Hatfields & McCoys on The History Channel - Page 6

RonDawg · 06-03-2012, 10:11 AM

I agree with Toni and Rob...both sides are equally guilty, though the Hatfields had meaner people. Jim Vance was by far the worst, but even Devll Anse himself ended up being someone worthy of going to hell when he denied any mercy to the 3 McCoy boys despite the pleas of both their father and mother. Plus, remember the scene near the beginning (and was used in the trailers) when Devil Anse killed the second boy in the Union uniform, simply because he didn't want any witnesses? Randall McCoy had a relative who fought for the Union and did nothing to him, unlike Jim Vance. Devil Anse also threw Cotton Top "under the bus" (yes I know there were no buses back then) rather than try to plea for his release.

As far as Randall McCoy running out the back door, he originally did not want to do that. His wife and the one son who was eventually killed in front convinced him to do that. The reasoning behind it was that it was hoped if Randall was not there, the Hatfield posse would go away and leave the rest of the family alone. However when the Hatfields set fire to the house, everything changed, and even Jim Vance admitted to Devil Anse that things turned out badly.

Family · 06-03-2012, 10:26 AM

It seemed the McCoys were painted as mostly idiots or mentally ill. Those three boys locked up calling for Pa appeared to be a bunch of fools. And the senior McCoys were dillusional.

RonDawg · 06-03-2012, 10:39 AM

The only McCoy that I thought would have any sort of mental illness was Randall himself, and it was clearly PTSD from the war and being a POW. That could explain why he had that "They're out to get me" mentality and definitely a factor in how he became an alcoholic.

Rob Helmerichs · 06-03-2012, 01:23 PM

The documentary that was cited earlier is interesting (so far...I'm only a half-hour into it) in its discussion of the feud's origins. Basically, everybody agrees that nobody has a clue what started it, but it must have had something to do with the Civil War because before that the families coexisted in peace for a half century, and then all hell breaks loose.

They also played a little game with the infuriating tendency of shows like this to present an expert giving a controversial theory as if it's established fact, and then not giving any kind of context for the theory. On the question of the McCoys' allegiances during the Civil War, they had one expert categorically state that while a few were Union soldiers, most were Confederate sympathizers, followed immediately by another expert who categorically stated that they were all Union men.

But then they lost points by suggesting that Devil Anse took part in the first murder (of the Union McCoy), when everything I've seen (not much, granted) says that it was conclusively proven that he was home sick when the murder took place.

2004raptor · 06-03-2012, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cearbhaill

The History Channel is airing a documentary tomorrow June 2 at 4pm est- America's Greatest Feud: The History of the Hatfields and McCoys.
Two hours, made in 2012 so seems to be new.

forgot about this. Anyone know if it will re-air? I can't find it on there site.

kilcher · 06-03-2012, 02:38 PM

I've only skimmed a few pages of this thread because we're only half way through the first part but...

Does anyone know why the language was edited? Seems kind of silly since I believe this is the first time it's aired anywhere.

mike_k · 06-03-2012, 03:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilcher

I've only skimmed a few pages of this thread because we're only half way through the first part but...

Does anyone know why the language was edited? Seems kind of silly since I believe this is the first time it's aired anywhere.

I haven't noticed language being edited - which words?

Rob Helmerichs · 06-03-2012, 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RonDawg

As far as Randall McCoy running out the back door, he originally did not want to do that. His wife and the one son who was eventually killed in front convinced him to do that. The reasoning behind it was that it was hoped if Randall was not there, the Hatfield posse would go away and leave the rest of the family alone. However when the Hatfields set fire to the house, everything changed, and even Jim Vance admitted to Devil Anse that things turned out badly.

According to the documentary, Randolph didn't leave until the house was on fire, the girl and boy were dead, and his wife was beaten nearly to death and left for dead. Then and only then did he run away.

dthmj · 06-03-2012, 06:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kilcher

I've only skimmed a few pages of this thread because we're only half way through the first part but...

Does anyone know why the language was edited? Seems kind of silly since I believe this is the first time it's aired anywhere.

We recorded a 4pm re-airing of the first part and the words were bleeped. But the other two were recorded during prime time and nothing was bleeped. I thought it was because of the time slot of the re-airing.

Cearbhaill · 06-04-2012, 05:45 AM

I read on another forum that the first airings had a longer scene or two as well as being the only ones not bleeped.
I haven't compared two recordings to see but they had examples.

Rob Helmerichs · 06-04-2012, 07:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cearbhaill

I read on another forum that the first airings had a longer scene or two as well as being the only ones not bleeped.
I haven't compared two recordings to see but they had examples.

The first airings ran a few minutes over, so if subsequent airings were exactly two hours I doubt they made up the difference by cutting commercials...

netringer · 06-04-2012, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zordude

Before watching I did not know the two families were based in different states.

I want to know how the families kept meeting up at voting sites when they were in different states.

dthmj · 06-04-2012, 10:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by netringer

I want to know how the families kept meeting up at voting sites when they were in different states.

The little bit of the documentary I saw said that it was common for people from out of state to come to the election meetings even if they couldn't vote. It was a social time and they often had family in the other state.

Remember, this was on the border of the states, so it was just across the river.

markz · 06-04-2012, 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by netringer

I want to know how the families kept meeting up at voting sites when they were in different states.

I am pretty sure that from what I read and saw on a documentary, that even though each family was largely from different states, there were some of each family on either side of the state line.

The families lived in relative harmony before the civil war and for the 13 years between Asa Hatfiled's murder and the pig incident.

There was also more inter-marrying between the two families than what was shown on the miniseries.

Some of the McCoys even worked for the Hatfield lumber business at one time.

Kamakzie · 06-04-2012, 01:09 PM

I just watched the re-airs, very fascinating and sad. Did the real Randall McCoy die in that fashion or was that creative license?

stujac · 06-04-2012, 01:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamakzie

I just watched the re-airs, very fascinating and sad. Did the real Randall McCoy die in that fashion or was that creative license?

I believe it was discussed earlier in this thread but he did die as a result of the fire but he was not engulfed as shown in the show. He was in his 80's.

dthmj · 06-04-2012, 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kamakzie

I just watched the re-airs, very fascinating and sad. Did the real Randall McCoy die in that fashion or was that creative license?

He died when he fell in a cooking fire - can't find any evidence that he was burning papers related to the feud.

mattack · 06-04-2012, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rob Helmerichs

The first airings ran a few minutes over, so if subsequent airings were exactly two hours I doubt they made up the difference by cutting commercials...

I already said that earlier in the thread! The first 2 airings of the first episode, and I THINK the second episode, were a bit over 2 hours.. (I think 2:06 for the first ep, 2:10ish for the 2nd).

The documentary was somewhat interesting.. When I heard Costner, I thought immediately it was JUST going to be an ad for the miniseries, using clips from the miniseries.. But it didn't. It had more detail in some areas (family tree, exact years) than the miniseries.

RonDawg · 06-04-2012, 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dthmj

The little bit of the documentary I saw said that it was common for people from out of state to come to the election meetings even if they couldn't vote. It was a social time and they often had family in the other state.

Remember, this was on the border of the states, so it was just across the river.

In addition, the Hatfields and the McCoys (and others) sold merchandise (moonshine in particular) at these events. I called them "carnivals" earlier but they were closer to that than elections.

If Amway and Tupperware were around back then, I'm sure the families would be selling these too.

Cearbhaill · 06-07-2012, 07:33 PM

Oh dear- someone is doing a "Hatfield vs. McCoy" reality show...

http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/A...157793725.html

"A new unscripted TV show is looking for descendants of the Hatfield and McCoy clans.
The show will put members of the two families against one another in a competition."

Kamakzie · 06-07-2012, 09:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cearbhaill

Oh dear- someone is doing a "Hatfield vs. McCoy" reality show...

http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/A...157793725.html

"A new unscripted TV show is looking for descendants of the Hatfield and McCoy clans.
The show will put members of the two families against one another in a competition."

Sounds like a great idea... what could possibly go wrong?

kilcher · 06-10-2012, 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike_k

I haven't noticed language being edited - which words?

Might have been the timeslot as others have mentioned. We recorded all 3 in one night - the first had some things edited out but the second didn't and it would have aired later in the evening. Just bits of curse words muted out here and there.

markz · 06-10-2012, 05:21 PM

Just watched the whole thing and the documentary today for the second time so my wife could watch it. She really enjoyed it too.

We are thinking about doing the driving tour of the area later this summer or fall. Anyone else do that yet? It's about 3.5 hour from us.

TonyD79 · 06-12-2012, 07:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cearbhaill

Oh dear- someone is doing a "Hatfield vs. McCoy" reality show...

http://www.wsaz.com/news/headlines/A...157793725.html

"A new unscripted TV show is looking for descendants of the Hatfield and McCoy clans.
The show will put members of the two families against one another in a competition."

Didn't Family Feud already do this?

mwhip · 06-13-2012, 08:28 AM

I think what amazes me is the amount of lawlessness. Not only did they decide to take matters into their own hands but they had total disregard for the law afterward. "Well they killed my brother so I am going to kill them". I sure am glad I did not live back then.

Rob Helmerichs · 06-13-2012, 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mwhip

I think what amazes me is the amount of lawlessness. Not only did they decide to take matters into their own hands but they had total disregard for the law afterward. "Well they killed my brother so I am going to kill them". I sure am glad I did not live back then.

Or at least that you didn't kill their brother...

sieglinde · 06-13-2012, 08:50 AM

There were not many police forces so people took matters into their own hands. I suspect this feud came from their culture.

Wilbrad · 11-22-2012, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cearbhaill

A lot was changed but IMO not to the point where it affected the story. For example the Wall Hatfield (Powers Boothe) character was a compilation of two Hatfield judges/magistrates- "Preacher Anse" Hatfield and Walls "Deacon" Hatfield.

"Desertion" is hard to figure- from my own family letters I know that my ancestors from this area regularly stopped fighting in the war to go back home for a spell. When the crop was in or the baby born they went back to fighting. They literally took vacations from the war.
If you browse through the muster rolls you see them present, not present, and back and forth.

The real reason I popped back in here is to tell y'all that The History Channel is airing a documentary tomorrow June 2 at 4pm est- America's Greatest Feud: The History of the Hatfields and McCoys.
Two hours, made in 2012 so seems to be new.

I wouldn't put much faith in the History Channel when it comes to accuracy. They've just run a series called "The Men Who Built America," and it was apparently almost all fiction. I googled the name of the series plus "accurate," and there are several blogs that point out all the inaccuracies.

DavidJL · 11-22-2012, 10:02 PM

Really liked the mini-series. I knew Kevin Costner and Bill Paxton were in it and recognized them of course as well as many others, but I had no idea Tom Berenger was in it doing a great job playing the despicable Jim Vance until well after the mini-series was over. What a great acting job, reminds me of him in Platoon.