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Old 08-21-2014, 02:54 PM   #7081
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Quote:
Originally Posted by elprice7345 View Post
I know pytivo won't upload shows that use unicode character U+2019 (’), described as "right single quotation mark", that sometimes appears in TiVo metadata.
This is news to me. You're saying that the U+2019 originated on the TiVo? (Transferred by KMTTG, or...?) And when you try to transfer it back, you get what error?
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Old 08-21-2014, 11:41 PM   #7082
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Originally Posted by elprice7345 View Post
Something else to check into: the TiVo "ecosystem" can hiccup on different characters in the unicode universe.

I know pytivo won't upload shows that use unicode character U+2019 (’), described as "right single quotation mark", that sometimes appears in TiVo metadata. I have to replace it with unicode character U+0027 ('), "apostrophe".

It could be that one of your apostrophes isn't exactly an apostrophe.
All of my keyboards have (') on the same key as ("), and (`) is on the same key as (~). I cant find any "left" or "right" versions, and am not sure what the (`) is meant to be, since there's no opposite for it.
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Old 08-22-2014, 01:39 AM   #7083
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
All of my keyboards have (') on the same key as ("), and (`) is on the same key as (~). I cant find any "left" or "right" versions, and am not sure what the (`) is meant to be, since there's no opposite for it.
There are lots of characters that are not normally on a standard PC keyboard.
With Numlock on, hold ALT and using the number pad on the right only (top row numbers won't work), then release ALT after...

0145 gives you ‘ left single quote
0146 is ’ Right single quote.

as opposed to ' (apostrophe) and `

For example, ‘Tivo’ , `Tivo', “Tivo”
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Old 08-22-2014, 03:05 AM   #7084
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ThAbtO View Post
There are lots of characters that are not normally on a standard PC keyboard.
With Numlock on, hold ALT and using the number pad on the right only (top row numbers won't work), then release ALT after...

0145 gives you ‘ left single quote
0146 is ’ Right single quote.

as opposed to ' (apostrophe) and `

For example, ‘Tivo’ , `Tivo', “Tivo”
Brings back memories of running a BBS.

I just meant to say ... I guess kind of the obvious...
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Old 08-22-2014, 05:45 AM   #7085
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
All of my keyboards have (') on the same key as ("), and (`) is on the same key as (~). I cant find any "left" or "right" versions, and am not sure what the (`) is meant to be, since there's no opposite for it.
The "opposite" of the left quote is the right quote ’
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Old 08-22-2014, 06:25 AM   #7086
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There are two different characters ... ` and ‘

Yup, two different characters there... U+0060 and U+2018.

U+0060 has no "opposite".
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Old 08-22-2014, 06:45 AM   #7087
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There are two different characters ... ` and ‘

Yup, two different characters there... U+0060 and U+2018.

U+0060 has no "opposite".
U+0060 is an accent grave. And it sorta does have an "opposite", the accent egu ´
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Old 08-22-2014, 09:32 AM   #7088
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I was just wondering why there is a ( ` ) key, on the same key as ( ~ ) but no key, or Shift+key on the keyboard that is the opposite "slant" orientation, for the first one. The two don't seem related, unlike how there are neutral ( ' ) & ( " ) on the same key, useable on both ends of things.

So, what is the proper use for ( ` ), which doesn't require the Shift key, like the ( ~ ) character does (which I get ~99.999999% more use of)? Of all the characters that could have been placed on that key, along with ( ~ ), why ( ` )?

I really don't expect answers. I'm sorry I brought it up, in the first place. It just seemed like a good time, since special characters were being discussed, and how special characters found in recording metadata can't be used in a filename (or can, but will cause problems for programs that don't recognize/allow it, etc).
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Old 08-22-2014, 09:49 AM   #7089
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Man, the transfer bug is really starting to get annoying and happening more frequently. Anyone heard if Tivo plans to fix this? I understand it affects TivoDesktop as well.
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Old 08-22-2014, 10:43 AM   #7090
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Man, the transfer bug is really starting to get annoying and happening more frequently. Anyone heard if Tivo plans to fix this? I understand it affects TivoDesktop as well.
Eh, could you be more specific? I don't know what "the transfer bug" is, and I kinda doubt others do, either.
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Old 08-22-2014, 11:46 AM   #7091
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He's probably talking about the partial transfer bug where TiVo server just stops transferring the file even though it's not finished. Sometimes toggling between PS and TS container can make a difference, but most often not.
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Old 08-22-2014, 12:58 PM   #7092
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wmcbrine View Post
This is news to me. You're saying that the U+2019 originated on the TiVo? (Transferred by KMTTG, or...?) And when you try to transfer it back, you get what error?
I don't remember where I got the 2019 character from, TiVo or other sources and I don't see it very often.

I found the bug a while back and believe that when the character was in the show's filename, pytivo wouldn't pull the show to my Premiere.

I just tried to pull a show to my Premiere with a U+2019 character in the file name and it transferred correctly, so maybe it's no longer an issue or I'm not remembering correctly.

It definitely was a problem in the past, because I built a query specifically to look for that unicode character in video file names. I would find files with that character and replace the character with a normal apostrophe.

Sorry to create a tangent on this post.
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Old 08-22-2014, 02:09 PM   #7093
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Originally Posted by nooneuknow View Post
I was just wondering why there is a ( ` ) key, on the same key as ( ~ ) but no key, or Shift+key on the keyboard that is the opposite "slant" orientation, for the first one. The two don't seem related, unlike how there are neutral ( ' ) & ( " ) on the same key, useable on both ends of things.

So, what is the proper use for ( ` ), which doesn't require the Shift key, like the ( ~ ) character does (which I get ~99.999999% more use of)? Of all the characters that could have been placed on that key, along with ( ~ ), why ( ` )?
Well, in UNIX shells, "`" runs the command surrounded by them and replaces the output of that command in the command. It's very useful.

It's an accent character used in some foreign languages.

But to be serious, presumably when they were designing the 'standard' English keyboard, they had a few extra key places, and put a few of the more common foreign accents/characters there, e.g. ~. (Yes, both are sort of strange because on computers, they print as a separate character, but on a typewriter of course, you would literally go back a space and print this character on top of the previous character, thus getting a tilde-n for Spanish for example.)
Or actually, I guess that's a better reason -- they just copied typewriters, and left the characters there, even though you can't overwrite on a screen like you can do on paper.

I've had the foreign character problem a lot.. What I notice is that I think the metadata file gets the foreign character properly, but the download itself DOESN'T, so kmttg keeps downloading over and over and over until it gives up. So I have to watch it, and stop it before it tries to download again, because it properly downloaded.

It's annoying enough that I've thought about trying to find the cause.
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Old 08-22-2014, 07:34 PM   #7094
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Originally Posted by wmcbrine View Post
Eh, could you be more specific? I don't know what "the transfer bug" is, and I kinda doubt others do, either.
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Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
He's probably talking about the partial transfer bug where TiVo server just stops transferring the file even though it's not finished. Sometimes toggling between PS and TS container can make a difference, but most often not.
Yes thats the one, does this affect premiers and roamios equally?
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Old 08-22-2014, 07:47 PM   #7095
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Yes.. Are you referring to when there is a *glitch* in the recording? That's not a justification (IMHO), but seems to be the real world answer to what's happening.

I presume some part of the TTG software just isn't well written enough to deal with some sort of an error in the stream.. since obviously you can still play it 'live', and even transfer it to another Tivo.
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Old 08-22-2014, 08:50 PM   #7096
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Top-quoting so it will be easier for everyone to ignore the quoted parts, which are long.

I'm still seeing problems with VLC mis-reporting the running times of recordings that I've transferred with kmttg. I will check my configs, but I should have it set up to use QS Fix as suggested earlier by moyekj.

One of my recent transfers of a half-hour show reports a realistic running time in Explorer (usually a minute off from what the TiVo says) but VLC says it is 6 minutes long. Media Player HC also reports a running time close to what the TiVo says. When I do a spot check of the beginning and the end of the show, I am seeing the same scenes on both the TiVo and the PC.

I'm posting this in case other people see the same problem. I'm wondering now if some of the programs which I thought were "glitched" and truncated (because of the transfer bug) are actually okay, and the real problem is with the running time reported by VLC.

I am a bit concerned that QS Fix isn't running to completion, because I've had some problems lately due to letting my hard drive on the PC get too full. If I see the error again after I've cleared some space, I'll capture the error message and post it here.

If anyone has any suggestions for debugging, I'll be glad to hear them. But I've also had trouble playing DVDs on the computer with VLC (VLC doesn't play audio, MPC-HC does), so I'm wondering if I shouldn't set Media Player Classic HC as my default player and just be done with it.

Just wanted to post this as a timestamp for when I saw the problem, and as a caution to others -- if you see something funny, try playing your recording with another player. These were the mpeg files, allegedly qsfixed -- VLC has been puking on my *.tivo recordings even though I thought I had the right codecs installed.

Thanks again to innocentfreak for the recommendation of Media Player Classic, and to moyekj for reminding me to use QS Fix.


Quote:
Originally Posted by murgatroyd View Post
After transferring files with kmttg, I generally do a quick check of the mpeg file outputted by kmttg to make sure the entire recording was transferred before I delete the original file from my TiVo. Usually this means opening the qsfixed mpeg file with VLC and checking a couple of points in the recording to see that it looks okay, and comparing the scenes at the very end to make sure the file wasn't truncated.

I transferred the Opening Ceremony of the current Winter Olympics (with padding, the duration was 4:07). The file size reported by my TiVoHD is 6.16 GB.

kmttg's display of the NP List agrees with what the TiVo says, reporting a running time of 4:07 and a size of 6.16 GB.

I opened the file with VLC (2.1.3 Rincewind); the running time of the recording is 41:38.

I said "oh, crap, another glitched recording" and examined the file with the explorer in Windows. The file size reported is 5.81 GB (6,247,352,320 bytes) and the running time 04:07:23.

I had recently installed the K-Lite Codec pack and Media Player Classic (1.7.1.247 (f520e2b) from December 18th last year) so I tried that next. MPC displays the running time of 04:07:23.

This is on my Win8 desktop which has VRD TS 3.20.629 installed, but not TiVo Desktop. (IIRC I had installed the Codec Pack to make up for the lack of TiVo Desktop.) I am only using VRD TS for QS Fix at the moment; I haven't used it for editing.

So my questions are:

1) Is this expected? That is, as long as the MPC can display the entire recording, and W8 and MPC agree on the running time, should I care what W8 tells me about the file size? How much variation should I expect? (I realize this is an artifact of how the different OSes report the file size.)

2) Which media players are generally the most robust? (I'm okay with using MPC if I have to, but if there are better players out there, I'd like to know.)

3) Do I need anything else to edit with VideoRedo TS if I don't have TiVo Desktop Plus installed? Because I expect I'll need to edit down some of these recordings real soon now.

I'll go back and read the thread, but if there are things that I can't do with VRD TS because I don't have TiVo Desktop Plus installed, I'd appreciate a pointer to the appropriate thread or a recap. (My previous desktop's hard drive is comatose, and I've been too lazy/busy to call TiVo about retrieving the key for TiVoDesktop Plus for that install; it's old enough that the information is not online.)

Sorry for the off-topic parts of this post, but I wanted to post a caution because I thought at first there might have been an issue with kmttg not transferring the entire recordings. But if MPC can play the file, I guess that kmttg worked fine and the problem is with VLC. If I'm overlooking something or you have other troubleshooting tips, please let me know. Thanks.

P.S. keeping kmttg up to date is so easy now. It's really a pleasure to use, and keeps getting better and better.
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I'd appreciate any insight you guys have about this weird problem.

I usually have kmttg set to generate metadata and decrypt the files with tivodecode. (I have VideoRedo TV Suite but I haven't used it very much.)

IIRC this file was transferred with v1p0d. I just updated the tools this morning when I updated to v1p0e, so I'm not sure which version of tivodecode was used when the jobs were run.

I was transferring an episode of So You Think You Can Dance. The show was 2 hours long. The TiVoHD says that the show is 3.09 GB; kmttg reports that the episode is 3.10 GB. Windows Explorer shows 3,057,635 KB for the .tivo file and 3,057,635 KB for the decrypted .mpeg.
So far so good, right?

Before I delete the original recordings from the TiVoHD, I usually do a spot-check by playing the files; I do a cursory check to make sure the start and end of the recordings match, and check a couple of spots in the middle. If the size looks right and the recording time is okay, I cross my fingers that the inside isn't too glitched and delete the original. On the Windows 8 desktop, I usually play the decrypted file with VLC.

VLC is reporting that this episode is 27 minutes and change. The start of the recording looks like the start. The end looks like the end. None of the other files I've transferred recently report strange running times with VLC.

I haven't done a side-by-side test where I play the recording all the way through on the TiVo and the desktop to see what else might vary. I haven't opened up the file in VideoRedo, or moved it to my XP laptop, where TiVo Desktop is installed, or moved it to my Mac.

At the moment VLC is at 2.0.8 Twoflower, but it also showed the weird running time before VLC was upgraded to this version.

I suspect this is NOT a problem with kmttg but with something in VLC. Obviously I'm not going to find the glitch without playing the show all the way through, and I will test the recording with VideoReDo and the other options I mentioned above. But I wanted to post and see if anyone else has seen anything like this before.

Weird.
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murgatroyd, especially seeing as you have VideoRedo you should always run "QS Fix" step to clean up timestamp issues.
Quote:
Originally Posted by innocentfreak View Post
Might be worth checking to see what Media Player Classic or Media Player Home Cinema Edition show.
Quote:
Originally Posted by murgatroyd View Post
Ran QS Fix and VLC shows 1:59:58 (consistent with other episodes).

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Old 08-22-2014, 08:59 PM   #7097
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Top-quoting so it will be easier for everyone to ignore the quoted parts, which are long.

I'm still seeing problems with VLC mis-reporting the running times of recordings that I've transferred with kmttg. I will check my configs, but I should have it set up to use QS Fix as suggested earlier by moyekj.
I really should ignore this, since top posting is evil..

But VLC has supposedly fixed this, due to a bug I reported. (USE THEIR SITE TO REPORT BUGS YOU FIND... that is true with ALL software/hardware)

I used a daily build to verify on at least a few recordings that I have. They said it would be in the next iOS version sometime this month, I tested it on a Mac daily build as I said.

So it presumably will be in the next mainstream release on all OSes, but you can use the daily build now if you're willing to try it.
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Old 08-23-2014, 03:46 AM   #7098
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Just curious, as another Netgear user: Is this a wireless condition, or is it wired (or some combination of both)?
Combo... The first computer that stop being accessible to the rest of the network was a wired WinXP box. It could still surf the net and all but networking wasn't working until I rebooted the router.

Then it happened with my Linux box which is also wired.

This time it was my premier that is wireless.

Again, they can all reach the internet and seem otherwise normal but they're not accessible via my LAN until I reboot the router. Kind of a frustration bug for a network that otherwise runs hassle free...
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Old 08-23-2014, 05:18 AM   #7099
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I was just wondering why there is a ( ` ) key
All I know is that it is used as the column name quoting character in MySQL. (And no, the egu whatever isn't used in that context.)
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Old 08-23-2014, 09:56 AM   #7100
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v1.1c version release

v1.1c version has been released. See release_notes Wiki for details.
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Old 08-23-2014, 10:13 AM   #7101
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Installed version: v1.1b
Available version: v1.1c
Downloading file: http://sourceforge.net/projects/kmtt...ror=autoselect ...
Connection error: Connection timed out: connect
Installed version: v1.1b
Available version: v1.1c
Downloading file: http://sourceforge.net/projects/kmtt...ror=autoselect ...
Connection error: Connection timed out: connect
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Old 08-23-2014, 10:14 AM   #7102
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Sourceforge site seems very sluggish today. Probably should just wait a day or so before trying to update...
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Old 08-25-2014, 11:56 AM   #7103
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My windows phone doesn't have a good Tivo app and I was thinking about porting the RPC classes from kmttg into a windows 8.1 universal app solution. Has anyone already done this, or tried ? Any known roadblocks or suggestions ?

I would like to try, provided that 1) it hasn't already been done, and 2) the owners of kmttg don't mind.
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Old 08-25-2014, 01:37 PM   #7104
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My windows phone doesn't have a good Tivo app and I was thinking about porting the RPC classes from kmttg into a windows 8.1 universal app solution. Has anyone already done this, or tried ? Any known roadblocks or suggestions ?

I would like to try, provided that 1) it hasn't already been done, and 2) the owners of kmttg don't mind.
I don't mind. Be warned though that the PKCS12 certificate + password needed for RPC have expiration dates. The current one used by kmttg expires I think in June 2015 and it's always a massive PITA to try and reverse engineer a new one. You may want to try and go through official TiVo channels to obtain one for your app (something I have not tried myself for fear of "rocking the boat").
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Old Yesterday, 02:49 AM   #7105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mattack View Post
I really should ignore this, since top posting is evil..
My apologies. I usually don't do it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mattack View Post
But VLC has supposedly fixed this, due to a bug I reported. (USE THEIR SITE TO REPORT BUGS YOU FIND... that is true with ALL software/hardware)

I used a daily build to verify on at least a few recordings that I have. They said it would be in the next iOS version sometime this month, I tested it on a Mac daily build as I said.

So it presumably will be in the next mainstream release on all OSes, but you can use the daily build now if you're willing to try it.
Thanks for the heads-up. I don't mind submitting bug reports when I'm sure that I've found a bug, but I don't like sending in a bug report and then discovering that it was something I screwed up.

I don't think I'll try a daily build until after I've caught back up on my sleep. (Lost several hours because I went to sleep late Saturday night/Sunday morning, then got woken up by the earthquake and couldn't get back to sleep.)
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Old Yesterday, 02:52 AM   #7106
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Saturday night/Sunday morning, then got woken up by the earthquake and couldn't get back to sleep.)
I had not gotten to bed yet when I got the 30 second rock-n-roll, and everything survived.
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Old Today, 09:19 AM   #7107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by moyekj View Post
I don't mind. Be warned though that the PKCS12 certificate + password needed for RPC have expiration dates. The current one used by kmttg expires I think in June 2015 and it's always a massive PITA to try and reverse engineer a new one. You may want to try and go through official TiVo channels to obtain one for your app (something I have not tried myself for fear of "rocking the boat").
At the present time we do not offer certificates for application development. You can definitely request that this ability be added to further improve your TiVo experience in day to day operation with your devices using the below link:

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/168

You can also request a TiVo application for Windows to become available if you would prefer.




any tips on the reverse engineering ?
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Old Today, 09:48 AM   #7108
moyekj
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SugarBowl View Post
At the present time we do not offer certificates for application development.
Well, TCF member arantius, author of Android App TiVo Commander managed to get his own certificate, so you may want to PM him to see how he did it.

Another avenue:
According to TiVo Control API Program Overview document, on page 3 it says this:
Quote:
* A TiVo issued SSL certificate to install on the third party controller
* A web certificate server is required on the third party controller
* A temporary web certificate is issued for development, testing, and certification after a license agreement has been signed
* A production web certificate is issued after TiVo has certified the product based on the tests TiVo provides to the third party
* To request a licensing agreement and a certificate, contact Jermain Anderson
janderson@tivo.com
Please keep me updated if you manage to get something as I'm interested in getting an official certificate as well.
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Last edited by moyekj : Today at 09:54 AM.
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