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Old 08-31-2013, 12:54 PM   #1
aaronwt
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Guide speed on Mini from Roamio

I've noticed that on my two Minis that the guide data is slow to populate compared to when my Minis are connected to my Elites. On my Elites I can go down to the next line and the info on the right is populated in a split second. When the Mini is linked to my Roamio, the info on the right column takes one to two seconds to populate. Could this just be because I recently set up the Roamio PRo and it will speed up in a few days?

It does seem to have guide data out to 9/12. But it is very slow going out that far since it takes 1 to 2 seconds to populate with each change. While when the Mini is connected to the Elite I can change it superfast since the change is almost instant. What speeds are other people seeing with the Mini linked to the Roamio?
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Old 08-31-2013, 01:19 PM   #2
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I have no idea what the issue was I rebooted the Minis and the Roamio and now the guide in the Mini has the speeds it did with the Elite.

It could have been from me changing out the gigabit switch the Roamio was connected to. I initially had it on one of the newer Dlink Green switches. Then I connected it to a very old Netgear Gigabit switch. But then I found an old Dlink gigabit switch that didn't have "Green' on it so I switched it out again.
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Old 09-02-2013, 09:11 AM   #3
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The guide data doesn't have anything to do with whether a Roamio or Premiere is on the network. The guide data is loaded from the network.

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Old 09-02-2013, 10:45 AM   #4
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The guide data doesn't have anything to do with whether a Roamio or Premiere is on the network. The guide data is loaded from the network.

Joe
No, the Mini talks to the host unit to get guide data. Case in point: if you disconnect host unit from network but leave Mini connected to network it's not able to bring up the guide.
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Old 09-02-2013, 01:24 PM   #5
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Yes. If it wasn't dependent on the host unit when I was having issues I would have seen the same speeds whether the Minis were connected to the Elites or the Romaio. But there was a night and day difference in the speeds. I've had no issues since I rebooted so me changing out the gigabit switches a couple of times must have caused some network issue.
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Old 09-02-2013, 02:47 PM   #6
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Speed is fine on mine but the discussion begs the question...

If the mini relies on the guide data from the host, why the hell do we have to pay TiVo service on the mini????
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Old 09-02-2013, 02:51 PM   #7
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Speed is fine on mine but the discussion begs the question...

If the mini relies on the guide data from the host, why the hell do we have to pay TiVo service on the mini????
Because, without a Mini, the only alternative would be another Roamio and the associated monthly/lifetime fee plus higher purchase price. No offense, but that's kind of obvious.
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Old 09-02-2013, 02:51 PM   #8
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Speed is fine on mine but the discussion begs the question...

If the mini relies on the guide data from the host, why the hell do we have to pay TiVo service on the mini????
+1


But I think the answer is because they can. I do think a model where you paid $16-20 per month for up to 3 connected minis and a host DVR might increase the popularity of these units. You could then charge $2-5 per additional mini per month.
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Old 09-02-2013, 03:29 PM   #9
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Because, without a Mini, the only alternative would be another Roamio and the associated monthly/lifetime fee plus higher purchase price. No offense, but that's kind of obvious.
But a second roamio gives you more space. No offense, but that's kind of obvious.

My point is that TiVo claims that the subscriptio cost is to cover the guide info. But if we're already paying for that with the main TiVo (and that is where the TiVo gets the data), why is there a subscription cost for the mini?

Yes, the mini cost frees up an additional outlet And I'll save money in the long run on my cable bill. But knowing the mini gets guide data from the main TiVo does not match with the message TiVo conveys regarding what the subscription cost covers.
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:22 PM   #10
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But a second roamio gives you more space. No offense, but that's kind of obvious.

My point is that TiVo claims that the subscriptio cost is to cover the guide info. But if we're already paying for that with the main TiVo (and that is where the TiVo gets the data), why is there a subscription cost for the mini?

Yes, the mini cost frees up an additional outlet And I'll save money in the long run on my cable bill. But knowing the mini gets guide data from the main TiVo does not match with the message TiVo conveys regarding what the subscription cost covers.
Why would TiVo sell a Mini, at a one time charge, that in many situations would replace a Roamio that has both a one time charge plus a monthly service charge (or lifetime), and give up the revenue stream? Dumb idea.
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:31 PM   #11
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Why would TiVo sell a Mini, at a one time charge, that in many situations would replace a Roamio that has both a one time charge plus a monthly service charge (or lifetime), and give up the revenue stream? Dumb idea.
You're missing the point. I understand that TiVo charges because they can. They make money doing so. As a company they will continue to do so. But that doesn't make it a legitimate charge.

Hell, comcast charges me $10 a month for an HD technology fee when I don't use one of their boxes. Because they can. But that doesn't make it a legit charge.

Sprint charges $10 a month for a "smartphone fee" on top of their data plan even though they are supposed to have unlimited data. Because they can. But that does make it a legitimate charge.

My point is simply the charge does not match what they claim the subscription cost covers. If the tivo mini got guide data from connecting to TiVo, then yes, charge away. But it gets it from a TiVo you are already paying a subscription on.
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:47 PM   #12
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No, I am not missing the point.

Sellers charge what buyers are willing to pay for their product or service. It's called free enterprise. Don't like the price, don't buy it. Don't think the price represents good value, don't buy it. Arguing with a seller about their price, or worse, asking them to justify it, is pointless.

Internet discussion forums are filled with people who only complain about what sellers charge, the electronic equivalent of stamping their feet and throwing a tantrum in the cereal aisle when their parent refuses to buy the Cocoa Puffs for them. However, they don't vote with their money, an action that might actually accomplish something.
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Old 09-02-2013, 04:52 PM   #13
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There may be a charge from Tribune for reusing that data on a second device, even if it is pulled from the main TiVo.

But in any case the cost of data is not really the reason TiVo charges a service fee. MS provides the same data for "free" with Windows (or they did prior to Win8) so obviously the data is not that expensive. The main reason they charge for service on the Mini is because they knew that in most cases people would be replacing a TiVo in a secondary location with a Mini. They need to have those subscribers on the books to attract investors. If their subscriber numbers suddenly dropped by 1/2 because customers were swapping TiVos for Minis their stock would tank and they would go out of business. By charging a service fee for the Mini and not distinguishing them in their numbers they can keep their subscriber numbers inflated and not scare off investors.
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:01 PM   #14
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No, I am not missing the point.

Sellers charge what buyers are willing to pay for their product or service. It's called free enterprise. Don't like the price, don't buy it. Don't think the price represents good value, don't buy it. Arguing with a seller about their price, or worse, asking them to justify it, is pointless.

Internet discussion forums are filled with people who only complain about what sellers charge, the electronic equivalent of stamping their feet and throwing a tantrum in the cereal aisle when their parent refuses to buy the Cocoa Puffs for them. However, they don't vote with their money, an action that might actually accomplish something.
Whoosh.

Am I arguing with tivo or throwing a tantrum? I simply stated that the method in which the mini receives its guide data does not match with the charges.

I bought a mini and enjoy its features. I personally think it is worth the onetime fee I paid for the unit and lifetime, especially considering it allows me to drop a cable outlet. TiVo themselves justify the subscription by stating (many times over the years - not to me but to everyone) that TiVo subscription covers the guide data.

I'm a big TiVo fan - been using them since the series 2. So i'm familiar with the subscription cost and what TiVo claims it covers. i'm obviously OK with it. But the news that the mini piggybacks on an existing subscription does not match with what has been communicated in the past.

But whatever. It's the internet. Where 2 strangers will try to convince the other that they are wrong, while crickets chirp in the background.
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:03 PM   #15
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There may be a charge from Tribune for reusing that data on a second device, even if it is pulled from the main TiVo.

But in any case the cost of data is not really the reason TiVo charges a service fee. MS provides the same data for "free" with Windows (or they did prior to Win8) so obviously the data is not that expensive. The main reason they charge for service on the Mini is because they knew that in most cases people would be replacing a TiVo in a secondary location with a Mini. They need to have those subscribers on the books to attract investors. If their subscriber numbers suddenly dropped by 1/2 because customers were swapping TiVos for Minis their stock would tank and they would go out of business. By charging a service fee for the Mini and not distinguishing them in their numbers they can keep their subscriber numbers inflated and not scare off investors.
Yes, I get the TiVo motivation behind it. Always have - no issue with TiVo trying to make money. I want the company to stick around.

Interesting about the guide data being used on a second device. Now THAT is a legitimate charge - if true.
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:13 PM   #16
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I think someone looked into it once and there is a charge for mirroring data to another device. However, as I said above, the data charge is small in comparison to the actual service fee they charge us. These days the service fee on a TiVo is mainly used as a way to subsidize the hardware to make the cost of entry lower, and for a Mini it's a way of maintaining their subscriber numbers so it looks better to investors.

I mean think of it this way. I think TiVo gets like $1-2 per subscriber from RCN, even though they use the same box and get the same "service" from TiVo. Obviously if the data was expensive they would need to charge them more or they would lose money.
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:17 PM   #17
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I think someone looked into it once and there is a charge for mirroring data to another device. However, as I said above, the data charge is small in comparison to the actual service fee they charge us. These days the service fee on a TiVo is mainly used as a way to subsidize the hardware to make the cost of entry lower, and for a Mini it's a way of maintaining their subscriber numbers so it looks better to investors.

I mean think of it this way. I think TiVo gets like $1-2 per subscriber from RCN, even though they use the same box and get the same "service" from TiVo. Obviously if the data was expensive they would need to charge them more or they would lose money.
Right - I'm sure the mirror cost is not the full $5 a month. And i'm sure the main guide data is far less than the $14.99 a month they charge now for a primary TiVo box.

TiVo doesn't say "hey we're charging a subscription fee to subsidize the hardware", so they have linked the subscription to the guide data in the past. Even though it is not the full cost, there has been a legitimate reason behind the monthly charge in the past.
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:24 PM   #18
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TiVo has always said that the subscription fee was tied to the guide data, software updates and support. You're still getting at least 2 of those with a Mini.
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:30 PM   #19
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TiVo has always said that the subscription fee was tied to the guide data, software updates and support. You're still getting at least 2 of those with a Mini.
Fair and valid point on updates and support. I've never seen it called out specifically for those 2, always seen the guide data mentioned as the reason for subscription service. But I agree completely that those are legit services.

Thanks for conducting a fair and balanced discussion on the topic, and not resorting to over-the-top analogies and accusations.
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:33 PM   #20
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TiVo has always said that the subscription fee was tied to the guide data, software updates and support. You're still getting at least 2 of those with a Mini.
Don't you get those things from Roku with no extra charge (excluding guide data)?
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Old 09-02-2013, 05:48 PM   #21
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Don't you get those things from Roku with no extra charge (excluding guide data)?
Perhaps, but Roku obviously has a different business model then TiVo. As similar as the hardware is between a Roku and a Mini they are intended for very different purposes. Roku makes most of it's money from subscription sharing deals with the services it offers apps for.

That being said at the cable show in June TiVo showed a demo of a TiVo UI, complete with video streaming, running on a Roku so maybe some day you'll be able to actually choose between a Roku and a Mini for a second room. Although the Roku would likely require the Stream hardware, for H.264 transcoding, so the experience would probably be more like the iPad app then the Mini. But maybe that's enough for you?

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Old 09-02-2013, 06:52 PM   #22
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Don't you get those things from Roku with no extra charge (excluding guide data)?
To state the obvious...Then buy a Roku.
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Old 09-02-2013, 06:56 PM   #23
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To state the obvious...Then buy a Roku.
I was asking a question because I don't know much about the Roku.
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:03 PM   #24
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I was asking a question because I don't know much about the Roku.
The Roku compares more to an Apple TV than a Tivo or a Tivo Mini.
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Old 09-02-2013, 07:25 PM   #25
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I was asking a question because I don't know much about the Roku.
Doesn't matter what your intent was. TC25D will decide your intent for you and give you the "obvious" answer.
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Old 09-03-2013, 05:03 AM   #26
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Doesn't matter what your intent was. TC25D will decide your intent for you and give you the "obvious" answer.
Tsk, tsk, getting challenged on your thread complaining about the cost of a Mini results in insults. How mature.
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