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Old 09-12-2014, 11:30 PM   #331
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
Please cite your proof that it has been 100% confirmed, from an independent source, which is not just some website with a list of bad caps, not citing how they made the list, and/or not citing some unverifiable "source". I have proof of my own it's not 100%, but can't make it more than my own proof.
Would the fact that SAMSUNG set up a website to deal with their plague of faulty capacitors be good enough for you? Wow..
http://www.cnet.com/news/samsung-set...ty-capacitors/
Quote:
In response to complaints and a class action lawsuit over failing TVs caused by bum capacitors , Samsung has promised to provide benefits to owners of a select group of its TVs.

The benefits include extension of a warranty for 18 months after March 2, 2012, a "free service visit" to determine if your TV has the issue, and refunds for related expenses and/or payments via debit card or cash. They apply to all U.S. consumers, not just residents of Oklahoma where the lawsuit was filed.

The TVs covered by the proposed settlement include LCD, plasma, and DLP models made before December 31, 2008. The settlement does not cover Samsung TVs manufactured after that date.

Click through to Samsung's dedicated Web site at www.samsung.com/us/capacitorsettlement/ for the full details, to view the affected TVs or to download a claim form.

In a statement to CNET in our original story, Samsung said "Based on the most current data available, we can confirm that only a small percentage--approximately 1 percent--of all TVs sold in the U.S. during those three years [2006-2008] could exhibit the faulty-capacitor problem." It claims that the warranty extension applies to more than 7.5 million TVs, an number that is, according to Samsung, much larger than that 1 percent figure.

Judging from some complaints in the comments to our story , however, as well as on Web sites like consumeraffairs.com, the issue may extend beyond the models and the years covered in the settlement.

Samsung officially denies the complaints in the suit:

The class action lawsuit alleges a defect that may cause the television to experience symptoms such as not turning on, experiencing a delay in turning on, making a clicking sound, cycling on and off, or other similar problems. Samsung denies the allegations in the lawsuit, but has agreed to settle the lawsuit to avoid the costs and uncertainty of continued litigation.

What do you think? Are you an owner of one of the affected TVs who qualifies for a benefit? Are you worried (or not) about your newer Samsung TV? Does the company's response make you more likely or less likely to buy a Samsung TV in the future? Let us know in comments.
Since the settlement has been resolved they took the site down...
http://web.archive.org/web/201202231...itorsettlement
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Old 09-13-2014, 03:34 AM   #332
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Would the fact that SAMSUNG set up a website to deal with their plague of faulty capacitors be good enough for you? Wow.. Since the settlement has been resolved they took the site down...
A "plague of faulty capacitors" is a different context than "capacitor plague". Context is everything. You can be plagued by something, without having a case of an actual plague (disease, usually highly infectious/contagious).

I'll stick with labeling the bucket I throw bad caps into as "bad". If I see a pattern, I might sort a few aside for my own reference purposes. If you want to throw your bad ones into a biohazard bin, go right ahead.
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Old 09-13-2014, 10:12 PM   #333
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No one, to the best of my knowledge, has suggested that this was something calling for actual involvement by the CDC or the NIH. The use of "disease" and "plague" was colloquial, and the use of "capacitor plague" in reference to the flooding of the supply chain during a certain period with caps a great deal more prone to early failure than usual, was, I assume, done so by whoever coined the phrase to specifically refer to that phenomenon which is widely suspected to have been caused by incompetent industrial espionage, although the across the board desire to save face (in this case merely co-incidental to geographical location--US companies don't like to admit anyone managed to steal any of their stuff, or that they stole anyone else's, either) means we almost certainly will never know for sure if that was the cause.

I have previously mentioned the "capacitor plague" phenomena so as to re-assure TiVo owners who aren't normally involved in electronics troubleshooting and repair that their S2 or S3 TiVo is not a "hunk of junk" but rather an otherwise reasonably good quality piece of gear which fell victim to something pretty much, for all practical purposes, out of TiVo, Inc.'s control or ability to forsee, something to which many other makers of consumer electronics fell victim as well.
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Old 09-14-2014, 10:17 AM   #334
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Replaced mine friday night and now it's working beautifully...like new..

When i first plugged it in it thought it was 2002 and had to do a loooong update
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Old 09-17-2014, 11:46 AM   #335
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To add a data point, I replaced the caps in my TiVo S3 TCDE648250, last Friday 12Sept14.

This unit has been in continuous service since Jan 2007.
The 2200mF 25v cap was the only one that had the typical domed top.
I saw no evidence of leakage of any cap or other component.

Far as problems related to cap failure:
A couple years back I installed a dvr_dude 2tb drive.
At that time the capacitors all looked a-ok, so I put off, the inevitable...
Since that drive was installed, random pauses during playback of recorded shows occurred.
On a couple of occasions at the end of a program. Tivo would freeze then reboot.
That happened last week, so I figured it's time
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Old 09-19-2014, 07:07 PM   #336
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Replaced C401, C402, and C601 in Tivo Series 3

Quick thanks to @HerronScott, @schoolbus, and @unitron for especially helpful posts. There are probably others and I thank you as well.

I replaced caps C601-Capxon, C401-OST, and C402-OST (all bulging) on Series 3 yesterday 18-Sep-2014. The unit was probably manufactured in 2006 (the old harddrive that I saved from 2 years ago is dated May 2006). There may be a date on the back of the Tivo but I'm not taking it back out of the entertainment center to find out.

Background: In Oct-2012 the 5 year old Series 2 failed booting or if it did boot would reboot on it's own at random times. The harddrive was definitely bad per the kickstart drive analysis. I did not have a lifetime on it. I had paid $125 for the unit with 1 year of service included in 2007 and paid monthly after year one. Yeah, I know, I probably should have gone lifetime but even at the $13.81 or so a month with tax, it was less than half the cost of a Time Warner DVR and DVR service. I noticed caps were bulging in the series 2 as well but at the time I believe it was harddrive failure. The bulging caps would probably completely die next. So I called Tivo about getting a series 4 which I believe was priced somewhere from $99 to $149 with the USB wireless adapter for "free". I already had an adapter so that wasn't really a deciding factor. Well, this is where the "fun" began. The rep advised me to get the series 4 and then find an old series 3 online and they would put lifetime on the old series 3 for $49.99 since I had the series 2 for so long. So I'd have 2 Tivos, the old series 3 I'd buy and a new series 4 with a reduced monthly fee that was around what I was already paying for the series 2. So I did that. Mistake. Unfortunately the series 3 I bought online for about $112 (no lifetime) with shipping turned out to have a bad harddrive for sure and bulging caps. I could have probably disputed with Amazon since the unit was sold as working. Well, it didn't last a weekend before it started rebooting. But I now had a lifetime on the thing and so I plodded forward. I ordered a pre-imaged Tivo 1 TB (an upgraded size for sure) on ebay for $149 and a weakness rebuilt power supply for $149.99 which ended up being about $109 after you pay to ship the old one back to get the $50 "deposit" back. I know, I could have imaged my own disk and installed my own caps but I just didn't feel like messing with it. So, here we are 23 months later. The used series 3 with the lifetime, 2 year old harddrive and 23 month old weekness rebuilt power supply had a picture flicker which some characterize as wavy white lines in the picture. And the picture seems to have a lot of "faint noise" almost like what we used to call "snow", it was light snow but I thought it was strange on digital cable channels. The rest of the household thought the rear screen projection TV was going out but I was pretty sure it was the Tivo since neither the DVD nor the Wii inputs had the same issues. So last Saturday I open up the Tivo and the C601, C401, and C402 caps were bulging. I put the Tivo back together and hoped it would make it a week more with a not so great picture but it wouldn't boot past the Welcome screen. I guess not having power on it for 30-60 minutes killed the bulging caps. I ordered the 11 caps mentioned in this thread from Digikey, and soldering iron and supplies through Amazon with a free prime trial. I ordered the caps first class mail and the rest of the stuff Monday. Digikey is fantastic, they ship mail out next day (UPS and Fedex go out same day but cost more). The Amazon order was here Wednesday as expected and the caps got here Thursday. Digikey is in MN. They traveled from MN to ND day 1 in the mail (tue-wed). And from ND to TX and were delivered day 2 (wed-thu). I put the Cnnn numbers in the customer reference field so each capacitor type was in it's own labeled bag. They charged less than $3 for first class shipping which was less than another major supply house here in Texas. Thumbs up to Digikey and the United States Post Office.

I have no soldering skills. I managed to get the 3 bulging replaced without burning myself, the circuit board or the kitchen table. I still have no soldering skills, I completely suck at it. There was some bitching and moaning. But the series 3 now works. No wavy lines and no "snow" in the picture. Score (about time).

Wrap-Up: weakness had apparently not completely recapped the rebuilt power supply with quality caps. I cannot tell what caps they replaced (if any - I'm guessing the OST are the replacements by weakness). Caps C401, C402, C403, C501, C502 and C504 are/were OST brand, the rest are/were Capxon. C401, C402, and C601 were all bulging and replaced with Panasonics. I am saving the other 8 caps ordered in case they start bulging. For $99.99 one might expect (I do anyway) that known defective brand caps should be replaced. Anyone more handy with a soldering iron could no doubt have replaced all 11 (and probably the full 15) in less time than it took me to do 3. Weakness now wants $199.99 instead of $149.99 for a rebuilt power supply and you get back $100 if they accept your board so it's still $99.99 in the end. I guess I was really lucky to get 23 months which was probably more like 21 or 22 because we've had the less than stellar picture for a while now. Others have gotten as little as 6 months. I give weakness a thumbs down in this case and Tivo support a thumbs down for even mentioning getting a used series 3 in the first place. If you do the math, I think I could have had a new series 4 with lifetime for I've paid (or close to it) in this fiasco. Oh, and I didn't keep the series 4 I ordered at the start of this fiasco. Sorry for the length of this post. I hope someone finds it amusing. I'm sure I will, in time.

Any similarity of names mentioned to persons or organizations living or dead is purely coincidental.

Last edited by ch421 : 09-20-2014 at 07:32 PM. Reason: Fix title
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Old 09-23-2014, 06:17 AM   #337
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Sorry, but the 300+ posts, it's a little hard to read them all if this has been asked before as a fast skim didn't turn up anything.

For the 652 (not the 648 series 3) are there just two variations of the PS? That heftier 3Y version and the whimpy ACBell version, or are there more?
Also, can you tell which is in the box by the TSN?
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Old 09-24-2014, 03:01 AM   #338
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Sorry, but the 300+ posts, it's a little hard to read them all if this has been asked before as a fast skim didn't turn up anything.

For the 652 (not the 648 series 3) are there just two variations of the PS? That heftier 3Y version and the whimpy ACBell version, or are there more?
Also, can you tell which is in the box by the TSN?
TiVo might be able to dig through old records to figure out whether a particular 652/658 left the factory with which one of those 2 supplies ((I've never seen or heard of a third), but we mere mortals have to rely upon our eyeballs and a #10 Torx driver.
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Old 10-11-2014, 11:15 PM   #339
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Great thread. My situation: I have a TCD648250B Series 3 that loops at the welcome screen. Figured the drive had gone. Figured if I was wrong I wouldn't mind having a higher capacity drive. So I replaced it. Still loops at welcome screen.

Eventually found info on the power supplies and I think I have one or two slightly bulging caps, and apparently that can cause the behavior I observe.

I used to do a small bit of electronics as a kid and have a very novice understanding only at this point. It's been 30+ years since I've soldered anything but I'm going to give it a go. Anyway...

watched the movie linked to on page 1 of this thread. Movie: at youtube link /v/Ckpz0vI32c0 (I don't have enough posts to do links).

Very helpful but I have a question... how do you get the existing capacitors out before putting the new ones in? I haven't removed the power supply board yet. Do I melt the solder on the bottom of the board where the capacitor join? In the movie it looks like he just snaps them out but I don't understand why that would work.

Thanks for your advice!
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Old 10-11-2014, 11:53 PM   #340
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Basically there are two ways to remove solder. By suction using a hand 'solder sucker' or a vacuum pump solder station. The cheaper way is with "solder wick". I like using a solder sucker, but neither method usually removes all the residual solder unless you are really good or really lucky.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Desoldering
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Old 10-12-2014, 08:59 AM   #341
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Originally Posted by floppymoose View Post
Very helpful but I have a question... how do you get the existing capacitors out before putting the new ones in? I haven't removed the power supply board yet. Do I melt the solder on the bottom of the board where the capacitor join? In the movie it looks like he just snaps them out but I don't understand why that would work.

Thanks for your advice!
I definitely recommend the solder sucker over soldering wick.



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Old 10-12-2014, 10:15 AM   #342
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I have one of those for I bet 20 years now. There is also a smaller brother to that, but this has more suction which is the key.
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Old 10-12-2014, 10:29 AM   #343
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floppymoose View Post
....... how do you get the existing capacitors out before putting the new ones in? I haven't removed the power supply board yet. Do I melt the solder on the bottom of the board where the capacitor join? .......
First I add my vote to solder suckers over wicking --- maybe just my poor technique but I never had much luck with wick.

Here's what I recommend:
General warning: Try to minimize stress and heat on the printed circuit board at all times.
1. Heat the solder pad at each cap lead wire (on the underside of board) enough to melt the solder (but not any more than that) and use the sucker to remove as much solder as possible. Do this for both leads of the cap.
2. If there is enough lead wire exposed to make it practical, snip the excess lead.
3. Now heat each pad just enough to melt while rocking and gently pulling on the cap. Alternate this between the two leads and repeat until the cap is free.
4. Use heat and sucker to clean the through holes to facilitate inserting the new cap. (Observe polarity!)
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Old 10-12-2014, 01:33 PM   #344
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I have one of those for I bet 20 years now. There is also a smaller brother to that, but this has more suction which is the key.
Agreed! I had no problems with mine removing the solder in one shot on both of our S3's. I do have a standard Weller soldering station which may have helped in insuring that all the solder was melted though.

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Old 10-12-2014, 02:15 PM   #345
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thanks folks. unitron's post at the end of thread 512145 also has good advice on both removing the old caps and on what equipment i should be looking for for installing the new caps.
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Old 10-19-2014, 02:30 AM   #346
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Adding another report of a 200V 470uf failing on a tivoHD power supply.

Supply had previously been repaired several years ago by replacing C403 and C503, but had died again.

Replaced ALL the caps with new ones. Interestingly, the only cap that actually tested as bad this round was the large 200v 470 uF. It was completely open circuit on an ESR meter.
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Old 10-23-2014, 05:16 AM   #347
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Is this the correct thread for repairing a TiVo Series 3 HD DVR TCD-648250B
that has a clicking noise coming from the power supply and lines on the TV in time with the clicking. I looked at the capacitors and none are bulging or look like they are leaking.

Last edited by replaytv : 10-23-2014 at 05:41 PM.
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Old 10-23-2014, 07:33 AM   #348
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If it is the capacitors, here's the list for the ones that are tend to fail.

http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...93#post9131293

There have been reports of the large 470uF 200V capacitor also failing recently but I don't have an equivalent part number for that one yet.

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Old 10-24-2014, 07:11 AM   #349
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Is this the correct thread for repairing a TiVo Series 3 HD DVR TCD-648250B
that has a clicking noise coming from the power supply and lines on the TV in time with the clicking. I looked at the capacitors and none are bulging or look like they are leaking.
Try disconnecting the power and data plug from the hard drive (after properly shutting down the TiVo--find the menu item that says "restart", do the 3 thumbs down and hit the little Enter button at the bottom right of the remote, then pull the plug from the wall socket before it can reboot).

Then plug the power cord back in (you'll get the Welcome screen but it'll never move on from that).

Does it still click?

If not, maybe it's the drive that's clicking, or maybe lowering the current demand on the power supply makes the difference in whether it clicks.

Hook the drive up to a PC's power cable (not data, just power) and see if the drive clicks. If it doesn't, then chances are the power supply is headed downhill, although I'd confirm that with a voltmeter reading on the yellow (+12V) and red (+5V) wires.
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Old 11-03-2014, 03:51 PM   #350
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Just a quick thank you to everyone who helped me with my bad series 3 HD power supply. I ordered all the replacement capacitors, bought the desoldering thingy (and a new soldering iron because the one I had was low watt) from RadShack and relpaced the two capacitors that were visibly bad. I thought about replacing them all but I'm inexperienced enough that the first two were hard enough. I also tried the soldering wick for removing solder and that was useless. But the RadShack de-solderer actually worked a little better than I expected. Melting in some new solder seemed to help.

Various difficulties I hit along the way that others may want to think about if they do the same thing:

* read the fine print on soldering iron packaging. the first soldering iron I bought had packaging which implied 60 watt, but it was an 18 watt iron.

* some of the capacitors are glued to other parts. One of the two I replaced was under a heat sink and glued to another part. It was easy to seperate them once I figured out a good technique (crush glue with needlenose pliers) but before I got that far I think I stressed the other part enough that I popped the solder off the back of the board for one of it's connections. I think that sounds unlikely but I have no other explanation for why I later discovered that part had one unsoldered connection on the back.

* I wish I knew enough about boards to know why there are giant bands of solder material running around on the back that are less than 1 millimeter from the thing you need to solder. Why couldn't the freakin quarter inch band of solder have been a bit narrower and provided more space from stuff it isn't supposed to touch? On my first attempt to test my work the power supply just clicked. I don't know much but I know that means a short. That was when I found the unsoldered component and also noticed one of my newly installed capacitors had solder that was touching one of those bands. I fixed both as best I could and tried again.

* second test was better, no clicking. Tivo got as far as Ready Set Tivo on front panel but never farther and black screen. I read around some more here and learned that you should get the Welcome screen even with no drive, and also that for some reason I don't grok that composite video was being recommended as the startup tv connection rather than hdmi. So I did both of those and got the welcome screen.

* that was a good sign for motherboard and power supply health, so then I reattached the drive but left it on composite video and tried again. Bingo! I got through guided setup.

* I had replaced the drive earler before learning it was the power supply, so the drive was new. After getting through guided setup I got the hardware error 51. Which it appears means the drive had content that was from another tivo - probably from whatever test setup dvrdaddy uses to setup the drives. So then I had to go through guided setup again after choosing "Delete all contents" from the Reset menu.

Now everything seems to be working great. It took lots of reading, multiple tool runs, and multiple tries given my limited skillset, but I stuck with it and it seems to have paid off.

By the way, check out the Hakko 808 Desoldering Gun if you are doing this a lot. It was out of my price range given I wass repairing a single tivo, but that thing looks cool for pros. There are some videos on youtube that make it look pretty neato. I don't have personal experience with it, though.
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Old 11-03-2014, 05:46 PM   #351
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Yeah, the Radio Shack soldering irons are about the same as anyone else's cheap soldering irons, which makes them usable, and the de-soldering iron that has the bulb that looks like it came off a turkey baster is actually not a bad piece of gear, but the de-soldering braid they switched to a few years ago is just a waste of whatever it's made from.

The thing to do is get the bad caps out and de-solder the holes they were in as fully as possible.

Then put the new cap leads through the board, observing polarity, and heat up one of the leads and the copper around the hole, and then feed the solder against the lead and the copper around the hole, letting them melt it, rather than the iron. You'll get less of a glob that way.
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Old 11-05-2014, 01:02 PM   #352
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wow! you inspired me. my S3 648-series isn't turning on after getting unplugged and i'm thinking it's a power supply issue. time to open it up...

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Now everything seems to be working great. It took lots of reading, multiple tool runs, and multiple tries given my limited skillset, but I stuck with it and it seems to have paid off.

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