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Old 06-27-2012, 01:15 PM   #1
mr_smits
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Any details on Tivo Stream and IP-TV boxes?

I have 2 Premieres and 1 HD system with lifetime, but I'm interested in getting rid of the HD to gain the streaming ability the Premiere's have.

However, I noticed that Tivo is releasing some new products this summer: Tivo Stream and IP TV. I understand Tivo Stream is for streaming to iPad, iPhone, etc. What exactly will the IP TV do? Will it need the 4 tuner premiere to function properly?

I don't want to buy a regular Premiere if the IP TV will accomplish what I want in an easier way.
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Old 06-27-2012, 02:15 PM   #2
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i want 2 Tivo Streams
wonder do they need a sub?
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Old 06-27-2012, 03:44 PM   #3
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Either way I am going to get one as soon as they are released.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:06 PM   #4
Brad Bishop
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I was initially interested in these.

The streamer may be worth getting depending on what it does (stream outside of my home?).

The IP TiVo initially interested me quite a bit. One TV with one four-tuner TiVo and maybe a TV in my bedroom with an IP TiVo attached to it. I like that idea.

From the survey that they sent me it sounds like they're going to charge a monthly fee for the IP TiVo. At that point they lost me. It was just a survey so maybe they're rethinking it. I just have a problem with paying for a device that can get everything from the TiVo I already own which I've already paid for.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:25 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by Brad Bishop View Post
I was initially interested in these.

The streamer may be worth getting depending on what it does (stream outside of my home?).

The IP TiVo initially interested me quite a bit. One TV with one four-tuner TiVo and maybe a TV in my bedroom with an IP TiVo attached to it. I like that idea.

From the survey that they sent me it sounds like they're going to charge a monthly fee for the IP TiVo. At that point they lost me. It was just a survey so maybe they're rethinking it. I just have a problem with paying for a device that can get everything from the TiVo I already own which I've already paid for.
They have to make their money on it somehow. The IP box will essentially take the place of a second Tivo and it's subscription.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:38 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by mr_smits View Post
However, I noticed that Tivo is releasing some new products this summer: Tivo Stream and IP TV. I understand Tivo Stream is for streaming to iPad, iPhone, etc. What exactly will the IP TV do? Will it need the 4 tuner premiere to function properly?

I don't want to buy a regular Premiere if the IP TV will accomplish what I want in an easier way.
The IPTV box lets you stream content (including live tv) to other TVs. At first it will require a 4-tuner Premiere, but this will be fixed in a software update later to work with any Premiere.
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Old 06-27-2012, 04:54 PM   #7
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They have to make their money on it somehow. The IP box will essentially take the place of a second Tivo and it's subscription.
So the added value over a second TiVo and it's subscription is what?

Really, if the IP box is going to be treated as a second TiVo, anyway, then you may as well just buy second TiVo and this box is useless.

It should (and will) just extend your current TiVo + subscription - there's no need for an extra monthly amount on top of it. It'd be like paying an extra $5 for each month that they let you use the ethernet port or wireless N adapter. It's getting silly.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:07 PM   #8
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So the added value over a second TiVo and it's subscription is what?

Really, if the IP box is going to be treated as a second TiVo, anyway, then you may as well just buy second TiVo and this box is useless.

It should (and will) just extend your current TiVo + subscription - there's no need for an extra monthly amount on top of it. It'd be like paying an extra $5 for each month that they let you use the ethernet port or wireless N adapter. It's getting silly.
I don't understand your logic.

You can't stream Live TV with another Premiere so that feature alone piques my interest. Throw in the fact that you can also stream recordings/broadband VOD and I'm pretty much sold. As long as the monthly sub (assuming there is one) is less than current Premiere pricing, I can't think of a reason not to buy one.
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Old 06-27-2012, 05:21 PM   #9
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The fact that it's just a box and can get -everything- from my TiVo Elite, suggests that it's silly to pay extra / month for it.

It isn't providing me with new content. The content comes from the cable company. It isn't providing me with new guide data - that's already paid for with my TiVo Elite subscription. I suppose you could say, "Software updates," but then why do I see ads in my TiVo menus?

You're saying, "You should pay an extra $x/month for the privilege of owning a TiVo IP TV" It's like saying that I should pay an extra $5/mo for the use of the tires I bought for my car.

It's a problem with TiVo-enthusiasts, though. They'll make an excuse for anything. If TiVo made people watch a 5min commercial before seeing any recorded program there's going to be someone (maybe not you) who'll say, "Well, TiVo has to make money somehow.."
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Old 06-27-2012, 10:48 PM   #10
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The fact that it's just a box and can get -everything- from my TiVo Elite, suggests that it's silly to pay extra / month for it.

It isn't providing me with new content. The content comes from the cable company. It isn't providing me with new guide data - that's already paid for with my TiVo Elite subscription. I suppose you could say, "Software updates," but then why do I see ads in my TiVo menus?

You're saying, "You should pay an extra $x/month for the privilege of owning a TiVo IP TV" It's like saying that I should pay an extra $5/mo for the use of the tires I bought for my car.

It's a problem with TiVo-enthusiasts, though. They'll make an excuse for anything. If TiVo made people watch a 5min commercial before seeing any recorded program there's going to be someone (maybe not you) who'll say, "Well, TiVo has to make money somehow.."
Just by not having a Premiere at a location saves me $4 a month in cable card fees. I sold my last lifetime Premiere in anticipation of the IP STB. I will use the box in a room where I had a Premiere XL. It will use less power saving me $1 a month if it uses half the wattage of a two tuner Premiere. And along with the cable card savings, I would have a total of $5 in savings a month for me. So even if there were a $5 a month subscription, my total cost per month would be $6(with $1 in electricity usage(if it uses 12 watts). It would cost me less since there would be a lower up front cost.
A two tuner premiere with lifetime service is still going to overall cost me more since my monthly cost for electricity and cable card is still $6. but the upfront cost is much higher.

So for me, at this point, if the IP STB has a low monthly fee or a higher upfront cost(with no monthly fee) I will be purchasing one. Since I need a box on the TV where I used to have Premiere XL.

Of course if a six tuner S5 comes out next year, then my Elites might be sold and I will get another IP STB. As long as it doesn't have to steal a tuner by then.
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Last edited by aaronwt : 06-27-2012 at 10:56 PM.
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Old 06-28-2012, 06:14 AM   #11
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As long as the 'monthly subscription' is available as a lifetime sub, its just a straight comparison with the pricing of a premiere with sub. If they do not allow a lifetime sub or no sub onthe IP box, its dead in the water for MANY of its potential customers including me. I will not add a monthly payment for the IP box. A full fledged Premier is about $470, the IP box would need to be less than half that to be worth considering. Say $199 including 'service' Really does not matter if they decide to price it at $99 and 4 a month or $100 lifetime as long as they make it available for a one time up front cost.
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Old 06-28-2012, 06:38 AM   #12
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Agreed - if the IP STB does not have a one-time cost option, it's dead for me. I'm not paying monthly for an extender. Not to mention that it's going to be hard to justify in any case given that the first software release forces you to take a tuner from the Elite/XL4 for each STB you get, if you want live TV.
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Old 06-28-2012, 09:22 AM   #13
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Not to mention that it's going to be hard to justify in any case given that the first software release forces you to take a tuner from the Elite/XL4 for each STB you get, if you want live TV.
The IP STB would obviously have to use one of the TiVo's tuners while you're actually watching live TV through it. But if it requires dedicating a tuner to it all the time, that is an unbelievably bad design. It should be able to reserve and release a tuner as needed.
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Old 06-28-2012, 10:25 AM   #14
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I wish the Tivo Stream and IP TV boxes were combined. It's confusing to offer two new boxes that do complete different things. I understand there are costs associated with doing it, but I can wish for it, can't I?


My cable company charges $2-3 per month per cablecard. Electricity for running a Tivo Premiere costs me $1.25-1.50 per month. If the cost of the IP TV (and electric) does not make sense financially then I probably won't bite.


However, the appeal of having one Premiere (4 tuner or 6 tuner) with one set of season passes to maintain PLUS 2 IP TVs is interesting. Furthermore, if I can drop 2 of my 3 cable cards then I'm potentially "saving" $4-6 a month. If the IP TV boxes sip electricity then there is additional savings.


I like where this is going, but the devil is in the details. Let's see those details!
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Old 06-28-2012, 12:22 PM   #15
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I'm in the camp that there won't be any fees beyond the cost of the box.


Quote:
Originally Posted by L David Matheny View Post
But if it requires dedicating a tuner to it all the time, that is an unbelievably bad design. It should be able to reserve and release a tuner as needed.
Sadly that's reportedly how it'll work at first, making the XL4 a 3-tuner box. There will be a software update later that fixes this bad design into a cleaner use-and-release setup.

The asterisk on this is that the XL4 software will give you the option to choose between 0, 1 or 2 tuners that can be hijacked by IP boxes. So you could later manually switch it to 0 tuners if you want to reclaim all 4 tuners to the XL4. But then you'll have to manually switch it back to 1 or 2 if you want the IP boxes to stream live TV again later.

It's totally unfinished software, so hopefully the fix won't take forever to come.
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Old 06-28-2012, 01:04 PM   #16
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So the added value over a second TiVo and it's subscription is what?

Really, if the IP box is going to be treated as a second TiVo, anyway, then you may as well just buy second TiVo and this box is useless.

It should (and will) just extend your current TiVo + subscription - there's no need for an extra monthly amount on top of it. It'd be like paying an extra $5 for each month that they let you use the ethernet port or wireless N adapter. It's getting silly.
Currently the only way to extend your current Tivo is to buy another Tivo...and another sub. With the IP box coming out, you can now ditch the second Tivo and its sub for the extender, meaning Tivo will be losing subs. The IP STB will still have Tivo software on it and provide access to web content. I don't know if they will charge a fee but I wouldn't be surprised if they do to compensate for those lost subs.
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Old 06-28-2012, 08:11 PM   #17
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Currently the only way to extend your current Tivo is to buy another Tivo...and another sub. With the IP box coming out, you can now ditch the second Tivo and its sub for the extender, meaning Tivo will be losing subs. The IP STB will still have Tivo software on it and provide access to web content. I don't know if they will charge a fee but I wouldn't be surprised if they do to compensate for those lost subs.
Not necessarily. I am planning on buying IP STB's for the TV's in my home that do not have Tivo's attached. I don't use these TV's very often and would never put a Tivo on them. If the IP STB comes without a subscription, I will purchase three of them.
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:12 AM   #18
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I don't understand your logic.

You can't stream Live TV with another Premiere so that feature alone piques my interest. Throw in the fact that you can also stream recordings/broadband VOD and I'm pretty much sold. As long as the monthly sub (assuming there is one) is less than current Premiere pricing, I can't think of a reason not to buy one.
you wouldn't need to stream live tv with a second premiere it can tune channels
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Old 06-29-2012, 08:12 AM   #19
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you wouldn't need to stream live tv with a second premiere it can tune channels
But if you wanted to save the money on a cable card and only connected it to OTA, you might want to stream live content from another Premiere that has a cable card. If this feature was available on a Premiere I probably would have kept my last lifetime two tuner Premiere and just removed the cable card. And only had it connected to my antenna.
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