TiVo Community
TiVo Community
TiVo Community
Go Back   TiVo Community > Main TiVo Forums > TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion
TiVo Community
Closed Thread
Forum Jump
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-04-2014, 09:40 AM   #181
mr.unnatural
Registered User
 
mr.unnatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,548
Absolutely. I went through two different Echoes during the beta testing phase and couldn't get either of them to work reliably well on my network. I was hoping that somehow the Android update would make things better until I found out about the issues getting units updated in the field. It wasn't that they couldn't put Android on the Echo and have it work but rather that it had to be flashed at the factory instead of being able to deploy a firmware/software update so customers could update them at home. You would have thought that they'd test the updating process more extensively before announcing the Echo would have it.

At the very least they could have offered an upgrade program whereby you could send your Echo back to Ceton and trade it in for an Android version or have them upgrade yours, assuming that's even possible. I'm surprised they didn't at least offer the Android version as another option. Drop the price of the original Echo and offer the Android Echo at the original price.

I had been looking forward to the Echo working with better codec support than the existing extenders. I was severely disappointed when the Echo turned out to be just another extender with only a few minor improvements over other units. They also need to drop the price below $100 to make it attractive. OTOH, lots of beta testers raved about it so whatever results you get with it seem to be a mixed bag, sort of like WMC. You either got them to work reliably or ended up being frustrated and tearing your hair out.
mr.unnatural is offline  
Old 02-04-2014, 08:22 PM   #182
rcanoza
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: N. Calif.
Posts: 23
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post
Yeah, happens a bit more often to me. Though I would really appreciate if it warned me it might happen... or if I could determine when it would do it.

Could just be a side effect of the fact my guide data is horribly wrong and shows are marked repeat when they're new runs.
While living in Los Angeles a few years ago I found the Tivo's listings for several basic-cable channels were 2 hours fast, probably due to the local cable monopoly being headquartered in St. Louis (this nuisance I could get used to; not until they forced an SDV tuning adapter on us did I cancel in rage).

Lately my news repeats under the same title are somehow not marked as re-runs -- in either WMC or Tivo -- resulting in copies of the Saturday 5am edition, for example. Guide garbage in, guide garbage out. My slow-going project is to schedule everything via scripted manual line-items synced to an online .CSV online, which I manipulate at one-degree remove in Zap2it or something. Probably will be finished around the time of entertainment broadcasting's demise.
rcanoza is offline  
Old 02-04-2014, 09:41 PM   #183
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,422
It's unfortunate that the PC DVR never panned out. In theory, it is far superior to a closed system like TiVo, but no one ever got theory to work in reality.
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline  
Old 02-05-2014, 12:42 AM   #184
Worf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,643
Quote:
Originally Posted by rcanoza View Post
While living in Los Angeles a few years ago I found the Tivo's listings for several basic-cable channels were 2 hours fast, probably due to the local cable monopoly being headquartered in St. Louis (this nuisance I could get used to; not until they forced an SDV tuning adapter on us did I cancel in rage).

Lately my news repeats under the same title are somehow not marked as re-runs -- in either WMC or Tivo -- resulting in copies of the Saturday 5am edition, for example. Guide garbage in, guide garbage out. My slow-going project is to schedule everything via scripted manual line-items synced to an online .CSV online, which I manipulate at one-degree remove in Zap2it or something. Probably will be finished around the time of entertainment broadcasting's demise.
Personally, the TiVo has more accurate guide information than WMC for me. Which is odd since both use Zap2It.

Right now, I just make sure my TiVo has the same season passes in it as my WMC machine and then copy the to-do list from my TiVo to WMC.

I did install a remote administration panel for WMC - I haven't tried it yet to see how well scheduling works with it. Perhaps it can shorten the amount of time it takes to copy the listings over...
Worf is offline  
Old 02-05-2014, 07:11 AM   #185
mr.unnatural
Registered User
 
mr.unnatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,548
I can't recall ever comparing the two side by side to see if there were any discrepencies when I was using both Tivo and a WMC PC. I can't ever remember a problem with guide data on either platform, except in the rare instance where a show I recorded on a regular basis was listed to be aired at some unusual time, only to discover that there was something different being aired in that time slot. The scheduled program was recorded but it wasn't what I expected to see.

I've seen this occur mostly with syndicated or independent programming and it usually raised a red flag when I saw the time slot where it was listed. As for regular series recordings and season passes, they recorded reliably well with but a few instances where a show started much later than usual due to Obama jumping in or some special news report or sporting event that ran over.

I'm wondering if WMC somehow isn't getting all of the metadata that Zap2it provides for each program listing. Either that or it's stripping some of it out. I doubt that Tivo, Inc., is adding data back into the guide datastream before it's being send to your Tivos.
mr.unnatural is offline  
Old 02-05-2014, 09:29 AM   #186
mschnebly
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 15
My WMC PC has been rock solid for about a year now and never misses a beat with one exception. Sometime a new show shows as a repeat on the guide and doesnt get recorded. This seems to happen with two shows so I do keep and eye out for those. It's controlled with my Harmony One and I only use a keyboard to do the monthly updates.
mschnebly is offline  
Old 02-05-2014, 12:27 PM   #187
mr.unnatural
Registered User
 
mr.unnatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,548
I'd be willing to bet that the two shows indicated as repeats are aired in another country before they get aired in the U.S. That technically makes them all repeats. Check the original air dates in the program descriptions and you'll probably find that it actually aired on an earlier date than the date in the guide.
mr.unnatural is offline  
Old 02-06-2014, 12:19 AM   #188
Worf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,643
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
I'd be willing to bet that the two shows indicated as repeats are aired in another country before they get aired in the U.S. That technically makes them all repeats. Check the original air dates in the program descriptions and you'll probably find that it actually aired on an earlier date than the date in the guide.
That's the reason most of my WMC guide data is inaccurate - WMC picks up the US OADs, while my TiVo correctly knows that if it's new in Canada, it's listed as new.

I don't know why or how TiVo seems to figure out that it's "new" to Canada - I just know if I set it to record all new Pawn Stars, or Mythbusters (both are constantly delayed weeks/months from US airing), it consistently picks them up as new (to me) episodes and has done so for the 8+ years I've had TiVo.

WMC picks up the "real" OAD, and thus always missed those shows unless I constantly intervene by copying the recording list from TiVo.

I don't know what's going on. Of course, the other annoyance is when guide data stops for a week and a half (it's happened 3-4 times over the past 3 years) - it always nearly runs out then it starts working again. There are a few persistent threads on the WMC forums when this happens - it's seems once it starts, it happens to everyone.
Worf is offline  
Old 02-06-2014, 06:39 AM   #189
mr.unnatural
Registered User
 
mr.unnatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worf View Post
That's the reason most of my WMC guide data is inaccurate - WMC picks up the US OADs, while my TiVo correctly knows that if it's new in Canada, it's listed as new.

I don't know why or how TiVo seems to figure out that it's "new" to Canada - I just know if I set it to record all new Pawn Stars, or Mythbusters (both are constantly delayed weeks/months from US airing), it consistently picks them up as new (to me) episodes and has done so for the 8+ years I've had TiVo.

WMC picks up the "real" OAD, and thus always missed those shows unless I constantly intervene by copying the recording list from TiVo.

I don't know what's going on. Of course, the other annoyance is when guide data stops for a week and a half (it's happened 3-4 times over the past 3 years) - it always nearly runs out then it starts working again. There are a few persistent threads on the WMC forums when this happens - it's seems once it starts, it happens to everyone.
This is where opinions tend to differ regarding the accuracy of WMC vs. Tivo guide data. Tivo probably filters the data to reflect the OAD for the region where it's being broadcast for the first time whereas WMC just passes along the raw data. The OAD listed in WMC is accurate with respect to the entire world, but not necessarily for the region where you live. I realize that some people find it annoying, but you really can't blame WMC for listing the actual Original Air Date instead of a fudged date for some specific locale. It's a nice feature for setting up season passes, but nothing that can't be easily worked around if the OAD differs from the current date.

I personally prefer knowing the actual OAD since it means that the entire series of episodes is probably available for download somewhere and I don't have to wait for them to air in real time where I live. For example, the season finale of Lost Girl airs in Canada this week whereas in the U.S. the SyFy Channel is only up to episode 4 or 5, IIRC. I've already seen episodes 1 thru 11 for the current season.


On another note, here's a review of the latest Bay Trail NUC small form factor PC that may be of interest to anyone looking for an inexpensive HTPC:

http://www.legitreviews.com/intel-nu...-review_135053

The system retails for about $130 and comes with a wireless NIC. It does not come with memory or a hard drive, but it can be used with a standard 2.5" laptop drive or SSD. It can be used to run OpenElec with XBMC if you're only interested in watching movies or Windows 8.1 Pro with Media Center. The OpenElec setup will cost you about $160 or so since you can run it off a flash drive and won't need a hard drive, but you will need memory. The Windows 8.1 version will require a hard drive and a Windows license, bringing the total up closer to $300 (Windows 7 drivers are not available at this time). They didn't address using it as a DVR, but I suspect it wouldn't be a problem if you attach an external drive to it for adequate storage. The DVR function in Windows uses very little processing power so it should work fine. Total energy consumption for the Bay Trail NUC is only about 7-10 watts.

I am personally not huge fan of low end PC systems, but this one is a ridiculous bargain for an entry level HTPC. I should note that due to the small size, adding internal peripherals isn't really an option. The unit also has a limited number of USB ports, but any inexpensive powered external USB hub will add more than enough USB ports for expansion. You can use USB tuners (lots of ATSC models and also Hauppauge and Ceton cablecard models) or networked tuners (Ceton InfiniTV 6 ETH or SD HDHomeRun Prime for cablecard and SD HDHR Dual for ATSC).

Last edited by mr.unnatural : 02-06-2014 at 09:45 AM.
mr.unnatural is offline  
Old 02-06-2014, 09:37 PM   #190
trip1eX
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
Yet it should be common sense when you think about it.
No it is all besides the point which is why it belongs in the fine print.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
The InfiniTV 6 has been going on sale for $250 quite often recently (in fact, it's on sale right now). I keep getting e-mails from Ceton about sales so I suspect you're going to see a permanent price drop on the horizon. You can buy a used InfiniTV 4 on ebay for less than $100 these days. The SiliconDust HDHomeRun Prime was on sale for only $80 with free shipping a day or two ago from TigerDirect, IIRC. The new six-tuner HDHomeRun Prime is supposed to be selling for only $150 when it comes out so I suspect Ceton will drop their price even further to be competitive. Newegg has a huge inventory of refurbed PCs that would work as a basic HTPC and sell for under $100 on occasion.
You already mentioned some of this. The point I made to this was that Tivos go on sale too and drop in price over the long run as well.

I never argued that if you wait and shop for parts for a WMC pc and don't care about quality of the parts or have parts at home that you can't pay less money.

I merely pointed out that if you wanted to go out and buy a 6-tuner WMC pc today the price is going to be about the same as a Romaio Plus. Everything you say about having parts at home or finding parts on sale is an asterisk to that. It may or may not apply. It may or may not save you money. It may or may not take up a lot of time. IT may or may not require a lot of work.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
You forgot to factor in the cost of lifetime service on your Roamio, which drives the cost up considerably higher.
NO I did not forget. The point was Tivos go on sale too. I merely pointed out that the Roamio Pro was recently $175 cheaper than its list price.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
FYI - there are lots of HTPC cabinets available that look like any other AV component. I've got a Silverstone case that looks right at home next to my Onkyo Pro preamp/processor. Here's a link to the same case with a silver finish (mine's all black):

http://www.silverstonetek.com/produc...=en&model=lc14
You are arguing out of context here. I am replying to your $300 off the shelf pc response which was your reply to me when I said a WMC pc with 6 tuners is about the same as a Roamio Plus. Those $300 pcs aren't housed in nice Silverstone cases. I have a Silverstone case btw. IT was around $80 just for the case. A nicer cabinet case only makes a wmc pc more expensive.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
I don't recall ever having a temperature issue in my HTPC. The Cetons do run warm, but nothing too extreme that would cause any problems.
I don't think you recall anything about WMC except it working. But forums are full of these discussions. And temps are always something to be aware about when being your own system configurator.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
How is it not a real copy of Windows? Just because I'm not using it as a desktop PC doesn't change the OS. You only have to deal with bloatware if you buy a preconfigured PC from a major manufacturer. You can always wipe the drive and reinstall Windows without all of that crap. I usually remove it from any preconfigured PC.
NO preconfigured pc has a real copy of windows ie a disc with just Windows on it. Alot of them don't even give you a disc any more either. Again there is context here. You mentioned buying $300 pcs. I presumed they had Windows on them otherwise that is another $100ish expense.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
Any PC can be made virtually dead silent with the right cooling devices.
Again you lost context here. I mention a pc being louder or hotter only in reply to your notion that you can just buy a cheap pc and all is good. Cheap pcs aren't known to be quiet. And any time and expense in making your pc cooler and quieter just adds to the cost of your htpc.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
Configuring Windows Media Center shouldn't be any more difficult than setting up a Tivo. I just load up the software, make a few settings and I'm good to go. It's a little more involved than that, but not all that complicated. Gremlins can creep into the situation on occasion and Murphy's Law is always present so there's no foolproof way to set up a HTPC, although it's been ages since I've personally had any HTPC issues.
Put the kool-aid down and back away.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
I can't argue about the effeciency with respect to power usage. However, newer hardware is more efficient than ever before. My Intel NUCs probably use about the same power as your Roamio. You also have to factor in that a HTPC performs the same tasks as multiple individual components so the overall power usage is probably going to be a wash.
Context!! And I don't have a Roamio. I have a WMC pc. Cheap pcs are cheap for a reason. It costs $$$$$ money to make your pc more efficient, quieter and cooler in a more pleasing form factor. And that only puts a WMC pc closer to the price of a Roamio Plus.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
I also dabble in woodworking on occasion, so what you're suggesting isn't as farfetched as you make it sound. Building a wood frame for a couch isn't all that difficult. I just don't have the upholstering skills to make it work, although I'm sure I could learn them if I had the time to invest.
Oh so you don't have time to invest in building a new couch? How could that be? AFter reading arguments for building your WMC pc, I thought time was unlimited and costs nothing?

Last edited by trip1eX : 02-06-2014 at 10:00 PM.
trip1eX is offline  
Old 02-06-2014, 09:41 PM   #191
trip1eX
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyted View Post
I do not count the time it takes to set it up as an expense since I consider it a fun hobby. It is more than 20 hours. It is a never ending process of improving the HTPC. If I were to compare it to my salary, it would be a wee bit more than $10 per hour as a licensed engineer.

Comcast in Palm Beach County, FL does not flag channels as copy protected except for premium channels and the MoviePlex channel.

YOu only reinforce my point.

Last edited by trip1eX : 02-06-2014 at 10:00 PM.
trip1eX is offline  
Old 02-06-2014, 11:50 PM   #192
mr.unnatural
Registered User
 
mr.unnatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,548
Never mind. Disregard this post.

Last edited by mr.unnatural : 02-07-2014 at 07:25 AM.
mr.unnatural is offline  
Old 02-07-2014, 12:38 AM   #193
Worf
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 1,643
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
This is where opinions tend to differ regarding the accuracy of WMC vs. Tivo guide data. Tivo probably filters the data to reflect the OAD for the region where it's being broadcast for the first time whereas WMC just passes along the raw data. The OAD listed in WMC is accurate with respect to the entire world, but not necessarily for the region where you live. I realize that some people find it annoying, but you really can't blame WMC for listing the actual Original Air Date instead of a fudged date for some specific locale. It's a nice feature for setting up season passes, but nothing that can't be easily worked around if the OAD differs from the current date.

I personally prefer knowing the actual OAD since it means that the entire series of episodes is probably available for download somewhere and I don't have to wait for them to air in real time where I live. For example, the season finale of Lost Girl airs in Canada this week whereas in the U.S. the SyFy Channel is only up to episode 4 or 5, IIRC. I've already seen episodes 1 thru 11 for the current season.
Actually, TiVo DOES list the correct OAD. However, the "new" flag is correct for the region it's in. TiVo uses the right OAD for the copyright date shown in the listings, and if you hit "info" it lists the proper OAD for that episode.

So the raw data on TiVo is correct. However, TiVo does filter it so "new to you" episodes, even if the OAD is long gone (we're still having Pawn Stars from mid-2013 as "new"), it's still picked up as a "new episode only" season pass.

WMC doesn't, which means "new episodes only" are kinda worthless except on network programming (which have identical air dates). And with a show like Pawn Stars which are endlessly reshown and syndicated, the season pass is sort of useless - record all and you get all the reruns as well, record new and nothing records, which means it has to be manually scheduled in. (And oddly, WMC only shows a set number of items in the "Other Showings", usually just not enough despite having the guide data).
Worf is offline  
Old 02-07-2014, 06:04 AM   #194
steve614
what ru lookin at?
 
steve614's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Dallas, TX
Posts: 10,722
I'm amused every time mr. unnatural brings up trolls. His definition for a troll seems to be 'anyone who disagrees with him'.
__________________
The Man Prayer: I'm a man ...... I can change ...... If I have to ...... I guess.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

F*CK CANCER!
steve614 is offline  
Old 02-07-2014, 06:55 AM   #195
mr.unnatural
Registered User
 
mr.unnatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by steve614 View Post
I'm amused every time mr. unnatural brings up trolls. His definition for a troll seems to be 'anyone who disagrees with him'.
OK, looking back at tripleX's post I see that I may have been a bit harsh in my response. I got home late last night and posted that when I was getting ready to pass out from exhaustion so it didn't come across the way I intended.

tripleX - while the original "context" of our discussion was in regard to an off-the-shelf PC for use with WMC, I only recommend using them as a starting point. Most people that build HTPCs tend to spend more than they would for a Tivo. Any price comparisons between the two platforms is moot because the value is in the eye of the beholder. HTPC users are more likely to invest in a nicer case and quieter fans and not gripe about the added cost. My mention of an off-the-shelf $300 PC was on target with the discussion as it pertained to what it would cost to build a basic HTPC. You can nitpick individual things about a HTPC vs. a Tivo, but everything you mentioned is easily resolved without breaking the bank.

Apparently, what I view as common sense with regards to building a HTPC doesn't agree with your opinion so we'll leave it at that. I'd like to think people would have enough common sense to research something before they jump into it with both feet. There's no "fine print" involved. Anything you want to know about HTPCs is openly available to anyone that takes the time to do a little research.

I have always recommended using an existing PC as a test platform before investing in any other PC hardware for use as a HTPC. If that's not feasible then I point them to the off-the-shelf turnkey option. I would never recommend that anyone jump in and buy all new hardware for their first HTPC build.

Here's but one example of a low cost solution for a HTPC:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883265683

Newegg has a huge selection of refurbished desktop PCs that could easily be converted for use as a HTPC. They're cheap and most of them come with Windows 7 pre-installed. Many of them are also in a small form factor desktop design that wouldn't be as obtrusive as a tower case.

I just noticed that the PC I referenced does not have an HDMI output. It does, however, have a couple of expansion slots so you could add an inexpensive low profile graphics card with HDMI output that is HDCP compliant for about $40.

Last edited by mr.unnatural : 02-07-2014 at 12:24 PM.
mr.unnatural is offline  
Old 02-08-2014, 08:02 AM   #196
heyted
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by trip1eX View Post
YOu only reinforce my point.
What I was trying to get across is that most people do not consider the time spent doing something that they enjoy as an expense. Most people do not consider the price of going to see their favorite football team as the price of the ticket plus an hourly rate equivalent to their wage for four hours. I agree that some people do not enjoy working with hardware or software as a hobby-- dtivouser, are we having fun yet?

Most TiVo users are stuck with the software that is on their TiVo (except for apps). Users of the TiVo service are legally required to accept whatever software TiVo Inc. decides to install on the TiVo at any time. I consider the ability for people to install and, in some cases, change the software on their HTPC until their heart is content an advantage that an HTPC has over TiVo. I agree that some people do not mind (or actually prefer) having no control over the software. It is just a personal preference.

Last edited by heyted : 02-08-2014 at 08:25 AM.
heyted is offline  
Old 02-08-2014, 08:14 AM   #197
heyted
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 168
A low cost HTPC can be very quiet. Quality and nearly silent fans can be purchased or manufactured for a very low cost. Zotac did a great job with the D2550-ITX line with regard to noise. Mine is nearly silent.
heyted is offline  
Old 02-08-2014, 09:07 AM   #198
heyted
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtivouser View Post
Really, I think this PC and my Romaio both should spend time at the bottom of a swimming pool.
Sorry to hear you are having trouble with both. Did you get the TA to work with just WMC and drivers installed? Does/did the TA work fine with the TiVo?
heyted is offline  
Old 02-08-2014, 10:28 AM   #199
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyted View Post
A low cost HTPC can be very quiet. Quality and nearly silent fans can be purchased or manufactured for a very low cost. Zotac did a great job with the D2550-ITX line with regard to noise. Mine is nearly silent.
Quite true. Noise definitely isn't the issue. My HTPC is usually dead silent, and could be dead silent all the time if I replaced the stock HSF.
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline  
Old 02-08-2014, 11:57 AM   #200
dtivouser
Registered User
 
dtivouser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,729
TC CLUB MEMBER
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyted View Post
Sorry to hear you are having trouble with both. Did you get the TA to work with just WMC and drivers installed? Does/did the TA work fine with the TiVo?
The TA works with WMC... sometimes. I can't rely on it. It all works fine, then I do something complicated like change the channel, and it breaks. Completely frustrated with trying to fix it.
dtivouser is offline  
Old 02-08-2014, 12:28 PM   #201
moonscape
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2004
Location: SF Bay Area
Posts: 388
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
Your Tivos must be quieter than mine. I have never owned a Tivo where the drive didn't seek constantly. I could never have one in my bedroom for all the noise they make. My NUCs are almost dead silent. You can't turn off the buffers on a Tivo so it's always recording something.
This amazes me; I must've gotten very very lucky.

I'm extremely noise sensitive and have had 5 Tivos (3 S2s, 1 S3, 1 HD) and now a new Roamio - always in my bedroom and have never heard one unless I went and put my ear to it. Head of my bed is about 13' from the open sideboard the Tivos have lived on, i.e. they've not been behind closed doors. Two of the S2s were in a secondary residence with a smaller bedroom, maybe 8' from Tivo to bed headboard. I've replaced 3 of the hard drives, always with the one that was rated the quietest, so have had a mix of original drives and replacements.

My new Roamio has only been in operation for one day but so far it's the same quiet experience as the others.
moonscape is offline  
Old 02-08-2014, 01:29 PM   #202
heyted
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: South Florida
Posts: 168
Quote:
Originally Posted by dtivouser View Post
The main problem with my Roamio has to do with TA issues
Have you had your cable provider come to your home and check the tuning adapter and lines? You probably already know this, but if there is a problem with the TA, your cable provider must provide support.
http://www.fcc.gov/guides/cablecard-know-your-rights
http://www.fcc.gov/encyclopedia/cablecards
heyted is offline  
Old 02-08-2014, 02:55 PM   #203
mr.unnatural
Registered User
 
mr.unnatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by moonscape View Post
This amazes me; I must've gotten very very lucky.

I'm extremely noise sensitive and have had 5 Tivos (3 S2s, 1 S3, 1 HD) and now a new Roamio - always in my bedroom and have never heard one unless I went and put my ear to it. Head of my bed is about 13' from the open sideboard the Tivos have lived on, i.e. they've not been behind closed doors. Two of the S2s were in a secondary residence with a smaller bedroom, maybe 8' from Tivo to bed headboard. I've replaced 3 of the hard drives, always with the one that was rated the quietest, so have had a mix of original drives and replacements.

My new Roamio has only been in operation for one day but so far it's the same quiet experience as the others.
I've owned literally dozens of Tivos and I can say that the noise levels they generate isn't consistent across the board. I've upgraded every Tivo that's come into my possession with larger hard drives so it could have been an issue with the particular drive I installed. I had an S3 in a wooden TV stand with an open shelf right below the TV and I could hear the drive constantly seeking as soon as I entered the room. I'm sure this was probably an exception to the rule as I know all hard drives aren't as noisy as this one was.

If there's one thing I've learned it's that you can't condemn an entire product line just because you had a bad experience with it. I've had bad experiences with lots of products, but reading reviews from other owners clearly showed me that my experience was not the norm. I'll relay my experiences to others, but I also advise that they try it for themselves as others have achieved better results than me. For the most part, I've had great experiences with Tivo. I've had mixed experiences with HTPCs, but there turned out to be valid reasons why they occurred for the most part. Other times I just scratched my head and couldn't find an explanation for why things went wonky. I could usually get the problem resolved with a reinstall of Windows.

For the past couple of years, every installation has gone smooth as silk and everything has been hunky dory (knock on wood). I can't say I'm surprised that people still have issues with WMC because sometimes things just refuse to cooperate and drive you a little nuts in the process. That's why we call it a hobby and not a turnkey solution. Other have a bad experience and it brings out the Chicken Little in them.

Last edited by mr.unnatural : 02-08-2014 at 03:06 PM.
mr.unnatural is offline  
Old 02-08-2014, 03:00 PM   #204
dtivouser
Registered User
 
dtivouser's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: SoCal
Posts: 1,729
TC CLUB MEMBER
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyted View Post
Have you had your cable provider come to your home and check the tuning adapter and lines?
Heh, because of Roamio's colossal suckage and this HTPC project, when I walk into the local Time Warner office, Becky calls me by name and asks "how many" TA's and CC's we're swapping today, not "what can I do for you".

The lines are fine. I even get Tivo's fud about the signal being too good.
dtivouser is offline  
Old 02-08-2014, 03:07 PM   #205
mr.unnatural
Registered User
 
mr.unnatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,548
That's never a good sign when the people at your local cable TV office know you on a first name basis. FWIW, I went through a cablecard fiasco with Verizon this past week. The good news is that the people I spoke with were in the U.S. and spoke fluent English. For some reason my cablecard in my HTPC tuner lost the validation signal and it wouldn't update via the automated phone menu or when the techs tried to do it for me. They ended up sending me a replacement cablecard. They actually sent me two cards for some reason. I tried to activate just one of them over the phone and when it asked me for the info on the 2nd card I said skip it into the phone and got kicked out of the conversation and automatically forwarded to tech support. After an hour of the tech fiddling with it I finally got live TV on encrypted channels. Apparently Verizon was experiencing difficulties with cablecard activations at the time and the techs clearly did not get the memo. It didn't help that either tech I spoke with was really not familiar with the cablecard activation process because they were asking me for info that they said was either on the cablecard or the box it came in. I had to convince them that all they needed was the cablecard ID, Host ID, and Data ID to get the card activated.

Last edited by mr.unnatural : 02-08-2014 at 03:15 PM.
mr.unnatural is offline  
Old 02-14-2014, 11:04 AM   #206
trip1eX
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by heyted View Post
What I was trying to get across is that most people do not consider the time spent doing something that they enjoy as an expense. Most people do not consider the price of going to see their favorite football team as the price of the ticket plus an hourly rate equivalent to their wage for four hours. I agree that some people do not enjoy working with hardware or software as a hobby-- dtivouser, are we having fun yet?
WEll going to a football game isn't a good analogy as you aren't comparing it to anything.

For it to make more sense you would have to compare it, for example and off the top of my head, to getting similar tickets for $100 less if you help your uncle move out of this house this coming weekend, park 45 minutes away in a free spot on game day and sit a few seats apart from your wife.

And then of course, you don't mention the "moving your uncle's furniture" part or "not sitting together" when telling your buddy about the cost of your football tickets.

Anyway I mentioned the hobbyist things earlier so you're preaching to the choir. Hobbyists falls under the fine print. Hobbyists generally don't need to be told about their hobby. The vast majority aren't software/hardware hobbyists. And the time one wants to put into a project is a very personal choice. I'm just pointing out that your exception only proves the rule.




Quote:
Originally Posted by heyted View Post
Most TiVo users are stuck with the software that is on their TiVo (except for apps). Users of the TiVo service are legally required to accept whatever software TiVo Inc. decides to install on the TiVo at any time. I consider the ability for people to install and, in some cases, change the software on their HTPC until their heart is content an advantage that an HTPC has over TiVo. I agree that some people do not mind (or actually prefer) having no control over the software. It is just a personal preference.
This is a new argument. And more of an emotional one at that instead of a logical one. And a very convoluted argument too.

And as far as I know you have no choice in cabletv recording software on your pc. IT's WMC or nothing. That's the rule.

The exception would be if you have unencrypted channels. But that's the exception.

Last edited by trip1eX : 02-14-2014 at 11:15 AM.
trip1eX is offline  
Old 02-14-2014, 11:29 AM   #207
trip1eX
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,079
Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
OK, looking back at tripleX's post I see that I may have been a bit harsh in my response. I got home late last night and posted that when I was getting ready to pass out from exhaustion so it didn't come across the way I intended.

tripleX - while the original "context" of our discussion was in regard to an off-the-shelf PC for use with WMC, I only recommend using them as a starting point. Most people that build HTPCs tend to spend more than they would for a Tivo. Any price comparisons between the two platforms is moot because the value is in the eye of the beholder. HTPC users are more likely to invest in a nicer case and quieter fans and not gripe about the added cost. My mention of an off-the-shelf $300 PC was on target with the discussion as it pertained to what it would cost to build a basic HTPC. You can nitpick individual things about a HTPC vs. a Tivo, but everything you mentioned is easily resolved without breaking the bank.
Don't worry I didn't get to see your post.

But I think you are the one that is nitpicking. You are nitpicking my argument that an HTPC is a similar price to a Roamio and that any small savings is moot considering the resale value of a Roamio and the quality and time savings. I think what won't break the bank is paying a few extra bucks for a Roamio Plus.


Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
Apparently, what I view as common sense with regards to building a HTPC doesn't agree with your opinion so we'll leave it at that. I'd like to think people would have enough common sense to research something before they jump into it with both feet. There's no "fine print" involved. Anything you want to know about HTPCs is openly available to anyone that takes the time to do a little research.
Nothing to do with common sense.

You want the WMC pc to be much cheaper than a Roamio Plus. But when someone points out that this comes with many caveats then you say you can overcome those. But when someone points out that the WMC pc is then no longer a cheaper option you cry foul!!!

The "research" that comes with a building a WMC pc is part of the "fine print."

Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
I have always recommended using an existing PC as a test platform before investing in any other PC hardware for use as a HTPC. If that's not feasible then I point them to the off-the-shelf turnkey option. I would never recommend that anyone jump in and buy all new hardware for their first HTPC build.
Or you could just be done with it and buy a Roamio Plus. Get all the advantages with none of the headaches and trial and error and test platforms to final platforms talk..... And again, if you do happen to pay a bit more money then it certainly won't break the bank.



Quote:
Originally Posted by mr.unnatural View Post
Here's but one example of a low cost solution for a HTPC:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produc...82E16883265683

Newegg has a huge selection of refurbished desktop PCs that could easily be converted for use as a HTPC. They're cheap and most of them come with Windows 7 pre-installed. Many of them are also in a small form factor desktop design that wouldn't be as obtrusive as a tower case.

I just noticed that the PC I referenced does not have an HDMI output. It does, however, have a couple of expansion slots so you could add an inexpensive low profile graphics card with HDMI output that is HDCP compliant for about +$40.


Last edited by trip1eX : 02-14-2014 at 11:36 AM.
trip1eX is offline  
Old 02-14-2014, 11:36 AM   #208
mr.unnatural
Registered User
 
mr.unnatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,548
Quote:
Originally Posted by trip1eX View Post
This is a new argument. And more of an emotional one at that instead of a logical one. And a very convoluted argument too.
Back for your weekly session of poking the bear? How on earth is heyted's response an emotional argument? Are you saying that personal preference has absolutely no bearing on what a person chooses to purchase or make use of? It's a very valid argument and also quite logical. Tivo is a fixed platform with virtually zero room for modification or customization, especially with the most recent models. A HTPC configuration is fluid. You can change the hardware or software to suit your taste and requirements. You can customize it for additional features and appearance. You can also choose to go with something other than Windows Media Center if you prefer a different front end. If someone prefers not to have this level of control then Tivo would clearly be their personal preference. Those of us that like to tinker and have more control over what our DVRs can do prefer something a bit different. Personal preference has everything to do with it.

There is always a caveat with any venture into an area that's new or unfamiliar. If you want to call it fine print then fine. However, if you don't read the "fine print" then that's on you. If you don't already know what you're getting yourself into then you haven't done your homework. Again, this is common sense for most of us. You simply don't jump into something like building and configuring a HTPC without prior knowledge of what's involved. If you don't, you'll be in over your head before you realize what happened. Anyone that's worked with PCs knows this to be a fact and not simply conjecture. It's like trying to hack a Tivo without doing any research first. Your philosophy is on the same level as someone requiring a warning label on a coffee cup at McDonald's to inform them that the contents may be hot.

All this talk about time being money and so forth is superfluous and irrelevant. If that's how you have to measure time having fun then it's clearly not your thing. You can't put a price on time spent doing something you enjoy. I don't sit around thinking about how much time I spend on a hobby vs. what pay rate I get for doing my regular job. If anything, I look forward to spending the time away from my regular job doing something fun and rewarding.

Last edited by mr.unnatural : 02-14-2014 at 04:59 PM.
mr.unnatural is offline  
Old 02-14-2014, 11:47 AM   #209
mr.unnatural
Registered User
 
mr.unnatural's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Posts: 3,548
Quote:
But I think you are the one that is nitpicking. You are nitpicking my argument that an HTPC is a similar price to a Roamio and that any small savings is moot considering the resale value of a Roamio and the quality and time savings. I think what won't break the bank is paying a few extra bucks for a Roamio Plus.
The conversation was based on what you could spend on a HTPC and not what people would actually spend. I'll admit that the average HTPC will probably be more expensive than a comparable Tivo, but that's usually by choice. You can put whatever you want into it. You can have a barebones setup that costs less than a Tivo with lifetime or you can go for broke and have one that costs in the 4-figure range. I've only made the argument that a HTPC can be made for less than what a Tivo costs with lifetime. I have personally spent well over $2,000 on my HTPC over the years, but that includes numerous upgrades and several complete overhauls.

Quote:
Nothing to do with common sense.

You want the WMC pc to be much cheaper than a Roamio Plus. But when someone points out that this comes with many caveats then you say you can overcome those. But when someone points out that the WMC pc is then no longer a cheaper option you cry foul!!!
See my above comment. Nobody's crying foul about anything.

Quote:
The "research" that comes with a building a WMC pc is part of the "fine print."
See my prior post.

Quote:
Or you could just be done with it and buy a Roamio Plus. Get all the advantages with none of the headaches and trial and error and test platforms to final platforms talk..... And again, if you do happen to pay a bit more money then it certainly won't break the bank.
If a Roamio Plus is what you want then go for it. Nobody is arguing that you should ditch Tivo in favor of a HTPC. It's clearly not your thing so stick with something that works for you.

Last edited by mr.unnatural : 02-14-2014 at 04:53 PM.
mr.unnatural is offline  
Old 02-14-2014, 04:54 PM   #210
Bigg
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Hartford- New Haven CT
Posts: 3,422
Quote:
Originally Posted by trip1eX View Post
Don't worry I didn't get to see your post.

But I think you are the one that is nitpicking. You are nitpicking my argument that an HTPC is a similar price to a Roamio and that any small savings is moot considering the resale value of a Roamio and the quality and time savings. I think what won't break the bank is paying a few extra bucks for a Roamio Plus.

Nothing to do with common sense.

You want the WMC pc to be much cheaper than a Roamio Plus. But when someone points out that this comes with many caveats then you say you can overcome those. But when someone points out that the WMC pc is then no longer a cheaper option you cry foul!!!

The "research" that comes with a building a WMC pc is part of the "fine print."

Or you could just be done with it and buy a Roamio Plus. Get all the advantages with none of the headaches and trial and error and test platforms to final platforms talk..... And again, if you do happen to pay a bit more money then it certainly won't break the bank.

Exactly. He's obsessed with MCE, even though in reality, TiVo is the far better option for all but the most hard-core tinkerers.
__________________
My Place: Premiere XL4 Lifetime 3/26/13 XFinity
3 TiVo Mini's on MoCA
Formerly Win MCE 3TB Ceton4 XFinity
Parents: XFinity Motorola AnyRoom DVR
80 HR Series 2 Lifetime 4/11/04 DEAD as of 11/2010
Bigg is offline  
Closed Thread
Forum Jump




Thread Tools


Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Advertisements

TiVo Community
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.6.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
vBulletin Skins by: Relivo Media

(C) 2013 Magenium Solutions - All Rights Reserved. No information may be posted elsewhere without written permission.
TiVoŽ is a registered trademark of TiVo Inc. This site is not owned or operated by TiVo Inc.
All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:26 AM.
OUR NETWORK: MyOpenRouter | TechLore | SansaCommunity | RoboCommunity | MediaSmart Home | Explore3DTV | Dijit Community | DVR Playground |