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Old 05-13-2012, 02:43 PM   #1
HiKent
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Elite as moca gateway

Hi,

Can the moca gateways in elites used to extend a wired ethernet network?

My proposed topology is as follows: internet gateway colocated by a tivo elite, this elite connected by wired connection. A second tivo elite connected to network via moca bridge in first elite. Finally, a wifi router dropped off the wired port of the second elite.

I know linux boxes can be set up gateways, etc. I don't know if one could/would want to do this with elites.

FWIW, I currently use a pair of netgear moca boxes to extend wired network to wifi router located where second elite would be. (These are my only moca devices). TWC always complains moca boxes are source of all my troubles (even when disconnected). Would be nice to loose a couple of boxes, dividers, and complaints from the peanut gallery if elites can be so configured.

Any thoughts?
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Old 05-13-2012, 03:56 PM   #2
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Hi,

Can the moca gateways in elites used to extend a wired ethernet network?

My proposed topology is as follows: internet gateway colocated by a tivo elite, this elite connected by wired connection. A second tivo elite connected to network via moca bridge in first elite. Finally, a wifi router dropped off the wired port of the second elite.

I know linux boxes can be set up gateways, etc. I don't know if one could/would want to do this with elites.

FWIW, I currently use a pair of netgear moca boxes to extend wired network to wifi router located where second elite would be. (These are my only moca devices). TWC always complains moca boxes are source of all my troubles (even when disconnected). Would be nice to loose a couple of boxes, dividers, and complaints from the peanut gallery if elites can be so configured.

Any thoughts?
I read somewhere that if using MOCA, the ethernet port on the elite will extend your network
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Old 05-13-2012, 07:04 PM   #3
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I read somewhere that if using MOCA, the ethernet port on the elite will extend your network
This is exactly the info I was looking for. I tried to find it on the TiVo support site w/o luck. Any pointers to additional info?
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Old 05-13-2012, 08:09 PM   #4
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Google reviews of the Elite... i am pretty sure i saw it in there
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Old 05-14-2012, 08:26 AM   #5
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I know for a fact that half that will work and assume both sides will be fine.

I have happen to have a verizon router that has ethernet+wireless+moca.

So to play i set up the the router moca to go to my elite. Then i have the elite's ethernet connected to my bluray player. The blueray player pulls an IP address and all from the router via DHCP and works just fine.

You have to turn on the moca on the elite and then from then the network connection says something about "moca+ethernet" and I think either side will work with the other side switched through the tivo.

So Certainly it works in the configuration I'm using with the "in" through moca and "out" through ethernet- I'm guessing you can connect the inverse with "in" through the ethernet and the "out" through moca.
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Old 05-14-2012, 02:47 PM   #6
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Yes it will work as the gateway.

You can have MoCA >> Coax Cable >> TiVo Elite >> Ethernet cable to anything else that needs network.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:26 AM   #7
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MichaelK hinted at it, but has anybody confirmed the reverse case works?

I activated MoCA on my elite (connected to the network via ethernet only), and everything still worked fine. It seems activating MoCA simply bridges the two interfaces (ethernet+MoCA) and then network settings get applied to the bridge as a whole. In this case, you should be able to use one elite as an Ethernet -> MoCA bridge and another as a MoCA -> Ethernet bridge. Pretty interesting.

-- side note, My guess is they set it up like this for the future addition of the retail TiVo Preview. Just turn on MoCA on your Elite and you have instant network access throughout the house on the streaming STBs. Nice.
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:02 AM   #8
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MichaelK hinted at it, but has anybody confirmed the reverse case works?

I activated MoCA on my elite (connected to the network via ethernet only), and everything still worked fine. It seems activating MoCA simply bridges the two interfaces (ethernet+MoCA) and then network settings get applied to the bridge as a whole. In this case, you should be able to use one elite as an Ethernet -> MoCA bridge and another as a MoCA -> Ethernet bridge. Pretty interesting.

-- side note, My guess is they set it up like this for the future addition of the retail TiVo Preview. Just turn on MoCA on your Elite and you have instant network access throughout the house on the streaming STBs. Nice.
If that is the case they need to come out with a MOCA adaptor for the regular premieres.... no reason they could not. Direct TV did and they are very cheap
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:16 AM   #9
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If that is the case they need to come out with a MOCA adaptor for the regular premieres.... no reason they could not. Direct TV did and they are very cheap
But aren't the DirecTV ones subsidized?
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:19 AM   #10
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But aren't the DirecTV ones subsidized?
i dont believe so... you can buy them from online retailers..
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:08 AM   #11
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If that is the case they need to come out with a MOCA adaptor for the regular premieres.... no reason they could not. Direct TV did and they are very cheap
TiVo is currently selling the brand new Actiontec ECB2500 MoCA adapter. They also sell a Point of Entry filter which is recommended for most installations.

https://www3.tivo.com/store/accessor...ng.do#ECB2500C
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Old 05-15-2012, 09:56 AM   #12
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If that is the case they need to come out with a MOCA adaptor for the regular premieres.... no reason they could not. Direct TV did and they are very cheap
The direct tv adapters are deca rather than moca and are not compatible with moca.

If you're looking for a cheap moca adapter, you can buy a used verizon fios router on ebay and put it into bridge mode to use it as a moca bridge. The model is actiontec MI424WR and detailed instructions are available at dsl reports --start here: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/15984
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Old 05-15-2012, 11:30 AM   #13
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The direct tv adapters are deca rather than moca and are not compatible with moca.

If you're looking for a cheap moca adapter, you can buy a used verizon fios router on ebay and put it into bridge mode to use it as a moca bridge. The model is actiontec MI424WR and detailed instructions are available at dsl reports --start here: http://www.dslreports.com/faq/15984
I understand Direct TV uses DECA(just a lower freq) that but there is no reason Tivo cant come out with Moca Adaptors of there own


Turning old routers into bridges is not a viable networking Option for Tivo to sell to customers
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Old 05-15-2012, 06:43 PM   #14
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The moca adapter works well in this setup. Mine is a Moca adapter purchased through Amazon connected to modem to support internet connection, using two tivo XL4's through the built in moca bridge and transfer rates between boxes is approx 77Mbps.
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:15 PM   #15
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I understand Direct TV uses DECA(just a lower freq) that but there is no reason Tivo cant come out with Moca Adaptors of there own
I'm glad that you understand this, but some people on this forum might not know this and think they can just buy the cheap directv units on ebay.

Even though I don't have FIOS, all 3 of my Tivos have a verizon fios router configured as a MOCA bridge connected to them with a fourth MOCA bridge connected to my router. There are plenty of people on this forum capable of setting this up on their own. I don't expect Tivo or anyone to sell me a networking solution below cost and nobidy sells MOCA bridges or adapters for a price I consider cheap (other than the used verizon fios routers on ebay)
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Old 05-15-2012, 07:35 PM   #16
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SO what are the fastest speeds you get using the Actiontec MoCA adapters with the Elites, err XL4s? Is it equal to the gigabit connection or is it slower or faster. Since I have three of the FiOS Actiontec routers gathering dust in my closet, I would consider setting one up if speeds are quicker than the gigabit connection.

My current MoCA setup is just between two points with no cable signals on the cable. But I'm only using it for a few slow speed devices.
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Old 05-15-2012, 08:36 PM   #17
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The Fios Routers Turned into Moca bridges are capped at 100Mbps.. Since the ports on the router are said speed
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Old 05-15-2012, 10:03 PM   #18
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SO what are the fastest speeds you get using the Actiontec MoCA adapters with the Elites, err XL4s? Is it equal to the gigabit connection or is it slower or faster. Since I have three of the FiOS Actiontec routers gathering dust in my closet, I would consider setting one up if speeds are quicker than the gigabit connection.

My current MoCA setup is just between two points with no cable signals on the cable. But I'm only using it for a few slow speed devices.
MoCA 1.0 itself is theoretically limited to around 100Mbps. MoCA 1.1 is 175Mbps, but only the Rev. F and later FiOS routers support it. I think the TiVo also supports it.

All that being said, gigabit ethernet will always be faster than MoCA.


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The Fios Routers Turned into Moca bridges are capped at 100Mbps.. Since the ports on the router are said speed
Rev G and I routers have gigabit ethernet and MoCA 1.1 support, so they can theoretically hit 175Mbps over MoCA. But I'm not sure what the real-world speeds are.
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Old 05-16-2012, 06:41 AM   #19
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MoCA 1.0 itself is theoretically limited to around 100Mbps. MoCA 1.1 is 175Mbps, but only the Rev. F and later FiOS routers support it. I think the TiVo also supports it.

All that being said, gigabit ethernet will always be faster than MoCA.




Rev G and I routers have gigabit ethernet and MoCA 1.1 support, so they can theoretically hit 175Mbps over MoCA. But I'm not sure what the real-world speeds are.
Yeh but you arent finding those for 25 bucks on ebay.. yet
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:25 AM   #20
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MoCA 1.0 itself is theoretically limited to around 100Mbps. MoCA 1.1 is 175Mbps, but only the Rev. F and later FiOS routers support it. I think the TiVo also supports it.

All that being said, gigabit ethernet will always be faster than MoCA.




Rev G and I routers have gigabit ethernet and MoCA 1.1 support, so they can theoretically hit 175Mbps over MoCA. But I'm not sure what the real-world speeds are.
I realize gigabit has a faster speed than MoCA. But the ELite doesn't typically take advantage of the gigabit speeds. I've seen mine peak above 100mb/s but only when you have numerous streams to/from the Elite. WIth one or two streams the speeds have been well below 100mb/s. Although I haven't checked out the speeds since the new software update last week.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:36 AM   #21
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I realize gigabit has a faster speed than MoCA. But the ELite doesn't typically take advantage of the gigabit speeds. I've seen mine peak above 100mb/s but only when you have numerous streams to/from the Elite. WIth one or two streams the speeds have been well below 100mb/s. Although I haven't checked out the speeds since the new software update last week.
Is that hybrid Moca to Ethernet? Would be interesting for someone to test a pure MOCA connection with the elite....
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:37 AM   #22
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I don't expect Tivo or anyone to sell me a networking solution below cost and nobidy sells MOCA bridges or adapters for a price I consider cheap (other than the used verizon fios routers on ebay)
check amazon. I got a pair of brand new netgear moca adapters for $79. http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00...ls_o01_s00_i00
(now looks like $250 or so but somehowi got 79....)
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Old 05-16-2012, 08:40 AM   #23
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SO what are the fastest speeds you get using the Actiontec MoCA adapters with the Elites, err XL4s? Is it equal to the gigabit connection or is it slower or faster. Since I have three of the FiOS Actiontec routers gathering dust in my closet, I would consider setting one up if speeds are quicker than the gigabit connection.

My current MoCA setup is just between two points with no cable signals on the cable. But I'm only using it for a few slow speed devices.
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The Fios Routers Turned into Moca bridges are capped at 100Mbps.. Since the ports on the router are said speed
I have a later model actiontec (I dont think it's a g- maybe e or f)- and on the diagnostic screens it seems to indicated that I'm getting 200+ up and down stream to the elite. (not at home but off the top of my head it was like 213 one way and 230 the other)

I was under the impression that the ethernet is not the weak link in tivo I/O and you can't even get 100 out of a tivo no matter the speed of the connection?
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Old 05-16-2012, 09:40 AM   #24
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This is clearly documented on Tivo's website BTW:

http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/.../moca%20elite/

Just follow the "bridge" instructions.
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Old 05-16-2012, 07:53 PM   #25
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I have a later model actiontec (I dont think it's a g- maybe e or f)- and on the diagnostic screens it seems to indicated that I'm getting 200+ up and down stream to the elite. (not at home but off the top of my head it was like 213 one way and 230 the other)
That's the PHY rate. The theoretical max for that is 270Mbps. The MAC rate is the limiting factor (~100Mbps in MoCA 1.0 and 175Mbps in MoCA 1.1).
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Old 05-18-2012, 03:47 PM   #26
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That's the PHY rate. The theoretical max for that is 270Mbps. The MAC rate is the limiting factor (~100Mbps in MoCA 1.0 and 175Mbps in MoCA 1.1).

since i clearly dont know- LOL. what is the difference?

Is PHY the actual connection but the MAC limits it to keep from saturating the line?
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Old 05-21-2012, 06:44 AM   #27
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Yes it will work as the gateway.

You can have MoCA >> Coax Cable >> TiVo Elite >> Ethernet cable to anything else that needs network.
For what it's worth, I tried this with the TiVo Preview box, and unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be capable of extending the network through the Ethernet port. I tried connecting my Apple TV to the Preview this way, and while it shows up as a TCP/IP connection, it refuses to pull an IP address.
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Old 05-21-2012, 09:32 AM   #28
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For what it's worth, I tried this with the TiVo Preview box, and unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be capable of extending the network through the Ethernet port. I tried connecting my Apple TV to the Preview this way, and while it shows up as a TCP/IP connection, it refuses to pull an IP address.
The regular 2-tuner Premiere doesn't have the built-in MoCA adapter.

Oops! I misread as "Premiere". I know nothing about the Preview. Sorry.

Last edited by L David Matheny : 05-21-2012 at 10:45 AM. Reason: oops
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:18 AM   #29
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For what it's worth, I tried this with the TiVo Preview box, and unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be capable of extending the network through the Ethernet port. I tried connecting my Apple TV to the Preview this way, and while it shows up as a TCP/IP connection, it refuses to pull an IP address.

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The regular 2-tuner Premiere doesn't have the built-in MoCA adapter.
The Preview box is supplied by cable operators. It has no hard drive and only one tuner.
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Old 05-21-2012, 10:32 AM   #30
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For what it's worth, I tried this with the TiVo Preview box, and unfortunately, it doesn't appear to be capable of extending the network through the Ethernet port. I tried connecting my Apple TV to the Preview this way, and while it shows up as a TCP/IP connection, it refuses to pull an IP address.
I would not have expected this to work on the Preview since we have no documentation to state so. We do however have documentation stating it will work on the Elite
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