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View Poll Results: Have you attempted to use out of home streaming and succeeded?
Yes, it works fantastic, this poster is full of crap. 27 67.50%
Yes, I tried but it wouldn't work, Tivo marketing is full of crap. 6 15.00%
No, I haven't tried. I'm sure someday Apple could do it if Tivo can't. 4 10.00%
No, I don't care about this. 3 7.50%
Voters: 40. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-04-2014, 07:59 PM   #1
tamooreindy
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Is out of home streaming a scam?

Every program in "My Shows" on my Roamio Plus, when I attempt to stream to my iPad it has a message that the copyright holder restricts streaming out of home. I think it's a sales scam. I was looking forward to watching a hockey game this evening. I think I got duped. I just spent $1,000 for Roamio, Mini TV, both with lifetime. I went through every setting I could find to ensure it was setup for out of home streaming. I love my Tivo but I feel this out of home streaming thing is dishonest and I'm disappointed. I honestly don't think it's necessary to make claims for features that are unusable in order to make money. Lack of integrity.
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Old 02-05-2014, 03:45 AM   #2
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That's your cable companies fault. Most only protect the Premium channels, but some, like Time Warner and some areas of Cox, protect everything. Except the locals. It's illegal for them to protect the locals, so those should work.
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:29 AM   #3
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No, it's equally if not more so Tivo's fault for rolling over and playing dead, especially when in-home streaming is allowed.

At the least this is misleading advertising on Tivo's part, i.e. this page says nothing about the limitation that would be clear to any potential buyer.
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Old 02-05-2014, 06:38 AM   #4
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Your survey needs the option: "I haven't used it since I'm an android user."
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Old 02-05-2014, 10:46 AM   #5
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No, it's equally if not more so Tivo's fault for rolling over and playing dead, especially when in-home streaming is allowed.

At the least this is misleading advertising on Tivo's part, i.e. this page says nothing about the limitation that would be clear to any potential buyer.
I agree it's not made clear to potential buyers. If it weren't for this forum I probably wouldn't know about that limitation either. Luckily it doesn't affect me as only premium channels are CCI protected and I don't subscribe to those channels anyway.
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:18 AM   #6
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That's your cable companies fault. Most only protect the Premium channels, but some, like Time Warner and some areas of Cox, protect everything. Except the locals. It's illegal for them to protect the locals, so those should work.
Dan nailed it, this isn't a Tivo problem since for many of us it works fine, the issue is your cable company that is overly aggressive on its protection, for my VZ FiOS install I can stream every channel I receive OOH, that's not a "scam" that's a feature that I appreciate.
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:22 AM   #7
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Lucky you, in other words it doesn't affect me so nyah nyah nyah. It is Tivo's problem as much as it is the fascist cableCos.
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:27 AM   #8
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While it doesn't affect me I still see a "misleading" element in that TiVo doesn't clearly state that OOH streaming won't work for CCI protected channels on all relevant pages. I'm pretty sure I remember seeing fine print somewhere about that fact, but like the page linked to above doesn't mention is an example of misleading advertising. Another example of that is that H.264 channels don't work at all - but it's hard to find any mention of that in advertising pages either. The best place for such information is these forums.
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:33 AM   #9
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That's your cable companies fault. Most only protect the Premium channels, but some, like Time Warner and some areas of Cox, protect everything. Except the locals. It's illegal for them to protect the locals, so those should work.
I don't see anything on Tivo's page that says anything about unless you have Time Warner, etc.

http://www.tivo.com/discover/tivo-anywhere

Bottom line is it doesn't work for everyone as it is described on the marketing for the product. Don't get me wrong, I love my new Tivo. I would have purchased without this feature. I'm simply offended that Tivo advertising is misleading by leaving out part of the story. It's called a lie of omission. They didn't disclose the whole story; that it doesn't work for everyone. I'm not a Tivo hater, I'm a Tivo lover. I just think the advertising for this feature is dishonest and deceptive.
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Old 02-05-2014, 11:36 AM   #10
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Your survey needs the option: "I haven't used it since I'm an android user."
Haha, I agree. Sorry I'll try to be more inclusive next time.
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:44 PM   #11
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Lucky you, in other words it doesn't affect me so nyah nyah nyah. It is Tivo's problem as much as it is the fascist cableCos.
No, in NO WAY is it a Tivo problem, their network and functionality is fine, it's the CableCO that the issue. I'm not thumbing my nose and saying "neener neener neener mine works" I'm saying the scummy CableCO is the cause of the issue, not Tivo.
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Old 02-05-2014, 02:48 PM   #12
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We still don't know if TiVo made the decision to prevent OOH streaming of protected channels to cover their own ass, or if they were actually instructed to do so by Cable Labs. None of this is laid out in the CableCARD rules, and there is no other precedent in the cable market, so they're at the mercy of what Cable Labs will allow. Perhaps this is just temporary until they can get approval from Cable Labs? The point is we really don't know.
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Old 02-06-2014, 03:50 AM   #13
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Dan nailed it, this isn't a Tivo problem since for many of us it works fine, the issue is your cable company that is overly aggressive on its protection, for my VZ FiOS install I can stream every channel I receive OOH, that's not a "scam" that's a feature that I appreciate.
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Old 02-06-2014, 07:43 AM   #14
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No, in NO WAY is it a Tivo problem, their network and functionality is fine, it's the CableCO that the issue. I'm not thumbing my nose and saying "neener neener neener mine works" I'm saying the scummy CableCO is the cause of the issue, not Tivo.
If Tivo would grow some balls and actually work on behalf of their retail customer instead of just rolling over, it wouldn't have been a problem at all.

But we all know how their bread is buttered, and it's not at retail.
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Old 02-07-2014, 07:19 AM   #15
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Yeah most content is copyrighted so Tivo streaming is pretty much worthless.I watch a lot of premium movies.

I bought a couple of slingboxes because of all the Tivo Roamio streaming issues and could not be happier.

Just used them for 2 weeks and rarely did I get any buffering and I can watch anything that I recorded or that's on tv.
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Old 02-07-2014, 07:20 AM   #16
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If Tivo would grow some balls and actually work on behalf of their retail customer instead of just rolling over, it wouldn't have been a problem at all.

But we all know how their bread is buttered, and it's not at retail.
You are correct,but that would cost Tivo money .

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Old 02-07-2014, 07:13 PM   #17
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Yeah most content is copyrighted so Tivo streaming is pretty much worthless.I watch a lot of premium movies.

I bought a couple of slingboxes because of all the Tivo Roamio streaming issues and could not be happier.

Just used them for 2 weeks and rarely did I get any buffering and I can watch anything that I recorded or that's on tv.
I had a Slingbox. It's got it's own set of problems. One is that it's connected to the output of a TiVo so you're tying up that TiVo while you're watching. That can be problematic if the TiVo is shared with other family members. The Stream is completely independent and does not effect the source TiVo. The second is that controls are basically useless. FF/RW is impossible. IR and 30 second skip kind of work, but you may have to adjust the number of times you press them to account for the delay. (i.e. pres IR extra and 30 seconds skip less) The TiVo Stream bases it's seeks on what you're actually seeing on screen so they always land where you want them.

That being said if your shows are all protected then there is really no other option. Although eventually the analog hole is going to close and when it does you're going to be in the same boat no matter which device you use. (a Slingbox connected via HDMI has the same restrictions as a TiVo Stream)
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Old 02-09-2014, 03:21 PM   #18
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I had a Slingbox. It's got it's own set of problems. One is that it's connected to the output of a TiVo so you're tying up that TiVo while you're watching. That can be problematic if the TiVo is shared with other family members. The Stream is completely independent and does not effect the source TiVo. The second is that controls are basically useless. FF/RW is impossible. IR and 30 second skip kind of work, but you may have to adjust the number of times you press them to account for the delay. (i.e. pres IR extra and 30 seconds skip less) The TiVo Stream bases it's seeks on what you're actually seeing on screen so they always land where you want them.

That being said if your shows are all protected then there is really no other option. Although eventually the analog hole is going to close and when it does you're going to be in the same boat no matter which device you use. (a Slingbox connected via HDMI has the same restrictions as a TiVo Stream)
So when is the analog hole closing? What info do you have that says this is gonna happen?
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Old 02-09-2014, 03:26 PM   #19
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If Tivo would grow some balls and actually work on behalf of their retail customer instead of just rolling over, it wouldn't have been a problem at all.

But we all know how their bread is buttered, and it's not at retail.
Yes grow a set or maybe you don't survive as Apple,Google,etc get the licenses to stream live tv and premium content through their devices with cloud storage to watch tv anywhere you are.

It's coming .3 years or less i'm guessing.

Comcast ,Time Warner and Co. are scared to death of the direction TV will take and of course they will try to price internet only service through the roof with punitive data caps to boot but the writing is on the wall.
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Old 02-09-2014, 10:30 PM   #20
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So when is the analog hole closing? What info do you have that says this is gonna happen?
It's probably years off, but it's going to happen. You can't buy a new TV today that doesn't have at least one HDMI input. So in a few years there will be no need for analog outputs on HD cable boxes. And once that happens the content providers will be in complete control.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:31 AM   #21
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It's probably years off, but it's going to happen. You can't buy a new TV today that doesn't have at least one HDMI input. So in a few years there will be no need for analog outputs on HD cable boxes. And once that happens the content providers will be in complete control.
I'm fairly confident even then there will at least be a market for HDMI->component converters (even if it's a black market).
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Old 02-10-2014, 06:47 AM   #22
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Get a home router with built in VPN and use that with your tablet/phone. (ASUS)
Problem solved.
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Old 02-10-2014, 07:19 AM   #23
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It's probably years off, but it's going to happen. You can't buy a new TV today that doesn't have at least one HDMI input. So in a few years there will be no need for analog outputs on HD cable boxes. And once that happens the content providers will be in complete control.
I don't see this affecting OTA reception of ATSC digital broadcasts, but otherwise I'm sure you are spot on as far as cable and satellite providers are concerned.

Where the interests of consumers are pitted against corporations...

The OP has a legitimate gripe, TiVo should provide more information about the limitations of their streaming, but the source of this problem is actually the provider OP is using, smells like Time Warner.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:21 PM   #24
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There are laws that prevent anything broadcast via public airwaves from being protected. There was something called the Broadcast Flag the OTA providers tried to get enforced a few years ago but it was struck down by a federal appeals court. So OTA is likely to always be open even if we transition to HDMI. Cable on the other hand has the ability to protect anything they want. The only content provider that currently requires protection is HBO, but most protect all premium channels, and some protect everything but the locals.

Our only hope is that someone in the canle industry develops their own OOH streaming capabilities that support protected content, so TiVo has precedent. Or that TiVo sacks up and allows it and just hopes they don't get sued.
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Old 02-10-2014, 01:28 PM   #25
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I'm fairly confident even then there will at least be a market for HDMI->component converters (even if it's a black market).
You're probably right. Someone cracked HDCP a few years ago and there are already black market devices that can strip it, so there will likely always be a way. But average users aren't going to know about that or seek it out.
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Old 02-13-2014, 07:28 AM   #26
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Tivo should(not sure if it does) put on every Roamio box in bold print that some channels are copyright protected and cannot be streamed.
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Old 02-13-2014, 01:08 PM   #27
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Tivo should(not sure if it does) put on every Roamio box in bold print that some channels are copyright protected and cannot be streamed.
Companies don't typically advertise limitations. At best it will be in some fine print with an asterisk next to it.
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Old 02-13-2014, 03:41 PM   #28
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Companies don't typically advertise limitations. At best it will be in some fine print with an asterisk next to it.
Well many people who are not familiar with streaming limitations are gonna be quite disappointed if this info is withheld.

Furthermore,Tivo was marketing the streaming feature pretty hard from what I recall.
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Old 02-14-2014, 12:00 AM   #29
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I agree there will be disappointed people. And those people have the option of returning it for a full refund in the first 30 days. No reason for TiVo to put big bold letters on the box explaining what it can't do. That might scare off customers who it would work for but don't understand the terminology.
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Old 02-14-2014, 03:06 PM   #30
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Tivo should(not sure if it does) put on every Roamio box in bold print that some channels are copyright protected and cannot be streamed.
Why? This isn't the case for everyone. If you have issues with copy protection, you should contact the people who are "protecting" the content.

My Tivo also doesn't make my breakfast. I don't expect Tivo to tell me that.
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