just had a thought. What if all of this is the result of a failed attempt at using some sort of broadcast power? When the broadcast plant went online it disrupted the existing infrastructure. Whatcha think?
I would enjoy it a lot if it turns out Google's use of their purchased wireless frequency rights turns out to be the culprit and the real guy who knows what's what is the guy who used to work at Google.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:05 PM   #268
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Not that I wouldn't have major complications beyond transportation, but given that I bike to and from work most of the time, I like to think that I'd be ok as far as finding my family and obtaining supplies. Of course, bicycles don't exist and/or don't work in this world as far as we can tell...
Okay so you bike home to be with your family. I assume everyone else is already at home all day or else also managed to bike home.

How long before you run out of food or water so you have to go out looking for some? Maybe you have a good supply which means when you run out the stores will all be empty. So now you can pedal around on your bike going from house to house looking for food. Perhaps you pick the wrong house and get killed or perhaps your bike makes you a massive target and someone takes your bike.

Congrats on biking to work and having your significant other and kids at home waiting for you. (Hope they did not go to the mall or somewhere else when this event happened). Yet that is only the beginning of your ordeal.

Unfortunately most people will not have their entire family at home or in bicycle range with bikes when this event happens, and things get tougher.
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Old 10-05-2012, 05:42 PM   #269
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1) Trains
2) The Pony Express
3) Wind powered naval vessels
4) Mail
1. Discussed extensively
2. I think the biggest problem here is the inherent risk of going from Point A to Point B, even on horseback. Because there are clearly groups marauding that will attack any stranger either to get his resources or because they view him as a threat, it's going to be almost impossible to establish a reliable network of routes. Plus, nobody's gonna want the job if the pay is generally getting killed en route.
3. ....and this show is set in the Midwest, smack in the middle of the continent. I think the need for these is completely valid, but it could very well be that the writers of the show set it far away from any major bodies of water because they didn't want to have to deal with sailing ships.
4. With the above three methods of transportation limited, this is going to be exceeding difficult. Certainly there isn't going to be a mail system. At best there will be a hodgepodge of messangers for hire, but the pay is going to have to be crazy good to offset the risk of travel.
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Old 10-06-2012, 07:58 AM   #270
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And get back to work on my train setup!
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...And no, not nearly as exciting as Train Talk.
Sheldon needs to pipe in here...
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