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Old 07-07-2014, 10:32 AM   #61
JoeKustra
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Originally Posted by jonnyfive View Post
Hmm, bummer. How is it that a 7 year old off-brand TV has the right tuners in it to pick up all these channels, but the Tivo can't be configured to pick them up? I use an HD antenna with the Tivo right now, and I only get like FOX, CBS and PBS. There must be a way for me to plug the coax from the wall into my tivo roamio and get those channels too? You're right though, my tv picks up channels 2-60ish, and then a handful over 1000 which are HD.
You may get the correct answer in the Roamio thread.
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Old 07-07-2014, 01:19 PM   #62
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Hmm, bummer. How is it that a 7 year old off-brand TV has the right tuners in it to pick up all these channels, but the Tivo can't be configured to pick them up? I use an HD antenna with the Tivo right now, and I only get like FOX, CBS and PBS. There must be a way for me to plug the coax from the wall into my tivo roamio and get those channels too? You're right though, my tv picks up channels 2-60ish, and then a handful over 1000 which are HD.
Because channels 2-60 are likely still broadcast in Analog on your system. The Roamio does not support Analog, which has been around for decades and is a dying technology.

Besides, admitting that you only subscribe to Cox internet, but are watching the analog and unencrypted HD channels presents it's own problem, but I'm not going to say anything more on that.
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Old 07-07-2014, 01:23 PM   #63
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Besides, admitting that you only subscribe to Cox internet, but are watching the analog and unencrypted HD channels presents it's own problem, but I'm not going to say anything more on that.
White elephant in the room time.....Baaaa-zinga!
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Old 07-08-2014, 12:52 AM   #64
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Originally Posted by tatergator1 View Post
Because channels 2-60 are likely still broadcast in Analog on your system. The Roamio does not support Analog, which has been around for decades and is a dying technology.

Besides, admitting that you only subscribe to Cox internet, but are watching the analog and unencrypted HD channels presents it's own problem, but I'm not going to say anything more on that.
What problem? Cox offers free basic TV with high-speed internet. How is it I'm doing something wrong? I don't know enough about the analog, digital, clear QAM channels to know which ones are which and if a handful of them are supposed to not be coming through - so even if that were the case, again, how is this my fault? I'm supposed to know that I'm not supposed to tune to channel 26 - that's bad - but channel 27, oh that's ok!
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Old 07-08-2014, 01:03 AM   #65
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What problem? Cox offers free basic TV with high-speed internet. How is it I'm doing something wrong? I don't know enough about the analog, digital, clear QAM channels to know which ones are which and if a handful of them are supposed to not be coming through - so even if that were the case, again, how is this my fault? I'm supposed to know that I'm not supposed to tune to channel 26 - that's bad - but channel 27, oh that's ok!
No, they Do Not, Basic TV is not provided free with Internet, you are not entitled to any TV channels if you do not at least pay for Starter TV.

Cox does not aggressively place filters on the line if you cancel TV service, But it does happen, if a Tech is working in the neighborhood, and happens to check the service associated with each account.

If you are a new customer and only sign-up for Internet, Cox would probably place a filter during install.
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Old 07-08-2014, 03:31 PM   #66
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No, they Do Not, Basic TV is not provided free with Internet, you are not entitled to any TV channels if you do not at least pay for Starter TV.

Cox does not aggressively place filters on the line if you cancel TV service, But it does happen, if a Tech is working in the neighborhood, and happens to check the service associated with each account.

If you are a new customer and only sign-up for Internet, Cox would probably place a filter during install.
It really is Cox's fault though for running a weird partially antiquated and partially high-tech kludge of technology instead of just doing things the right way and killing off analog. Comcast doesn't filter anything anymore, as it's all digital, and all encrypted. There is no way to just plug in and steal Comcast cable anymore (short of sharing service with another unit or something unauthorized like that).
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Old 07-09-2014, 01:09 AM   #67
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I'm actually a brand new customer who did order just the internet in a new house I moved into. So, why this filter isn't there, I don't know. I was under the assumption that in this whole move to digital, that the basic network channels would still be aired free of charge - just as they always were in the old days before cable( which I thought the definition of is the extra channels like ESPN, Disney, HBO, etc, which is why people pay).
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Old 07-09-2014, 01:44 AM   #68
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It really is Cox's fault though for running a weird partially antiquated and partially high-tech kludge of technology instead of just doing things the right way and killing off analog. Comcast doesn't filter anything anymore, as it's all digital, and all encrypted. There is no way to just plug in and steal Comcast cable anymore (short of sharing service with another unit or something unauthorized like that).
Cox is hardly a kludge of a system, It probably is the most homogeneous, uniform and more advanced MSO in the country, and the only one that has all 1GHz plants, all FTTN, and 1GHz HFC to the home, the only one that is extensively using MPEG4/H.264, Has deployed tru2way in all markets, using DOCSIS instead of OOB for their own newer equipment. Has 8 channel DOCSIS 3 bonding in most markets. Has announced and begun working on Gigabit Internet in Phoenix.

Just because Cox has chosen to still provide many Analog versions of channels to it's customers, hardly means they are deficient in any technology. Analog is simply an added benefit to the many who still have and use older TV's. Cox does not have any Analog only channels, everything is duplicated in Digital.

The decision to keep Analog, with no definitive time-frame to discontinue its use, has resulted in the extensive use of SDV for mainly all SD channels beyond the Expanded Tier, and some lesser watched HD channels. For the most part Cox has deployed SDV very reliably and efficiently, I have no complaints regarding the reliable use of SDV.
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Last edited by CoxInPHX : 07-09-2014 at 03:24 AM.
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Old 07-09-2014, 01:54 AM   #69
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I'm actually a brand new customer who did order just the internet in a new house I moved into. So, why this filter isn't there, I don't know. I was under the assumption that in this whole move to digital, that the basic network channels would still be aired free of charge - just as they always were in the old days before cable( which I thought the definition of is the extra channels like ESPN, Disney, HBO, etc, which is why people pay).
Count your blessings, You lucked out. But that could change at any time.

I am not one of those folks that would reprimand you for accessing what is readily available on the cable. If the provider did not block it, I see it as fair game. Others may call it some version of theft of service, or at the very least unethical.
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Old 07-09-2014, 03:03 AM   #70
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I was under the assumption that in this whole move to digital, that the basic network channels would still be aired free of charge - just as they always were in the old days before cable
They are, of course, aired for free just as they always were -- via antenna. They are not, and have never been, delivered for free via cable.

Quote:
(which I thought the definition of is the extra channels like ESPN, Disney, HBO, etc, which is why people pay).
Those are actually a late addition. Originally, cable TV was Community Antenna TV -- you just shared an antenna with others in the community. And you paid for it.
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Old 07-09-2014, 03:16 AM   #71
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No, they Do Not, Basic TV is not provided free with Internet, you are not entitled to any TV channels if you do not at least pay for Starter TV.

Cox does not aggressively place filters on the line if you cancel TV service, But it does happen, if a Tech is working in the neighborhood, and happens to check the service associated with each account.

If you are a new customer and only sign-up for Internet, Cox would probably place a filter during install.
They are VERY aggressive about it here. They even went around replacing all the cable modem service-only traps that had yellow tape bands on them with ones with black tape bands (color coding for easy ID). They replaced them all due to "a couple TV channels making it through". They routinely come around checking they are still installed, and not removed by the customer, or anybody else. If they disappear too many times, that customer gets their lateral pulled clear out of the tube.
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Old 07-09-2014, 10:48 AM   #72
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Count your blessings, You lucked out. But that could change at any time.

I am not one of those folks that would reprimand you for accessing what is readily available on the cable. If the provider did not block it, I see it as fair game. Others may call it some version of theft of service, or at the very least unethical.
I agree. If the local newspaper tosses a copy onto your porch every day, would you feel obligated to discard it without reading anything just because you never ordered or paid for a subscription? Or would you assume that they know what they're doing and must have their reasons? I guess you could ask the neighbors if the paper is being tossed onto the wrong porch.

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Old 07-09-2014, 12:33 PM   #73
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I would throw that newspaper right in the trash. You would need to pay me to go back to reading a newspaper. I stopped reading them in the early 2000's.
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Old 07-09-2014, 03:38 PM   #74
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Count your blessings, You lucked out. But that could change at any time.

I am not one of those folks that would reprimand you for accessing what is readily available on the cable. If the provider did not block it, I see it as fair game. Others may call it some version of theft of service, or at the very least unethical.
My cable company made you buy the lowest tier TV ($(20) if you bought their internet service (5 up 1 down) for $20. This would allow locals in HD. Last month they dropped the TV requirement and raised the internet only price to $50. I don't know how much TV still comes through.
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Old 07-09-2014, 04:08 PM   #75
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The reason is that they do not have software in a Tivo to read clear QAM stations on a cable system while your tv does.
This is incorrect. A Premiere is perfectly cable of finding and tuning to clear QAM channels w/o a CableCARD. You just can't get guide data for them. It is in no way either a s/w or h/w limitation.

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I am on FIOS and have an ebay card. It gets all locals in hd, most digital subcarrier stations (like 25-2, etc) and a few others, like WGN-America, weatherchannel, etc.
Not an option for me. Comcast is encrypting everything.
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Old 07-09-2014, 08:43 PM   #76
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I might be more confused than when I entered this forum. Geesh. I appreciate all the responses though. Oh well. I'll mess around with my Roamio, if I can get it to work with any channels coming in through my house wiring, cool, if not, I don't really care as I didn't buy it for that "cable" anyway.
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Old 07-10-2014, 06:07 PM   #77
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Cox is hardly a kludge of a system, It probably is the most homogeneous, uniform and more advanced MSO in the country, and the only one that has all 1GHz plants, all FTTN, and 1GHz HFC to the home, the only one that is extensively using MPEG4/H.264, Has deployed tru2way in all markets, using DOCSIS instead of OOB for their own newer equipment. Has 8 channel DOCSIS 3 bonding in most markets. Has announced and begun working on Gigabit Internet in Phoenix.

Just because Cox has chosen to still provide many Analog versions of channels to it's customers, hardly means they are deficient in any technology. Analog is simply an added benefit to the many who still have and use older TV's. Cox does not have any Analog only channels, everything is duplicated in Digital.

The decision to keep Analog, with no definitive time-frame to discontinue its use, has resulted in the extensive use of SDV for mainly all SD channels beyond the Expanded Tier, and some lesser watched HD channels. For the most part Cox has deployed SDV very reliably and efficiently, I have no complaints regarding the reliable use of SDV.
Some of that is far superior to what other MSOs are doing. However, 1ghz is problematic and unreliable, and the only reason that they need to go above 860mhz is because they are squandering so much bandwidth with worthless and useless analog. Comcast got rid of analog, so they don't need SDV. They probably should do MPEG-4 for capacity and quality, but without analog, there really isn't a scenario where they need the kludge that is SDV. You can deliver 100mbps+ internet and ~200 HD's today on an 860mhz system without SDV just by killing analog and using MPEG-4.

There is no need to directly support old TV's that should have been sent to the recycler years ago. For the people who refuse to let go of obsolete technology, Comcast has DTAs, and those work better than having analog on the cable plant, since they generate a fresh, clean, strong analog signal 6 wire feet from the TV, with no analog degradation happening along the way.

Analog is not a feature, it is just a plain waste of precious bandwidth.

Some of those things are unique to Cox, but almost every cable provider is FTTN, that's how HFC works, and many are running at 860mhz. 1ghz is a good idea for future proofing, in case more DOCSIS channels are needed or something, but for now, 860mhz is about as far as you can reliably go, and even then, sometimes it's a bit flakier than 650mhz was.

I hate Comcast because they won't upgrade our system from 650mhz to 860mhz, so we're missing a lot of channels, although they could just as easily get us what the 860mhz systems have be moving HD to MPEG-4.
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Old 07-17-2014, 01:38 PM   #78
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Like the OP, I live on a university campus. Our cable service is provided by Charter, and they provide the signal for all channels via clear unencrypted QAM. I can see the channels by plugging the coax directly into my TV. When I attach my Roamio, I can see the channels after I do a manual channel scan. However, the channels I see have a "-1" after the number (e.g. 773-1). The problem is that the program guide shows the program info for only the number without the "-1" (e.g. 773, not 773-1) so I can't schedule recordings or anything like that.

Based on everything I've read here, I leased a cablecard from Charter, plugged it in, got it paired through tech support, but then got stuck at the "Acquiring channel info" screen, with the status bar stuck at 50%. I eventually get an error. Do I need to rerun GS or is there something else going on? Tech support is also saying I need a tuning adapter, but do I need that with a clear QAM signal?
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Old 07-17-2014, 03:13 PM   #79
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Like the OP, I live on a university campus. Our cable service is provided by Charter, and they provide the signal for all channels via clear unencrypted QAM. I can see the channels by plugging the coax directly into my TV. When I attach my Roamio, I can see the channels after I do a manual channel scan. However, the channels I see have a "-1" after the number (e.g. 773-1). The problem is that the program guide shows the program info for only the number without the "-1" (e.g. 773, not 773-1) so I can't schedule recordings or anything like that.

Based on everything I've read here, I leased a cablecard from Charter, plugged it in, got it paired through tech support, but then got stuck at the "Acquiring channel info" screen, with the status bar stuck at 50%. I eventually get an error. Do I need to rerun GS or is there something else going on? Tech support is also saying I need a tuning adapter, but do I need that with a clear QAM signal?
I feel you do not need a tuning adapter. I hope they leased you a Motorola Multistream Card (M-Card). A cable card will convert the -1 type channels to whole numbers. It does not affect the frequency or "clear QAM" in that it's no longer relevant.

Others have reported hangups during a scan. Perhaps they can help. And it can't hurt to rerun the GS. Search the thread. Without a cable card the channels on your TV should be the same as the Roamio without the cable card.
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