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Old 03-21-2013, 01:56 PM   #1
skid71
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Seeking Advice & Opinions

Hello all,
I plan on switching to TiVo/Mini setup when (1) dynamic tuner allocation comes along + new TiVo hardware is available or (2) when our current whole-home system dies (Moxi + Moxi Mates)

I have a question regarding MoCa.
Although our current Moxi HDDVR supports MoCA, it cannot act as a bridge/adapter.

Assuming the "new" TiVo hardware will have the same MoCA capabilities as the current TiVo offerings... Can I remove the Netgear MoCA adapter that currently resides next to the Moxi DVR (which will be replaced by the TiVo DVR)?

I was hoping to use the adapter at that location in another bedroom for an additional Mini down the road.

Our current MoCA setup works rather well. We've got three adapters, one at each Moxi/Mate location. I was hoping that the new TiVo would make one of the adapters redundant.

Is this possible, again assuming that MoCA in the new TiVo is implemented/supported the way it currently is?

Thanks for opinions, advice, suggestions, etc.

Skid
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:49 PM   #2
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The current 4-tuner models can act as MoCA bridges, and the Mini's support MoCA out of the box. Assuming you are able to get Ethernet from your router to the 4-tuner, you wouldn't need any MoCA adapters. The Ethernet would feed the 4-tuner, and then putting the 4-tuner in "Bridge Mode" would then establish a MoCA network that the other Mini's could use around the house via a coax connection between the Mini and your coax outlet at the wall at various TVs.

Alternatively, if you can not get Ethernet to the 4-tuner, you'd need one MoCA adapter at your router. You'd run Ethernet from your router to the adapter, and then run coax from the adapter to the nearest coax wall outlet, and that would then give you MoCA connectivity to all devices attached to coax throughout the home.

Finally, assuming the new DVR hardware is equal to the current 4-tuner models for "Bridge Mode," simply replace "4-tuner" with "new DVR" above and it's all the same.
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Old 03-21-2013, 02:50 PM   #3
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http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/moca.html

Have you reviewed this page from Tivo on MOCA? The four tuner model can act as a bridge.
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Old 03-21-2013, 04:14 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tatergator1 View Post
The current 4-tuner models can act as MoCA bridges, and the Mini's support MoCA out of the box. Assuming you are able to get Ethernet from your router to the 4-tuner, you wouldn't need any MoCA adapters. The Ethernet would feed the 4-tuner, and then putting the 4-tuner in "Bridge Mode" would then establish a MoCA network that the other Mini's could use around the house via a coax connection between the Mini and your coax outlet at the wall at various TVs.

Alternatively, if you can not get Ethernet to the 4-tuner, you'd need one MoCA adapter at your router. You'd run Ethernet from your router to the adapter, and then run coax from the adapter to the nearest coax wall outlet, and that would then give you MoCA connectivity to all devices attached to coax throughout the home.

Finally, assuming the new DVR hardware is equal to the current 4-tuner models for "Bridge Mode," simply replace "4-tuner" with "new DVR" above and it's all the same.
Interesting. Just to clarify, the Mini also acts as a MoCA bridge? I don't have a diagram, so I'll describe my setup as best I can.

Basement - Moxi DVR (this location is where the TiVo will go)
Point of entry coax line connects to Netgear MoCA adapter input
MoCA adapter output (coax) to Moxi, Ethernet out from MoCA adapter to Moxi ethernet in

Upstairs - coax into MoCA adapter input, MoCA coax out to Modem in
Modem ethernet out to wireless router in (ethernet)
Ethernet out on router to ethernet in on Moxi Mate (TiVo Mini like device)

Bedroom - coax into MoCA adapter input (no coax output)
Ethernet out on MoCA adapter to ethernet in on Moxi Mate

Again, just for clarification...
I can place the main TiVo in the basement position, connecting only power and coax (removing the MoCA adapter)

Install Mini in the "Upstairs" location, keeping the MoCA adapter in place, connecting power and ethernet from the router

Bedroom location install Mini with only power and coax connections.

Does this sound right?
Possible network overload in my head.

Thanks again for the time and help.

ps... I've read about installing a POE filter. In my setup, where exactly would I install that filter?

Thanks again for helping out a future TiVo user.

Skid
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Old 03-21-2013, 06:36 PM   #5
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Upstairs - coax into MoCA adapter input, MoCA coax out to Modem in
That connection makes no sense whatsoever. What kind of internet service do you have?

Regardless, from this review of the TiVo Mini:

"Unlike the TiVo Premiere with MoCA, the Mini will not function as a MoCA-to-Ethernet bridge."
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Old 03-21-2013, 07:46 PM   #6
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Comcast cable and Internet.
I'm sure I got something backwards in that setup description.
I think I'll just swap out the Moxi for the TiVo and the mates for the minis. Remove the MoCA adapter that connects to the MOXI and put the TiVo in bridge mode.

Appreciate the time and help.

Skid


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Old 03-21-2013, 08:40 PM   #7
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Is your current setup working OK?
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:32 PM   #8
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Interesting. Just to clarify, the Mini also acts as a MoCA bridge?
No, this was indirectly answered above, and I think is clarified at Tivo's page.
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Old 03-21-2013, 09:42 PM   #9
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I use both a Moxi and TiVo. Both have their good and bad traits. From what I was told, the 2 tuner TiVo doesn't have the MoCA capabilities that the 4 tuner models have out of the box, which is why it requires two adapters. From reading the website, if you are going for a 4 tuner model I think it's all included and you wouldn't need any adapters at all, however you may need to use a filter which you already mentioned. According to TiVo's website you would need to put the filter on the cable line coming into the house so either at the ground block outside or before the first splitter inside. http://www.tivo.com/mytivo/howto/moca.html#securemoca http://www.tivo.com/assets/pdfs/myti...stallation.pdf

Oh yeah and welcome to the TiVo Family!

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Old 03-22-2013, 09:04 AM   #10
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Many thanks to all for taking the time out to help and for the welcome.

It is sincerely appreciated.
Enjoy your Friday hoops!

Regards,
Skid
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:12 AM   #11
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Is your current setup working OK?
With the exception of a dying hard drive in the Moxi, the setup is working quite nicely. I moved the modem and wireless router from the basement to upstairs. This move has given us better overall wireless performance. And with MoCA adapters over the house we have the ability to extend wireless coverage or install switches for wired hookups.

When inquiring about the POE filter, I was just a little concerned that our network may be vulnerable.

Thanks again,
Skid
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:53 AM   #12
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With the exception of a dying hard drive in the Moxi, the setup is working quite nicely. I moved the modem and wireless router from the basement to upstairs. This move has given us better overall wireless performance. And with MoCA adapters over the house we have the ability to extend wireless coverage or install switches for wired hookups.
If all of the boxes can get to the Internet and see each other, I don't see any need for the TiVo to act as a bridge. You don't have a wired Ethernet that you need to bridge to the MOCA. You could split the cable before it goes to the modem and connect the Mini there via Coax. The only thing you might want to add is connect the Ethernet out of that adapter to one of the switch ports of the router.

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Originally Posted by skid71 View Post
When inquiring about the POE filter, I was just a little concerned that our network may be vulnerable.
There is that, plus I think that the POE filter improves the MOCA signal since it reflects it back. I'm pretty sure it goes at the initial POE of the cable, before any distribution splitters to the various outlets.

Finally, I hope that someone who knows MOCA better than I do (wouldn't be hard ) will cut in here if I have made some egregious error . I have never actually used MOCA and am basing my advice on what I have found on the net (no, not just the TCF).
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Old 03-22-2013, 10:33 AM   #13
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snip...
Quote:
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There is that, plus I think that the POE filter improves the MOCA signal since it reflects it back. I'm pretty sure it goes at the initial POE of the cable, before any distribution splitters to the various outlets.

Finally, I hope that someone who knows MOCA better than I do (wouldn't be hard ) will cut in here if I have made some egregious error . I have never actually used MOCA and am basing my advice on what I have found on the net (no, not just the TCF).
This intrigues me as there are times when it seems our network grinds to the flow of cold molasses. I think I remember seeing the POE filter on TiVo's website. I think a purchase may be in order and try it out.

The coax outlet that the cable originally came into the house was downstairs and easy to get to. I don't even think there is a splitter in the loop. I'm thinking the coax goes straight into the MoCA adapter downstairs, so I'll just install the filter before it connects to the MoCA adapter.

Thanks again, and enjoy your weekend!

Skid
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:09 AM   #14
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The coax outlet that the cable originally came into the house was downstairs and easy to get to. I don't even think there is a splitter in the loop. I'm thinking the coax goes straight into the MoCA adapter downstairs, so I'll just install the filter before it connects to the MoCA adapter.
There has to be a splitter somewhere. How else would the other outlets be fed?
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Old 03-22-2013, 01:18 PM   #15
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There has to be a splitter somewhere. How else would the other outlets be fed?
I suppose it would have to be in the box outside of the house. I really feel stupid right now. Would it be obvious where to place the POE filter in the box?

New house...Comcast installed a box on the south side of the house. That has to be where it's split. Wish I could have watched over the build to see how it is wired. The house had coax outlets in each room.

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Old 03-22-2013, 01:38 PM   #16
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Originally Posted by skid71 View Post
I suppose it would have to be in the box outside of the house. I really feel stupid right now. Would it be obvious where to place the POE filter in the box?

New house...Comcast installed a box on the south side of the house. That has to be where it's split. Wish I could have watched over the build to see how it is wired. The house had coax outlets in each room.

Skid
Here's a diagram of how a house can be wired for coax:



Note, that if you have more than 1 outlet, the incoming coax line MUST be split. For you, since you have an outlet in each room, it's a matter of finding out where the splitter(s) are (the connection center in the diagram).
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:21 PM   #17
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Here's a diagram of how a house can be wired for coax:



Note, that if you have more than 1 outlet, the incoming coax line MUST be split. For you, since you have an outlet in each room, it's a matter of finding out where the splitter(s) are (the connection center in the diagram).
Oh yeah, certainly more than 1 outlet in the house. Damn, I have no idea where the split could be other than the junction box outside of the garage.
I'm seriously going nuts at this point. I've been at the house anytime a Comcast "tech" has come out, and I know they haven't ever opened up a wall to get at the wiring. I'm confounded.

Great diagram BTW.

Thank you for the continuing help

Skid
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:41 PM   #18
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Oh yeah, certainly more than 1 outlet in the house. Damn, I have no idea where the split could be other than the junction box outside of the garage.
I'm seriously going nuts at this point. I've been at the house anytime a Comcast "tech" has come out, and I know they haven't ever opened up a wall to get at the wiring. I'm confounded.

Great diagram BTW.

Thank you for the continuing help

Skid
The outside Comcast box is likely just a single cable coming to your home and a single line going into the garage. The split happens somewhere inside. What's on the inside of the garage? I would try to follow the outside Comcast box "through" the wall into the garage and try to find where the line heads next. Do you have a basement?

Regardless, if you could get access to the Comcast box, that should be a fine place for the POE Filter. The concerns would be "can you get inside the box?" and that Comcast probably doesn't want you messing around in their box.
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Old 03-22-2013, 02:44 PM   #19
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Back when I had a house, the split was right where the cable from the pole go to the house. Most of the wiring to the various outlets ran on the outside wall of the house.

If I were you, I would call Comcast. Since you have internet with them, they might be willing to install the POE filter for you at no charge. Who knows, there might already be one in place.
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Old 03-22-2013, 04:46 PM   #20
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FWIW at my house the cable is split outside several times right before it enters the house. Then inside in the basement it is split again a couple of times. Fortunately the splitters inside the house were in the ceiling of the unfinished basement.

Also, the cable was not installed by the cable company, but by whoever the home builder contracted with. If this is newer construction you might be able to talk to the build and ask them who did it or your neighbors.

(Or did you say it was Comcast who did the install?)

_____

Read above again. So in the scenario I presented, our cable company came out and hooked up to the already existing wire that the builder installed.
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Old 03-22-2013, 09:45 PM   #21
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I hate to sound like a broken record, but I really appreciate everyone's time and help with this.

I know a single cable runs underground to this "junction" box on the south side of the house. I'll go out tomorrow and see if I can access the interior of the box and see what's going on inside. I don't have a basement, and I don't believe there are any cables on the outside of the house.

Our home was built in 2009. Spring 2010 we moved in. None of the coax outlets at that time "worked" or were "hot". Sorry for the lack of correct terminology. Comcast is our provider. (heard bad things about UVerse picture quality) At that time the installer came out and terminated (is that correct?) a coax outlet downstairs. He also terminated(?) the coax outlet above the fireplace. Some months later the master bedroom coax outlet was terminated, along with one of our guest bedrooms upstairs.

At one time we were using a SiliconDust HD HomeRun and I was ignorant enough to have a 4-way split downstairs. At that time an amp was installed by Comcast in the garage (think of where the junction box is on the outside of the house and the amp was installed on the other side of the wall in the garage).

None of these time when Comcast came out did anyone install any cable inside the walls or anything. They only took the plate off the coax outlets and did something and put the plate back on. Only took a couple of minutes tops.

A number of months ago, we decommissioned the desktop downstairs, removed the 4-way splitter and moved the modem, wireless router, and a MoCA adapter to the location above the fireplace.

Please excuse my simple descriptions and terminology.

With all this being said, the network is reliable, I would really llke to get the POE filter installed properly to secure the network and hopefully gain some efficiency.

So tomorrow I'll take a look at the junction box outside and see if I can take some pics and post them.

Thanks again
Enjoy your hoops and have a great weekend.

Skid
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Old 03-22-2013, 11:55 PM   #22
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Skid you have no idea how much I wish I was local to so I could help set everything up for you. You might also want to take a look at this thread for more Comcast support. http://www.dslreports.com/forum/tvcomcast

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Old 03-23-2013, 03:18 PM   #23
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I was able to open up the Comcast box on the outside of the house.
The orange coax connects to (possibly a POE filter?), then the white coax from that device goes into the splitter. Is there a way to check and see if that connector is a filter?
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Old 03-23-2013, 03:43 PM   #24
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I was able to open up the Comcast box on the outside of the house.
The orange coax connects to (possibly a POE filter?), then the white coax from that device goes into the splitter. Is there a way to check and see if that connector is a filter?
that's just a ground connector - notice the the green ground wire.

how many splits does the splitter provide?

And where does the black one go? Take a closeup of the orange/red label.
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Old 03-23-2013, 04:53 PM   #25
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that's just a ground connector - notice the the green ground wire.

how many splits does the splitter provide?

And where does the black one go? Take a closeup of the orange/red label.
Ok, will do. It'll have to wait until our snowstorm is finished. Grrr.... This time last year I already mowed the lawn 4 or 5 times.

That's how much of a n00b I am. Didn't know green was for ground. Oh well, gotta keep learning.

Thanks for the reply.
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:05 PM   #26
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More shots

Got in a few more shots in the snow.
I'm thinking that the black coax cable runs to the amp on the opposite side of the wall (garage)?

Looks like it's split 6 ways?

Sorry for the pictures, I don't have a "real" camera.
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File Type: jpg splitter wide.jpg (112.8 KB, 18 views)
File Type: jpg wider splitter.jpg (106.5 KB, 19 views)
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:31 PM   #27
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Got in a few more shots in the snow.
I'm thinking that the black coax cable runs to the amp on the opposite side of the wall (garage)?

Looks like it's split 6 ways?

Sorry for the pictures, I don't have a "real" camera.
the black coax is just a power supply - it connects to a wall wart in an outlet.

Does six match the number of coax outlets you have in use? If so, then you have found the "connection center" and any filter would go in between the white coax and the splitter (amplifier). However, since it's the cable company's box, I'd definitively talk to them first before installing anything.
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Old 03-23-2013, 06:42 PM   #28
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the black coax is just a power supply - it connects to a wall wart in an outlet.

Does six match the number of coax outlets you have in use? If so, then you have found the "connection center" and any filter would go in between the white coax and the splitter (amplifier). However, since it's the cable company's box, I'd definitively talk to them first before installing anything.
I'll get in touch with Comcast and see if they can install the filter.
Sure appreciate your help. Yes, six splits make sense. Four bedrooms, livingroom upstairs, and theater room downstairs.

When the techs come out and remove the coax outlet plate, what exactly are they doing to make that outlet useable?

I'm very excited about entering the TiVo world, I hope that new hardware is coming later this year and that our Moxi setup can last that long.

Regards,
Skid
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Old 03-23-2013, 07:27 PM   #29
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I went to the CommScope website and what is in the box appears to be a Passive VoIP Amplifier, 15 dB, eight ports.
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Old 03-28-2013, 07:50 PM   #30
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Good evening all,
Installed the POE filter without issue. If Comcast doesn't like it, I'll just play stupid. Wouldn't be a stretch if you asked my wife.

Wish I could find a good way to test the network now that the filter is installed.

Thanks very much for all that took the time to post and help.

Regards,
Skid

Last edited by skid71 : 03-28-2013 at 08:29 PM.
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