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Old 01-30-2013, 11:22 AM   #1
jeffsinsfo
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At my wits' end -- can no longer make daily "call" on Series 3

To try to be as succinct as possible:

My Series 3 hasn't successfully connected since 1/23/13, though I just noticed this failure two days ago. It's been connected to the same home wireless network for years, and there have been no recent changes in terms of cable modem, router, or computer.

I am getting an N-17 error. The preparing for contact completes, but the "call" gets stuck at the negotiating step. So far in terms of trouble shooting I have:

a. Power cycled modem, router, TiVo, wireless adapter connected to TiVo, and computer -- multiple times.

b. Logged into my router. I'm not that tech savvy about router administration, but I did verify that there has been no firmware update.

c. Tried switching from wireless to ethernet connection for the Series 3. Same failure. Also tried ethernet cable directly from Series 3 to cable modem (bypassing router). Same failure.

d. Tried changing network information (i.e., specified IP address, let the Series 3 choose the IP address, etc). Same failure.

e. Tried connecting phone line instead, but unfortunately I have VOIP service (Phone Power) and I don't think it's compatible with dial up modems.

f. Called TiVo customer support. Spoke with a very nice guy at length, but sadly the call ended with no progress after we went through the same stuff I had already tried. (I think the only new things we tried during the call were unplugging the wireless adapter at both ends for half a minute as well as turning off the computer and using the computer's IP address for the Series 3.)

g. Spoke with Comcast's typically inept customer support. I was mostly trying to find out whether it's possible that Comcast changed something a week ago that is causing this problem. Are they blocking specific IP addresses, for example, and that's what's causing the problem. Basically the Comcast rep could only follow a very basic script and then said she could provide no additional support because it was "clear the problem was not with Comcast equipment" but rather my own.

Apart from taking my TiVo to someone else's home to see if I can get it to connect using their network or phone line, I'm out of ideas as to what to try. I did look at the TiVo support article about checking for blocked ports (I'm pretty sure that's not the issue as my router doesn't have any ports blocked and the TiVo reports that the port check on my network revealed that all necessary ports were open) and IP addresses. Quite honestly I don't know how to verify whether Comcast might be blocking IP addresses since it seems like it's impossible to actually get a knowledgeable person on the phone there. I tried pinging the list of IP addresses in the TiVo support article and got a 100% failure rate on the several I tried, but I also tried pinging the same IP addresses on my work network with the same results.

Any suggestions for what else I might try?
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Old 01-30-2013, 11:47 AM   #2
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Shotgun approach to things to try that I do not see on your list (I'm sure other folks will have some suggestions as well):

Have you tried going through guided setup? C&DE may be another item you can attempt.

Also, do you have a PC set up to push/pull to your Tivo? Does that work?

I'm wondering if your network port went bad or if your power supply is at issue. PS issues can have odd symptoms, though I don't recollect your circumstance being one of them.
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Old 01-30-2013, 12:04 PM   #3
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I assume that if I Clear and Delete I'll lose my recordings, right? I'm willing to try that as a last resort (particularly since I had to replace my external hard drive only a few months ago so there really isn't that much that I'd be unhappy to lose), but I figured I should try everything else less "destructive" first.

Do you think getting a new modem might fix this issue? I have a VERY old modem (about 12 years old) and while it still works, around the same time the TiVo started failing I noticed one evening that I was having difficulty loading some webpages. (My internet service has seemed normal since then, though, so I'm not sure whether these two issues are related.) I already decided to get a new modem anyway since I figured that a new one will likely improve my internet performance even if it doesn't resolve this issue, but I won't get the new modem for a few days and figured I'd continue to try other remedies in the meantime.
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:01 PM   #4
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Hi Jeff,

Have you tried running the 'guided set-up'?
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Old 01-30-2013, 01:45 PM   #5
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No, I haven't tried running the guided setup again. I'm at work right now, but I'll give that a try when I get home tonight.
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Old 01-30-2013, 02:36 PM   #6
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What is the status in the network settings? IP address? DNS address?

Can you bring up the TiVos web page in your computers browser? (Use the TiVo's IP address example: if the TiVo's IP address is 192.168.1.2 use "http://192.168.1.2"

B4 running guided setup try
Change the DNS address to use one of the Open DNS servers (DNS is the Internet address book)
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Old 01-30-2013, 04:57 PM   #7
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According to Support.tivo.com, N17 error happens during or after Guided Setup.

Quote:
Originally Posted by support.tivo.com
Box running software 14.7 and earlier:

In Guided Setup:

Unrecoverable Guided Setup error. (N17)

Restart the box.



After Guided Setup:

Problem encountered while connecting to the TiVo service. (N17)

Restart the box and try again.

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Old 01-30-2013, 05:04 PM   #8
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It's probably a good time to clean that sucker out.

Open it up and blow the dust bunnies out.

While you're in there take a look at the capacitors on the power supply.

Specifically, you want all the capacitors to be flat on the top.
Bulging is bad.


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Old 01-30-2013, 05:12 PM   #9
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Thanks for all the suggestions so far. I'm going to look into everything in a couple of hours when I get home. I don't think I've ever even popped the cover of this specific TiVo since I simply added external drives to increase capacity, so it's probably one big dust colony inside!
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Old 01-30-2013, 06:16 PM   #10
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If you can talk to the Tivo from your computer using Tivo Desktop, kmttg, or pytivo, then I suggest trying to transfer your recordings. That's assuming that they don't have the dreaded CCI byte set to prevent that. Some of those connection errors can only be "fixed" by re-imaging the drive. At least that was my experience with the more common S01 error. You might try kickstart code 52 which I think just swaps the SW partitions so that you are using the previously installed one.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:17 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffsinsfo View Post
No, I haven't tried running the guided setup again. I'm at work right now, but I'll give that a try when I get home tonight.
Guided Setup is like a black hole. The only way out is through to the other side.

If you start GS and cannot complete the connection to the TiVo servers, you'll be stuck in GS permanently.

And it's not impossible that the connection problem is on TiVo's end and not yours.
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Old 01-30-2013, 07:51 PM   #12
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Oh, wise one! How I wish I had checked back into the forum before I started tinkering with my box after work. I discovered first that my computer was able to communicate with my TiVo in terms of seeing shows to transfer, etc. Given that I didn't want to unplug everything to check for dust yet, I decided to run Guided Setup and discovered just what you said: I am now in a black hole because it cannot make a connection.

Well, now I really do have to consider plan B to try to resolve this: take my TiVo somewhere else to see if I can get it working. In the meantime, I'm trying to make lemonade with this lemon: I've been wanting to upgrade to a Premiere XL4 since they came out, so perhaps this is my opportunity to take the plunge, spend the money, and be happy that I'll no longer have to look for alternate airings of shows when there are more than two on at the same time that I want to record.

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Guided Setup is like a black hole. The only way out is through to the other side.

If you start GS and cannot complete the connection to the TiVo servers, you'll be stuck in GS permanently.

And it's not impossible that the connection problem is on TiVo's end and not yours.

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Old 01-30-2013, 08:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffsinsfo View Post
Oh, wise one! How I wish I had checked back into the forum before I started tinkering with my box after work. I discovered first that my computer was able to communicate with my TiVo in terms of seeing shows to transfer, etc. Given that I didn't want to unplug everything to check for dust yet, I decided to run Guided Setup and discovered just what you said: I am now in a black hole because it cannot make a connection.

Well, now I really do have to consider plan B to try to resolve this: take my TiVo somewhere else to see if I can get it working. In the meantime, I'm trying to make lemonade with this lemon: I've been wanting to upgrade to a Premiere XL4 since they came out, so perhaps this is my opportunity to take the plunge, spend the money, and be happy that I'll no longer have to look for alternate airings of shows when there are more than two on at the same time that I want to record.
Now All you can do now is to pull the plug and reboot it!

I doubt it died out totally.
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Old 01-30-2013, 08:29 PM   #14
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Nope. As soon as it reboots, it resumes Guided Setup. It doesn't go back to the previously working state (unfortunately). Too bad TiVo's software doesn't provide that option to back out of Guided Setup.

I'm tempted to select Setup as a demo unit (Retailers Only) since that's my last option before lugging the box elsewhere to see if I can get it to successfully connect to TiVo's server, but I'm afraid that if I choose that option that it will just introduce yet another problem. Does anyone know whether selecting demo unit will get it up and running with the guide data it previously had (which ran through 2/5)?


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Now All you can do now is to pull the plug and reboot it!

I doubt it died out totally.

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Old 01-30-2013, 08:42 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffsinsfo View Post
Oh, wise one! How I wish I had checked back into the forum before I started tinkering with my box after work. I discovered first that my computer was able to communicate with my TiVo in terms of seeing shows to transfer, etc. Given that I didn't want to unplug everything to check for dust yet, I decided to run Guided Setup and discovered just what you said: I am now in a black hole because it cannot make a connection.

Well, now I really do have to consider plan B to try to resolve this: take my TiVo somewhere else to see if I can get it working. In the meantime, I'm trying to make lemonade with this lemon: I've been wanting to upgrade to a Premiere XL4 since they came out, so perhaps this is my opportunity to take the plunge, spend the money, and be happy that I'll no longer have to look for alternate airings of shows when there are more than two on at the same time that I want to record.
The silver lining to plan B is that if you don't already have a lifetime subscription on that S3 is that you should be able to leverage buying an S4 into also getting lifetime on the S3 for $99, which gives it enhances resale value.

But you should see if you can't take it somewhere with a real phone line and connect that way.
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Old 01-30-2013, 09:06 PM   #16
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Well, even if I upgrade to a Premiere I definitely plan to try to resolve this issue with the Series 3 if only because I'd like to be able to sell it and know that it works versus selling something that's of questionable functionality, which would surely bring down the price I'd get on eBay. And, at this point, I think the only way I'm going to potentially fix this issue is to hook it up to a real land line or try to connect to a different network that uses a different ISP.

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The silver lining to plan B is that if you don't already have a lifetime subscription on that S3 is that you should be able to leverage buying an S4 into also getting lifetime on the S3 for $99, which gives it enhances resale value.

But you should see if you can't take it somewhere with a real phone line and connect that way.

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Old 01-30-2013, 10:03 PM   #17
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It could be the cable co's name server is not resolving the address for the TiVo servers correctly. Change the settings to use the Open DNS servers that bshrock suggested. If you can not change it on the DVR then change it in the router you can change it back later (if you really want too).
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Old 01-31-2013, 03:55 AM   #18
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I already tried changing the DNS servers (on TiVo and on router) to no avail before starting Guided Setup.

Too bad all of the networks in my area with good signal strength are secured. It would be nice to access someone else's network briefly just to see what happens. Sadly the only open networks in my area have poor signal strength and the TiVo fails to connect to them at all.

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It could be the cable co's name server is not resolving the address for the TiVo servers correctly. Change the settings to use the Open DNS servers that bshrock suggested. If you can not change it on the DVR then change it in the router you can change it back later (if you really want too).

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Old 01-31-2013, 08:03 AM   #19
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Looks like you are ready to run the KickStart codes.
I would start with "54 Hard Drive Test" then only if it passes run "57 Media File System (MFS) check" expect KS-54 to take overnight.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:45 AM   #20
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Looks like you are ready to run the KickStart codes.
I would start with "54 Hard Drive Test" then only if it passes run "57 Media File System (MFS) check" expect KS-54 to take overnight.
I'd pull the drive, hook it to a PC, and run the drive manufacturer's long test before I'd venture into the swamp that is KS54.

And I'd check the power supply thoroughly while I had the box open.
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Old 01-31-2013, 08:55 AM   #21
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Already did the kickstart to reinstall the latest software (was that 52?) and got put back into Guided Setup. Tried to do the kickstart to scan the drive but didn't see a green screen and nothing seemed to happen other than the box booting up to Guided Setup, so maybe I didn't enter the code properly.

I think I'm taking the box into work today. I've previously found unsecured networks in the surrounding area that I used to download Windows updates to a laptop, so hopefully I can find one to jump on briefly to see if I can resurrect my Series 3.

I take it that I should NOT try to connect the TiVo's phone jack to my office phone system since it's likely a digital PBX system and TiVo warns that connecting to such a system can ruin the modem in the TiVo. Is that true?
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:13 PM   #22
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Progress report:

No open wireless networks available where I work, but I discovered that I can connect my TiVo directly to our network to get internet access.

Box successfully connected and made first call. At second step where it is supposed to be downloading program data, it connects but then gives me an error N11 when it gets to the point of downloading data. I'm assuming this is related to some security setting on my work's network, and it's probably not worth it for me to try to get someone in IT to help me with it since it's obviously not related to work.

At least I know my box is working and that, as I suspected, the problem is on Comcast's end -- perhaps with my modem. I already decided to get a new modem anyway and that should arrive within the next couple of days, so hopefully I can resolve all of this when the new modem arrives (if not before, with a call to Comcast). Until then, though, it's no TV for me.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:27 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jeffsinsfo View Post
Progress report:

No open wireless networks available where I work, but I discovered that I can connect my TiVo directly to our network to get internet access.

Box successfully connected and made first call. At second step where it is supposed to be downloading program data, it connects but then gives me an error N11 when it gets to the point of downloading data. I'm assuming this is related to some security setting on my work's network, and it's probably not worth it for me to try to get someone in IT to help me with it since it's obviously not related to work.

At least I know my box is working and that, as I suspected, the problem is on Comcast's end -- perhaps with my modem. I already decided to get a new modem anyway and that should arrive within the next couple of days, so hopefully I can resolve all of this when the new modem arrives (if not before, with a call to Comcast). Until then, though, it's no TV for me.
Without mentioning to your IT department that you hooked the TiVo to their network, drop by and ask if any of them are TiVo owners.

If so, see if they'd be willing to let you pick their brains over lunch. Tell them what your problem is--except for the I brought it to work and hooked it to the company's network part, just sort of never get around to mentioning that--and that you hoped someone who knew networks and TiVos might be able to advise you.

They'll probably have you bring it into work to hook to the company's network, but they'll be doing it, and they can temporarily change or disable anything that needs to be.
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Old 01-31-2013, 12:55 PM   #24
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Actually, I already talked to one of the IT guys about hooking it up to the network so they know I've already done that.

And the good news is that the third time was the charm as it completed the "call" and loaded the data. Then I saw that it was planning to connect again in about a half-hour, so I forced another call which also completed. It is now loading what is presumably two weeks' of guide data, given the slowness with which the percentage complete is counting up.

I'm glad I got my Series 3 working again, but I still have the issue of getting it to work at home again. Obviously something is wrong there, and hopefully just getting the new modem up and running will resolve the issue. If not, I foresee a struggle trying to get someone in Comcast customer service to actually understand my issue and help resolve it.

Thanks for everyone's help.

I'm still debating getting a Premier XL4 since it sure would be nice to have a 4-tuner TiVo. Now that I know my Series 3 works I'm guessing I could sell my Series 3 for about 1/3 to 1/2 what I'll have to spend getting an XL4 with lifetime. Tempting....

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Without mentioning to your IT department that you hooked the TiVo to their network, drop by and ask if any of them are TiVo owners.

If so, see if they'd be willing to let you pick their brains over lunch. Tell them what your problem is--except for the I brought it to work and hooked it to the company's network part, just sort of never get around to mentioning that--and that you hoped someone who knew networks and TiVos might be able to advise you.

They'll probably have you bring it into work to hook to the company's network, but they'll be doing it, and they can temporarily change or disable anything that needs to be.

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Old 02-01-2013, 04:14 AM   #25
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Final update:

Get the box home, reenter my network information, and it now works properly. Strange that after more than a week of failed connections that it now connects normally. I'm at a loss to understand that. The only speculation I can come up with is that the external hard drive had something to do with it, since I divorced the drive from the TiVo when I took the latter to work, though I did reattach it back home. If calls start failing again I'll just try restarting without the external drive attached to see what happens. This doesn't really make sense to me since I thought external drives just held programs, not any of TiVo's software, but when my previous external drive went bad it caused the entire TiVo to fail and get stuck in boot mode.
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Old 02-01-2013, 07:47 AM   #26
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Final update:

Get the box home, reenter my network information, and it now works properly. Strange that after more than a week of failed connections that it now connects normally. I'm at a loss to understand that. The only speculation I can come up with is that the external hard drive had something to do with it, since I divorced the drive from the TiVo when I took the latter to work, though I did reattach it back home. If calls start failing again I'll just try restarting without the external drive attached to see what happens. This doesn't really make sense to me since I thought external drives just held programs, not any of TiVo's software, but when my previous external drive went bad it caused the entire TiVo to fail and get stuck in boot mode.
Don't be too quick to assume that the fault did not lie with stuff external to your TiVo and your house, stuff over which TiVo, Inc., has much more control than do you.
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Old 02-01-2013, 08:30 AM   #27
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I definitely have considered that, too -- that somehow something in TiVo's control was simply refusing to communicate with my box at my location until I cleared some mysterious gremlin by hooking it up elsewhere. At the very least, it seems like it's puzzling behavior to simply keep refusing to connect to TiVo's servers when everything else appears to be working fine (recording and playing back shows, TiVo To Go, etc).

If the hard drive really was causing a problem -- and I realize that's just a big "if" at this point -- it would have been better to have everything stop working instead of just the daily call; at least then I would have likely disconnected the drive as one of the initial trouble shooting steps just like I did when my first external drive died.

At any rate, I really am happy to have my TiVo working again (I honestly cannot imagine watching live TV anymore) and appreciate everyone's efforts to help me.

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Don't be too quick to assume that the fault did not lie with stuff external to your TiVo and your house, stuff over which TiVo, Inc., has much more control than do you.

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