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Old 01-28-2014, 04:12 PM   #1
BP-isMe
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Note New Update ?

I just saw that my Roamio had a Pending Restart. I did the restart and it said it was installing an update.

The version is now 20.3.8.1.RC1-USA-6-846

I had not seen any talk of an update recently so I thought I would post about it.

FYI: I am not a beta tester.

I did think that RC1 in the version seemed interesting...maybe it's been there before and I did not notice.

I have not had time to see what may have changed yet.

Brad
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Old 01-28-2014, 04:24 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by BP-isMe View Post
I just saw that my Roamio had a Pending Restart. I did the restart and it said it was installing an update.

The version is now 20.3.8.1.RC1-USA-6-846

I had not seen any talk of an update recently so I thought I would post about it.

FYI: I am not a beta tester.

I did think that RC1 in the version seemed interesting...maybe it's been there before and I did not notice.

I have not had time to see what may have changed yet.

Brad
Well, my version is 20.3.8-USA-6-846, so looks like there is an update going out.
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:15 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by BP-isMe View Post
I just saw that my Roamio had a Pending Restart. I did the restart and it said it was installing an update.

The version is now 20.3.8.1.RC1-USA-6-846

I had not seen any talk of an update recently so I thought I would post about it.

FYI: I am not a beta tester.

I did think that RC1 in the version seemed interesting...maybe it's been there before and I did not notice.

I have not had time to see what may have changed yet.

Brad
My Roamio Plus is pending restart too. Maybe bug fixes?
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Old 01-28-2014, 07:40 PM   #4
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"RC" usually stands for a Release Candidate and is for field trials only, so this is odd.

Here is the answer:
https://twitter.com/tivodesign/statu...34628630323200
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Old 01-28-2014, 09:34 PM   #5
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Darn, so march/april (at least) for the glitch with overlapping recordings & if-you-pad-a-recording-now-you-get-an-unnamed-recording fixes...
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Old 01-29-2014, 06:50 AM   #6
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Darn, so march/april (at least) for the glitch with overlapping recordings & if-you-pad-a-recording-now-you-get-an-unnamed-recording fixes...
Yeah, this is crazy. I might have no choice but to go through all my passes and stop padding (painful).

You'd think Tivo would at a minimum send out a fix to turn it off. Can't believe we have to go 3-4 months with broken functionality.

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Old 01-29-2014, 06:54 AM   #7
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Darn, so march/april (at least) for the glitch with overlapping recordings & if-you-pad-a-recording-now-you-get-an-unnamed-recording fixes...
My experience has been that if you pad an individual recording you will get the unnamed doubles, however you can pad and/or change the padding of the same shows season pass and not get the unnamed doubles.
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Old 01-29-2014, 07:38 AM   #8
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My experience has been that if you pad an individual recording you will get the unnamed doubles, however you can pad and/or change the padding of the same shows season pass and not get the unnamed doubles.

You still get the overlapping-recordings glitch.
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Old 01-29-2014, 07:52 AM   #9
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You still get the overlapping-recordings glitch.
That is not how it was (is?) working for me, at least the last time I had to change padding which was for The Good Wife and Mentalist on Sunday night. If I changed the actual season pass settings I did not get multiple recordings, if I just changed the padding on a recording then I got the duplicates unnamed recordings. I do have several season passes with padding and I don't get duplicates, will have to change a season pass again and see what happens.
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Old 01-29-2014, 08:00 AM   #10
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Another 3 or 4 months of Netflix causing my TiVo to reboot?!?!?

This is something that was supposed to have been fixed a couple of updates ago and it's still a problem. UGGHH!!!
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:37 AM   #11
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Originally Posted by atmuscarella View Post
That is not how it was (is?) working for me, at least the last time I had to change padding which was for The Good Wife and Mentalist on Sunday night. If I changed the actual season pass settings I did not get multiple recordings, if I just changed the padding on a recording then I got the duplicates unnamed recordings. I do have several season passes with padding and I don't get duplicates, will have to change a season pass again and see what happens.

It has nothing to do with changing padding. It is about back to back recordings on the same channel that overlap and only use one tuner.

Example

Record show on NBC from 7:00-7:30 with one minute of padding at the end
Record show on NBC from 7:30-8:00

This used to require two tuners, but the recent update changed it to using only one tuner. The problem is that there is a small glitch in the second recording at the end of the overlap point. In the above example, that would be at 7:31, one minute into the second recording.
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:43 AM   #12
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It has nothing to do with changing padding. It is about back to back recordings on the same channel that overlap and only use one tuner.

Example

Record show on NBC from 7:00-7:30 with one minute of padding at the end
Record show on NBC from 7:30-8:00

This used to require two tuners, but the recent update changed it to using only one tuner. The problem is that there is a small glitch in the second recording at the end of the overlap point. In the above example, that would be at 7:31, one minute into the second recording.
These are two separate issues.

The first is the back-to-back glitch that uses one tuner.

EDIT: Not only does this bug cause the glitch consistently, but it also in some cases will cause the second/third/etc recording to be skipped entirely with a No Longer in Guide message.


The other is if you manually change the padding of a recording, weird things happen:
http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb...48#post9978548

Two different bugs that Tivo needs to fix.

-Kevin
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:46 AM   #13
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These are two separate issues.
Never said they weren't.
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Old 01-29-2014, 10:01 AM   #14
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Never said they weren't.
Just making sure previous poster understands they are two issues that don't have anything to do with each other.

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Old 01-29-2014, 10:15 AM   #15
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It has nothing to do with changing padding. It is about back to back recordings on the same channel that overlap and only use one tuner.

Example

Record show on NBC from 7:00-7:30 with one minute of padding at the end
Record show on NBC from 7:30-8:00

This used to require two tuners, but the recent update changed it to using only one tuner. The problem is that there is a small glitch in the second recording at the end of the overlap point. In the above example, that would be at 7:31, one minute into the second recording.
I don't know about one minute padding but I pad 60 minute by 1 hour and do the same for the The Good Wife, I never had any padding problems, I get two recordings, one called 60 Minutes the other The Good Wife, although both are on the same CBS HD channel two tuners are used. Your problem may be part of the overlay setting that will cut off up to 5 minutes of the next program, I would turn off auto overlap with your 6 tuner Roamios and the problem should go away.
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:23 AM   #16
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I don't know about one minute padding but I pad 60 minute by 1 hour and do the same for the The Good Wife, I never had any padding problems, I get two recordings, one called 60 Minutes the other The Good Wife, although both are on the same CBS HD channel two tuners are used. Your problem may be part of the overlay setting that will cut off up to 5 minutes of the next program, I would turn off auto overlap with your 6 tuner Roamios and the problem should go away.
I haven't seen these issues at all either, and likewise my overlaps I have are usually 60 minutes or more as well, not the < 5 minute variety.
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Old 01-29-2014, 11:39 AM   #17
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I don't know about one minute padding but I pad 60 minute by 1 hour and do the same for the The Good Wife, I never had any padding problems, I get two recordings, one called 60 Minutes the other The Good Wife, although both are on the same CBS HD channel two tuners are used. Your problem may be part of the overlay setting that will cut off up to 5 minutes of the next program, I would turn off auto overlap with your 6 tuner Roamios and the problem should go away.
This is a well documented problem, reported by numerous people and has absolutely nothing whatever to do with overlap protection.

Unless you have leading padding on "The Good Wife", your recordings do not overlap. "60 Minutes" ends an hour before "The Good Wife" starts, so even with an hour of padding, there is no overlap.

I will give you a valid example.

I had 2 minutes of leading padding and 30 minutes of trailing padding on both "The Simpsons" and "Family Guy" and 2 minutes of leading padding and 60 minutes of trailing padding on "American Dad". The "Family Guy" has a minor "glitch" at the two minute mark. Although "American Dad" was in the "ToDo List", it was not recorded at all, other than the part that was at the end of the "Family Guy" entry. The History indicated that it was no longer in the guide. BTW, I have overlap protection turned off since I hate it.

They implemented this feature in a quick and dirty manner. Of the three ways that I thought of to do it, they chose the absolutely worst way. They also obviously gave insufficient thought to scheduler issues and little if any testing.
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Old 01-29-2014, 09:18 PM   #18
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Fortunately, at least if you have CC on, you USUALLY see the dialogue that you miss in the glitch.. and as previously mentioned, this glitch DOESN'T prevent downloading of shows to a computer.
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Old 01-30-2014, 12:08 AM   #19
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This is a well documented problem, reported by numerous people and has absolutely nothing whatever to do with overlap protection.

Unless you have leading padding on "The Good Wife", your recordings do not overlap. "60 Minutes" ends an hour before "The Good Wife" starts, so even with an hour of padding, there is no overlap.
I can assure you I have no leading padding on the Good Wife, I get both programs each takes up 2 hours, (at one time I was using 1.5 hours of padding) if 60 min starts say 1/2 hour late I will fast fwr the 1/2 hour and watch 60 min, than if I go to the good wife it also starts 1/2 hour late, I also do a lot of 3 minutes extra time on ABC programs and never had any overlap problems, sometimes I will see the start of the next program within that 3 minutes, if I go the 2nd program directly on my TiVo the program starts again from the beginning, so I have two places to see the first one or two minutes of the 2nd show, so the overlap must be working, at least for me, on my Roamio Plus.
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:07 AM   #20
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I can assure you I have no leading padding on the Good Wife, I get both programs each takes up 2 hours, (at one time I was using 1.5 hours of padding) if 60 min starts say 1/2 hour late I will fast fwr the 1/2 hour and watch 60 min, than if I go to the good wife it also starts 1/2 hour late, I also do a lot of 3 minutes extra time on ABC programs and never had any overlap problems, sometimes I will see the start of the next program within that 3 minutes, if I go the 2nd program directly on my TiVo the program starts again from the beginning, so I have two places to see the first one or two minutes of the 2nd show, so the overlap must be working, at least for me, on my Roamio Plus.
If you have no padding on "The Good Wife", then "60 Minutes" doesn't overlap at all. That was my point.

There are 3 distinct problems. only the first of which you might see.

1. For overlapping recordings of consecutive shows on the same channel, there is a small, barely noticeable "glitch" in the second recording at the point where the overlap ends. This may not occur every time. Basically, the TiVo is "splicing" two recordings together and the "splice" may or may not be smooth. At least that is what appears to be happening.

2. If you attempt to change the padding for existing entries for recordings that overlap, it does not change the padding and creates non-recording, unnamed entries in the To Do List.

3. (this is the one you don't understand) If the padding for the first show encompasses the entire time slot of the second show, it will not record the second show. While its is true that if there were no overruns, the recording for the first show will contain the second show, you will not have a separate entry in the NPL for it. If there were overruns, which you expected - otherwise why pad? - you will miss part of the second show. If the recordings only overlap by a few minutes, you will not see this problem. However, if you were to monitor the NPL, you would notice that an entry for the second show does not appear until the first recording ends.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:10 AM   #21
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If you have no padding on "The Good Wife", then "60 Minutes" doesn't overlap at all. That was my point.

There are 3 distinct problems. only the first of which you might see.

1. For overlapping recordings of consecutive shows on the same channel, there is a small, barely noticeable "glitch" in the second recording at the point where the overlap ends. This may not occur every time. Basically, the TiVo is "splicing" two recordings together and the "splice" may or may not be smooth. At least that is what appears to be happening.

2. If you attempt to change the padding for existing entries for recordings that overlap, it does not change the padding and creates non-recording, unnamed entries in the To Do List.

3. (this is the one you don't understand) If the padding for the first show encompasses the entire time slot of the second show, it will not record the second show. While its is true that if there were no overruns, the recording for the first show will contain the second show, you will not have a separate entry in the NPL for it. If there were overruns, which you expected - otherwise why pad? - you will miss part of the second show. If the recordings only overlap by a few minutes, you will not see this problem. However, if you were to monitor the NPL, you would notice that an entry for the second show does not appear until the first recording ends.
I just padded the 6:30 CBS news tonight by 15 minutes and than set up a recording for Extra that follows the CBS news, I will see what happens as I don't care about the show Extra.
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Old 01-30-2014, 10:47 AM   #22
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I just padded the 6:30 CBS news tonight by 15 minutes and than set up a recording for Extra that follows the CBS news, I will see what happens as I don't care about the show Extra.
If you're trying to create the conditions that result in problem #3, you should have padded it by 30 minutes.
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Old 01-30-2014, 01:08 PM   #23
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I just padded the 6:30 CBS news tonight by 15 minutes and than set up a recording for Extra that follows the CBS news, I will see what happens as I don't care about the show Extra.
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Originally Posted by lpwcomp View Post
If you're trying to create the conditions that result in problem #3, you should have padded it by 30 minutes.
And if you're trying to see the glitch in #1, you only need to pad by one minute and then watch for the glitch in the first minute of Extra. The way you have it, the glitch will appear around the 15 minute mark of Extra.
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Old 01-30-2014, 03:51 PM   #24
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For an example of the "glitch" we are referring to, see this video, starting at @1m27s.

It's actually worse here than it is on the TiVo. Not sure why it is that far in but that is the point at which the recording of the preceding show ends. Possibly another artifact of the feature. The source is a recording of last night's "Revolution". It was scheduled for an hour and my SP has 1 minute of padding at each end but the TiVo reports it as 1h3m long rather than the expected 1h2m.

No trailing padding on the preceding recording (supposed to be "Jeopardy", but was actually weather coverage)
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Old 01-30-2014, 04:59 PM   #25
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For #1, the glitch is much worse when the stream is H.264

All my H.264 channels are copy once so I cannot provide an example.
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Old 01-30-2014, 05:54 PM   #26
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If you have no padding on "The Good Wife", then "60 Minutes" doesn't overlap at all. That was my point.

There are 3 distinct problems. only the first of which you might see.

1. For overlapping recordings of consecutive shows on the same channel, there is a small, barely noticeable "glitch" in the second recording at the point where the overlap ends. This may not occur every time. Basically, the TiVo is "splicing" two recordings together and the "splice" may or may not be smooth. At least that is what appears to be happening.

2. If you attempt to change the padding for existing entries for recordings that overlap, it does not change the padding and creates non-recording, unnamed entries in the To Do List.

3. (this is the one you don't understand) If the padding for the first show encompasses the entire time slot of the second show, it will not record the second show. While its is true that if there were no overruns, the recording for the first show will contain the second show, you will not have a separate entry in the NPL for it. If there were overruns, which you expected - otherwise why pad? - you will miss part of the second show. If the recordings only overlap by a few minutes, you will not see this problem. However, if you were to monitor the NPL, you would notice that an entry for the second show does not appear until the first recording ends.
For #3, it is not required to have the padding of first show encompass the whole second show. I had the issue happen to me multiple times with 5 minutes padding on an hour show. It does not happen every time, sometimes it does record and sometimes it does not, and when it does not, it always says "no longer in guide" in History. It is possible that if padding covers all of second show, it increases probability of this happening (or makes it happen always), but is not required.
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Old 01-30-2014, 06:34 PM   #27
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3. (this is the one you don't understand) If the padding for the first show encompasses the entire time slot of the second show, it will not record the second show. While its is true that if there were no overruns, the recording for the first show will contain the second show, you will not have a separate entry in the NPL for it. If there were overruns, which you expected - otherwise why pad? - you will miss part of the second show. If the recordings only overlap by a few minutes, you will not see this problem. However, if you were to monitor the NPL, you would notice that an entry for the second show does not appear until the first recording ends.
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For #3, it is not required to have the padding of first show encompass the whole second show. I had the issue happen to me multiple times with 5 minutes padding on an hour show. It does not happen every time, sometimes it does record and sometimes it does not, and when it does not, it always says "no longer in guide" in History. It is possible that if padding covers all of second show, it increases probability of this happening (or makes it happen always), but is not required.
In my case, I don't have missed recordings because of the partial overlap. I do have the occasional missed recordings (V53 I think, which is BS but still happens), and it is occasionally an overlap, but that's coincidence.

However, if I overlap 100%, I have a 100% failure rate. That's cause & effect. I fixed this by changing my padding on the offending shows. I now crazy pad the last show of the night, not the first.
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Old 01-30-2014, 06:41 PM   #28
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For #3, it is not required to have the padding of first show encompass the whole second show. I had the issue happen to me multiple times with 5 minutes padding on an hour show. It does not happen every time, sometimes it does record and sometimes it does not, and when it does not, it always says "no longer in guide" in History. It is possible that if padding covers all of second show, it increases probability of this happening (or makes it happen always), but is not required.
Ah. Did not know that. Most of the time, I have an overlap of only 2 mins. 1 min of end padding + 1 minute of beginning padding. Sunday night is unusual because of long sports (mostly football) overruns.

Sorta blows my (undisclosed) theory of what is causing it out of the water.
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Old 01-31-2014, 10:28 AM   #29
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Hmm, I saw the Twitter post ( https://twitter.com/tivodesign/statu...34628630323200 ) but did anyone ever get any details about what this was for?
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Old 02-02-2014, 07:49 PM   #30
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And Tivo denied there was a problem to me

When this first started happening, I called Tivo & they tried to have me go through a bunch of nonsense (rebooting, unplugging, deleting season passes, etc). I have 2 Tivos & they were both having the padding problems so obviously this was a Tivo software problem. I had to contact them 3 times before I asked to talk with a programmer who, after repeated questioning, finally admitted it was a software problem and that it was affecting many other Tivo owners. I've had Tivo since 1999 and don't like how long they are taking to fix something they broke in 30 seconds with the last "update". I also don't like getting the run around from customer service either covering up or just not informed.
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